Oil Consumption Issues to the point of needing a Ring Job? Piston Ring Soak Thread

[mahhdd]

I'm seeing a few guys post this as a solution who are experiencing some massive oil consumption issues on the 3.0t

A shop's normal proposal was to do a $7,000 ring job; but, this option might help you avoid having to do a rebuild or get a new motor...
The cost is minimal and it's fairly easy to do.

The main three concerns I'm seeing doing this are:

1. This can dilute the oil to the point bearing damage takes place
2. When the carbon build-ups loosen, they can damage your engine if you don't remove them appropriately
3. You need to be sure you out all fluids from the cylinders before starting, otherwise you can bend a rod or 'best case' break the starter
4. One user experienced added cold-start noise - but read note below on this... It's unlikely this was from the soak

SumYungGuy said: "I still hear a very brief rattly kind of noise on cold starts, but no negative side effects otherwise" but we all kind of suspect it's him 'paying more attention' to how things are after he did this soak, and it's likely normal timing chain rattle.

Results from others seen so far:

I went from 1Qt every 300 miles to zero usage over a 4 week period.
Berrymans B12 soak does work wonders!
I did not turn the crank as the build up was in chunks and did not want to mar the cylinders.
Soaked up to the spark plug hole in an attempt to cover the entire piston. (Exhaust was off, if you fill it all the way up it will leak into your Exhaust)
24hr soak refilling after 12hrs. I just added a rubber hose to air nozzle to blow around the pistons through the spark plug hole and vacuumed it out with a hand dredge attachment.
Results look good I will post oil consumption results next week.
I would recommend pulling the plugs and turning the crank to get tdc on two cylinders and fill the cylinders full. Soak 6-12hrs and do another two. Spreading it out. With the angle of the pistons its hard to get a full soak doing them all at once and you will waist 3X as many cans of B12.. some say turn the crank (BY HAND only!) Blow and vacuum out the crud until your happy.
No worries your first start may be delayed crank and you make smoke a bit until the b12 is burned out. Mine took about 15 minutes.

His posts seen below

If your car is burning ALOT of oil, this post is for you.
A year ago i bought an Audi a6 c7 2012 with the 3.0tfsi, although everyone told me not to, i stil did. The first day I got it, the oil Light came on so I called the previous owner and he told me that he just did an oil change, he told me maybe he didnt put enough oil so i added 1L of oil. After 300km de Light came up again, at this point I was wondering if it wasnt the oil sensor which was broken so i sent the car to an Audi garage, and they all told me the piston ring was bad and the only way to fix the oil consumption problem was either to buy a new engine or replace the current piston ring with brand new one, with was 13k CAD. 7 month later the car was BAD, misfiring, oil consumption was worst than ever and the oil was black like charcoal even after a fresh oil change. At this point i though the car was going to blow up.
There was 1 more thing that I saw on YouTube that I wanted to try to save the car, piston soak! So i ordered 2 bottle of B12, 1 liqui Molly engine flush, brand new spark plug and a fresh oil kit from liqui Molly
I started by removing the coil pack and the spark plug and I added 50ml of B12 in each cylinder, let it soak for 24 hour, Turned the crank by hand and added Another 50ml and let it soak for Another 24h, I used a air Compressor to remove every liquid and Carbon that was still in the piston, installed the brand new spark plug I added the liqui Molly engine flush I to the old oil and started the car, let it run for a good 20min, flushed the oil and added brand new oil.
I did 300km and the car didnt burn any oil so at this point I knew that it helped with the oil consumption but how much did it help?
Well I did a road trip of 1500km just to see how much oil the car burned and it comes out that the car didnt burn a single drop of oil in 1500km so yes, the piston soaking is in my opinion the best thing to try if your car is burning oil
If you have any question just ask me i will answer here, really Hope this post will help some people!

<I'll add it when I can find it>

He had a post but I can't find it because navigating Facebook is fucking TRASH...


