S-tronic issues DL501

[wpc96]

Hi friends,

The car is a 2013 A6 C7 3.0TDI 245hp, S tronic.

I had some issues with the transmission (losts odd gears and harsh shifting, no reverse gear, gearbox fault errors on the dash, etc).

We've replaced the clutch (OEM clutch, new oil and filters) and most of the issues are gone now, but some of them still persist and they annoy me so much.

Clearly needs more to be done. Just to mention - no fault codes now, no dash errors.

The issues:

1. When coming to a complete stop (2-1) there is a annoying kick. As far as I investigated the issue on my side, this doesn't happen when the transmission fluid is cold. Also doesn't happen when the transmission fluid is hot. 😁 Happens more like when the transmission fluid temp. is between 60-85 degrees. Very strange to me.

For example if I get into the car early in the morning when there is no traffic and drive it for the first 10-20 minutes without coming to a full stop (making the oil temp. 80-85C+), I would never feel the kick for that "driving session".

2. There is a delayed first and reverse gear engagement from "P" (also doing from R to D and vice versa). For example I put the car in "P" then immediately try to put in "D" - wouldn't engage immediately, will need 1-2 seconds. Sometimes even more. This also doesn't happen when transmission is cold. Doesn't happen all the time. One thing worth mentioning is that I noticed sometimes that there is a delay on the dash where "D1" is displayed. For example when I switch from P to D, dash indicator goes like P - D (second delay) - D1.

The car is going through all the basic settings adaptation expect "Clutch valve adaptation". The adaptation starts, car revs for a 10-15 seconds or so and says "Aborted due to safety reasons.". (Oil temp. between 40-60C, parking brake on). This was an issue before the clutch replacement too and still persists now.

Maybe I need a mechatronic repair? New gaskets? Solenoids?

Thank you so much in advance I would be happy if you share your thoughts.

[Avantly]

Did you only replace the clutch pack or did you go through the mechatronic/valve unit as well?

[wpc96]

Hi, thanks for the reply. Only the clutch pack is replaced for now. Mechatronic not removed at all.

[Avantly]

Well, I suppose it depends on how many miles you have on this thing (and what previous scheduled maintenance looked like) but in my limited experience with this transmission (and based on everything I've read) that mechatronic/valve unit is the source of a large portion of the driveability complaints and malfunctions with this transmission. Mak Trans (in Poland I think?) offers rebuilt mechatronic units with a core charge and when I finally get to taking my DL501 apart I will likely order one from them. One interesting video I watched (I believe it was from Mak) showed how the plastic bushing inside the VAG DCT transmission solenoids wear out, and these guys actually disassemble the solenoid, cut a new bushing, install it and press the solenoid back together. Very slick, especially when considering how much new replacement solenoids cost.

[Leistune]

We have resolved this issue on the 4.0T.

If you would like, we could do the same for the 3.0TDI. I could port over the code changes made for the 4.0t DL501 software to the 3.0 TDI software.

Someone left us a review in this forum about it.

[MyDimeIsUp]

For clutch pack adaptions you have to have the parking brake on and have your foot on the brake. You cannot release the brake pedal until the adaptation is done, at leat that was what I had to do for ZF 8

[Avantly]

We have resolved this issue on the 4.0T.

If you would like, we could do the same for the 3.0TDI. I could port over the code changes made for the 4.0t DL501 software to the 3.0 TDI software.

Someone left us a review in this forum about it.

But what about condition of the mechatronic unit/valve body etc. You should never try to tune out a failure. The DL501 in general behaves quite well if it is in good repair. OP seems to indicate that he replaced the clutch pack but makes no mention of the mechatronic/valve body, this should be addressed before attempting any software work.

[Leistune]

The software work isn’t an attempt.

It’s solved.

We’ve seen a whole lot of money wasted on hardware repairs that were totally and utterly unnecessary.

[Avantly]

The software work isn’t an attempt.

It’s solved.

