B5 RS4 - 25 year importation law

[StevenH]

My apologies if there is already a thread going on this. Anyhow, we're rolling up on the 25-year rule where importing a B5 RS4 will become much, much easier. Is anyone planning to do this? Owning one is a bucket list item for me so I'm curious to hear if people or importers are getting prepared to make this happen. I've had 2 other B5's that have spent months on jack-stands, cost me tens of thousands in repairs and diagnostics, and somehow still managed to put a smile on my face. Can't wait to do it again :D

[james 408]

there's easily a dozen threads on grey-market imports with lotsa info... not sure it addressed the 25-year specifics in detail though but again google could get you there pretty easily if you can read law quickly. or just talk to one of the car import companies who probably know off the top of their head.

[belms4]

You can already import one through a registered importer and have it federalized due to it being deemed close enough to existing U.S. models. I think about all the 25 year rule will open up is the right-hand drive b5 rs4s will be eligible for import now too, and you don't need to worry about swapping parts to meet U.S. safety standards for federalization any longer.

But also... yeah there's been tons of discussions on the topic in the past. You could also probably look at the RS2 turning 25 in 2019 and see what happened with that market in the following years, though not quite an exact comparison to the B5 RS4.

AZ Euros in Arizona is a well known shop that's been doing most of the B5 RS4 imports in recent years. Many from the Japanese market. You can always reach out to them if you have questions around importation.

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[james 408]

Without any direct case law knowledge, the idea that you can already import a b5 rs4 under the close enough rule is accurate although not without risk as I understand it. Of course it has certainly been done successfully for a long time, but that doesn't mean it's legal per se. State registration might provide its own set of hurdles as well, i imagine some of the blue states might have something to say about emissions testing. This is where getting an importer on record would be a good idea.

[avant1987]

With the LHD b5 rs4 being included on the NHSTA list of non-conforming vehicles. You can use a registered importer to import one prior to reaching 25 years old. But it is a more costly import process.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.go...elig120115.pdf

The b5 rs4 is now 21 years or older so it should not be subject to the emissions modifications per the EPA. The emissions modifications were one of the more costly parts of the modification process to make a B5 RS4 US legal prior to being 25 years old.

It’s coin flip as to whether it’s cheaper to buy one now and use an Registered importer vs waiting until 2026 to import one under the less restrictive criteria (25 years old no modifications needed). There will likely be a price jump that will take place once they hit 25 years old. Look at rs2 prices pre 25 years old and post as a barometer (apples to oranges, but close enough).

The cheapest B5 RS4s are RHD and that limits you to the 25 year old rule. If you want LHD talk to an importer like az euros or open air imports, buying one and storing it until 2026/7 may be the best way to lock in todays lower prices.

I track b5 rs4 prices via autoscout24.com. They are more affordable then they were post Covid when values on any sort of collectible car skyrocketed. “Cheapest” I have seen them in the last 3 years.

Good luck!


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[Mirror70]

It’s coin flip as to whether it’s cheaper to buy one now and use an Registered importer vs waiting until 2026 to import one under the less restrictive criteria (25 years old no modifications needed).

The first B5 RS4s were built in 1999, so they turn 25 next year.

[wpfahl]

If anyone is in the market for one.

https://www.classic.com/m/audi/a4/b5/rs4/


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[StevenH]

I appreciate the input and to clarify on my original post; yes, I've seen AZ Euros and read some old posts, but I remember the discussion YEARS ago being that once these hit the 25 year mark we are looking at a much, much simpler import process. Also, I'm pretty sure we're within a year of hitting the 25 year mark ;)

[Silverex]

I appreciate the input and to clarify on my original post; yes, I've seen AZ Euros and read some old posts, but I remember the discussion YEARS ago being that once these hit the 25 year mark we are looking at a much, much simpler import process. Also, I'm pretty sure we're within a year of hitting the 25 year mark ;)

A more simple import process, yea, but most likely pricing will rise.

[belms4]

A more simple import process, yea, but most likely pricing will rise.

