Audi S6 (C7 2013) Tuning advise

[Dedemp]

So I'm a proud owner of an Audi S6 2013. with 150.000 km on the clock. Off course want to do some tuning stuff. Everything what I couldn't afford when I was younger. One of the big problems is the low pressure fuel pump. It's the same as the 2.0 and 3.0 tfsi. I wanna go for a pretty big tune in the future. But im making a list with everything i need to buy. My question is. Will a rs6 lpfp pump suffice? or does everyone with a 700hp RS6 an adjustment on the LPFP? or do you drop a walbro 525 in it?

Buy List for now is.

SRM Dual LPFP (really needed?)

034motorsport HPFP

Fuel reroute lines

034motorsport heat exchanger

APR Highflow cat + Exhaust

APR Intake

APR+NGK Coils and Spark plugs (colder)

After this i would like to do a ECU tune, and maybe in the future go for some turbo upgrades. Is there anything else what I need to check?

Check list also needed to be done.
-Walnut Blasting

Hope some experts can help me further underway. I will do everything myself except the ecu tune.

[Burkeomatic]

Are you upgrading your turbos? E85? Which tune?

I use the DS1 and they have an upgrade path already laid out.

If you have no plans for E, that lpfp is overkill. For your cooling, the factory system is limited, and can only take you so far, it may be worth considering an air to air set up. If you take the money from the lpfp and other cooling upgrades, you're most of the way to the ecs set up.

https://www.dynospectrum.com/getting-started

This is in the manual.

Stage 1 handles tune only. It also is the choice for RS6/RS7/S8 with upgraded intakes. Std RPM for stage 1/1 COD on RS6/RS7/S8 for stock TCU have stock rev limits to avoid TCU errors. For performance or plus models (with 597HP/605PS), use the ones without “Std RPM” in their name as their TCU can handle 7000 RPM.

Stage 2 on S6/S7/A8 is for full intakes to the turbos (SRM or the larger intakes from RS6/RS7 fitted to S6/S7). On RS6/RS7/S8, stage 2 used to be for downpipes, but now is for cool climate use or with upgraded intercooling, intakes optional. It runs a little more boost.

Downpipes must only be used where the product is certified for use in your location. Downpipes that are certified for use will not produce check engine lights or fault codes and do not need them to be bypassed. Using downpipes that have inadequate cat performance will produce fault codes. We cannot enter into discussions about circumventing emissions systems. Where downpipes were previously used, these setups have also been used with OEM downpipes and they work well particularly with ethanol, water methanol injection and/or enhanced intercooling.

Stage 3 is for intakes and one step larger turbos. Intercooler upgrades are recommended at higher stages, this replaces previous advice to use downpipes. On S6/S7/A8, one step larger turbos means RS6/RS7/S8 turbos. On RS6/RS7/S8, one step larger turbos means approx 4mm larger compressors (eg SRM +4mm, Turbo Systems TS1). Using some ethanol or higher octane fuel is strongly recommended on the high compression engines (S6/S7/A8) particularly. You should also consider TCU upgrades from other vendors (find them in the Facebook group: Dyno Spectrum 4.0T owners group or through our dealer page) as there is a risk of clutch slip on the S6/S7 and the rev limits being too low particularly on the A8. Datalogging is important at stage 3 and above and with ethanol to make sure that knock and fuel pressures are under control as well as the boost being optimal.

Stage 4 is for S6/S7/A8 only and is stage 3 plus approx 4mm larger compressors (eg SRM +4mm, Turbo Systems TS1).

Std RPM variant for ZF 8 speed models should be used for regular S8 or RS6/7 models (ie < 597 HP/605PS stock) that do not have a TCU tune. Performance or Plus models with 597 HP/605PS stock or with TCU tunes should use the ones that do not have std RPM in their name so that the rev limiter is 7000 RPM to match the TCU. Others can change RPM limits as per later instructions.