We’ve seen a whole lot of money wasted on hardware repairs that were totally and utterly unnecessary.

What is your experience with the mechanical repair of the S-tronic design?

If you think that the solenoid, valve body and other common and well known mechatronic unit wear issues can be corrected with software, then you are a fool and no one should listen to you.

Mak trans and others literally has pictures of how and why the solenoids fail and how they repair them. You are not going to correct any of these wear issues in software, you might be able to mask them then it will be even more damage in the future. If you claim to be able to do so then you are just another liar trying to sell a tune.

[Leistune]

What is your experience with the mechanical repair of the S-tronic design?

If you think that the solenoid, valve body and other common and well known mechatronic unit wear issues can be corrected with software, then you are a fool and no one should listen to you.

Mak trans and others literally has pictures of how and why the solenoids fail and how they repair them. You are not going to correct any of these wear issues in software, you might be able to mask them then it will be even more damage in the future. If you claim to be able to do so then you are just another liar trying to sell a tune.

We’re excited to show you what we can do. It's not kind to call us liars, especially since we’ve proven ourselves many times before.

The launch control delay that was “impossible to overcome in software”… solved it…

Launch control in Dive, Sport, or Manual? No problem.

We’ve also created numerous other features that no one else in the industry offers.

Here’s a video of one our very unique launch control features.

https://youtube.com/shorts/TNYQd1g76...P2t7vB7JRZvcc3

Here’s a link to a review a client left on Audizine awhile ago that specifically references the issues referenced above.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Tune-Feedback

[Avantly]

We’re excited to show you what we can do. It's not kind to call us liars, especially since we’ve proven ourselves many times before.

The launch control delay that was “impossible to overcome in software”… solved it…

Launch control in Dive, Sport, or Manual? No problem.

We’ve also created numerous other features that no one else in the industry offers.

Here’s a video of one our very unique launch control features.

https://youtube.com/shorts/TNYQd1g76...P2t7vB7JRZvcc3

Here’s a link to a review a client left on Audizine awhile ago that specifically references the issues referenced above.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Tune-Feedback

Look, I'm not trying to bash your business or anything, but consider the following:

1) OP has not posted any detail on how many miles are on the DL501 - But surely if the clutch pack had to be replaced/rebuilt the odometer reading is up there.
2) The DL501 issues at higher mileage (say >100k) appaer to be quit well known with many writeups regarding them and are related to mechanical wear/pressure sensor issues/etc which are easily corrected with part/sensor rebuild/replacement.
3) Despite OP not providing any further info, and the many well known wear issues in this platform, you are making a broad statement that you can correct any issues in software. Don't you think that is a bit pretentious given the universal fact that you are not going to correct mechanical/sensor failures with software? It just makes it look like you don't care to even understand OP's situation and are just trying to sell a tune. You didn't ask a single question about OP's car. You're acting like the guys next to the eiffel tower who runs up and tries to force a flower into my hand so you can try to charge me for it.

In regards to your business:
1) You more or less don't exist online other than two registrations I could find through Godaddy, neither of which point to any physical presence nor identity. You are anonymous, unknown, and this appears to be your intent, just like these scam companies on this forum selling LED bulb retrofits with "lifetime warranty" with similarly anonymous websites and business names that don't even exist on paper in the countries they are selling in.
2) You point to a single review from a another anonymous forum member for clout.

Understand why I am highly suspicious of you? Companies like JHM, APR, MTM, etc stand behind their tunes with an actual presence, they can not disappear in a moments notice by taking down their anonymous Godaddy domain and turning off their anonymous email after their supposed tune causes catastrophic damage to the customer's car. If you are into tuning then you must be well aware of the staggering number of people who create these anonymous websites. "GPT consulting", "Integrated Engineering", "Jeets Supertune", etc. There are literally countless websites from "experienced tuners" created in the exact same manner (no physical presence, anonymous domain registrations, no real contact info other than email and throwaday SIP/IP phone numbers, broad claims of success with no actual empirical evidence worth mentioning). It has been theorized (and often proven) that these anons are simply re-selling tunes/maps/etc that they copied from someone else (Probably MTM/JHM/etc)...

