I Test Drove A BMW M3 Competition Today. I Still Prefer My RS5 Competition.

[ragy17001]

I test drove a G80 M3 Competition today out of curiosity and compared It to my RS5 Competition that I?ve owned for 4 Months. Here are my biggest takeaways:

Power/Speed: Even though the RS5 comp is quicker than the Non-Comp RS5, The M3 Sedan is still the faster machine. I've looked into the numbers and found that M3 Sedans Run 100 to 200 in about ~7.8 to 8.1 Seconds while my RS5 Comp Sportback does that sprint in ~9.14 Seconds. Interestingly, that's as quick as the BMW M3 Touring (the heaviest version of the M3). The fastest version of the RS5 would be the RS5 Competition Coupe which I've seen run a 8.85 100 to 200 on AutomanTV. This makes sense since it's ~100 lbs lighter than my RS5 Sportback. Regardless, both the BMW and Audi are quick cars, but the M3 was faster and felt like it had more torque when you punched it.

Suspension: This part was interesting. At this point a lot of people know that the M3 and RS5 Comp are both very capable cars but it surprised me just how much better and smoother the RS5 comp suspension was versus the BMWs. The M3 felt stiffer and less refined on the roads I drove it on and the sales guy that drove with me echoed the same thought. My Comp is lowered to its minimum ride height and It is slammed to the ground and it handled corners just as well as the M3 but was much more supple and compliant. It made the whole experience a lot more enjoyable since the car wasn't jittering and fidgeting around as much as the M3. The best way I've seen this described is by throttle house in their RS5 Competition review: "It constantly wants to kick the rear out (the BMW M3), and compared to the RS5 (comp) its stiff ride meant that it just never settled. The Audi is far more sophisticated in high speed and low speed corners."

Looks: This is subjective and will vary person to person but I did want to mention some of the exterior differences. As standard, the RS5 Comp comes with all the carbon bits and those extremely nice Y spoke lightweight wheels. You also get Coilovers that can be adjusted to make the car look extremely low with perfect fitment. There's also the fact that the earlier competition models (like mine) got massive carbon ceramic brakes that make the car look even more imposing. It's super easy to make the RS5 look like a more aesthetic car. You could do the same to the M3 but you'd have to spend quite a bit more $$$ to get the same effect.

Verdict: The M3 is a nice package and I wouldn't mind having one in my garage. I see it as the benchmark in this segment while the RS5 Comp is the super compelling and competent alternative for Audi fans like me. I still prefer My RS5 Comp because to me it feels like a more special car. I cannot emphasize enough how incredible it is to walk up to the car every day and just stare at its beauty. Then the experience gets even better once you get behind the wheel. Well done Audi and well done BMW.

IMG_7407.jpg

[VVG]

The M3/4 have always been a little more hard edged compared to the Audi equivalent. That's fine by me. My RS5 SB is my daily driver. I have my Porsche for a pure toy and the feel of that car is just in a different league entirely. That being said, if I didn't have the Porsche, I would be perfectly content with my 2022 (non-comp) RS5 as an only car. It is more than capable enough and, as mentioned, is absolutely stunning in its design. In fact, to my eyes, even in its 6th year, I think the RS5 SB is the best looking 4-door sedan in production today.

[jdm-v35]

I absolutely love the way that the RS5 looks, and I think Audi did a good job on appearance of the B9's in general. It will not be outdated for a long time and it is a car I plan to keep forever as I have never enjoyed a car so much in every facet from looks to driving etc.

The G8x M3/4 would probably perform better on a track but at the cost of daily driving comfort and raw harshness, though they have really stepped up their interior game in comparison to the cheap plastics of the F8x cars. I still don't like the front grill but with different inserts it can look better.

How did the exhaust sound compared to the RS5 when you open it up?

[Burrcold]

This is why there is no one car that fits everyone's taste or liking. I loved my B9 and B9.5 RS5 but the M3 Competition xDrive just does everything better in my opinion (not trying to start a bashing war, this is obviously just my opinion since I bought one). I'm also comparing to road use since I do very little tracking of my cars.