Agreed. Simple supply and demand. Supply will stay the same (or keep going down in the case of classic cars) with a bigger demand/market open to buying. Glad I got all my conversion parts and azr engine already here prior to this.

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[Mocke]

On a different note,
I would be very careful with UK cars.
They have lots of bad weather,
it's practically raining most of the time.
Lots of rust etc...
Prices are on the low side thou.

[Mirror70]

Agreed. Simple supply and demand. Supply will stay the same (or keep going down in the case of classic cars) with a bigger demand/market open to buying. Glad I got all my conversion parts and azr engine already here prior to this.

I would look at it more as the interaction of two markets: US and ROW.

In ROW, the B5 RS4 is an old car that was fun but its time has passed and the values reflect that.

In the US, the B5 RS4 is still considered a sought after forbidden fruit due to the low supply resulting from the difficulty of importation.

I suspect that the lower prices in ROW will encourage people in the US to import many more of them once the barriers are lowered. US demand won't be enough to impact ROW pricing, but the much lower barrier for importation will increase US supply enough that it will lower US prices.

If you take a value-based pricing approach, the US pricing should move down as the lower barrier for importation means that importing a car provides lower added value and thus the pricing should decrease. The same holds true for cost-based pricing as the lower barrier will also mean a lower cost.

[Blazius]

Yeah agreed.


For the price of an RS4 B5 here in europe you can snag an S8 with 4.0, Rs6 c7, RS3's with 2.5 tfsi and they are arguably much better platforms to both run and modify possibly. Dont get me wrong I like the B5 and everything but if you had to choose... I know what I am picking.

[belms4]

Fair opinions. I could see maybe years down the road when it's 2nd and 3rd U.S. based owners things may get cheaper within the states, but I see that at like 2030 or later. From everything I've seen in the overseas markets the b5 rs4 is well past the bottoming of its value and most people are no longer parting them out since they're more profitable as a whole, which typically means market value only goes upward from there. We'll see though, will definitely be interesting to watch!

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[StevenH]

Yeah agreed.


For the price of an RS4 B5 here in europe you can snag an S8 with 4.0, Rs6 c7, RS3's with 2.5 tfsi and they are arguably much better platforms to both run and modify possibly. Dont get me wrong I like the B5 and everything but if you had to choose... I know what I am picking.

Of course. There is no reason to buy this car other than it being something that I have always wanted because its been forbidden and is unique here. I drove a B5 A4 when I was in my late teens, a B5 S4 in my early 20's and the B5 has always held a spot in my heart. My SUV that will sit next to it in the garage will probably out perform it in every metric besides it putting a smile on my face.

What does a CLEAN, reasonable mileage, LHD RS4 go for overseas at this point? If $50k puts that in my garage it seems like a no-brainer to me.

[Blazius]

Of course. There is no reason to buy this car other than it being something that I have always wanted because its been forbidden and is unique here. I drove a B5 A4 when I was in my late teens, a B5 S4 in my early 20's and the B5 has always held a spot in my heart. My SUV that will sit next to it in the garage will probably out perform it in every metric besides it putting a smile on my face.

What does a CLEAN, reasonable mileage, LHD RS4 go for overseas at this point? If $50k puts that in my garage it seems like a no-brainer to me.

50k$? You can even get them for like 25k Euros right now. Around 30 you can get em pretty nicely however.

have a look:

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/s...ar&sb=p&vc=Car

[belms4]

Guessing he means all in to get it here and legal to drive. I hit up AZ Euros a few years back (like around 2019) and they said expect roughly $40k USD on top of the price of the car to import and have them Federalize it. That's how they end up in the 60 to 90k USD range here now. Not sure how much of that 40k is spent on federalization. If half and if prices don't change after 2024 then 50 or 55k USD would seem a reasonable range to get into someone's hands in the states.