LP lines and HPFP plungers
If you want to run more than E25 on turbos larger than S6/S7/A8 (includes stock turbos on RS6/RS7/S8), you need to upgrade the high pressure fuel pump plungers/pistons to 1.5mm larger such as made by Autotech or as complete units from Loba. Cleanliness and install technique is vital for these to avoid problems. You also need upgraded low pressure lines. Then you can run the stages that have “LP lines and HPFP plungers” in their name and the ignition timing, lambda and sometimes boost pressure (especially if your base fuel is 91 octane) will increase as you approach E50, whereas without these parts and maps the boost pressure will drop rapidly to less than stock as you approach E50. On turbos larger than RS6/RS7/S8 you will probably not be able to reach full E85 and will have to datalog to determine the level. Often our users settle at E50 to E60 on these larger turbos depending on the air temperatures, elevation and boost achieved.

[MattyMarkey]

So I'm a proud owner of an Audi S6 2013. with 150.000 km on the clock. Off course want to do some tuning stuff. Everything what I couldn't afford when I was younger. One of the big problems is the low pressure fuel pump. It's the same as the 2.0 and 3.0 tfsi. I wanna go for a pretty big tune in the future. But im making a list with everything i need to buy. My question is. Will a rs6 lpfp pump suffice? or does everyone with a 700hp RS6 an adjustment on the LPFP? or do you drop a walbro 525 in it?

Buy List for now is.

SRM Dual LPFP (really needed?)

034motorsport HPFP

Fuel reroute lines

034motorsport heat exchanger

APR Highflow cat + Exhaust

APR Intake

APR+NGK Coils and Spark plugs (colder)

After this i would like to do a ECU tune, and maybe in the future go for some turbo upgrades. Is there anything else what I need to check?

Check list also needed to be done.
-Walnut Blasting

Hope some experts can help me further underway. I will do everything myself except the ecu tune.

No need for:

HX - need fueling (E85) or WMI if you want the benefits of additional cooling. HX/CWA pump upgrade will give you marginal improvements with recovery time. A2A is the best option.
APR Coils / APR Intake - does nothing. Need larger turbo inlets (OEM RS7 or SRM or other aftermarket option)
Downpipes/Exhaust - not worth it until you get into larger turbo territory
LPFP - like Burkeomatic said, unless you are already planning Ethanol fueling upgrade, and massive turbo's, there is no need for this.

Everything else you said makes sense. You'll want a TCU tune as well, especially on the DL501, which is separate from the ECU tune. Spend your money on Ethanol (or WMI), A2A, HPFP, ECU/TCU tune, and driveline upgrades (Carrier bearing, Billet mounts). Even after this, your stock turbo's will then be the limiting factor

DS1 is the only way to go for your goals

[Dedemp]

Im tuning in the netherlands, So we don't do a lot of e85 fuel. So that is out of the picture. We have here tuners that map the ecu and gearbox ecu on the dyno. He told me quickly before I go to him. The LPFP is Stock already too small, its the same that goes in the 2.0 and 3.0 engine. So i need to upgrade that one with the HPFP otherwise the car will get too hot. Als go for a degree colder spark plugs. After this he said the S6 will be ready for a big tune. But it looks like the lpfp from srm is a bit overkill then.

[MattyMarkey]

Im tuning in the netherlands, So we don't do a lot of e85 fuel. So that is out of the picture. We have here tuners that map the ecu and gearbox ecu on the dyno. He told me quickly before I go to him. The LPFP is Stock already too small, its the same that goes in the 2.0 and 3.0 engine. So i need to upgrade that one with the HPFP otherwise the car will get too hot. Als go for a degree colder spark plugs. After this he said the S6 will be ready for a big tune. But it looks like the lpfp from srm is a bit overkill then.

Only going off what you are saying the tuner told you, and not knowing his experience with the 4.0t platform, I personally would be very cautious with him - aka I personally would not be going to him just based off that info.

LPFP on Euro 95 octane is not how to "run cool". The only way to do that properly without E85, is Water Meth Injection.

I would highly suggest looking into the Dyno Spectrum Facebook group, reading through the information there, potentially asking questions, and highly consider a DS1 which has Off The Shelf (OTS) tunes. You dont need a custom tune, from a tuner, until higher stages. Tuner will also be able to use the DS1 to provide a custom map.

