Q7 4M 3.0 CREC engine oil consumption piston pics

[boaudi]

Hi folks, new to me 2018 have 88k miles on the clock - previous owner maintained at Audi dealership, looks like oil consumption is about 1 quart per 800-1.3k miles depending on driving style. About 2k miles prior to my purchase dealer did decarbon and replaced cylinder 4 injector, did not swap out pvc, and supercharger clutch is on the way out maybe customer decline those 2. I took some pics of the pistons, cylinder walls, and parts of the valves. Can I get some thoughts if this is still ok, or about to die any day now.

please follow https://imgur.com/a/v6NzlA8 for pics

https://imgur.com/a/v6NzlA8

[boaudi]

bit of additional info - called the previous dealer, of course they wouldn't share service info but did tell me that at 72k miles they did do compression, leaked down, and oil study all came within spec. They did replace pvc which did not address oil consumption issue at all.

[S4'ed]

Pics of piston tops and cylinder walls look fine. The oil consumption is because of clogged oil-drain passages of the oil-control rings. Unless you pull the pistons out, you can't see this problem.
Also, a compression test will come out fine, as the oil control rings have nothing to do with cylinder compression performance.

[Gunmeister]

Scary, I have a Q7, too. I'm worried I'll develop these same consumption issues.

[a4lownslow]

Scary, I have a Q7, too. I'm worried I'll develop these same consumption issues.

You will… I’ve had 3 of them around 120k miles. All consuming a quart in 1000miles or less. The most recent a quart in 400 miles


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[Gunmeister]

Nightmare :(. So annoying to pay 92k for this vehicle for this bs. I was hoping they had this engine figured out by now.

[a4lownslow]

Nightmare :(. So annoying to pay 92k for this vehicle for this bs. I was hoping they had this engine figured out by now.

Yep. Totally unacceptable. The gen 1 3 liter did not have consumption issues like this and after the 2.0t fiasco it’s hard to believe Audi could let this happen again. Seems after 80-100k it’s only a matter of time


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[a4lownslow]

IMG_3113.jpg
360 miles on the trip 1 quart down


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[Gunmeister]

Pics of piston tops and cylinder walls look fine. The oil consumption is because of clogged oil-drain passages of the oil-control rings. Unless you pull the pistons out, you can't see this problem.
Also, a compression test will come out fine, as the oil control rings have nothing to do with cylinder compression performance.

Is there any way to fix the clogged drain without taking the engine apart?

[a4lownslow]

I’ve used Berryman B12 on the 2.0T to soak the piston which basically cured oil consumption. Will be trying it this weekend to see how it works on the 3.0T.


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[Gunmeister]

I’ve used Berryman B12 on the 2.0T to soak the piston which basically cured oil consumption. Will be trying it this weekend to see how it works on the 3.0T.


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Please let us know how it goes we would all appreciate it

[a4lownslow]

Absolutely


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[winreboot]

+1

I too have the issue and just live with adding oil. But notice interesting pattern. I don't know if this makes a differance but the range changes when to add oil based on how often I drive the car and how long my trip is. Last month with weather around 30-40F here in NE PA and me taking short trips it got as bad as 350miles before adding oil. But last weekend I took trip to Canada and made over 1000 miles and my oil level is only half gone. I would expect to fill up on oil at list 3 times. It almost makes me belive it's the PVC system but I already replace PVC with the latest revision so I know it's good. One thing I did not replace is the PVC vent hose as I thought it's just a normal hose but it looks like it might have some internal to it. The part number is 06e103217al but I could not find thepart number for the other side. Do our cars only have one side?

[a4lownslow]

The soak begins.. IMG_3176.jpg


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[A4Qwattro]

Pics of piston tops and cylinder walls look fine. The oil consumption is because of clogged oil-drain passages of the oil-control rings. Unless you pull the pistons out, you can't see this problem.
Also, a compression test will come out fine, as the oil control rings have nothing to do with cylinder compression performance.

The carbon build up in the oil control rings can end up scouring the cylinders if it gets bad enough. That’s why when left unchecked owners end up losing the whole motor.