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[Blazius]

Guessing he means all in to get it here and legal to drive. I hit up AZ Euros a few years back (like around 2019) and they said expect roughly $40k USD on top of the price of the car to import and have them Federalize it. That's how they end up in the 60 to 90k USD range here now. Not sure how much of that 40k is spent on federalization. If half and if prices don't change after 2024 then 50 or 55k USD would seem a reasonable range to get into someone's hands in the states.

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Ah I guess yeah..

But damn thats crazy IMO. So much "markup".

[Mocke]

50k$? You can even get them for like 25k Euros right now. Around 30 you can get em pretty nicely however.

have a look:

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/s...ar&sb=p&vc=Car

Nah, 25k E will not even get you one thats been stolen and abused and refubed with second hand parts n china eftermarket crap.
I´v owned several and still owe one since 2011. By now, i dont even remember how many I have gone through doing both mechanical and tuning work, or just lookover etc...
The general rule is, you want to buy RS4 B5 from Germany, Scwitzerland, Austria and Scandinavia, Sweden, Norway, DK.
Reason for this is simple. Those German countries are motherland to the modell and has lots of ppl with good economy + availability of OE parts.
Scandinavia is rich countries, which give you much bigger chance of getting a car thats actually been taken car of with original parts or just used as Sunday ride, cos ppl has 2-3 cars on normal basis besides that.
I´v worked with Cars from Europian countries that are not so economicly well, bad narrow roads, no history to verify, previously blown motors, where blocks been exchanged for S4 block....and on averagy there is very low % of fresch objects. There is loads of cheaper solutions used, DIY...
Remember this is a premium B5 modell, and Americans that wants to import one, well, first they obv are ready to pay good money, and expecting a premium object.
You do not want get one that needs all sorts of attention, bc most parts are diamond price or NLA.
So, in Sweden atm:
Really trashy objects are 30k +
Regular ok one 45k
Nice one 55+
Sorted one with great history and honest known seller 70+´
Premium - 100k+

Also, once the 25 year rule is gone, there will be lots of crappy ones imported to US.
So, if you goona import one, you better make sure you got a solid guy on this side that you trust 100% and who knows these cars, or just take a trip and see it for yoursef before you pay for it.

[RMode]

Of course. There is no reason to buy this car other than it being something that I have always wanted because its been forbidden and is unique here. I drove a B5 A4 when I was in my late teens, a B5 S4 in my early 20's and the B5 has always held a spot in my heart. My SUV that will sit next to it in the garage will probably out perform it in every metric besides it putting a smile on my face.

What does a CLEAN, reasonable mileage, LHD RS4 go for overseas at this point? If $50k puts that in my garage it seems like a no-brainer to me.

Double that and you'll get some change leftover. $50k gets you the car with maybe 90km +. It doesn't get it in your garage. It also doesn't necessarily make it "sorted", and that's where things can also get pricey. Reasonable mileage is always a relative thing. Sub 75k miles cars are going to be in the 60k euro and up from what I have generally seen, to ~90k euros. Depends on the level of care.

IMHO, these will follow a similar trajectory to other "hero" cars that previously could not be brought here. Prices will go up, not down. RHD will be worth less than LHD. They still need to follow a procedure to fully legally get them here, and that procedure will still cost (just not as much as it currently does). But supply is also going down not up.

What Mocke said below is spot on. Not only are those countries in better economic shape, but many of those countries have very strict inspection laws and requirements. So you're far more likely to end up with a much better sorted car overall, as a general rule. Just look at S4's here. There are some absolute basket cases, and some that are done and maintained exceptionally, and their values reflect that.

[StevenH]

Some good info in the last few posts. Thank you! It sounds like costs will be substantiaally more than what I had estimated (for what I'm looking for, at least)... as you approach the six-figure mark there are cars that are simply much more appealing to me. Maybe that will change when the dollar strengthens vs the euro again.

Also, once the 25 year rule is gone, there will be lots of crappy ones imported to US.

The number of visibly beat-up JDM cars that I see on FB market, local roads, etc seems to have gone through the roof in recent years. You will definitely have to do your own DD to avoid getting burned here.