What differentiates you from the competition? Who are you beyond an anonymous website with no actual contact info an a *single* review? Who even are you at all? Are you based out of Pakistan? Not even kidding. You could be anyone, anywhere. If you actually want people to take you seriously then maybe you should behave in a serious manner and represent your business in a way that doesn't make you appear to be just another random anon selling duplicated data... and not recommend a tune to correct issues that you didn't even ask questions about and are quite possibly the result of well known mechanical/sensor issues.

I am not trying to bash you, I am genuinely interested in your response.

[Leistune]

With regard to your first sentence: I don’t know that I agree.

My name is John McDonald.

You can find my “enthusiast” usernames here as Turboegt, and Kaploww.

I’m a 100% disabled combat veteran, former AH64D Apache Pilot, and Warrant Officer in the United States Army.

Been building and tuning VW’s / Audi’s since 2003. Been tuning cars since 2001.

Based out of Northern California. Currently have a small shop in Northern California that I use for R&D that is not open to the public, and am in the process of securing a larger facility.

My work is very well known in the 4.0t community as an innovator. I was the first (that I’m aware of) to run full E85 on the 4.0t, before Dynospectrum was a thing with software I wrote from scratch.

Was one of the pioneers of the “OEM parts” B5 4.2 swap.

I have never copied anyone else’s calibrations, and slapped my name on it. That is a very ugly accusation to even allude to.

Feel free to follow us on our YouTube channel:

The Manley Garage

Or our Facebook, and Instagram pages:

@Leistune

[Leistune]

Here’s an Audi RS7 I tuned on Full E85 in 2019.

GTX3071R Hybrids, E5LM fuel pump, and full E85 in August of 2019.

It did 770whp while riding the limits of the factory map sensors.

This was the second full E85 car I tuned on Hybrid turbos.

[Alabama]

If you actually want people to take you seriously then maybe you should behave in a serious manner and represent your business in a way that doesn't make you appear to be just another random anon selling duplicated data.

For what it's worth, Leistune is on the merchant list of AZ supporting vendors. Presumably the AZ moderators perform some due diligence before accepting the vendor's money. Also, kaploww used to be a fairly active poster in the 4.0 forum. Some of the California AZ members may know him personally.

[Avantly]

Now, John has identified himself, and I respect that. So he is not afraid to reveal who he is. I think I was wrong.

Liestune, aka John, so it looks like maybe you have pissed some people off in the past, it happens to all of us and the saying "you can't please everyone" is absolutely true. I am not going to make any immediate assumptions about you based on their comments simply because I have been bashed in the past by trash-level customers who created their own problems, blamed me for them, and made me regret serving them in the first place.
This statement does not imply allegiance to either side, I am neutral, but it's very interesting to me that you are willing to reveal who you are, and as I said before, I respect that. As far as the "ugly" theorizing about copying tunes, surely you must know what I am talking about - You must be a member of these various tuning forums from the EU and UK? It has been proven on those forums that many of these websites claiming to sell "original tunes" over the internet are simply selling copied work that they don't even understand and therefore cannot adequately support if there are problems, hence why they use the anon website concept in the first place. I was only theorizing this due to your website appearing to fit the "anon" model (which now, it sort of doesn't, since you have readily revealed who you are). So, please don't take offense to that statement as you've already negated any possible application to you.

General FYI for anyone reading, IMHO there is nothing wrong with reverse engineering someone else's work and learning from it. If Liestune states that he is not copying others work while also revealing his true identity, at this point I will take his word for that, and I absolutely respect anyone who is putting effort into their own creations.

I mean absolutely no distrespect to AZ admins whatsoever with this comment, and this comment is not really directed at Liestune but rather at the commenter regarding AZ vetting vendors - I think there are definitely some sketchy vendors on here. The one selling chinesium LED bulbs with "lifetime warranty" from an anon website comes to mind - What does a "lifetime warranty" even mean when you can buy several of the same bulb on aliexpress for the same price? Anyway no disrespect to AZ as I really appreciate that this site seems to be one of the few left that is independently owned and hasn't sold out to some POS anti-citizen corporate entity.

[Stubek]

Keep it on the topic of the OP's repairs. If you want to discuss a specific tune, start a thread for it.

[Avantly]

Sorry Stubek, I think I started it.

It would be interesting to hear from OP what the results are of an adaptation, do all adaptations complete without errors and what are the adapted values. I suspect that would give a clue as to where the issue lies? There have been many posts on this both related to and not related to tunes.

[wpc96]

Hello guys,

I see a lot of new comments, thank you so much. We installed solenoid kit (N436, N440) and main pressure solenoid. New gaskets and o-rings. New oil and filters...

The second issue is now gone, but 2-1 kick is there in a little different way. Adaptations are going well, but "Clutch valve calibration" is still exiting after 30-40 seconds of running saying "Aborted due to safety reasons".

And here is it now: after adaptations the transmission is working pretty nicely, 2-1 kick is also gone for the first few hours of driving. But then appears again. 😁

So the conclusion is after basic settings adaptation everything seems to be fine, but after driving a little the issue come back...

Maybe really a software issue?

[ericw.]

2-1 kick is a common complaint, it's totally normal. It can be fixed with software though. Both JHM and APR have fixed this in their TCU tunes.

JHM is where a lot of people are going today since they offer more features than most and customization when requested. They're a longtime established company with top rate customer service staff.

[wpc96]

Hi! Happy to hear that. I'm giving up a little, because I did almost a transmission rebuild (new clutch, solenoids, gaskets) and this persists... I'm located in east Europe and wondering who can help me with fixing the software...

[RedSox S315]

Hi! Happy to hear that. I'm giving up a little, because I did almost a transmission rebuild (new clutch, solenoids, gaskets) and this persists... I'm located in east Europe and wondering who can help me with fixing the software...

I currently have Leistune TCU and my 2-1 kick is completely gone. I left a review for it, it was mentioned earlier but here is the link:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=989481

Another user has also left a review for JHM, stating that also helped with 2-1 kick.

I am not pushing any single tune to anyone, but speaking from my experiences. APR did nothing for me for 2-1 kick. I ran APR ECU & TCU for almost 30,000 miles.

2-1 kick is a common complaint, it's totally normal. It can be fixed with software though. Both JHM and APR have fixed this in their TCU tunes.

JHM is where a lot of people are going today since they offer more features than most and customization when requested. They're a longtime established company with top rate customer service staff.

I can’t speak for JHM TCU tune since I have not tried it but I did have APR TCU tune and that did NOT fix my 2-1 kick at all.

OP, as for clutch adaptation - that may only be a temporary fix. I did them multiple times but it only lasted for a couple hundred miles, if that.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[ericw.]

I currently have Leistune TCU and my 2-1 kick is completely gone. I left a review for it, it was mentioned earlier but here is the link:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=989481

Another user has also left a review for JHM, stating that also helped with 2-1 kick.

I am not pushing any single tune to anyone, but speaking from my experiences. APR did nothing for me for 2-1 kick. I ran APR ECU & TCU for almost 30,000 miles.



I can’t speak for JHM TCU tune since I have not tried it but I did have APR TCU tune and that did NOT fix my 2-1 kick at all.

OP, as for clutch adaptation - that may only be a temporary fix. I did them multiple times but it only lasted for a couple hundred miles, if that.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

I've never had the 2-1 kick but I know there are numerous people who did and have confirmed it's resolved with the JHM TCU. JHM is also familiar and will provide any necessary info, just call them during business hours or email them. It's nice to work with a company that has a staff of people to pick up the phone and reply to emails.