[a4lownslow]

Back together with a fresh oil change. Now to start tracking consumption. I use VCDS to measure oil level as it is more precise than the mmi. 98-100mm is a perfectly full reading. Oil min light will come on around 85mm. The delta between min and max (1 quart) on the mmi is approximately 15mm.IMG_3186.jpg


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[Gunmeister]

Is there a DIY to show how you just performed the soak?

[a4lownslow]

Check out Eurotrash on YouTube. Search Berryman b12 oil consumption Audi 2.0T. Same concept with the v6. Remove spark plugs and pour in about 3-4oz b12 per cylinder. I let it sit for about 6 hours, then rotate the engine by hand a couple times. Then add another 3-4oz per cylinder and let soak again. After 15-20 hours total soak time use vacuum tool to remove remaking liquid in cylinder. With spark plug and coils still remove cycle engine using starter for about 30 seconds to blow out remaking liquid. Put back together and start the car. I let idle for 5 min. Then increase rpm to 1500-2000 for about 10 min. Then let idle for another 5 min. Change the oil and you’re done.


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[a4lownslow]

206 miles and oil level is still full. Previously would have been down half way.

-Post oil change (7.2 quarts) VCDS 98mm

-206 miles driven VCDS bouncing between 97-98mm


Will continue to update as miles increase..
IMG_3248.jpg
IMG_3247.jpg
IMG_3246.jpg


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[winreboot]

Awesome, sounds good. Do you remember if those were long or short trips?


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[a4lownslow]

Awesome, sounds good. Do you remember if those were long or short trips?


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First 70 miles were short trips. 10-15 miles. Took it for a 140 mile round trip this morning with combined freeway and slow downs/ accelerations passing through multiple small towns


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[Gunmeister]

Awesome we all appreciate you doing this.

[a4lownslow]

295 miles. Still full

72642430270__C28C8FC8-DB16-4483-9AD9-5B44198336FA.jpg


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[2.7bt fan]

Hi just wondered if the oil consumption is still under control? I'm about to do the same procedure to my Q7 with 145000 miles on it, it is burning close to a qt for every gas tank :-)

[a4lownslow]

Hi just wondered if the oil consumption is still under control? I'm about to do the same procedure to my Q7 with 145000 miles on it, it is burning close to a qt for every gas tank :-)

Still holding strong! Just hit 500 miles and no drop on the mmi. At this rate I’ll hit my 5000 mile OCI without seeing the light. Previously quart every 350 miles


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[2.7bt fan]

Great news thanks a lot for the update.:-)

[JLAllroad]

My oil consumption story, and remedy.

2019 3.0 Q7 New Owner Concerns
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15035204


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[winreboot]

My oil consumption story, and remedy.

2019 3.0 Q7 New Owner Concerns
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15035204


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Awesome, thanks for shearing. But is there a special suction tube for Q7 ? I just done the engine flush and used suction to extract the oil but it only sucked about 4qt of oil. I then drain the rest from oil pan. I pushed the tube as far as it could go and even lifted the car on one side so the oil would flow to the other side of oil pan but it could not extract all the oil.

IMG_5924.jpg


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[JLAllroad]

Awesome, thanks for shearing. But is there a special suction tube for Q7 ? I just done the engine flush and used suction to extract the oil but it only sucked about 4qt of oil. I then drain the rest from oil pan. I pushed the tube as far as it could go and even lifted the car on one side so the oil would flow to the other side of oil pan but it could not extract all the oil.

IMG_5924.jpg


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Using the capped tube on the front drivers side of the engine, which would probably have a dipstick if they were equipped.

You might be hitting a baffle or actually inserting too far and having the tube curl back up. I’m generally extracting between 6.5 and 7L., 6.8L is the CREC capacity when full.


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[winreboot]

Using the capped tube on the front drivers side of the engine, which would probably have a dipstick if they were equipped.

You might be hitting a baffle or actually inserting too far and having the tube curl back up. I’m generally extracting between 6.5 and 7L., 6.8L is the CREC capacity when full.