[Blazius]

Nah, 25k E will not even get you one thats been stolen and abused and refubed with second hand parts n china eftermarket crap.
I´v owned several and still owe one since 2011. By now, i dont even remember how many I have gone through doing both mechanical and tuning work, or just lookover etc...
The general rule is, you want to buy RS4 B5 from Germany, Scwitzerland, Austria and Scandinavia, Sweden, Norway, DK.
Reason for this is simple. Those German countries are motherland to the modell and has lots of ppl with good economy + availability of OE parts.
Scandinavia is rich countries, which give you much bigger chance of getting a car thats actually been taken car of with original parts or just used as Sunday ride, cos ppl has 2-3 cars on normal basis besides that.
I´v worked with Cars from Europian countries that are not so economicly well, bad narrow roads, no history to verify, previously blown motors, where blocks been exchanged for S4 block....and on averagy there is very low % of fresch objects. There is loads of cheaper solutions used, DIY...
Remember this is a premium B5 modell, and Americans that wants to import one, well, first they obv are ready to pay good money, and expecting a premium object.
You do not want get one that needs all sorts of attention, bc most parts are diamond price or NLA.
So, in Sweden atm:
Really trashy objects are 30k +
Regular ok one 45k
Nice one 55+
Sorted one with great history and honest known seller 70+´
Premium - 100k+

Also, once the 25 year rule is gone, there will be lots of crappy ones imported to US.
So, if you goona import one, you better make sure you got a solid guy on this side that you trust 100% and who knows these cars, or just take a trip and see it for yoursef before you pay for it.

I dont know man. The UK rs4 market is the lowest I've ever seen but ofcourse they are right hand drive.

As for LHD cars, I guess like that if you dont wanna do any work on them then yeah, you gonna have to spend a bit more which again I am not sure is worth it.

[Mocke]

I dont know man. The UK rs4 market is the lowest I've ever seen but ofcourse they are right hand drive.

As for LHD cars, I guess like that if you dont wanna do any work on them then yeah, you gonna have to spend a bit more which again I am not sure is worth it.

I work alot with UK market, and as meantioned, lots of rain there, rutten bodies. And most of all RHD, not so apiling.
Lots of them just get parted, as they remain not sold despite low prices.
There is also an aspekt of comic nature overthere, they are mostly joking and complaining about how bad these cars are, both vendors and owners, and obv lowering the overall desire owning them an prices.
And thats on dedicated B5 forums.

Fixing these is not like fixing S4s. Parts are NLA and you end-up buying used stuff from re-sellers adding 3x value.
So, you really want a sorted one with known owner, not a "hit n run" thats just earning money on them.

[avant1987]

If you bought a “clean” LHD rs4 today you are in at 40k USD minimum before taxes, fees, and the import costs not to mention you can’t land one today.

When RS4s are 25 year eligible EU prices will likely have risen to 50-55k minimum for a clean 100-150k mile example. There were 6,000 or so b5 RS4s made worldwide.

Like any early 2000s “tuner” car these cars have experienced their price bottom which has resulted in many getting molested, parted out, blown-up, etc. because they were at one point a cheap 20k car. We’d be lucky to learn if even half of those 6k units were still roadworthy, not to mention LHD.

I expect the rs4 to lightly mirror the US rs2 market. Initially when rs2s reached 25 year old import eligibility they sold for 55-65k, that was 2020. Now they are selling for 80-100k. Audi only made 2900 or so rs2s.

The rs4 is a tier or two below the rs2 in its novelty and rareness. But, they will be cars that I believe a US owner will make money on during their ownership. It’s a 6 speed turbo charged analog ICE. Positive return on investment brings more buying interest from collectors and non-Audi enthusiasts which helps drive prices to a greater exponent.

With the electrification/hybrid trends and manual, pure ICE cars becoming extinct, cars like the b5 rs4 will greatly benefit.

The automotive world is changing and there is and will continue to be a growing nostalgic yearning for drivers cars of all varieties, especially in the case of a cult non US market car like the b5 rs4


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