My Humble 1.8T Build - The Grumblings of BAT

[A4SoftWalker]

Trolls, negatives, ne'er do wells, and bickering is highly discouraged on this thread.
This is a POSITIVE can do thread zone...

Its about time...

I have always wanted my car to be faster.
I've tuned and wrenched, bought and stored parts in see thru bins, read on AZ/ online/ books about vw watercooled engine building/ you name it FOR YEARS.
Now after 12 years of ownership the 2nd shoe has dropped.

I know I could have gone 1.9, or 2.0, or 2.1, or ... WHATEVER.
I decided to stick with a stronger motor with stock displacement for California smogability and ease of sourcing parts such as head gaskets (any dealer), high revs, and longevity.

My motor has been built to rev comfortably to 8000 and beyond.
I will most likely keep my rev limit at 7500.
Anyone that has dived into an engine building book knows that a stroker places a higher sideloading on its pistons. A wider bore causes cylinder walls between the pistons to be wafer thin and changes the harmonics of the block to the extent of needing different knock sensors. I know I might have to deal with some effects of my lighter components changing the block harmonics but so far so good. I wanted to avoid all that. When I took my motor apart it was virtually perfect after 125k.
No weird lopsided wear on the piston walls or burning of oil.
I wanted to have this type of durability BUT with stronger parts - much stronger parts.

More to come... Stay tuned to this thread. I will be updating frequently!

[A4SoftWalker]

Parts list here: Here is what I remember from 6+years of parts gathering.

• Eurospec forged crank 12.5 kg – 5lbs lighter than stock – spun balanced for smoothness
• IE forged rods – end balanced rifle drilled for improved lubrication to main bearings 1g difference btw heaviest and lightest. 4340 Chrome Moly Steel.
• JE forged pistons oem CR 9.25 heat resistant top (gold) and slip side (black) coatings
• ARP rod bolts, mains bolts, head bolts, crankshaft bolt, camshaft bolts, flywheel bolts, clutch pressure plate bolts, fluid damper bolts
• Carrico bearings for pistons and OEM for crank yeah I know should have went with coated but failures here are rare and due to lack of maintenance.
• Forged main caps – line bore was required. USA 4140 alloy steel assists in providing extreme rigidity to the main bearing and crankshaft.
• Thrust washers - OEM
• Spec stage 3+ flywheel 16lb lighter – spun balanced with clutch plate assembly for a smooth launch and break-in experience.
• EKagrip flywheel/crankshaft friction shim disc
• Audi metal clutch slave conversion & stainless steel clutch line.
• Fluidamper pulley
• All new engine sensors throughout
• Head ported and polished 5 angle valve work – 1mm over valve in/out openings, intake ported for AEB manifold
• Ferrea valves and high-rate springs
• Autotech intake cam. Yeah I know it’s a mild 195 deg cam. Lift: 7.85mm (0.309) Duration: 195 at 0.050 lift. The IE cams launched with a huge success but I bought it years ago on a memorial day sale. I have to draw the line somewhere for how much to spend and how fast I really want to go. OEM exhaust cam. I looked everywhere and at everything from Schrick, to a British company I forget at this point, to the Eurospec stuff, to the Cat cams AND I just want a fast 1.8t; I don't want to race or compete against anyone - I just want a car that is rapid and stealthy. Sort of like my 360+hp V70R.
• New oil pump tensioner and chain
• New VVT solenoid actuator and cam chain
• IE dowel pin timing gear/sprocket kit (broke drill bit included with kit and 2 more drilling the crankshaft end). Shows the age of my build as IE now offers a press-fit billet solution with 2.0FSI 6 bolt Fluidamper solution to keyway shearing.






Prepped Block



Underside of block being disassembled with OEM crank bushings.


Assembled Lower Block and Portion of the Cylinder Head with Ferrea Valvetrain



ARP bolts on rods and forged main bearing caps.



