Upgrade path advice for b6 1.8 and a pile of goodies

[Sactocivic]

Hi guys, I’m fairly new here and wanted to get some opinions. I recently purchased an 03 a4 1.8 TIP Quattro with a blown motor. I replaced the motor with a used 1.8 with 130k miles on it and it runs well. While in process I made a few trips to the local junkyard for odds and ends and found the 5 speed version of my car but loaded with a bunch of goodies. So far I’ve pulled a F21L Frankenturbo with the billet compressor upgrade, boost brothers FMIC, 550cc Bosch injectors, 034 silicone turbo inlet hose, a billet diverter valve and what I assume is a remapped/tuned ECU(it’s been opened, has blue paint pen on the 4 Torx bolts securing the cover and SG2 in the same pen written on the bottom. I got an 034 poly snubber, 3” MAF, 3” catless down pipe as well as a few other things. Now I’m not sure how to proceed.
This is my 1st Audi and my 1st turbo car in quite a long time. Stock, it’s a little underwhelming and I’d like some more power out of it, but not sure how to proceed as I’ve got no idea what kind of tune the donor car is actually running. I don’t want to add all these goodies only to have the car make 300+ hp and break a rod or a ring land.
Would it be safe to install the turbo and fmic on the stock ecu? Or maybe just the diverter and fmic? I’ve been using the free version of VCDS to get acquainted with it and intend on upgrading to the paid version shortly for more usability.
Any thoughts/suggestions/recommendations would be much appreciated.
I plan on going back to see if the donor has an aftermarket fuel pump/ pressure regulator. I can’t imagine the fuel system is stock with all the other add-ons the car had.

[Gunnarrrrr]

don’t install the turbo without a tune, and obviously not the injectors. or do, and have dave at motoza get you a file. Throw that diverter valve in the trash and get yourself a diaphragm one, or don’t. I’d go back to that car and see if it’s got rods in it you can take. f21l isn’t much but it’s definitely enough to hurt your rods at some point. That turbo is kind of right at the point where you need to be considering rods.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Sactocivic]

Thanks Gunnarr, I’ve been wrenching for quite a while, and realize what installing injectors with almost double the flow rate will do without a tune, and the stock rods durability is kind of what I was getting at. I’m just not sure what pieces I might use with the stock bottom end for a little (25-50) more hp and make the car more enjoyable to drive. Or if I need any of the parts I’ve scavenged to add that level of power.
What’s the most cost effective way to ‘add a tune’ to the stock ecu? Can it be done through VCDS? I’ve just started looking around and it seems like $500 is about the starting point for the software to reprogram the computer. Am I correct there?

[Gunnarrrrr]

do motoza’s stock engine e85 tune if u have it available, they’ll squeeze almost 100 extra hp out of the stock turbo with just 550 injectors.

You can try to mess with the nefmoto community file if you’re interested in spending a lot of time learning this ecu and self tuning, it’ll get you about 20hp.

otherwise for pump gas, motoza is still good for about $500, i’d go that route if you plan on sourcing rods and doing that f21 later. it’s a custom tune, so they’ll review your logs and rewrite it to account for hardware changes for a small fee. otherwise honestly the APR off the shelf tune is still pretty good if you plan on staying totally stock for awhile. that intercooler is also a must for any tune, you’ll see the benefits even with a stock ecu. every pull will feel like that first pull on a cold day.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Cybersombosis]

It sounds like you have everything you need including the tune. Just have to adapt the ecu to your Immo and done. I have the FT F4 with water meth and haven’t upgraded rods. I believe Old Guy has an F21 without doing rods as well so it’s really not necessary. E85 is another story. If you are concerned about the tune then, like Gunnar said, get a Motoza custom tune.

[Gunnarrrrr]

I totally missed the part about the tune. but if it’s been opened it might already be immo off, no other reason to crack one open unless you’re doing an immo off these days. If it’s an older tune it might have a chip on it, you can peek in and see if there’s one there. If you’re feeling like taking a risk pop it in your car and see what happens, you’ll need the injectors at least to run it, and the turbo if you plan on driving it. If you do, run it and take some logs. If you’re not up for the challenge and the risk, just take that hardware and get a custom tune done from scratch.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[EuroxS4]

First step convert to a manual transmission.

[Sactocivic]

Thanks for the input guys. If I were going to go manual, would you suggest I pull the 5sp from the donor car($300) or look for a 6 sp?