[Audibellybutton]

If youre not running ethanol you honestly dont need any of the fuel upgrades. Adding water meth will do plenty for you. If you do decide to go that route. You will handle cooling and octane in one swing. Your main focuses should be Tune, turbos and WG (I recommend TGK wastegates) and just log from there and see if you want to add anything else after

[Ramaloce]

So I'm a proud owner of an Audi S6 2013. with 150.000 km on the clock. Off course want to do some tuning stuff. Everything what I couldn't afford when I was younger. One of the big problems is the low pressure fuel pump. It's the same as the 2.0 and 3.0 tfsi. I wanna go for a pretty big tune in the future. But im making a list with everything i need to buy. My question is. Will a rs6 lpfp pump suffice? or does everyone with a 700hp RS6 an adjustment on the LPFP? or do you drop a walbro 525 in it?

Buy List for now is.

SRM Dual LPFP (really needed?)

034motorsport HPFP

Fuel reroute lines

034motorsport heat exchanger

APR Highflow cat + Exhaust

APR Intake

APR+NGK Coils and Spark plugs (colder)

After this i would like to do a ECU tune, and maybe in the future go for some turbo upgrades. Is there anything else what I need to check?

Check list also needed to be done.
-Walnut Blasting

Hope some experts can help me further underway. I will do everything myself except the ecu tune.

If you aren't planning on upgrading turbos any time soon just add WMI, fuel reroute, maybe some Brisk ER10s plugs so you don't lose a ground strap off an NGK, and an ECU/TCU tune and call it a day. If you don't have ethanol WMI will be your friend. IATs and knock are your biggest enemies with these cars. WMI helps with both. WMI can also be used with larger turbos if/when you do them in the future. You can put the biggest tune you want in the car but if you can't control the heat and knock it'll run like a turd. This is just my humble opinion.

WMI will also clean your valves so you don't have to pull the whole engine to do a walnut blasting

One last thing, if you're still on stock turbos you might want to make sure your oil screen recall was done and pull your inlets off to see if your turbos are still tight before you go pushing them....if they aren't tight and you try to push them very bad things could happen.

[MattyMarkey]

If you aren't planning on upgrading turbos any time soon just add WMI, fuel reroute, maybe some Brisk ER10s plugs so you don't lose a ground strap off an NGK, and an ECU/TCU tune and call it a day. If you don't have ethanol WMI will be your friend. IATs and knock are your biggest enemies with these cars. WMI helps with both. WMI can also be used with larger turbos if/when you do them in the future. You can put the biggest tune you want in the car but if you can't control the heat and knock it'll run like a turd. This is just my humble opinion.

WMI will also clean your valves so you don't have to pull the whole engine to do a walnut blasting

One last thing, if you're still on stock turbos you might want to make sure your oil screen recall was done and pull your inlets off to see if your turbos are still tight before you go pushing them....if they aren't tight and you try to push them very bad things could happen.

There are tuners out there that turn off knock sensitivity so it doesnt run like a turd, which only by the description and advice of this tuner, that's what he will likely do... this will very likely cause damage to the engine quickly, or over a period of time.

[Ramaloce]

There are tuners out there that turn off knock sensitivity so it doesnt run like a turd, which only by the description and advice of this tuner, that's what he will likely do... this will very likely cause damage to the engine quickly, or over a period of time.

Yeah you’re right. That tuner does seem a little sketchy.

[Dedemp]

I think its my lack of knowledge and not wording it right. Because the tuner is here very respected, and is know for the durability of his tunes. E85 we just don't do in the netherlands, because we dont have gasstations with it.

Im totally convinced on the air to air, and i got my eyes on a turbosystems stage 1 turbokit.

[MattyMarkey]

I think its my lack of knowledge and not wording it right. Because the tuner is here very respected, and is know for the durability of his tunes. E85 we just don't do in the netherlands, because we dont have gasstations with it.

Im totally convinced on the air to air, and i got my eyes on a turbosystems stage 1 turbokit.

Could certainly be. Though I would love to see if you can get an explanation from your tuner, as to why he recommends an LPFP because the stock is too small for stage1/2/3 on a S6, and will help with cooling. There are so many people now on this platform that run higher stages on unleaded fuel and are able to support stage 1 larger turbo's (+4mm) without the need for LPFP, and certainly not upgrading it for cooling purposes.

To run larger turbo's, it needs more air, you need to add larger turbo inlets to your parts list. Stock inlets on the S6/7 are a restriction (Your tuner should know that)

Anyway, the HX you have will not help with making your charge air cooler during pulls (only helps recovery), so will still be running issues with high IAT and knock... the only way your tuner can compensate for that is: 1) create a safe tune that pulls power when knock and IATs reach dangerous levels for your engine 2) create a tune that reduces knock sensitivity where you notice less of a power loss when IATs/Knock increases.

A2A is the way to go. Port Injection with A2A is even better. Your tuner would likely need to have experience tuning Port Injection

[Dedemp]

Thanks guys from all the input. Im a bit further in gathering all the stuff for the tune. And it got a bit out of control. Still only parts, now i need time to install everything. But still some Questions...

I got a friend who went to a different tuner, as i got to talk with the guy. I still got a road ahead before I go for the complete tuning, I want everything done at once :D

So parts list I got right now at home

-APR Downpipe + Exhaust + X-pipe
-Turbosystems Turbos +4mm Stage one
-Turbosystems Actuators
-Turbosystems Throttle body (alot bigger)
-IE Intake box
-HF Series Turbo Inlets – Audi S6
-HG Coils
-Brisk ER10s plugs
-034Motorsport Heat Exchanger
-034Motorsport Drivetrain inserts
-034Motorsport HPFP
-Kyletunedit LPFP
-JXB driveshaft carrier
-Merc Racing ChargeCooler
-Pierburg CWA 100-3

Im waiting @ tgk to start a preorder for their TGK Motorsport Audi 4.0T Blow-Off Valve Conversion Kit

-So their are some things I need to check before i can start. With the talk with the tuner, he said sometimes the DL501 holds and works fine after the tune (tcu tune), but with the HP with this tune sometimes it can get some troubles. Is a new clutchpack a must as my car already has a 100k miles on it. Also he pointed out the car used up all the launches (previous owner). So there might be some wear on the clutch.

-My first thought I do an easy walnutblasting but as it turns out. You have to remove the engine completely to make the walnutblasting possible. As i stay with water to air. Someone here mentioned that WMI will be my friend coolingwise and also can help with the carbon build up on the intake valves and which set do you guys recommend. I now have a fault code on cilinder 1 and 2 that the system is too rich. When i used a chemical cleaner and went to germany for a power ride, it goes away. but its always back after 2-3 months. So i think my intakes and injectors are a bit full of carbon build up.

- Ohh and here in the netherlands we all run performance cars on BP 98 octane. E85 is no option here.

[Audibellybutton]

Thanks guys from all the input. Im a bit further in gathering all the stuff for the tune. And it got a bit out of control. Still only parts, now i need time to install everything. But still some Questions...

I got a friend who went to a different tuner, as i got to talk with the guy. I still got a road ahead before I go for the complete tuning, I want everything done at once :D

So parts list I got right now at home

-APR Downpipe + Exhaust + X-pipe
-Turbosystems Turbos +4mm Stage one
-Turbosystems Actuators
-Turbosystems Throttle body (alot bigger)
-IE Intake box
-HF Series Turbo Inlets – Audi S6
-HG Coils
-Brisk ER10s plugs
-034Motorsport Heat Exchanger
-034Motorsport Drivetrain inserts
-034Motorsport HPFP
-Kyletunedit LPFP
-JXB driveshaft carrier
-Merc Racing ChargeCooler
-Pierburg CWA 100-3

Im waiting @ tgk to start a preorder for their TGK Motorsport Audi 4.0T Blow-Off Valve Conversion Kit

-So their are some things I need to check before i can start. With the talk with the tuner, he said sometimes the DL501 holds and works fine after the tune (tcu tune), but with the HP with this tune sometimes it can get some troubles. Is a new clutchpack a must as my car already has a 100k miles on it. Also he pointed out the car used up all the launches (previous owner). So there might be some wear on the clutch.

-My first thought I do an easy walnutblasting but as it turns out. You have to remove the engine completely to make the walnutblasting possible. As i stay with water to air. Someone here mentioned that WMI will be my friend coolingwise and also can help with the carbon build up on the intake valves and which set do you guys recommend. I now have a fault code on cilinder 1 and 2 that the system is too rich. When i used a chemical cleaner and went to germany for a power ride, it goes away. but its always back after 2-3 months. So i think my intakes and injectors are a bit full of carbon build up.

- Ohh and here in the netherlands we all run performance cars on BP 98 octane. E85 is no option here.