Ring Specs



Forged Main Bearing Caps



JE 2618 Forged Al - T6 High Tensile Strength Coated Dome and Skirts



















OTHER MODS:
Apikol>Snub/Diff S4 mounts;APR>ExhTIP-TB hoses;AWE>DV;JHM>ShortShift-the works
Misc>Wheels 18x8x9 235/265;HSport>S4 bars;TT225;BoschF6DTC;
Carbonio>V2+V6Intake;HFC;Podi>P2;ATP>mani;GPop>K04
STaSIS>328/305mm,40/60,SL

[A4SoftWalker]

Tuning here:::

Motoza is my tuner of choice.
1000cc EV14 injectors
3bar MAP sensor
3-inch billet MAF
3-inch TIP
NGK Iridiums BKR7EIX-11 gapped to .028
TFSI coils

[A4SoftWalker]

Dyno Runs here

[A4SoftWalker]

Driving experiences - living with the muzzled beast here

21 May 2015: First Start up - ALIVE after surgery. After putting the motor together and in the car I lost one weekend thinking I had a no start situation. A bright idea to look at the sparkplugs revealed... wait for it... no plugs. Yep after all that wrenching your's truely forgot to put in plugs after cranking the car to get the fluids circulating. . Car started up like it did just before I pulled the motor - just as if I had stopped over at a 7-11 and picked something up real quick. 2 or 3 turns with the starter and she's up and running.

22-27 May 2015: Car had an oil leak from the lower front freeze plug I replaced with a threaded version . Plugged that one then it went up to the 2nd freeze plug... I had decided to replace the freeze plugs to avoid the sudden failure that JetJockey experienced on the track. Tracked down and fixed a couple of water leaks. Topped off water and went for the first ride. There is one thing I noticed... well several things.
1) This car was SMOOTH - no harsh vibrations or noises. No power because the rings had not set yet but I could feel the potential.
2) Spin balancing the clutch/flywheel and crankshaft yielded really smooth clutch engagement. Unlike my 1st experience with my Spec clutch the whole car juddered and shook when the clutch was engaged for over 2500mi. Too bad my AC is not working I cannot report on any the gearbox rattle during idle yet.
3) Revving into the area above 3k was sneaky smooth and the motor seemed to want more... Not yet... Patience. Then I noticed the engine temps were increasing FAST. Looked under the hood and saw the coolant had bled into the heater leaving the coolant overflow tank below minimum. Good thing I was rolling with a full toolbox and extra coolant, oil, ... etc. Topped up and temps dropped again just as quickly as they had risen.
4) The car was burning oil. My friend driving behind be reported a constant blue smokey oil burn for the 1st 5-7mi. I was happy. Happy? Yes because it meant I was not burning water lol so no headgasket install errors. Then all of a sudden the oil burning stopped and the rings on the pistons set into their duties of doing what they were meant to do - sealing the combustion chamber.
5) I also noticed with all of the lightened parts the car required more revs to start from a stop smoothly. But once started it revs with urgency headed for the redline unless coralled and calmed. In addition when the car is started the reduced mass is barely enough to "catch" the idle speed. So I give a quick tap of the gas pedal to help it catch on, start breathing and warming up.
6) I knew this before from my research the JE pistons require a warm motor for proper operation. This is why they have the valve reliefs cut into their faces to allow room for expansion. Failure to allow the motor to warm up will be a lesson in car abuse as it will let you know with diesel-like clattering. Lesson learned - get used to a proper warm up. Other pistons are available from Mahle or Supertech using less strong 4032 vs the 2816 alloy that JE uses. They have less expansion as a result.

[A4SoftWalker]

Shout outs, motivation, and appreciation here: I will be adding people (peeps) and shops(online/local) here as I remember them in no particular order of importance.

Fellow AZ'ers:
400HPA4 - Greg
M-Hood AKA mike-2ptzero
AudiA4_20T - Clint
AudiA4Turbo22
7speed
old guy
diagnosticator
Audi Skate Snow
nein-reis
CyberPMG
[email protected]
vinny.dtw
kneel
MikTip
Jet Jockey
bische
manhertm
B6Lovin - Dan
A4 TSCHUSS
dougyfresh
A4ringedONE8T
Dan[FN]6262
viceprp
jalcom1
A4 Moda
sean1.8t




Shops:
Integrated Engineering - rods/pistons, cylinder head guides/seals and numerous bits odds and ends.
Stasis - suspension and brakes
Hotchkis - sway bars
USP - metal body clutch slave with stainless steel line
JHM - complete shortshift kit
Carbotech - bobcat brakepads
MJM Autohaus - got lots of parts here.
Eurospec - crankshaft

[AudiA4_20T]

how many cobwebs are in that motor?