[Gunnarrrrr]

just grab a 6sp. your ecu will only let you code it for a 5 speed, but that doesn’t matter. I just finished up a 6 speed swap on mine last week, so feel free to hit me up if you have any questions while it’s still fresh in my mind. I can give you a shopping list.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[grayjay]

You can try to mess with the nefmoto community file if you’re interested in spending a lot of time learning this ecu and self tuning, it’ll get you about 20hp.

To add to that; nefmoto thread for their 1.8T stage 1 is at;
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/foru...p?topic=6955.0

I've been using the file with minimal additional adjustment for couple of years, it has been a nice reliable bump up from stock. I first ran it with stock KO3s turbo, then more recently went to a KO4. It runs fine for me with the KO4, just not really any more additional boost until I add larger injectors and re-tune. (Stock injectors are limiting factor even for use with a KO3s). Intent of the nefmoto tune is not to just get a free tune but it is a roadmap for learning how to go about DIY tuning and making even more custom tune for your specific hardware. The nefmoto data logger is very powerful (and necessary) tool for monitoring sensor data and using that to inform additional tuning.
You could very well start with the Nefmoto stage 1 tune, stock injectors and frankenturbo in order to first get it running reliably, then add the 550cc injectors, (adjust the injector flow constants for them), and then slowly proceed with adding more spicy tuning to take advantage of the increased potential of the turbo/injector/intercooler/exhaust combo. Nefmoto tuning world is definitely a long & steep learning curve to utilize but it is also very powerful and a wealth of info available. The knowledgeable old guard members on nefmoto forum have very little tolerance for supporting new users that do not do their own homework & make use of searching the existing info. Don't expect anyone their to hand-hold you through each beginner step but intelligent researched questions do get answered.
Along with tuning power of the engine, Nefmoto is also good for DIY adjustments of immobilizer and hardware changes such as emissions deletes (such as SAI, post-cat O2).

One caution on using the tuned junkyard ECU that you obtained, if it has immobilizer deactivated then you will not be able to pair additional new keys (virgin RFID) to the car as you need both the ECU and cluster immobilizer to do that. Just make sure you have all the keys you need paired to the stock ECU/Cluster first before switching to a immobilizer off ECU. (or turn its immobilizer on and re-program the SKC to match your stock ECU/cluster).
Any indications of why the tuned car went to the junkyard? Collision damage might indicate it was a good running setup but if car otherwise looks OK it might be a disaster of a tuning project that someone else gave up with, could be a poor starting point if you have to start by sorting out someone else's mess.

[Spike00513]

manual > automatic

[Larhal]

just grab a 6sp. your ecu will only let you code it for a 5 speed, but that doesn’t matter. I just finished up a 6 speed swap on mine last week, so feel free to hit me up if you have any questions while it’s still fresh in my mind. I can give you a shopping list.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

Hi Gunnarrrr,

When you put the 6 speed in what did your instrument cluster do if anything? Will the ECU throw any codes?

Looking to do this>

Thanks Larry

[EuroxS4]

just grab a 6sp. your ecu will only let you code it for a 5 speed, but that doesn’t matter. I just finished up a 6 speed swap on mine last week, so feel free to hit me up if you have any questions while it’s still fresh in my mind. I can give you a shopping list.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

You can flash the ecu with a factory ecm file from audi for an update they had for cold start misfires it will make the part number of ecm software end in BC this will have all 5 speed and 6 speed tables in the flash, then it can be coded for a 6 speed and cruise will work in all gears.

[grayjay]

If your 2003 ECU does not have support for 6-speed soft coding, you can re-flash the ECU to newer a 2004-2005 file which does have the support for 6-speed. ECU hardware is identical for all three years, just different software that can be changed.
If you just leave it running 5-speed soft coding, the problem will be that cruise control does not work for 6th gear since ECU lacks the gear ratio tables to identify what gear it is in then. Couple of relevant threads to check for more info

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...r-manual-swap?

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-VSS-from-ABS?

[EuroxS4]

If your 2003 ECU does not have support for 6-speed soft coding, you can re-flash the ECU to newer a 2004-2005 file which does have the support for 6-speed. ECU hardware is identical for all three years, just different software that can be changed.
If you just leave it running 5-speed soft coding, the problem will be that cruise control does not work for 6th gear since ECU lacks the gear ratio tables to identify what gear it is in then. Couple of relevant threads to check for more info

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...r-manual-swap?

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-VSS-from-ABS?

Yes I posted this information some times ago along with part number of the flash file and so on. Reflash to get 6pseed tables in the ecu for cruise.

[Sactocivic]

Grayjay, Thank you very much for the insights, I’ll most likely take a look into nefmoto as:
1. Im a geek like that.
2. Im cheap like that. ;)
Not knowing anything about the software yet, I assume nefmoto is as powerful/useful as VCDS but less user friendly? I’ve been trying to decide wether or not to drop the $200+/- on VCDS.
The car was junked due to collision, and prior to that looks to have been well thought out and taken care of. I think I’m going to pull the oil filter adapter off the side of its block to have a look at the rods. Who knows, I may just come home with another long block :))
Thanks again Grayjay,

[Gunnarrrrr]

Drop the $200 on vcds. You’ll need it for lots of other things


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Sactocivic]

Drop the $200 on vcds. You’ll need it for lots of other things


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

Done.

[grayjay]

Grayjay, Thank you very much for the insights, I’ll most likely take a look into nefmoto as:
1. Im a geek like that.
2. Im cheap like that. ;)
Not knowing anything about the software yet, I assume nefmoto is as powerful/useful as VCDS but less user friendly?

VCDS and nefmoto are fairly different. VCDS is more like a shop maintenance and troubleshooting tool, allows you to DIY a wide range of "dealer level" adaptation and settings that audi did not make available to the average car owner. However, it does nothing for altering the ECU tuning for performance above stock.
The suite of various software tools developed by nefmoto forums members make it possible to read out and re-flashing the ECU software and files. It does not include a slick intuitive interface like some of the paid commercial ECU tuning suites. You pretty much need to search and read the nefmoto forums for past shared info, read the available ECU system documentation (originally all developed in German by Bosch) and get an understanding of the purpose of the ECU data tables and how to manipulate them. Not at all easy but fun in its own way as a nerdy hobby.

Audizine threat that might help get you started too;
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-your-me7-ecu?

If your collection of junkyard parts was previously running together well enough to get into a crash them it probably would be worth trying to use them together with the stage2 ECU. Entirely possible however it could be encrypted to prevent you from reading or making further small changes yourself depending on who wrote the tuning.

[Larhal]

Yes I posted this information some times ago along with part number of the flash file and so on. Reflash to get 6pseed tables in the ecu for cruise.

Thank You EuroxS4

[Mike Tries]

To add to that; nefmoto thread for their 1.8T stage 1 is at;
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/foru...p?topic=6955.0

I've been using the file with minimal additional adjustment for couple of years, it has been a nice reliable bump up from stock. I first ran it with stock KO3s turbo, then more recently went to a KO4. It runs fine for me with the KO4, just not really any more additional boost until I add larger injectors and re-tune. (Stock injectors are limiting factor even for use with a KO3s). Intent of the nefmoto tune is not to just get a free tune but it is a roadmap for learning how to go about DIY tuning and making even more custom tune for your specific hardware. The nefmoto data logger is very powerful (and necessary) tool for monitoring sensor data and using that to inform additional tuning...

This post is dead-on. The nefmoto folks are great, and the forum is a treasure trove of information about tuning these cars. But yeah, make sure you do your research before asking questions. There's a 40+ page thread (probably the one linked in grayjay's post) that goes into the development of that tune, and you should read every single post. Twice.

Did anybody mention the cables? The USB to OBDII cables? To run VCDS you'll need the HEX-something-or-other cable (which is what you buy from the VCDS folks). But to run nefmoto stuff, you'll need a "dumb" cable. It wouldn't work for me with the VCDS cable. So... over to E-bay for you for that one. Mine is blue and it has translucent plastics and wire insulation, so... you know... that's kind of cool.

I found the nefmoto tune to be satisfying and delightfully-noticeable. If somebody told me I picked up 40 horsepower at the crank, I wouldn't doubt it (though, it might be less). My A4 is still considerably slower than everything else in my fleet, but at least it's a fun manual car to drive around in--can't say the Tesla scratches that itch. Plus, you can go in and edit some of the tables or cell values... top speed too high? Try setting it to 36 mph.

Of course... to make changes to your binary file, you'll need a whole host of other applications, plus a... what's it called... the map file? I'm a little rusty on all of this since my car has been blown up since May because I did something stupid.

[Gin+]

The heavy hitters on nefmoto have a solid understanding of assembly/machine code and I suspect are very sensitive to sunlight. As someone who's traveled down the rabbit hole, I'd be happy to try and answer questions in human language. What I had going for me when I started was a good understanding of the windows OS (command line, hardware drivers, filesystem, etc), a lot of down time at my job, and I was very broke whereas a $500 tune was out of the question.

[Mike Tries]

Heh. The things that suddenly become feasible when buying them isn't.