I've had 3 different ECU and TCU tunes. JHM is the most refined and offer the best service from my experience.

[Leistune]

I was unaware JHM had solved the 2-1 bumping issue. It’s a pretty unique feature, and I didn’t see it listed on their site.

They should update that for sure. It would definitely help them get more calibrations out the door.

There’s been a lot of clients that have come to me specifically to help them solve this issue.

[wpc96]

I was unaware JHM had solved the 2-1 bumping issue. It’s a pretty unique feature, and I didn’t see it listed on their site.

They should update that for sure. It would definitely help them get more calibrations out the door.

There’s been a lot of clients that have come to me specifically to help them solve this issue.

Hi sir,

How I can get this done, I'm located in Europe...

Thanks!

[Leistune]

It super easy.

You head to our website, Leistune.com.

Purchase our DL501 software, we ship you a cable, if you already have one it takes a little off the price, and flash at home.

We provide detailed instructions, DIY videos, and of course I am always happy to help.

[Botbasher]

we ship you a cable, if you already have one it takes a little off the price

Is the cable VIN locked?? I am so tired of buying cables for one time uses. Have a whole drawer full after years of cars and tuning!

KS

[Leistune]

It is not.

Your username and password for the server are.

[ericw.]

I was unaware JHM had solved the 2-1 bumping issue. It’s a pretty unique feature, and I didn’t see it listed on their site.

They should update that for sure. It would definitely help them get more calibrations out the door.

There’s been a lot of clients that have come to me specifically to help them solve this issue.

They actually have been doing it since the beginning. They also don't advertise that they remove the launch limiter but they do that too. Every feature of their TCU is customizable and they'll check logs and adjust a person's tune if that's necessary, if somebody has a unique build. So while it is an "off-the-shelf" (OTS) tune for most people with a standard list of mods, it doesn't necessarily need be OTS.

A bunch of the long time enthusiasts in the community have switched to JHM's TCU and I see many of them also recommending JHM through various groups that I observe.

[KFT2]

Hello guys,

I see a lot of new comments, thank you so much. We installed solenoid kit (N436, N440) and main pressure solenoid. New gaskets and o-rings. New oil and filters...

The second issue is now gone, but 2-1 kick is there in a little different way. Adaptations are going well, but "Clutch valve calibration" is still exiting after 30-40 seconds of running saying "Aborted due to safety reasons".

And here is it now: after adaptations the transmission is working pretty nicely, 2-1 kick is also gone for the first few hours of driving. But then appears again. 😁

So the conclusion is after basic settings adaptation everything seems to be fine, but after driving a little the issue come back...

Maybe really a software issue?

I had a 2-1 kick that eventually got rough enough that it would trigger a transmission clutch fault that would disable my odd gears until I restarted the car or cleared the fault. Tried new solenoids, new circuit board, filters, etc, none resolved it. One day I came across this TSB:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...18422-9999.pdf

The TSB states new trans software is recommended for 2013 to 2015 S6 and S7 with this concern. I have a 2013 S7, so figured it wouldn't hurt to give it a try. Had the dealer perform the software update to the transmission and sure enough it's been completed resolved. No more kick into first gear coming to a stop. Car was borderline underivable prior, with anxiety coming into a stop if I would lose partial transmission function. It's been absolutely solid since, no rough kick down, no rpm flare coming to a stop. I imagine that the updated software comes from the factory on 2016+ C7's which is why the TSB only lists 2013-2015. It doesn't surprise me that some TCU tunes also resolve this problem. It is most definitely something that software corrected for me.

[Leistune]

That TSB references software versions older than:

Version 7 for the 2014 & 2015, and Version 13 for the 2013’s.

I can confirm that Version 7, and Version 13 does not fix the issue for all, and there has since been another revision by Audi to Version 14 for the 2013’s.

While it resolves the issue for some, it does not resolve it for all.

It’s kind of wild that they haven’t figured this out yet.

It’s a relatively straight forward fix.