[A4SoftWalker]

how many cobwebs are in that motor?

Haha Clint I lost count.
Cobwebs and dust... mouse droppings...
But they are all gone now.
Washed away with the first Amsoil break-in oil change.

She's alive with 500+mi on her now. Going on 3rd oil change.

Cobwebs are gathering on the 2 huge turbos I have staring at me on my dresser top every night as I sleep. lol

[Audi body]

Nice set up! Keep it up! I also have the auto tech intake cam with autotech adjustable cam gear! Motor is getting dropped in this July 4th weekend! Can't wait

[A4SoftWalker]

Nice set up! Keep it up! I also have the auto tech intake cam with autotech adjustable cam gear! Motor is getting dropped in this July 4th weekend! Can't wait

Thanks a lot! I'm looking forward to see what the Autotech cam can do with a built motor and BT/BAT.
Good luck with your install. Are you using break-in oil as well? And are you prepared for the smoke-fest as the rings set?

[Seerlah]

Running a Eurospec crank...you are a brave man!

[A4SoftWalker]

Running a Eurospec crank...you are a brave man!

Yep EUROSPEC!!!
I have seen the failures and the successes with this crank.
I have not seen anyone spin balance the crank.
If I am the guinea pig (and I highly doubt it). Lets see what happens.
Eurospec has been in business since I bought my car 12 years ago.
They are still in business for a reason - I think?
I'll rock it and be the first to admit it fails IF and WHEN it does.

Till then I'm building another motor on the side for that eventuality and backup transportation is ready. lol...

^^^Added photo of eurospec forged crank to build parts list up above.^^^

[Seerlah]

Till then I'm building another motor on the side for that eventuality and backup transportation is ready. lol...

lol

Could have also done something like sourced a crank for cheap (ie i have an FSI crank laying around I was able to scoop for $150 shipped) and had it sent to a company like SCCH to have knife edged. I may go this same route, later on.

[Turbavanttro]

Nice build! Sounds like a well thought out project. If you have the ES crank properly balanced you'll be good to go. IIRC that was the issue with that crank. FWIW I sourced a brand new FSI crank that had been knife-edged and balanced for $450.

What turbo/manifold/injector/fueling/clutch did you decide on?

[A4SoftWalker]

lol

Could have also done something like sourced a crank for cheap (ie i have an FSI crank laying around I was able to scoop for $150 shipped) and had it sent to a company like SCCH to have knife edged. I may go this same route, later on.

... AND there are a million things that you can do in the city?

There are so many ways to build a motor. Different parts for rods/pistons/exhaust-intake headers/spark-plugs/.../...etc. I too considered all that crankshaft knife-edging and larger pistons and stroking... I have a simple build philosophy - Its been said on here several times in the past and as I struggled to focus my build always pulls me back down to earth : Do Not Over Mod Your Ride.

Too late for me to change step mid-song. My motor is bolted together already.

^^^Added pictures of my built motor above.^^^
All that is left is the addition of a 3-inch dp, a catchcan, a turbo, and a tune.

Any softness/flexing/vibration of my crank will be subdued by my forged main caps backed by ARP bolts.
Its all a matter of the whole being more than the sum of the individual parts.

Like in carpentry measure twice or thrice to cut once.
I'm gonna take my time to break-in my motor but I'm not 2nd guessing myself in the least.
320-400AWHP is my goal.
Too much to ask?
Maybe or maybe not.
I did call this a "humble build" afterall.

[A4SoftWalker]

Nice build! Sounds like a well thought out project. If you have the ES crank properly balanced you'll be good to go. IIRC that was the issue with that crank. FWIW I sourced a brand new FSI crank that had been knife-edged and balanced for $450.

What turbo/manifold/injector/fueling/clutch did you decide on?

Thanks Turbavantro. I really appreciate the comments and the ES feedback was what I imagined. Just buying a crank and flywheel and throwing them in your car is not the way to go.

You're really lucky to find that FSI crank. Did the knife-edged crank come with papers?
I would still balance it.
I know my Eurospec crank took quite a bit of correction to balance it properly.

Same with my Spec stg3+ flywheel-clutch. First time I had it bolted on it shook and vibrated. The tuning shop I worked with said it just needed to be broken in. Took over 5000mi to really smooth out and for me not to stall the car every day took about a month.