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Oh, ok. That makes sense. Yea if anything I inserted it too far and it curled. Yes, it’s a plug on driver side, no dipstick. Thanks


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[a4lownslow]

555 miles. Oil level still full. 97mmIMG_3466.jpg
IMG_3467.jpg
Attachment 323128


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[Tony@Jackal]

Strange the consumption you guys are all talking about. If any of you have a logging tool id be interested to see a couple things ive noticed as ive been finishing up the tuning for the 4M CREC platform. Our personal 4M had no issues at all, still doesnt, but when we started collecting logs from pre-release customers we did notice some crazy differences even on the same boxcode. can send me a PM/DM and ill tell you what i would like to see.

[cW6mT mKviGLi]

Strange the consumption you guys are all talking about. If any of you have a logging tool id be interested to see a couple things ive noticed as ive been finishing up the tuning for the 4M CREC platform. Our personal 4M had no issues at all, still doesnt, but when we started collecting logs from pre-release customers we did notice some crazy differences even on the same boxcode. can send me a PM/DM and ill tell you what i would like to see.

I had a C7.5 A6 with the CREC motor before the Q7. I acquired it when it was 2 years old with 29k miles. I traded it in 2019 for the Q7 with about 60k miles. That car had zero oil consumption.

In my opinion, I'm super proactive with maintenance on my Q7, and it started to consume oil at around 40k miles. The consumption then was minimal. As I approach 70k miles, it's getting to be about a quart between 1k and 2k miles.

The maintenance history of my Q7 is as follows:
(2nd owner at 19k miles and it was 10 months old):

The longest OCI was 3873 miles, typically done every 3k miles.

Air filter replaced every 2 oil changes

Fuel used Shell 93 octane (chevron techron every two oil changes)

Spark plugs were done at 45k miles

ZF trans and trans pan, along with front diff, center diff and rear diff fluids at 55k miles.



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[gdawg'05a4]

Consumption on the 4M 3.0T has been a bit of a hot topic, especially over on AW. As for ours, we've owned since new and started consuming about 1/2 qt between 5k oil change intervals at 40k. She currently sits at 96k and consumption rate remains the same.

I currently have APR but been following your development on the 4M. I'm most interested in the fact that the clutch will be active full time. I'll be sending you a PM!

[winreboot]

Consumption on the 4M 3.0T has been a bit of a hot topic, especially over on AW. As for ours, we've owned since new and started consuming about 1/2 qt between 5k oil change intervals at 40k. She currently sits at 96k and consumption rate remains the same.

I currently have APR but been following your development on the 4M. I'm most interested in the fact that the clutch will be active full time. I'll be sending you a PM!

Yea, looks like more wide spread issue. Having supercharger clutch engaged all the time would make sense, I just replaced my not too long ago. What tune are you refering that to?

[JLAllroad]

Yea, looks like more wide spread issue. Having supercharger clutch engaged all the time would make sense, I just replaced my not too long ago. What tune are you refering that to?

I would be interested to see the parameters for engagement, at 130k I’m sure ours is a bit clunky vs new but they sure did figure out how to get a 6000lb brick to get close to 30mpg on the highway.


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[gdawg'05a4]

Yea, looks like more wide spread issue. Having supercharger clutch engaged all the time would make sense, I just replaced my not too long ago. What tune are you refering that to?

Jackal's tune. https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Tuning-Thread

[Tony@Jackal]

Looking for some more logs :). IF anyone else has a logger they can record some cruise for me on i would appreciate it before i release my speculation on whats going on.

[2kwik4u]

Looking for some more logs :). IF anyone else has a logger they can record some cruise for me on i would appreciate it before i release my speculation on whats going on.

I've got VAG-COM, and a '17 Prestige. Have "medium" oil burn issues (2.5k mi per quart when fresh, drops to under 1k per qt when old). I'm transitioning job roles from KY to NY and will have plenty of opportunity to get steady state cruise logs.

2kwik4u - at - gmail - dot - com Shoot me an email and I'll see what I can get done.

[tys90]

New owner of a 2018 Q7 with 66k miles (yes, I was aware of the issue before buying used and am comfortable with the risk) and I'm wondering if doing the B12 soak as a preventative measure would do any good. If it is gradual carbon build up that is the issue, perhaps there are benefits in the soak even if oil consumption issues haven't started?