HD DVD - Blue Ray

[CaRJoE0220]

I'm stuck, I cant decide if i want to buy the X-Box 360 Hd Dvd player and start building a HD dvd collection or not. It seems there is now way to know which of the 2 new dvd formats will take over and i dont want to be out all that money if HD DVD fails and Blue Ray is widely used. HELP!!!

[rxrep]

I'm stuck, I cant decide if i want to buy the X-Box 360 Hd Dvd player and start building a HD dvd collection or not. It seems there is now way to know which of the 2 new dvd formats will take over and i dont want to be out all that money if HD DVD fails and Blue Ray is widely used. HELP!!!

Does your TV handle 1080p? If not, it won't matter much anyhow as that is where you will really get the benefits of either.
With that said, I have HD DVD on xbox 360 and it is incredible. It came with King Kong HD DVD, and I couldn't believe the difference. My Netflix que is now all HD DVD for any movies that can be in that format. Just watched "The Deer Hunter" in HD and all I can say is "WOW" (and the fact that I kept waiting for Christopher Walken to say he needed more cowbell). I came from an Oppo upconverting DVD player that is supposed to be one of the best pictures out there (in 1080i), via a 102" fixed-screen HD projector. I can accept a 1080p input, however the projector I have can't produce a 1080p image so it converts to the best it can between 720p and 1080i. Even so, the picture difference is amazing (using the xbox VGA cable; the regular cable that comes with xbox doesn't put out nearly as good of graphics). It is not as noticable as going from say VHS to DVD, but it is noticable enough to warrant my wanting to see everything in HD DVD whenever possible.
I've seen blu-ray and HD DVD side-by-side through identical 1080p TV's at a high-end home theatre store, and the HD DVD was more clear for how they had it set up. Same movie and all, but of course sometimes you wonder if the store is biased and not setting both up correctly to give one format an unfair advantage. There are reports all over the web of stores being in the "back pocket" of each format and trying to make one look far superior.
For instance, I was picking the guy's brain at BB (and never told him I had HD DVD); and he trashed HD DVD and claimed blu-ray was far superior. However, when pressed, he'd never actually seen HD DVD via a 1080p set and was only going by the propaganda he was told in training. When I tried to go in depth about frame rate of film, what interlaced vs. progressive scan really is, how disc size and other "features" of blu-ray really mean nothing until technology catches up, he had no idea..... he just repeats the info he's taught and the average consumer buys in to it because they don't know any better.
The "hype" claims blu-ray is the way to go, but Sony's track record of proprietary formats isn't that great. PS3 will help, but still, to buy a blu-ray player otherwise is way more expensive than HD DVD.
My only direct side-by-side comparison showed HD DVD picture to be more clear and vivid. Couple the media capabilities of my xbox linked to my home PC, and HD DVD via xbox 360 was the way I went. Cross my fingers that the format hangs on.

[Anthony]

I believe Blu-ray will fail, but that's just my feeling. I've been through several format wars, and worked for Good Guys the better part of my late teens and early 20's. From what I've seen, read, and heard the TV/viewing technology will need to catch up to the super high quality of these two new media storage/playback devices before we'll see a real difference in quality between the two (as rxrep stated above).

So I'm all for HD DVD at the moment.

[CaRJoE0220]

wow rxrep thanks for the info. I have a 42inch plasma with 720p and 1080i. I didnt see a point in paying near double for the few choices out there for 1080p. I figure by the time 1080p is the way to go they will be down in price and i can afford one easier when it does go down. But i have a 360 and i think the picture for gaming is great right now. I have it set at 720p (thats better then 1080i right?) but i was still going to upgrade cables. Now i was thinking about These Cables, are these the cables you were talking about for the 360?

[dukez]

Even though the format war thing just started, right now HD-DVD is winning in terms of cost and content. We should see what direction the teeter totter swings this new year (2007). Still, I wouldn't start any exclusive collection yet though.

[rxrep]

Now i was thinking about These Cables, are these the cables you were talking about for the 360?