[Z06Corey]

M3 wins for me with an available stick (not the comp)

[ragy17001]

I absolutely love the way that the RS5 looks, and I think Audi did a good job on appearance of the B9's in general. It will not be outdated for a long time and it is a car I plan to keep forever as I have never enjoyed a car so much in every facet from looks to driving etc.

The G8x M3/4 would probably perform better on a track but at the cost of daily driving comfort and raw harshness, though they have really stepped up their interior game in comparison to the cheap plastics of the F8x cars. I still don't like the front grill but with different inserts it can look better.

How did the exhaust sound compared to the RS5 when you open it up?

I couldn't compare the sound of the two directly because I have a res delete on my RS5 and the M3 had a stock exhaust. What I can say is there is a TON of fake pumped in audio in the M3.

[jdm-v35]

I couldn't compare the sound of the two directly because I have a res delete on my RS5 and the M3 had a stock exhaust. What I can say is there is a TON of fake pumped in audio in the M3.

Thanks for the info. So they also use the soundaktor method. I have my soundaktor turned to 0 in my RS5 but I have a Milltek Race exhaust and cete valve controller and drive with the flaps open all the time.

[Burrcold]

Thanks for the info. So they also use the soundaktor method. I have my soundaktor turned to 0 in my RS5 but I have a Milltek Race exhaust and cete valve controller and drive with the flaps open all the time.

It's not a soundaktor on the M3, rather through the speakers (ASD - Active Sound Design). It can be completely coded out as well, or turned down (not off) in the basic iDrive settings. Most people do this and just add a mid-pipe or full exhaust.

[jdm-v35]

It's not a soundaktor on the M3, rather through the speakers (ASD - Active Sound Design). It can be completely coded out as well, or turned down (not off) in the basic iDrive settings. Most people do this and just add a mid-pipe or full exhaust.

Do you plan to code yours out? I am almost debating coding my rs5 soundaktor back in because it is so nice and quiet inside but I know its pretty loud outside, though I don't get that same effect inside. lol

[B7Quattro Pete]

Good review dude, I also like your youtube vids!

I'm looking forward to the battle between these cars when the B10 RS comes out! BMW could steal a lot of RS5 sportback sales if they bring the Touring over, it's all the rage over in the EU. I could live with that ugly mug in the better overall looking long roof design.

But then, maybe Audi wises-up and brings the RS5 Avant (formerly RS4 Avant) and with comparable horsepower. :)

[ninjamanRS5]

Performance-wise? M3/M4 takes the cake and that's not even up for debate. Daily driver car? I'd say the RS5 is the better of the two. The balance RS5s have is incredible IMO.

Funny, I dropped a lot of money to get my RS5 to 600WHP (my daily driver, btw) and if I were to drop the same money into an M4, it wouldn't be close power-wise and would walk my RS5 to the park everyday and even on Sunday.

Lastly, I am thinking about picking up a more aggressive daily. Maybe an RS7? I'd sell my RS5 first. Maybe $62K is fair at 34K miles and all the mods?

[Burrcold]

Do you plan to code yours out? I am almost debating coding my rs5 soundaktor back in because it is so nice and quiet inside but I know its pretty loud outside, though I don't get that same effect inside. lol

I'm not going to code out all of the sound because it technically is the "real" sounds, just awkwardly amplified through the speakers. I'll likely lower the volume on it, and add a mid-pipe (basically what I did with the RS5 - turned down the soundaktor to 60% and added the res delete). The S58 engine is fairly easy and cheap to make sound really good (in my opinion)...even in stock form I found it much deeper and "wild" sounding vs my B9.5 RS5 did stock. I also like that it revs out to redline...I know you can code the RS5 to do the same thing, but I didn't.