Video on how to do this: https://youtu.be/7aY1yDxSiJw?si=34ZWw9FFTPE3u9mD&t=1533
NOTE: you'll have to do some fast-forward to get to the procedure, but there's some context here where there's enough crud in the engine to cause an issue to where he can't turn the crank by hand

Instructions (as seen in his YT description)
- Soak the pistons when they are at top dead center to ensure the whole crown of the piston is covered in liquid
- Three pairs of 2 cylinders are normally at TDC at the same time - 1-6, 2-4 and 3-5
- The process took 72hrs but can probably be shortened - that's 24hrs per pair of pistons x 3
- I used 50ml of B-12 per piston ever 12hrs. That means I used 100ml of B-12 per piston on 600ml for the whole engine during the second stage of the flush
- B-12 breaks A LOT of carbon from inside the motor. If the soak is performed at TDC, B-12 is also soaking the bottom of the valves and the injector tips
- All of the garbage that B-12 dissolved accumulates at the bottom side of the piston (remember the piston is at 45deg) so when the liquid goes through the rings, the carbon deposits just sit on top of the piston preventing it from turning - you MUST clean your cylinders with compressed air after the soak...

WARNING!: Always turn the crank by hand multiple rotations before using the starter. This is very important. If you feel any resistance STOP immediately and make sure your cylinders are clear from any debris. If you use the starter YOU CAN CAUSE SERIOUS DAMAGE!!!

Items Needed & Potential Best Practices:
-I think it makes sense to change your oil immediately after doing this soak to prevent bearing wear from the B12 diluting the oil. Someone can fact check this or call bs... I don't know if letting it idle to op temp and THEN changing the oil is a risk or not
-Ensure you have access to power and an air compressor. Removing debris and carbon from the cylinders is difficult without it. It also may be needed to clear debris after the soak has been performed
-A borescope with an articulating head or this one that's a little more expensive - both are on special, so 'clip' the coupons on Amazon for the best deal
-You'll need a crankshaft tool like this one
-2 or 3 cans of B12
-You have to kind of babysit it over the 24 hours to make sure the pistons remain fully covered/soaked and the fluid doesn't evaporate off. Pistons at TDC won't hold as much fluid and the soak won't be as effective on those cylinders. Screwing the plugs in a few threads helps with evaporation some; but, obviously you can't the valves, so evap will happen regardless and that's out of your control. You can always rotate the crank to move the cylinders that didn't get soaked as long and make sure they are at bottom so the cylinder so you can soak them separately.

NOTE: I'll update this post with info learned as more people try it out...

Feel free to throw in your two cents below.

[f1torrents]

I did this on my 2.0T as preventative maintenance, so I can't say if it worked.

But I used xylene bought from the hardware store instead of B12.
Much cheaper and as per the MSDS B12 is 50% xylene.
Petroleum Distillates which is about 40% is most likely Naphtha which is also sold at any hardware store if you wanted to mix that in too.

https://www.berrymanproducts.com/ass...-1112-1165.pdf

[Nillious]

My pistons have been soaking since about 8pm yesterday Going to let them go till about 8 tonight. My car is down to a qt every 430 miles. It's really drinking the oil. We will see if this works.

[Nillious]

These are photos before the soak. Side view let's you see the amount of carbon on the piston really well. The mount of oil getting past the rings was actually loosening some of the carbon and it was actually smearing on the cylinder wall on some. The before photos of straight on did not show the extent of carbon. Just looked like a black piston.

https://i.imgur.com/9UXQy2w.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/GZn3Ll3.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/cavv4oP.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/RZORh8c.jpeg

Pic of solvent covering the whole piston.

https://i.imgur.com/6sEsTW4.jpeg

After the soak and initial easy drive with the berryman still in the oil. About a half hour run time never going over 2200 rpm. The piston is nearly completely clean. Can actually read the numbers on the piston.


https://i.imgur.com/b5qoEip.jpeg

Cylinder wall at 156k still has really good crosshatch.

https://i.imgur.com/4RERPLO.jpeg


Flushing the oil circuit out with new oil. Wanted to be sure I got as much contaminated oil out as possible.

https://i.imgur.com/eiITv1s.jpeg

Ignore the time stamps on the photos. The date was not set on the inspection camera.

I will post back with oil consumption results. So far this has eliminated a knock retard issue I was having. Oil greatly lowers octane in the chamber and my knock is gone completely so I'm going to assume oil consumption will greatly improve.

[f1torrents]

The vertical line in the after pictures.
Is that still present?
Is it a stain or a scratch.

Im not over the moon about that mark..

[Nillious]

I got a good pic of it up close. It appears to be a stain. There is also a stain around the cylinder where each piston was sitting with the solvent on it.

[Nillious]

I will add there are several instances where people used mmo or seafoam and didn't have good results. I have a piston out of a motorcycle engine at work and tested seafoam on it. Let it set overnight and it didn't touch the carbon. B12 did dissolve it with the same test. If anyone does this B12 is the way to go. It's also the cheapest so no reason to not use it.

[f1torrents]

MSDS

SEAFOAM
SECTION 3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Chemical Name CAS # Concentration
Hydrocarbon blend* Blend < 95%
Isopropanol 67-63-0 < 25%

B12
Section 3 – Composition / Information on Ingredients
Ingredient CAS Number Weight
Ethylbenzene 100-41-4 10-15%
Petroleum Distillates 64742-47-8 30-40%
n-Propanol 71-23-8 5-10%
Xylene (mixed isomers) 1330-20-7 40-50%

[f1torrents]

B12 to me is mainly Naphtha and Xylene.
Very inexpensive to buy a gallon of each from the hardware store and mix up something very close.

[Nillious]

Well it's early but I already see results on oil consumption. Was getting 400 miles to a qt. When I pulled into work I have 110 miles and oil is still at max. I would be at 3/4 by now before. Like isaid it's early but all signs point to good results.

I kept reading about the naphtha on some other sites during my research on results. I may look into that and do so.e testing. I work as a motorcycle/ATV/sxs technician and we have engine jobs all the time so finding pistons to test on is not an issue.

After some time logging and time running the car since the soak I do still see occasional .75 to 2 degrees knock on cylinder 4 and 5. All other cylinders have had zero knock. These cylinders also were the worst and the solvent drained through so quickly and I ran out so those two only soaked for about 12 hrs max. These were also the cylinders that had upwards of 10 degrees knock at times. I'm going to do one more round of soak focusing on these cylinders to get them clean. I will post back afterwards. Probably won't do it till next weekend.

[Fresh.S4]

Just pour it in and let it drain out where...?

[ThoseRings]

Just pour it in and let it drain out where...?

Same place you poured it in...

If it leaks past the rings...you ready for this....change the oil

[Nillious]

The idea is to keep solvent on the pistons for 24 hours. You need to check up on them as some cylinders are sealed up better than others. It will drain faster if the rings are not clogged. Also will evaporate faster on cylinders where the valves are open. I used three cans to completely cover the pistons tops. A few will be near tdc so you can't get much in those so not as long to soak on the pistons up high. You have to kind of babysit it over the 24 hours to make sure they remain covered. Screwing the plugs in a few threads helps but obviously you can't close the valves that's out of your control. This time I'll take the cylinders that didn't get soaked as long and make sure they are at bottom so the cylinder can hold enough for a longer soak. There was two that barely got cleared cause they were at top and only held a few ounces. I'll get it completely clear this time and maybe check up on the to see how they're looking over the next 20k or so. It's a process but it's better than a ring job that is not really needed.

If you do it you need to be sure you get it out of the cylinders before starting. You can bend a rod or best case break the starter of it's not all out. You probably know that but thought I'd mention it for others who may not.

[f1torrents]

If you do it you need to be sure you get it out of the cylinders before starting. You can bend a rod or best case break the starter of it's not all out. You probably know that but thought I'd mention it for others who may not.

Valid concern...

[mahhdd]

Updated the original post with that info

[Nillious]

I did a second soak and got it really clean this time. This is something I should have done years ago. I've been adding a qt every 400 miles for the past year. Down from about every 700 year before that. I just assumed the rings were gone.

Final results below. I also was still on max after 500 miles when I would have been dangerously low on oil before. Car has a smooth idle. Car used to feel a little misfire like on idle and it is gone. Cold start when the air pump would kick on id would misfire and and stumble. That is gone and cold start is smooth all the way through the air pump cycle. Exhaust used to have a baked oil smell on wot runs. That is gone and the exhaust has a much cleaner and crisper sound to it most likely from the timing not being retarded so much. Running full timing now the car is over a second faster 60-130. Was 13.1 and now 11.9.

https://i.imgur.com/VMaVU1H.jpeg

[Nillious]

Some tips after doing this. Car will be very hard to start afterwards. You want to crank at wot to push as much fresh air through the system as possible. When you get it started don't rev it high. Just try to hold it at about 1500-2000. Don't drive with the solvent in the oil.

After about ten minutes of run time I started to hear the chains develop a slight rattle. I immediately shut it down and pulled the filter and it was loaded with carbon. Drained oil and installed new filter and all was good. I did this one more time after about a half hour of run time still not driving. Drain that oil and change filter and you should be good to drive. After about 500 miles do it again. At this point you should be good to go.

Your going to obviously waste a lot of oil so just use cheap oil for the flushing. I used supertech. 10-40 and O'Riley select filters for 5 dollars a piece. Your final fill go back to approved oil and good filter.

Have a way to clear codes. The car will hide various cylinders during initial release run time. You'll need to clear and restart several times until it all straightens up.

Have extra spark plugs. You don't want to burn all that carbon out on a sixty dollar set of plugs. I used autolite 3924. They are two bucks each at O'Riley. After it's cleaned out put your new or newer good ugs back in. All said and done it took about 125 dollars to do this. It also helps if you have another car or way to work for a day or two.

I'll post back here when I get some miles on and monitor consumption. All signs point to it being really good.

[mahhdd]

Great info

[Fresh.S4]

Same place you poured it in...

If it leaks past the rings...you ready for this....change the oil

i ask because i saw someone post on fb that it could drain down the exhaust.....

[Nillious]

I will add that I went a little more aggressive than most I've seen. I poured enough to cover the entire piston. Most have put a few ounces in and not cover the whole top. I toped back up at the 12 hour mark after a lot had drained down. The whole process took 7 cans.

If you buy the "truck and suv" cans they are bigger and a little cheaper for the amount of solvent you get.

[Fresh.S4]

im really excited to consider this even though i dont think i meet the criteria, but at 145k it sounds like it can only help.

so this stuff, some kind of vacuum to pull the fluid out, lots of basic oil, and a couple days.

thanksgiving break is coming up next week.

[f1torrents]

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-St...XY24/100406366
$24.48/GAL

https://www.wmdyck.com/product/fuel-cmpg-liq-3-7-108l/
$39.91/GAL

Just an example. You can pick this stuff up at most local hardware/camping stores

$65 for 2 gallons. You can soak for weeks if you wanted....

[Nillious]

im really excited to consider this even though i dont think i meet the criteria, but at 145k it sounds like it can only help.

so this stuff, some kind of vacuum to pull the fluid out, lots of basic oil, and a couple days.

thanksgiving break is coming up next week.

Do you have any oil consumption, rough idle or cold starts, high amount of knock retard? If everything is fine I wouldn't do it until you have issues.

If you have any of the symptoms I mentioned give it a shot. The main reason I did it was oil consumption. I had no idea the other issues were related to carbon build up until they were suddenly gone.

[ToddRenn]

Wondering if anyone has a suggestion or has experienced the same problem. After soaking all my pistons, I cannot turn the crank past a certain point. Pistons 1 and 6 are close to top dead centre, but I can not get them to go down. It took several weeks to have the Crank shaft tool shipped to my location so I soaked the pistons a couple times and I am soaking 1 and 6 again, hoping to break down what ever carbon is in the piston. Any information would be helpful. I cant imagine I am the only person to experience this. In the euro trash video he talks about it, but it seems to have been resolved fairly easily. What to do.

Thanks in advance.

[f1torrents]

Did you remove all of the broken up carbon from the cylinder?
If not... There is your problem.

[Nillious]

What direction a are you turning? Just in case your unaware, The engine turns clockwise. So Always turn counter clockwise when standing in front of the car facing the engine. Never turn an engine backwards.

[LowKeyLoki]

What direction a are you turning? Just in case your unaware, The engine turns clockwise. So Always turn counter clockwise when standing in front of the car facing the engine. Never turn an engine backwards.

“Always turn counter clockwise” ? Assume you meant to say clockwise there.