Don't get fooled by the "Monster Cable" hype. Bunch of BS and you don't need monster cables. Way overpriced and not gonna make a noticable difference.
You should have gotten component cables with the 360 premium system already. No different than the ones you linked to on eBay. So, no, don't upgrade to what essentially is what you already have (if you bought the premium system). The only thing you need with that is a toslink optical audio cable (if your stereo can accept that type of input). That's how you get the real true Dolby sound. And that doesn't come with the xbox and must be purchased separately. But if you're only using the stereo (red/white) RCA outs of the xbox then you're not getting true surround sound.
The cable I'm talking about is "VGA", which has pins on the other end like what plugs in to a computer/laptop. It allows the full 1080p signal to be used (whereas component will only allow 1080i/720p and not have the ability for the 1080p).
The only problem for most is that a good portion of TV's out there don't have a VGA input. But a good portion of TV's out there won't take a 1080p signal yet, anyhow, so it's a moot point. That is one advantage to me of PS3; it has HDMI output (which is common now), whereas the xbox needs a cable that most TV's don't accept (although true 1080p TV's should). The VGA cable, even on my TV that isn't 1080p, increased graphics considerably on my projector. Some games that might, via the component cable, have had fuzz in spots or skipped a little or had a little blip (all when the action was going nuts; not normal game play), do not have any problems with the VGA cable. So the VGA cable does help even if you're not in 1080p.
As for what is better on the 720p or 1080i; it depends. Some movies look better in 1080i, while most of the games are more clear in 720p because of all the action involved. I have my projector able to flip between the two as needed to judge, because I've even found some games better in 1080i than 720p. It all depends.
All HD broadcast signal (like from cable or satellite) is going to be 720p. At least for now. Even if your screen says 1080i on a cable TV program, the signal it's getting is 720p and the TV is converting it.

[CaRJoE0220]

yeah i bought the digital optical cable and the sound is real nice with my new sound system. but my tv is only 720p or 1080i so the standard premium system conponent cables that i got with my system should be good enough i guess. Thanks.

PS: I didnt go for 2080p because like u said the 360 just got 1080p but all tv is in 720p or 1080i and by the time its time to buy a 1080p they will be the price as the current 1080p so no point in paying double

[k0mpresd]

i bought the Hd player for the 360 and movie quality is amazing

[CaRJoE0220]

i bought the bd player for the 360 and movie quality is amazing

bd?

[moses0324]

i would wait for a winner then go buy....no sense in gambling with which player will win, especially at a $1000 price tag.

[CaRJoE0220]

good article by the way. Good facts and it makes me think getting my hd dvd player for the 360 wont be a bad investment

[k0mpresd]

bd?

hd

typo @ work not paying attention :p

[k0mpresd]

i would wait for a winner then go buy....no sense in gambling with which player will win, especially at a $1000 price tag.

$1k?

i dont think so

the 360 hd player is $200

i paid $213 w/ tax, it came w/ a free movie, and it is a toshiba-samsung drive so i know itll be good to me :)

[CaRJoE0220]

hd typo @ work not paying attention :p

Oh haha i was thinking Bp was a brand or something and i was going to say i thought microsoft was the only option

$1k?
i dont think so
the 360 hd player is $200
i paid $213 w/ tax, it came w/ a free movie, and it is a toshiba-samsung drive so i know itll be good to me :)

Have u checked prices on ones if u dont buy a ps3 or the 360 then 360 hd player. They are pretty expensive. I am going to wait untill i get my next rewards 10% off at target then use my discount and get 2 10% offs and save some money on that thing

[k0mpresd]

im sure youve seen the backuphddvd post on doom9 already?

[CaRJoE0220]

i havent seen this

[k0mpresd]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=119871

[quattro_maniac]

$1k?

i dont think so

the 360 hd player is $200

i paid $213 w/ tax, it came w/ a free movie, and it is a toshiba-samsung drive so i know itll be good to me :)

get with it man, he's talking about the blu-ray...

[k0mpresd]

....no sense in gambling with which player will win, especially at a $1000 price tag.

get with it man, he's talking about the blu-ray...

no he isnt

he is referring to both

"gambling" involves more than one choice/result...otherwise it wouldnt be gambling

they are both equally expensive

[rxrep]

they are both equally expensive

No HD DVD in most cases is much cheaper than Blu Ray (when looking at stand-alone players). HD DVD discs are cheaper, too, and don't scratch as easily. In fact, one of the few cases where HD DVD player is more expensive IS when bought with the xbox. Reason being, the PS3 comes with a blu-ray, but to get the HD DVD for the xbox you have spend the extra $200 on top of the base unit.

[quattro_maniac]

they are both equally expensive

did you even GLANCE at the article?
theres no way in hell you're convincing me that a ~$350+ HD-DVD is the same as ~$700+ for BR...
Blu-ray will die by the end of next year.

[k0mpresd]

you people are a bunch of fucking idiots

i got jumped for saying hd is cheaper because i only paid $200 for my 360 hd player

then i get jumped for saying theyre both expensive



and i agree...i think hd will be the way to go..even though bluray has more movies id be likely to buy..thats assuming id actually buy a dvd (haha..thats funny..thatd be like me buying a 360 game)...backuphddvd + burner not on the market yet + discs not on the market yet = no buying movies

[Imperial]

well, I guess you'll be able to go for both soon....