[ragy17001]

Performance-wise? M3/M4 takes the cake and that's not even up for debate. Daily driver car? I'd say the RS5 is the better of the two. The balance RS5s have is incredible IMO.

Funny, I dropped a lot of money to get my RS5 to 600WHP (my daily driver, btw) and if I were to drop the same money into an M4, it wouldn't be close power-wise and would walk my RS5 to the park everyday and even on Sunday.

Lastly, I am thinking about picking up a more aggressive daily. Maybe an RS7? I'd sell my RS5 first. Maybe $62K is fair at 34K miles and all the mods?

I see way waaaay too many people saying things like this. The fact that the 2.9L engine in your RS5 is "only" making 600whp with a stage 3 setup is not a result of the engines inability to make more power, It's because of the lack of turbos, tunning, & development.

Too often I see people draw comparisons to the BMW crowd as a reason to doubt the 2.9T. The BMW community has maybe 200+ shops actively working and developing new software and hardware for B58s, S58s, etc. while the B9 RS5 community has just one tuner putting in effort: 034.

This isn't a knock at 034, but you have to remember that they are an OTS tuner. They're all about making safe reliable horsepower. They are not in the business of pushing cars to the ragged edge trying to shatter records at the expense of potentially blowing a motor like you'll find in the BMW community. Take the S58 for example. A quick forum search on bimmerpost will reveal the hurdles tuners had to go through when they were first pushing that platform. Many bent rods because they pushed the torque value too high during tunning. Then later many shops found out that the plastic intake manifold was prone to cracking at the 750+whp mark so that needed to be upgraded to a $8k+ billet one. Then there's the transmission that also needed to be upgraded past 750+ whp. All those discoveries were the result of diving into the unknown and pushing a platform to the limit. Now, I have a lot of respect for the S58 platform and I'm in no way trying to minimize it's lethalness but anyone that tries to tell you that it was smooth sailing developing that platform to what it is now, is either lying or very uninformed.

Now if you look at the 2.9T platform you'll find that it is very underdeveloped. There's maybe 2 viable intercooler options, 1 noteworthy hybrid turbo upgrade (TTE720), no upgraded injectors or port injection, and again ONLY one tuner is actively developing software and hardware for this platform at a high level. Also to my knowledge no one has managed to bend a 2.9T rod or crack a 2.9T piston from pushing the tunning too far. The only hindrance that's been mentioned in the head studs after extensive prolonged use at high boost but that is not unique to the RS5. Not saying you need to necessarily break a motor to find it's limits, but you cant judge a motors true potential if it's never been taken to the next level.

NinjamanRS5, don't take this as some type of diss or argument towards you. Didn't mean for it to come off that way if it did. I just wanted to add some context to this discussion.

[ninjamanRS5]

I didn't take offense at all, man. The reason why I am ready to move on is because I want a better baseline to get me to where I ultimately have more smiles per gallon. Of course that's relative to every individual and that's fine.

The lack of aftermarket support for the 2.9TT is definitely disappointing. Unfortunately, it is what it is.

Good thing is whomever picks up my RS is getting a monster!

I see way waaaay too many people saying things like this. The fact that the 2.9L engine in your RS5 is "only" making 600whp with a stage 3 setup is not a result of the engines inability to make more power, It's because of the lack of turbos, tunning, & development.

Too often I see people draw comparisons to the BMW crowd as a reason to doubt the 2.9T. The BMW community has maybe 200+ shops actively working and developing new software and hardware for B58s, S58s, etc. while the B9 RS5 community has just one tuner putting in effort: 034.

This isn't a knock at 034, but you have to remember that they are an OTS tuner. They're all about making safe reliable horsepower. They are not in the business of pushing cars to the ragged edge trying to shatter records at the expense of potentially blowing a motor like you'll find in the BMW community. Take the S58 for example. A quick forum search on bimmerpost will reveal the hurdles tuners had to go through when they were first pushing that platform. Many bent rods because they pushed the torque value too high during tunning. Then later many shops found out that the plastic intake manifold was prone to cracking at the 750+whp mark so that needed to be upgraded to a $8k+ billet one. Then there's the transmission that also needed to be upgraded past 750+ whp. All those discoveries were the result of diving into the unknown and pushing a platform to the limit. Now, I have a lot of respect for the S58 platform and I'm in no way trying to minimize it's lethalness but anyone that tries to tell you that it was smooth sailing developing that platform to what it is now, is either lying or very uninformed.