[Botbasher]

That TSB references software versions older than:

Version 7 for the 2014 & 2015, and Version 13 for the 2013’s.

I can confirm that Version 7, and Version 13 does not fix the issue for all, and there has since been another revision by Audi to Version 14 for the 2013’s.

While it resolves the issue for some, it does not resolve it for all.

It’s kind of wild that they haven’t figured this out yet.

It’s a relatively straight forward fix.

Does applying a TCU Tune effectivly update the firmware for the trans... or is that something that only the Mothership can do? Ive got a 14 S6 with a full factory service record, so I suspect it's been updated but I don't know how to check.

Cheers,

KS

[Leistune]

Yes it does.

All of our software is written on the most recently released software version released by VAG.

For instance:

2013 is all on version 14
2014-2015 is all on version 7
2016-2018 is all on version 7

If you are behind on your software version.

Let’s say you have a 2013 that is on version 2.

Our server will update you from version 2 to version 14, and simultaneously apply the performance updates as well.

You can check your version with a tool like the VCDS by looking at the top level screen for the transmission control module.

It will display a number that looks like:

0001
0002
…
0014

That is the actual software version that you are on.

[mrdouble99]

the trans by it self does not down shift from 2 to 1, so you guy's are talking about someone doing it in manual mode ?

[Leistune]

the trans by it self does not down shift from 2 to 1, so you guy's are talking about someone doing it in manual mode ?

We rewrite the software with numerous performance and drivability enhancements.

[Botbasher]

We rewrite the software with numerous performance and drivability enhancements.

Yes... from what I have read, a "stock" TCU will not allow you to choose 1st at anything more than stopped in manual. In manual, I can currently choose 1st at any speed and "send it"!

Is that stock behavior or indicative of a TCU tune?

Thanks!

KS

[Avantly]

With no tune I can downshift to 1st while moving with no problem - The only limitation being that it obviously won't shift to 1st if ground speed is too high for 1st gear.

[Botbasher]

With no tune I can downshift to 1st while moving with no problem - The only limitation being that it obviously won't shift to 1st if ground speed is too high for 1st gear.

But what's too high? I can do it at speeds that hit redline without issue. In my TipTronic in my VW Gli I could not do it at anything that was greater than anything that would hit 3k rpm, so that's my comparison. That and I read that the OEM DL501 would not shift to 1st at anything much above 10mph.

Can you shift into 1st at 40mph? 30mph? What is the OEM limit? I need a baseline from an OEM source to try it against my abilities.

Thanks!

KS

[Leistune]

Factory redline minus 2 or 3 hundred RPM = the limit when in manual mode.

Can’t remember exactly.

[Avantly]

Factory redline minus 2 or 3 hundred RPM = the limit when in manual mode.

Can’t remember exactly.

That sounds about right. I don't know why anyone would expect a downshift at any speed that would result in bent/broken valve springs. I am rather familiar with the shift points of the car and have never over-revved it with 2-1 downshift though it seems quite comfortable with getting very near red line with that downshft.

[Botbasher]

That sounds about right. I don't know why anyone would expect a downshift at any speed that would result in bent/broken valve springs.

Oh... it wasn't intentional. I found this out when I was slowing down to stop at a light and somehow I managed to hit the downshift button 2x taking it from 3rd to 2nd to 1st at a much higher speed than I would have ever allowed normally. Wondering WTF was going on, I experimented a couple times and, as Leistune said, found I could shift into 1st at almost any speed.

And as you mentioned, it's comfortable doing it, but I am not!! I like the inside parts staying inside the block!!

I only ask because I have read at several sources that the DL501, in OEM tune, would not shift into 1st unless nearly stopped. TCU tunes changed this to allow it at any speed.

Wondering if I had a TCU tune already installed into the car... I ask about this, but it seems that the other sources are incorrect and I simply have a normally tuned DL501.

Good to know, but more expensive than I was hoping! ;o)

Cheers,

KS