This time around I have the SAME new Spec stg3+clutch & pressure plate same billet flywheel. I took the pressure plate & flywheel to a shop that does spin balancing and resurfacing/refinishing of flywheels. The smoothness is unbelievable for a clutch that is not yet completely broken in. I do have the Fluidamper and the balanced crankshaft - NOT EVEN 600mi on the clutch yet and only stalled a handful of times and feel is getting much better.

Turbos. Well I have 2 of them.
1) A Garrett eliminator of sorts.
2) BW EFR 3076 equivalent single-scroll.

Exhaust manifold is ATP from them direct. JetHot coated.
Fuel is Bosch 040 or 044 cant remember with upgraded fuel line to the engine compartment. Modified fuel filter to accept larger fuel line with threaded fittings.
Injectors will change but for now I have 550s. Might go with a 630 or 750cc. Mine came with the turbo.

[A4SoftWalker]

A few crankshaft comparison shots for curious people: Notice that the crankshaft is from 1/2 -2/3 the thickness of OEM. This is where my 5 lb weight loss comes from. The engineering design is sound. The manufacturing should be up to par and I had an expert magnaflux and spin balance my crank. Yes I did mention I wanted to spin to 8000-8500 rpm.







Installed in engine block with OEM main caps vs forged: (You can see in the right hand side of the photo my Spec flywheel after 30k)

[AudiA4Turbo22]

Finally Thomas, stepping up into the big leagues now. Lookin good!

[A4SoftWalker]

Finally Thomas, stepping up into the big leagues now. Lookin good!

Thomas??? Haha think you got my name mixed up with someone else.
All good. My bad to be gone all these years not feelin any b6 love.
Folks call me "Jo" mainly or "TKO" but that goes further back.
Whats up with you? Hows SoCal? Still driving that TIP with BAT?

Are you rockin the PSI Concepts mani? Whats the biggest turbo that will fit with that?

So anyway thanks for stopping in to take a look at my build and comment. You're always welcome.
I didn't miss anything on my build did I?
LOL I'm an old schooler on this chassis now.
Pretty much...

[Seerlah]

I plan on a stroker in the future, and this thread is actually motivation for what route I want to take.

[Audi body]

Thanks a lot! I'm looking forward to see what the Autotech cam can do with a built motor and BT/BAT.
Good luck with your install. Are you using break-in oil as well? And are you prepared for the smoke-fest as the rings set?

I'm hoping for a smooth break in! It's this weekend and I'm kinda getting real excited. Doing checks after checks to make sure I got everything. Still sure I'm missing something. Haha. Yeah we shall see about the smoke fest. Blow by is sure to happen. Still debating driving for 15 to 30 miles and getting it to red line or taking a more soft approach.

[AudiA4_20T]

I just did regular oil and beat the hell out of it lol

[old guy]

I just did regular oil and beat the hell out of it lol

Yep. Drive it like you stole it. Break it in hard and fast. It has always worked for me. Here's a pertinent link: Clicky click®

[Seerlah]

Rebuilding my short block, yet again due to an oil pump failure (sucks butt cheeks). Got lucky the head wasn't damaged. Going to break it in this way same way I did last time.

-Brad Penn break in oil (12 quarts) with Large Mobil 1 filters
-Start car, bring to operating temp, drain oil and replace filter
-Block still hot, change oil with new filter, and beat the crap out of it with lots of mixed driving for 20 minutes (will break it in on a 530hp turbo that I'll probably run on 15psi WG pressure)
-Drain oil again with replacement filter, and drive for roughly 500 miles on last Brad Penn fill while deciding my next route (probably SAE 30 with Redline ZDDP or Amsoil break in oil, as I plan on running Amsoil again. will pick it up on oil order)
-After maybe 1500 miles, I'll Amsoil Euro 5w40 full SAPS with OEM Mann large filters

[A4SoftWalker]

I plan on a stroker in the future, and this thread is actually motivation for what route I want to take.

Nice I'll keep an eye out for your build - feel free to feed off my successes and learn from my failures... or discoveries

^^^added more build parts pics over double the pics now^^^

I'm hoping for a smooth break in! It's this weekend and I'm kinda getting real excited. Doing checks after checks to make sure I got everything. Still sure I'm missing something. Haha. Yeah we shall see about the smoke fest. Blow by is sure to happen. Still debating driving for 15 to 30 miles and getting it to red line or taking a more soft approach.

The purpose of break in is to allow the rings and engine walls to form a solid seal. AND to allow other engine parts to wear into each other and form smooth friction-free surfaces
I used break-in oil and allowed the process to occur with normal driving and moderate acceleration.
My rings set in the 5-7mile range. Amsoil break-in oil used.

I hit 5k rpm after solid warm up few times.

After 2nd oil change I hit 6k rpm. Done at 300mi switched to Castrol GT.
Same 6k rpm after 3rd oil change Done at 600mi switched to Royal Purple break-in oil.

Royal Purple advises against leaving break in oil in for more than 2500mi.
I'll leave this stuff in till 1200mi. Then switch to my normal 50/50 Amsoil-Royal Purple mix or Motul. Depending on what I run into.

[Audi body]

Well I dropped in my stroker and had no smoke at all, like you described. So far my vacuum at idle is 11 put the car is so smooth. No missfires or rough idle.

[A4SoftWalker]

Well I dropped in my stroker and had no smoke at all, like you described. So far my vacuum at idle is 11 put the car is so smooth. No missfires or rough idle.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

How does the power feel?

I would be concerned with a vacuum that low. I'm sitting at 19 now but I forget what it was first start up. I know it wasn't low... Hmmm... were your vacuum lines all re-done with "fresh" screw-clamp/other connectors?

What oil, pistons/ring gapping are you using?

Very strange for a newly hand rebuilt motor not to smoke as it wears in.
Then again just maybe your measurements were just that perfect?

[Audi body]

The motor was assembled by a shop. I'll have to get the paper work. The power feels great. I remember making a turn and down shifting and slowing down more then I thought and feeling the engine bog down untill boost starts to go again. I really dont feel the bog down part anymore with the 2.0. It feels so much clean and powerful. I'm still running the Apr ko4 tune with it. Now I'll be finishing up the rest of my shopping since the engine is running great.

[A4SoftWalker]

What CR pistons are you running? Anything lower than 9.25 could be the reason for your lower than stock vacuum.

[Kittrell]

Thomas??? Haha think you got my name mixed up with someone else.

This be Thomas. I think it is just the combination of your names and dark avatars. I often confuse you two as well.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/member...015-a4darkness

[Audi body]

What CR pistons are you running? Anything lower than 9.25 could be the reason for your lower than stock vacuum.

I know they are top end mahle pistons. I'll have to check size.

[A4SoftWalker]

This be Thomas. I think it is just the combination of your names and dark avatars. I often confuse you two as well.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/member...015-a4darkness

Ohhhh!!! YEAH I definitely remember "a4darkness" of "Engine Strengthening" fame. I didn't connect the dots with the name and avatar. We are both here in the SF Bay Area - I'm more East Bay; but we have not had the occasion to meet personally yet. I can see how its possible to get us mixed up.

[A4SoftWalker]

Here are some pics of my Spec Stage 3+ clutch setup:
I hope I took a pic of the clutch somewhere and not just the pressure plate and refurbished flywheel...

Pressure Plate back:


Pressure Plate front:



Refinished and spin-balanced billet steel flywheel:

[vinny.dtw]

... AND there are a million things that you can do in the city?

There are so many ways to build a motor. Different parts for rods/pistons/exhaust-intake headers/spark-plugs/.../...etc. I too considered all that crankshaft knife-edging and larger pistons and stroking... I have a simple build philosophy - Its been said on here several times in the past and as I struggled to focus my build always pulls me back down to earth : Do Not Over Mod Your Ride.

lmao. Good job keeping it simple.

[A4SoftWalker]

lmao. Good job keeping it simple.

Thanks bro...

You my Home-State buddy were almost barely left out of my AZ memorable shoutout list^^^ due to my forgetfulness but not any more.
You've been added. As an old schooler I learned from back in the day.

Young pups get on here now and instead of reading more and talking less try to act like this is facebook... lol... . Same topic thread will be on page one like 3 or 5 times. I should take a screen shot of that and post it up one day... Title it something like, "Is This Really Necessary?" HILARIOUS. No popularity contest here. I say it like it is and let the chips fall where they may.

Stay Tuned...

[Seerlah]

Nice I'll keep an eye out for your build - feel free to feed off my successes and learn from my failures... or discoveries

I have a build thread. I don't own a B6, so it is in my section (pretty long). Documented a lot of ups and downs, currently on a down. But that is how it goes, I guess!

Hope your setup causes you way less problems than mine has.

[A4SoftWalker]

I just did regular oil and beat the hell out of it lol

Yep. Drive it like you stole it. Break it in hard and fast. It has always worked for me. Here's a pertinent link: Clicky click®

Really? Not with my hard earned bucks in THIS motor.
Here is my philosophy and opinion on engine break-in.

After I took my motor apart to bits and pieces and had these smallest of parts in my hands ... fingers...
Like a father holding his child in his arms for the 1st time I would do ALL I COULD to keep this motor running strong and to give it the BEST start in life.

Romping on it full throttle in the first few minutes of breathing to give it a screaming start to life is not amongst the wisest things I could do to pledge allegiance to "guard, protect, and enjoy" this motor. At the same time I would not be too gentle. I would commit to a balanced middle of the road mix of frequent oil changes and various throttle applications and engine speeds.

These tiny li'l buggers... shown below in all their glory.
They should look familiar to a few of us here and totally alien to others.
These parts my fellow AZ'ers are the smallest teensiest parts of our motors.
What do they do?
Scroll down further...















VALVE KEEPERS 20 pairs total in our motors 12 pairs intake and 8 pairs exhaust. I think about these tiny fellas when I'm getting on my throttle prior to a proper break-in. They hold our valves in our cylinder heads.

I watched that video from the motorcycle engine builder years ago. I filed some parts of it away for knowledge and the rest as just hear-say.

One thing I remember Greg (400HPA4) telling me or posting on here I can't remember now it was at least 6 years ago - is that, "We have turbo charged engines... boost sets rings pretty quickly".

While according to the motorcycle engine builder vacuum is the main force that assists in getting new piston rings to set HOWEVER we 1.8T'ers also have BOOST to help our rings take on a good sealing set quite a bit quicker than a naturally aspirated car would.

I have read articles online (and there are many) of naturally aspirated cars taking up to 20miles for the piston rings to set - with no averse effects and ample engine compression afterwards.

My rings set somewhere within 5 & 7 miles using Amsoil break-in oil.

Assuming rings are the only parts of the engine that need to be broken in then sure have on that motor. Get the rpms up to max and think nothing of it.

Motorcycles don't risk broken rods and cranks to the potential that our BT/BAT car might when pushing 400+hp.

An improperly broken in motor is risking spun bearings in the pistons, crankshaft, and potentially even in the camshaft from not allowing parts to "run-in" properly. I'm going to "season" my motor for at least 2500mi before "really rompin on it". I dont have a racing engine that will be broken down at the end of the season or whatever. This motor needs to last me a decent amount of mileage and service...

Some may have heard of the rumor of how BMW used to season their racing engine blocks outdoors for months even going so far as to urinate on the block for good measure. Click here for BMW block seasoning.

Now I hope I didn't just jinx myself... but I intend to expose my built motor to quite a few heat cycles before heading for the clouds.

[Seerlah]

What determines longevity of the motor is piston rings and bearings. Piston rings break in roughly the first 20 minutes of driving. After that, the glaze takes over and it's done. You want to break your motor in with lots of mixed driving in the first 20 minutes with lots of engine breaking. And you want decent boost. The boost pressure presses the rings against the cross hatches, making them seat properly to your application. I personally broke my last engine in at 15 psi on a gt2871r. Building another one and will break it in on a larger turbo at 15psi ewg pressure. I wrote above in a previous post my procedure.

[AudiA4_20T]

Also, I get the whole babying it thing, but if stuff is gonna break it's gonna break. It's not like if you don't romp on it everything will stay together. We're talking engine internals here

[Seerlah]

As mentioned above, you just never know. Broke mine in how I listed above, had a good 45k on it (I don't grandma my car), and damn oil pump failure does me in. Rebuilding again, and will break it in the same way I did last time. Tried and proven, and I'm not the only one who has done it this way.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...t=Engine+break