Now if you look at the 2.9T platform you'll find that it is very underdeveloped. There's maybe 2 viable intercooler options, 1 noteworthy hybrid turbo upgrade (TTE720), no upgraded injectors or port injection, and again ONLY one tuner is actively developing software and hardware for this platform at a high level. Also to my knowledge no one has managed to bend a 2.9T rod or crack a 2.9T piston from pushing the tunning too far. The only hindrance that's been mentioned in the head studs after extensive prolonged use at high boost but that is not unique to the RS5. Not saying you need to necessarily break a motor to find it's limits, but you cant judge a motors true potential if it's never been taken to the next level.

NinjamanRS5, don't take this as some type of diss or argument towards you. Didn't mean for it to come off that way if it did. I just wanted to add some context to this discussion.

[JohnEnglish]

But then, maybe Audi wises-up and brings the RS5 Avant (formerly RS4 Avant) and with comparable horsepower. :)

The B10 RS5 will only be available as an Avant.

[Burrcold]

The B10 RS5 will only be available as an Avant.

It's unfortunate if this is what happens. Sure it will appease all of the avant/wagon lovers, but at the expense of all the people that love the sportback design (myself included).

[VVG]

M3 wins for me with an available stick (not the comp)

Manual is only on the RWD model, and this is way too much power/torque to be useful without AWD.

[Burrcold]

Manual is only on the RWD model, and this is way too much power/torque to be useful without AWD.

What?? That's crazy talk. I'm driving one as my daily right now until my xDrive model arrives on Friday. It puts the power down so well, even with not so ideal temps/rain we had here in Toronto over the past week. Keep in mind the S58 that's in the manual is slightly detuned.

[VVG]

Performance-wise? M3/M4 takes the cake and that's not even up for debate. Daily driver car? I'd say the RS5 is the better of the two. The balance RS5s have is incredible IMO.

Funny, I dropped a lot of money to get my RS5 to 600WHP (my daily driver, btw) and if I were to drop the same money into an M4, it wouldn't be close power-wise and would walk my RS5 to the park everyday and even on Sunday.

Lastly, I am thinking about picking up a more aggressive daily. Maybe an RS7? I'd sell my RS5 first. Maybe $62K is fair at 34K miles and all the mods?

A few considerations......

1. Unless you find a really specific buyer, this level of mods will actually drop the resale value of your car. Just my observation over the years.
2. RS7 will feel and drive like a bigger car. I think the 5 is comfortable enough but still feels dynamic. 7 will be a straight line luxo-rocket, but you will feel the size. I know this from my previous C7 S6. Not sure if this matters to you or not.

[Z06Corey]

Manual is only on the RWD model, and this is way too much power/torque to be useful without AWD.

Stick with power and RWD. That's the fun!!! I have a Corvette Z06 that's more power than the M, RWD, and stick.

[VVG]

What?? That's crazy talk. I'm driving one as my daily right now until my xDrive model arrives on Friday. It puts the power down so well, even with not so ideal temps/rain we had here in Toronto over the past week. Keep in mind the S58 that's in the manual is slightly detuned.

Personal preference then. Sure you get a muscle car experience, but the reason BMW started putting X-drive on their M-cars is because of the traction issues at this overall level of power/torque.

[Burrcold]

Personal preference then. Sure you get a muscle car experience, but the reason BMW started putting X-drive on their M-cars is because of the traction issues at this overall level of power/torque.