You dont run e85 you have no use for an LPFP upgrade that is honestly a huge waste of money. There is no fuel delivery issues using gasoline. Our fuel pump is the exact same fuel pump as the RS7 minus an extra feed tube. IDK who your tuner is but that guy does not know what he is talking about. You also do not need walnut blasting on this car. and you dont need HPFP pistons either. At most, for a fuel upgrade would be lpfp fuel lines.

I gave you a heads up earlier in this thread but you didnt listen. Now I think your best mod you need next is ditch that tuner


A real tuner will look at your logs and tell you what you need, not throw random guesses. You were never going to run out of fuel on gasoline or reach power levels where you could. So why would you need to upgrade the pump?

[MattyMarkey]

You dont run e85 you have no use for an LPFP upgrade that is honestly a huge waste of money. There is no fuel delivery issues using gasoline. Our fuel pump is the exact same fuel pump as the RS7 minus an extra feed tube. IDK who your tuner is but that guy does not know what he is talking about. You also do not need walnut blasting on this car. and you dont need HPFP pistons either. At most, for a fuel upgrade would be lpfp fuel lines.

I gave you a heads up earlier in this thread but you didnt listen. Now I think your best mod you need next is ditch that tuner


A real tuner will look at your logs and tell you what you need, not throw random guesses. You were never going to run out of fuel on gasoline or reach power levels where you could. So why would you need to upgrade the pump?

Don't we feel like a broken record on this one... Feel bad for him, but it's his money in the end. He also doesnt need the Merc Racing brick, unless he just wants to spend money for a quality piece over the OEM (no cooling difference).

You would most certainly benefit from WMI - multiple kits out there and you really cannot go wrong. What you should do, is find one that your installer and tuner have experience with (and hopefully a different tuner).

The only clutch pack upgrade I have heard about is from TVS, which also requires you to use their TCU tune. Big money as well.

Before you do any of this, you really need to look into and fix those fault codes correctly. Walnut blast is not going to solve that, and very likely nothing to do with intake manifold.

[SpongeM]

IF one decides to upgrade to rs7 +4 turbos, (w/ Upgraded inlets.)
besides tune what else would one require?
Removal of revised oil screen?
MAP Sensor? (Which bar or tuner specific?)

[MattyMarkey]

IF one decides to upgrade to rs7 +4 turbos, (w/ Upgraded inlets.)
besides tune what else would one require?
Removal of revised oil screen?
MAP Sensor? (Which bar or tuner specific?)

All depends on your fueling... if staying with unleaded fuel, many people have:

1) ECU/TCU tune, Turbo's, Inlets, colder spark plugs (Ok. IAT/Knock issues)
2) ECU/TCU tune, Turbo's, Inlets, HX & CWA Pump upgrade, colder spark plugs (Slightly better - IAT recovery times)
3) ECU/TCU tune, Turbo's, Inlets, WMI, colder spark plugs (Good)

4) Custom ECU tune, TCU tune, Turbo's, inlets, DP's, E85 fuel line kit, HPFP, plungers, WMI, 4bar MAP, spark plugs (Better)

Driveline upgrades are highly recommended with any stage over stock (Carrier Bearing, Inserts). Oil screen removal is occasionally dependent on which turbo manufacturer you go with. Otherwise, upgraded rev under recall is OK as far as we know.

[SpongeM]

Thanks Matty!!!
Much appreciated!!!

[Dedemp]

Don't we feel like a broken record on this one... Feel bad for him, but it's his money in the end. He also doesnt need the Merc Racing brick, unless he just wants to spend money for a quality piece over the OEM (no cooling difference).

You would most certainly benefit from WMI - multiple kits out there and you really cannot go wrong. What you should do, is find one that your installer and tuner have experience with (and hopefully a different tuner).

The only clutch pack upgrade I have heard about is from TVS, which also requires you to use their TCU tune. Big money as well.

Before you do any of this, you really need to look into and fix those fault codes correctly. Walnut blast is not going to solve that, and very likely nothing to do with intake manifold.

TVS engineering is here in the Netherlands. and they are renowned as the DSG doktor. Will have a look at that. But indeed big money. JHM has also one for the half of the money. boostparts.de also have different sets.

LPFP and HPFP have been bought, i can't go back now. I went this weekend to another tuner, where the stories about tuning more allign what have been said here on the forum. WMI is next on my list now.