[Nillious]

The engine turns clockwise. When standing in front of the car you turn counter clockwise actually turning the engine clockwise. 99 percent of people are going to turn the engine when standing in front facing the car. Is this situation you turn counter clockwise. Just like like when you loosen a bolt when the threads are facing you you turn the bolt to the right to loosen it.

I'm a mechanic for a living and I have found when talking to people who may not be as familiar with things you need to clarify what you are saying.

Perhaps it would be better to just leave it at always turn the engine towards the passenger side.

[ToddRenn]

Did you remove all of the broken up carbon from the cylinder?
If not... There is your problem.

I spent a lot of time blowing out the carbon, but piston 4 was more difficult than the rest. I clearly was not getting the tube completely through the spark plug hole. Once I was able to do that, I blew out a lot of carbon, then I soaked the piston again for 24-36 hours and finally got the piston moving. Given how many hours I have soaked these pistons I am hoping this engine does not burn a drop of oil. Thank for your help!

[ToddRenn]

Did you remove all of the broken up carbon from the cylinder?
If not... There is your problem.

I spent a lot of time blowing out the carbon from each piston or at least I thought I did. However piston 4 was more difficult than then I initially thought. I clearly was not getting the tube completely through the spark plug hole. Once I was able to do that, I blew out a lot of carbon, then I soaked the piston again for 24-36 hours and finally got the piston moving. Given how many hours I have soaked these pistons I am hoping this engine does not burn a drop of oil. Thank for your help!

[Nillious]

How was your oil consumption before? Mine was extreme at a qt every 400 miles. Since the soak I've only drove 659 miles and the reading is still on max so I've obviously seen an extreme improvement.

[Waffles_s4]

Is there a Youtube video for this process? Other than heavy oil consumption, are there other symptoms?

I have done a valve carbon cleaning about 10,000 miles ago, the idle is smooth, but I think this engine has a bit of vibration naturally, especially after a spirited drive.

[Nillious]

Is there a Youtube video for this process?
.

basically pull plugs. Pour in enough B12 to cover the pistons. Some will be higher than others so you'll need to rotate the engine after 12 hrs so you can cover them in the second half of the 24 hrs. Have a borescope so you can look to see if they are covered. After your done have a suction tool to remov remaining solvent. A lot will drain into your oil. Have a way to clear codes. The car will misfire and hide cylinders when it clearing out the solvent.

Once the ecu hides a cylinder it won't come back until after a restart. Good idea to have a jump pack as well Incase your battery gets low trying to restart.

Run the engine at about 1500 for a few minutes. Give it time for the oil filter to catch the carbon that will be in your oil. After about getting it up to temp and the engine is running smoothly do an oil change using the drain plug on the pan. You want drain the pan fully so if you use an oil extractor skip that and do a full drain out of the pan. Pull filter and wipe out the filter housing. Mine had tons of black shit in it. Pour some oil through the housing to flush down any remaining contaminated oil. Pour oil through the center feed tube of the housing to flush that part as well. See my above photos and read through as a lot of this had photos.

Refill with new filter and run for five hundred miles. Then change oil and filter again then you should be good to go back to 5k changes.

Read over my original post as there are other details like plugs and filters you can use to save money. Your going to cake your plugs in burnt carbon so you will want new ones when you are done.

[Nillious]

Other than heavy oil consumption, are there other symptoms?

Mine had a tone of knock retard. Up to 13 degrees on some cylinders. Most I ever see now is 2.5 to 3 hear and there on random cylinders and from all my research that is totally acceptable. The cat feels like it gained a good amount of power due to running full timing. Car is nearly a full second faster 60-130 on same tune and fuel. I also had bad misfires on cold start especially during the SAI pump cycle. I had a rough idle at stop lights and idling. It's much improved now but not perfect. I have not done an intake valve cleaning yet though and that can cause rough idle as well. Overall it's drastically improved though.

How much oil is your car consuming? Do you have a high amount of knock retard?

[Waffles_s4]

Mine had a tone of knock retard. Up to 13 degrees on some cylinders. Most I ever see now is 2.5 to 3 hear and there on random cylinders and from all my research that is totally acceptable. The cat feels like it gained a good amount of power due to running full timing. Car is nearly a full second faster 60-130 on same tune and fuel. I also had bad misfires on cold start especially during the SAI pump cycle. I had a rough idle at stop lights and idling. It's much improved now but not perfect. I have not done an intake valve cleaning yet though and that can cause rough idle as well. Overall it's drastically improved though.

How much oil is your car consuming? Do you have a high amount of knock retard?

Last I checked I did not have any retardation on all cyln, and oil consumption is very low (but I dont drive a lot). So for me, its probably not worth doing anything yet, though I consider it preventive maintenance. Cleaning your intake valve will make your idle better, and the car will pull harder, you will feel it.

[Waffles_s4]

My intake valves had quite a bit of carbon before the cleaning, so am pretty sure some of that made it over time to the rings, which is why I think it wont hurt to do the piston soak once every 50,000KM or so.

Did you follow a How-to or video?

[Nillious]

I originally had seen the eurotrash videos on YouTube and honestly thought there's no way it's going to help. I figured at my extreme oil consumption it needed a rebuild anyway so I figured I'd try it. The amount of carbon in my oil afterwards was extreme. The B12 really did work and it's not be like I thought.

I have driven a thousand miles since and oil level is still on max. I would have seized my engine if I drove that far before the soak without adding oil. The mmi has about eight notches in the oil level if I remember correctly. At this rate it seems I should go at least 5k on a qt probably farther. From 400 miles a qt I'd say it certainly worked.

If you don't have oil consumption I wouldn't do it yet. Obviously solvents and free bits of carbon getting in your oil is not a good thing. I just keep your change interval short and that should keep you in good shape. If you want to do it for maintenance that's up to you.

[Fresh.S4]

link to which crank tool you used?

[Nillious]

I grabbed the outer ridge of the supercharger pulley with some big channel locks. I put some pieces of adhesive backed rubber foam pieces in the teeth of the pliers so I didn't scratch up the pulley. It turns very easy with the plugs out. You only need to move it about a half revolution to lower the high pistons for the second half of the soak. Turn in very small increments so you don't snag the edge of the belt when turning. You could probably grab the crank pulley by had but I have bear paws for hands so I just did it from the top with the pliers.

Make sure you pull out the solvent before you rotate the engine or you could push push the solvent into the exhaust manifolds or if it's on compression stroke you won't be able to turn it. You'll need to refill the cylinders after for the second half of the soak. I also checked them periodically and added as needed if it drained down.

[Waffles_s4]

basically pull plugs. Pour in enough B12 to cover the pistons. Some will be higher than others so you'll need to rotate the engine after 12 hrs so you can cover them in the second half of the 24 hrs. Have a borescope so you can look to see if they are covered. After your done have a suction tool to remov remaining solvent. A lot will drain into your oil. Have a way to clear codes. The car will misfire and hide cylinders when it clearing out the solvent.

Once the ecu hides a cylinder it won't come back until after a restart. Good idea to have a jump pack as well Incase your battery gets low trying to restart.

Run the engine at about 1500 for a few minutes. Give it time for the oil filter to catch the carbon that will be in your oil. After about getting it up to temp and the engine is running smoothly do an oil change using the drain plug on the pan. You want drain the pan fully so if you use an oil extractor skip that and do a full drain out of the pan. Pull filter and wipe out the filter housing. Mine had tons of black shit in it. Pour some oil through the housing to flush down any remaining contaminated oil. Pour oil through the center feed tube of the housing to flush that part as well. See my above photos and read through as a lot of this had photos.

Refill with new filter and run for five hundred miles. Then change oil and filter again then you should be good to go back to 5k changes.

Read over my original post as there are other details like plugs and filters you can use to save money. Your going to cake your plugs in burnt carbon so you will want new ones when you are done.

Just noticed your reply, thanks!

After the first 12 hours, I think I would empty the first batch, rotate the engine, and then fill again the pistons which were at the top or near the top...

I would also dump the oil in the pan once the 24 hours have passed, because I would not want to run the engine with that oil. I would put some cheap oil back in, start the car for 5-15 min or so, clean or replace the oil filter, and stop the car. Flush the oil out, put back fresh synthetic oil, and then drive for couple hundred miles, do oil change + filter change again. That way, no crap will be floating around the engine. Its only an extra $100 or so, but worth it imo. Thats what I did with the intake valves at the time.