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6230925.stm

[CaRJoE0220]

I was just going to ask, how long until someone just makes a DVD player to play both. I didn't read the whole article but is there a pricing on there? oh wait just saw no price has been listed yet

[churcH]

betamax ftw

[k0mpresd]

I was just going to ask, how long until someone just makes a DVD player to play both. I didn't read the whole article but is there a pricing on there? oh wait just saw no price has been listed yet

there are several multi-format players out already

[murph013]

A few things are going to be covered at CES, including yet another HD format disc (from Warner Bros, I believe) that will be compatible with both HD DVD players and Blu-Ray players, plus the aforementioned hybrid players.

[Mike@Startup]

I have the Xbox 360 HD-DVD, and to say it's awesome, is an understatement!

The picture & sound are second to none! You have to got to see it to believe it!
I have a THX Ultra II 7.1 receiver, and a 56in 1080i TV. My Netflix que is all HD now.

It's at the point, I don't want to watch regular TV anymore, my 700+ DVD collection just don't cut it anymore! I even have a high end up-converting DVD player, and it's no where close.

My thoughts, is if you have a 360, and like movies, GET THE HD-DVD! It's the BEST $200 you can spend!

[CaRJoE0220]

Its decided next time i get my target rewards for an addition 10% off i will go. That combined with the fact my mom gets another 10% off at Target would put it at 162 before tax. HD DVD FTW!!!!! :-)

[k0mpresd]

the first pc hd dvd burner was shown @ ces

1x ftw

[Entertainment72]

HD-DVD can store as much as 30 gigabytes of data while a Blu-Ray disc can pack in a whopping 50 gigabytes...

Regular DVD 15 gigs..

More space = More information = better picture = better sound = HD DVD will die.. :-)

The Blue laser uses a shorter wavelength then the red laser; 405nm as compared to 650nm. CDs use a 780nm wavelength.

The smaller wavelength allows more data to be stored in the same amount of space. This is due to the smaller ‘spot size’ that is achievable by using the blue laser. The focus of a laser is limited by the amount of diffraction. Diffraction is the bending and spreading of waves, light waves in this case, when it meets an obstruction.

In the case of laser technology however, that light will naturally begin to spread the further it gets from the laser itself (you can see an example of this simply with a torch shining against a wall, the further away from the wall, the more the light spreads.) This is where other factors must be introduced to help focus the laser. Those used in BD technology include an increased numerical aperture than ones used previously (0.85 as compared to 0.6 used for DVDs), a higher quality dual-lens system, and using a thinner cover layer on the disc to reduce optical effects.




My PS3 blue-ray on my 1080p is just unbelivable!

[CaRJoE0220]

well, I guess you'll be able to go for both soon....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6230925.stm

News this morning showed the LG duel format Hd and Blue ray player. Price will be $1,199. Thats some money but they will drop fast once more company's make them.

[CaRJoE0220]

So are all the people who are using there hd dvd or blue ray all doing this on 1080p tv's? I want to get the microsoft hd player but i have a 720p/1080i plasma. Will i still see a increase in quality with the hd dvd player + Hd movie over playing a regular dvd through my 360?

[Entertainment72]

So are all the people who are using there hd dvd or blue ray all doing this on 1080p tv's? I want to get the microsoft hd player but i have a 720p/1080i plasma. Will i still see a increase in quality with the hd dvd player + Hd movie over playing a regular dvd through my 360?

yes sony xbr 1080p

[rxrep]

So are all the people who are using there hd dvd or blue ray all doing this on 1080p tv's? I want to get the microsoft hd player but i have a 720p/1080i plasma. Will i still see a increase in quality with the hd dvd player + Hd movie over playing a regular dvd through my 360?

You will if you are able to use the VGA cable that is an option with 360. With component cables, not so much.
Quite honestly, I'd bet 90% of the people could not tell difference between 1080i and 1080p unless the room was pure black and the screen was larger than 100".
I used an upconverting DVD player prior to getting HD DVD and it made a noticable difference from regular DVD to upconverted DVD DVD on 102" in 1080i. When I went to HD DVD, it was much less of a difference. Not as drastic as say VHS to DVD, but noticable.
You won't cure cancer by going from 720p up. It isn't THAT big of a difference to the human eye without the other variable listed (black room and extremely large screen). Everyone hypes it, and yes, it is really cool, but it's not like going from VHS to DVD was. And still, all HD broadcasts and 99% of the games on both platforms are in 720p. Because 720p is clear and going above that is splitting hairs and really now just a cockfight to be able to say "I'm in 1080p".
Also, entertainment72, more space means nothing if the technology of the film placed on the disc is no where near enough to fill up even an HD DVD yet. That is positive hype spread by Sony. I'll be the devil's advocate and give negative hype easily found on forums: Blu Ray discs put the info very close to the surface of the disc and the discs therfore are scratched and destroyed very easily. But, sticking with your point, name one film/video that needs that much space? Name one technology out there that would need it within a few year's time?
My buddy's reportedly got a big dick but he's ugly as sin so he really doesn't get a chance to use it to it's full potential... lol.
Same thing. Right now it's a waste to have it.
As mentioned in another thread on this forum, I've had both PS3 and 360 connected to my stuff. My buddy got PS3 and wanted to "show it off" and see what it looked like on a big screen. I won't go in to games, because that is on the other thread, but movies on the HD DVD from xbox 360 were more clear and crisp. Side by side, we didn't have any of the same titles to compare to, sadly, but the movie he'd put in was like "Wow" and then we'd switch to a different movie on the 360, and we'd both noticed differences. Minute, yes, but they were there. It was just "deeper"; the movies in HD DVD had more depth to them somehow.
Bottom line is, they both are beautiful pictures. Saying one is better than the other simply because of "potential" that isn't even projected to be needed for another few years.... by then (and it's already happening) who's to say Hd DVD won't have that much storage capacity, too? They only put on the damn things what they'd need for the formats that are out now.