The reason they put xDrive is to appeal to more people that are afraid to drive a RWD car with that much power. If you live in a climate that doesn't have 5-6 months of cold temperatures, the RWD models are just fine putting their power down. Obviously I would still choose xDrive because I like the AWD "safety" just like Quattro. Lots of RWD high power Porsche, Ferrari, etc that aren't just a "muscle car experience".

[VVG]

The reason they put xDrive is to appeal to more people that are afraid to drive a RWD car with that much power. If you live in a climate that doesn't have 5-6 months of cold temperatures, the RWD models are just fine putting their power down. Obviously I would still choose xDrive because I like the AWD "safety" just like Quattro. Lots of RWD high power Porsche, Ferrari, etc that aren't just a "muscle car experience".

You can't compare a mid or rear engine RWD car to a front engine RWD car that has a turbocharged high torque motor. The weight distribution and traction over the drive wheels is way different. The issue with the BMW M cars and some previous Mercedes AMG, for that matter, is that the big torque swell of the high power/torque motors in a front-engine/RWD configuration simply results in insufficient traction. Try turning all the stability mechanisms off and see what happens. And, with the systems on, they are intervening constantly. Add in even slightly damp roadways and the cars have to be driven just so delicately, that they are not fun.

Sure, in perfect weather and on perfect roads, they are fine, but these cars are not pure fair weather toys or pure track weapons. They are designed as practical driving instruments with performance added in. The power delivery for a front engine RWD car is best from a NA motor. And even then, they can be traction limited. It's not a matter of being "afraid", but whether or not they can be enjoyed in an optimal manner, without just smoking the tires at every light.

[Burrcold]

You can't compare a mid or rear engine RWD car to a front engine RWD car that has a turbocharged high torque motor. The weight distribution and traction over the drive wheels is way different. The issue with the BMW M cars and some previous Mercedes AMG, for that matter, is that the big torque swell of the high power/torque motors in a front-engine/RWD configuration simply results in insufficient traction. Try turning all the stability mechanisms off and see what happens. And, with the systems on, they are intervening constantly. Add in even slightly damp roadways and the cars have to be driven just so delicately, that they are not fun.

Sure, in perfect weather and on perfect roads, they are fine, but these cars are not pure fair weather toys or pure track weapons. They are designed as practical driving instruments with performance added in. The power delivery for a front engine RWD car is best from a NA motor. And even then, they can be traction limited. It's not a matter of being "afraid", but whether or not they can be enjoyed in an optimal manner, without just smoking the tires at every light.

Like I said, I'm daily driving a a manual RWD M3 right now until my xDrive competition comes in on Friday. It has been great in not so ideal situations over the past month. Not roasting tires and very easy to modulate the throttle and power is fairly linear. The previous F8x gen were a handful especially if it was wet or cold out. The G8x chassis cars are much much better. Anyway, I still obviously understand the constraints of high power (front engine) RWD cars, which is exactly why I'm going AWD.

[STi from DSM]

What dealership did you test drive the M3 at? Motorwerks?

[Pandemic]

B9/B9.5 RS5 has very little hype compared to the G80 M3 which has made it great to get them used as prices are cratering. The styling of the G80 is hideous and everyone I know that has one just loves to talk about how much better it drives than the RS5. I don't track or drag race so the RS5 is just the right amount of power for legal spirited driving. plus as a previous poster said, the G80 is enticing because a ton more modding support but as someone who lives in california, modding got old very quick (state ref, mandatory smog, crack down on hot smog etc..)

most the people who mod here no longer even come out to car meets because their scared of getting state ref'd lol. having the right power/car at OEM power is an extreme value add / luxury in California.

[ZiggySq5]

I dailyed a 2022 g80 base for two years, and recently sold it for an s5 sb. While not an rs5, the s5 is just such a better daily driver for me. The m3 was fun for a while but eventually got old for a variety of reasons. I think maybe if I had a comp xdrive (auto) I may not have gotten rid of it. But overall, imo, Audi is just a more comfortable experience (especially when I’m mainly carting my two young kids around).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk