CTS K04 (CTS-TR-1070): a cautionary tale

[EA888timebomb]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Sharing in the spirit of goodwill to fellow enthusiasts. I have a 2013 B8.5 A4 with ~140k miles with an APR stage 1 tune for the last ~100k. In a minimum effort attempt to resolve a P0299 underboost and P0499 catalytic efficiency code (and also to get rid of the factory cat) I purchased a CTS HFC. During this installation I discovered the real reason for the P0299 code was a loose wastegate (the ineptitude of the OE design baffles me), as well as a crack in the turbo housing and excessive side play in the turbine. As such, after not a whole lot of research due to a compressed schedule, I purchased a CTS K04 (CTS-TR-1070) from ECS for $1500 because a) it was cheaper than an OE turbo and b) ‘mo power baby! And thus our story begins. I couldn't get the forum image attachment tool working so here is an imgur link to an album of relevant photos.

Now, as I’m sure many of you are aware a turbo job on these cars can be a long and tedious process that will test your patience and mechanical skills, so I was happy to have my father to help. We are both engineers and not lacking in mechanical ability, but neither turn wrenches for a living (anymore). Evidently, Audi did not design this car to be serviced with the engine in the car. Half a dozen bolts are so difficult to get to they require contorting your hands and an assortment of low profile bits, ratcheting wrenches, universal joints, etc. For example, we had triple squares that had bits fitted to sockets. These were found to be too long. Hence we used the bit alone with a 10 mm ratcheting box end fit over the bit to be able to work in tight spaces. Stubby type triple square bits may have made life a lot easier.

As my mother always says, best to start off with something positive. This turbo still spools quickly, has plenty of power, and is great value for money in terms of performance. This car should come with a K04 from factory. Obviously I can’t speak to the longevity of the CTS turbo but I have had no performance or reliability issues in the short time it’s been installed.

With that said, first impressions were not good. Upon opening the box, (packaged well, good job ECS) I discovered a badly kinked hose from N75 valve to the wastegate actuator. This carelessness in assembly could’ve been prevented by using a longer and/or stiffer hose. The hoses do not seem to be of poor quality, but are significantly softer than the factory hoses which lends itself to kinking. After emailing ECS support and receiving no reply (still no reply 4 days later, bad job ECS), we went and got some fuel line hose to substitute, replacing the PITA ear clamps with hose clamps. Unsure the unbranded N75 valve was good to go, we considered swapping with the original, but decided against it considering the original had 140k miles on it.

After the disappointment with the hoses, the instructions we found just about useless, lacking detail and what steps are included don’t seem to follow reality. No torque specifications are provided. I found an FCPEuro video of replacing a turbo which was much more thorough. The instructions did include a rather humorous final step of essentially “put everything back”. There is also no mention of using a turbo oil additive in the instructions which is prudent.

It was at this point we discovered the CTS kit did not include the requisite number of gaskets, washers, or o-rings to reinstall the lines to the engine block. Lesson learned; inventory all parts of a “kit” when purchasing.

The design of the CTS turbo also requires modification of factory components. The oil inlet on the turbo casting lacks the raised boss present on the OE turbo, causing the line to be out of place. This necessitates a modification of the bracket holding the oil line to the coolant line to avoid straining the lines. Additionally, the CTS turbo lacks a mounting hole for the bracket securing the coolant line by the timing chain cover. This later caused a problem as the line was slightly out of position necessitating a perilous repositioning of the line and retightening of the banjo bolt facing the block with the turbo installed.

Speaking of installing the turbo, replacement lower manifold nuts were not supplied. The top manifold nuts were not flanged like the OE. The middle forward lower manifold nut was very difficult to tighten as the CTS casting is different than original and the waste gate actuator rod location makes it difficult to get a wrench or socket on the nut.

We used the evac tool to fill the cooling system. Could only pull 12 inHg, hence a leak somewhere. Sure enough the outboard coolant connection on turbo, the one with the copper "spacer washer", was leaking despite being properly cleaned and torqued. Fortunately, it’s relatively easy to get to this banjo bolt. After removing the banjo bolt washers, annealing them, and reinstalling this time with a very thin coat of gasket sealant, we had no more leaks. At some point we had tried to call CTS customer service for advice, only to discover (despite multiple attempts) their phone will ring for a few minutes after selecting option 1 before playing a busy signal. Helpful. I believe this is still the case as of today so by all means someone let me know if you’ve been able to get ahold of them by phone.

All in all, while the installation and my first impressions of the turbo and CTS itself were poor, it appears to be holding up so far and a K04 with APR stage 3 is certainly a great improvement to the B8.5 platform. Thank you for coming to my ted talk. If you’ve made it this far, congratulations, and I would love to know if the CTS N75 valve is any good, or how the Rev9 ICK-085 FMIC compares to the ECS Luft-Technik FMIC.

TLDR: The CTS K04 itself appears to be good value for money but despite the way it is advertised is in no way a drop in ‘kit’ solution and requires modification and additional parts and hardware to complete the job; a problem worsened by lackluster instructions and support. Questionable quality control and design choices leave doubt for the longevity of the product.

If you order this "kit" you will ADDITIONALLY need:
-Coolant line washers for banjo bolt (N0138149)
-Oil line gasket (058145757C)
-Oil line o-ring (N90067202)
-Manifold Nuts with flange (N91130801)
-Manifold studs (depending how busted your old ones are) (N0145555)

[DanielHamilton]

I don't have this turbo myself, so take it all with that in mind. But:

1. It's supposed to come with all of that hardware, per the photos on CTS's website.

2. You shouldn't have to remove/reinstall the lower nuts at all. The wedge-shaped plates are meant to stay on the head, and after removing the top stud nuts, you should be able to lever the turbo out and up. Then the new one is meant to be wedged in by the new top nuts. The factory manual describes this pretty well. With memories of the nightmare of getting to the lower manifold nuts on a B5 1.8T, the elegance of this solution is incredibly appreciated.

3. On the CTS website it does say "Bracket on the factory cooling line may require trimming on some models."

I'd really follow through on getting in touch with ECS about the missing hardware. Try by phone or their live chat. In my experience they are always willing to go 150% to make things right when you're dissatisfied.

[EA888timebomb]

I don't have this turbo myself, so take it all with that in mind. But:

1. It's supposed to come with all of that hardware, per the photos on CTS's website.

As stated in the OP there was no missing hardware, you need additional hardware than what comes with the turbo. Everything you see pictured on the website pics is insufficient to reinstall the lines. And the provided manifold bolts are not flanged which I elected (and would strongly suggest) to replace. VAG engineers didn’t spec flanged nuts for no reason. Flanged nuts are more resistant to vibration having additional holding power, and obviously more even load distribution.

2. You shouldn't have to remove/reinstall the lower nuts at all. The wedge-shaped plates are meant to stay on the head, and after removing the top stud nuts, you should be able to lever the turbo out and up. Then the new one is meant to be wedged in by the new top nuts. The factory manual describes this pretty well. With memories of the nightmare of getting to the lower manifold nuts on a B5 1.8T, the elegance of this solution is incredibly appreciated.

I need to acquire a factory manual… but yes, I’m aware that is how you’re “supposed” to remove the manifold, however there was enough corrosion on my manifold to make that impossible. I lightly hammered on it with a piece of wood to try to break it free but I did not dare go harder in fear of damaging the aluminum head if I tried to lever it out. After cleaning up everything and going to install the new turbo I replaced the wedges and torqued them to spec, but it was not possible to get the manifold into place with them installed all the way, even with persuasion. I needed to back the nuts off several rotations to wedge the manifold in and then retighten. Genuinely no idea how people do that without undoing the lower manifold bolts.

3. On the CTS website it does say "Bracket on the factory cooling line may require trimming on some models."

CTS does state the water line bracket may need to be “trimmed”, but offers no further explanation. Also, the bracket needing modification is the oil line, not the water line (Although the coolant line also connects there but doesn’t need to be modded because it has a flexible segment). I’m not knocking them for requiring a bit of modification, and filing or dremeling a bracket is no trouble at all, but clearly communicating the required mods would be prudent as some knuckleheads might try to just crank down the poor banjo bolt enough to contort the line into place.

I'd really follow through on getting in touch with ECS about the missing hardware. Try by phone or their live chat. In my experience they are always willing to go 150% to make things right when you're dissatisfied.

Yea I haven’t had a problem with ECS before, just sharing my experience. I don’t really know what kind of resolution they would offer tbh it’s not like I’m going to return the thing and I already fixed everything at my own expense. Seems more CTS’s problem than ECS’s.

[boomtime]

I installed this kit on my B8.5 without much trouble. If you think any other turbo replacement like $3500 for the APR K04 or $1500+ for stock K03 (ihi) would have been easier… then your wrong, these turbos are all about the same size, the internals are only slightly different. I did notice the tight vacuum hose and as mentioned the bracket doesn't match up, I bolted them together so they didn't rattle. I opted to replace both supply and return lines, both oil and coolant anyway to prevent premature failure of the new K04 due to possible buildup and restriction in the old lines.

You should have bought directly from CTS, my kit included all the gaskets when purchased direct and lacked nothing.

Although your original post is quite long, I would chalk up most of your trouble to inexperience and lacking the proper tools. From my experience being an engineer does not automatically make someone a mechanic. I hope you don't take it personally. Also you dont need to draw vacuum to refill the coolant, just jack up the front end real high to burp the air from the heater core when refilling the coolant.
I am glad you succeeded in the end.

[bb-tt]

I installed this kit on my B8.5 without much trouble. If you think any other turbo replacement like $3500 for the APR K04 or $1500+ for stock K03 (ihi) would have been easier… then your wrong, these turbos are all about the same size, the internals are only slightly different. I did notice the tight vacuum hose and as mentioned the bracket doesn't match up, I bolted them together so they didn't rattle. I opted to replace both supply and return lines, both oil and coolant anyway to prevent premature failure of the new K04 due to possible buildup and restriction in the old lines.

You should have bought directly from CTS, my kit included all the gaskets when purchased direct and lacked nothing.

Although your original post is quite long, I would chalk up most of your trouble to inexperience and lacking the proper tools. From my experience being an engineer does not automatically make someone a mechanic. I hope you don't take it personally. Also you dont need to draw vacuum to refill the coolant, just jack up the front end real high to burp the air from the heater core when refilling the coolant.
I am glad you succeeded in the end.

cant speak to the 1070 but agree that swapping the turbo on the b8 is not that difficult. I can do it in a bout an hour now, thought eary said they were doing it in 30 minutes. To be fair have had it on and off numerous times and first time took like 4ish hours as i was figuring it all out. There are plenty of DIY guides out there if you search.

[EA888timebomb]

I installed this kit on my B8.5 without much trouble. If you think any other turbo replacement like $3500 for the APR K04 or $1500+ for stock K03 (ihi) would have been easier… then your wrong, these turbos are all about the same size, the internals are only slightly different. I did notice the tight vacuum hose and as mentioned the bracket doesn't match up, I bolted them together so they didn't rattle. I opted to replace both supply and return lines, both oil and coolant anyway to prevent premature failure of the new K04 due to possible buildup and restriction in the old lines.

Nowhere in the post was it asserted that an APR or stock kit would have been easier. My difficulties due to inexperience has nothing to do with my complaints about CTS.
Out of curiosity what intercooler are you running on your 8.5?

You should have bought directly from CTS, my kit included all the gaskets when purchased direct and lacked nothing.

I've always had good luck with ECS and time was of the essence. I don't believe CTS offers overnight shipping options. Like I said, my kit did not lack anything it was stated to have. Everything in the product pictures was in the kit, there are just not enough (or the correct) parts in the kit to actually complete the job.

Although your original post is quite long, I would chalk up most of your trouble to inexperience and lacking the proper tools. From my experience being an engineer does not automatically make someone a mechanic. I hope you don't take it personally. Also you dont need to draw vacuum to refill the coolant, just jack up the front end real high to burp the air from the heater core when refilling the coolant.
I am glad you succeeded in the end.

You're absolutely right, thus my comment that we don't turn wrenches for a living. To your point, [design] engineers should spend more time talking to machinists, assemblers, and downstream mechanics and the like to design well thought out, repairable products. I hope my post did not come off as blaming CTS for my inexperience, that was a certainly a contributing factor in my frustration but THAT is not attributable to CTS at all.
As for the coolant, you may be right but I am not sure where all the coolant passages in these engines are and was not going to take the time to make sure there wasn't an air lock somewhere so just decided to get a vacuum kit. Glad I did, because otherwise I probably wouldn't have found that coolant leak until starting the car.

cant speak to the 1070 but agree that swapping the turbo on the b8 is not that difficult. I can do it in a bout an hour now, thought eary said they were doing it in 30 minutes. To be fair have had it on and off numerous times and first time took like 4ish hours as i was figuring it all out. There are plenty of DIY guides out there if you search.

Wow, I can't imagine how you accomplish that; I think it took an hour just to get one rusty nut off while trying to save the stud. Good thing my DIY shade tree shop rate is cheap. I'd imagine every nut not being seized and having the requisite low profile tools helps a lot lol