[k0mpresd]

there were mentions of hd dvd being able to up the capacity to 17gb per layer and make a 3 layer disc

51gb

[Mike@Startup]

RXrep well said!
Yes, there is not much of a difference between 720p & 1080i.
Most of us don't even have 1080p TV's. They really have only been widely available for around a year.

There is a big difference between 420p & 720p, after that it's really just bragging rights.
I have everything set up for 1080i, but my DVD player is set to 720p, as that seams to look the best. The HD-DVD is set to 1080i.

IMHO, Going from DVD to HD-DVD is HUGE! I totally noticed it. You all don't mention the sound difference! HD sound so much better, of course I have a THX Ultra II 7.1 receiver.

About Blue ray, it's slower then HD, it's more expensive, it's proprietary, the only real plus is the capacity. So far no movie is using more then half.

I'm very, very happy with HD, the capacity will go up. Even CD's went up in capacity over the years, as did DVD. IMHO, that's a dumb reason not to like the format.

[CaRJoE0220]

What is this vga cable for the 360? Right now i the cables provided with the premium system which is HD Component cables. Then i have digital optical cable pluged into the 360 and going to my receiver for sound. Is that good or is there a way to enhance it even more. I also have it set to 720p, is that better to have it at then 1080i?

[dukez]

It's at the point, I don't want to watch regular TV anymore

HDTV is broadcasted in the same quality.

[rxrep]

What is this vga cable for the 360? Right now i the cables provided with the premium system which is HD Component cables. Then i have digital optical cable pluged into the 360 and going to my receiver for sound. Is that good or is there a way to enhance it even more. I also have it set to 720p, is that better to have it at then 1080i?

I'll try to answer.
Some things on my screen look better in 720P and some 1080i. Before I got the VGA cable, I had mine set up to flip between the two so I can test against the other. Some games look way better in 720p because either they were made in that format or the action is so fast that interlaced can't keep up but progressive scan can.
However, with VGA, you aren't picking between 720p or 1080i or 1080p, per say, your choices are now in formats like your CPU. Stuff like 1360X780 or stuff like that. Can't remember the exact numbers.... but it's like choosing aspect ratio of width and height. I just know mine is on the highest setting, which essentialy is 1080p with the most pixels transmitted in both width and height.
Don't get fooled by the numbers. 1080 is not "better" than 720 just because it's a higher number. Do some research on interlaced (the "i") or progressive scan (the "p"). And then also find through research that 1080i and 1080p are truly splitting hairs in this day and age because the human eye can't notice much difference in most formats out today. A few years from now maybe, but not yet.
Getting back on topic, most of my movies without action sequences look better in 1080i over 720p. But even then, there are exceptions. Action sequences seem to "skip" or get "blurry" for nanoseconds here and there when there are a lot of black hue in the images or the action is very fast with lots of explosions. So they usually run better in 720p. With the VGA cable, however, it's all moot because I don't see any imperfections regardless of the equivalent setting (again, the VGA sets up in aspect ratios, not 720p/1080i/p settings).
The VGA cable audio output will be the same you are using now, which is a toslink optical audio. The sound will be better on an HD DVD because it has better formats to use 6.1 and 7.1 surround than a regular DVD does; the cable used will be the same for audio.
The graphics will be better on a VGA cable in games and movies because:
1. xbox 360 won't output a 1080p signal with anything but the VGA cable. Consider it to be the 360's "HDMI" equivalent. The component cable that comes with the premium 360 isn't able to transmit the 1080p signal.
2. The VGA cable transmits the graphics faster. Even your 720p games will have better graphics, even if your TV only handles 720p or 1080i.

The downside is that most TV's don't have a VGA input on the back of them. Sometimes it is called something other than VGA, though, so don't be fooled (can't remember what else it's called). It's the same thing. It looks like a serial connector on the back of your computer.