Bad transmission shift 1st and 2nd gear after APR Stg 1

[MyDimeIsUp]

New update, refer to this post: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post15015247

Hey all,

I got my 3.0T stage 1 APR tuned this past Monday and was really excited, however I am experiencing some very odd transmission behavior. In 1st gear it seems like the tranny is slipping and also produces this whine/light grind sound (I'm not sure how to describe it). I feel scared to give the car a lot of power coming from a stop and dare I even try launch control/AMax. I have 110k miles and just did a tranny and center diff service this past Thursday (4 days before my tune).

I threw the car on my lift, drained the fluid, filled up with Lifeguard 8, heated fluid up while running through P, N, R, and D, and topped off while car was running in park. Finally I cleared system-specific adaptations, did a quick adaptation, and followed Audi SSP 385 by coasting slowly in 1 - 4 gear and holding 5, 6, 7, and 8th gear at 1,600 - 2,100 while not exceeding 100nM for about 2.5 - 3 miles. Car drove perfectly and in fact was a lot smoother. I followed erWin and the Audi SSP to a T (and people give me shit for being a stickler for the erWin instructions but I always believe there is a reason why the engineers tell you to do something a certain way)

Come Monday, car is tuned and I start driving it and it doesn't seem to like 1st gear power so I figure I'll take it easy. I keep trying to give it a little power in 1st gear and it just feels horrible. I want to reiterate the car felt perfect after I performed the tranny fluid and adaptation. It only started feeling like this once the APR tune was applied.

I have double-checked the fluid level by removing the fill plug when between 35C - 45C and it starts to come out so it is not low on fluid. Car drove fine prior to tranny service, I performed it in anticipation of the tune, and drove better. After the APR tune it now performs horribly in 1st and 2nd.

Has anyone experienced this? Is this something I should reach out to APR about and for those that have had to reach out to APR in the past, what were they able to offer? I am very worried about possibly needing a new tranny after this tune but if it is required, does APR honor their warranty for APR Plus? I fear the worst but want to double-check first.

My only other guess could be spark plugs. I had planned to do them prior to my APR tune but didn't get the chance and my tools are still in my cart at work, but it feels more like the tranny. I can update when I get to do spark plugs (hopefully this Saturday)

Thanks all.

Here are videos of what I am experiencing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kneLOquqnik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B51jNVeu7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p4AQkA8VWA

[A665]

I don’t believe APR’s ECU tune affects the transmission at all. Same for Audi ECU tunes from any source.

[Botbasher]

Spark plugs?? Are you getting Random Misfire codes??

I was under the impression that you need to tune the TCU and ECU in tandem to match the power output of the motor to shift points.

That might be a DSG only thing, but I know that my brothers A5 (ZF8) when tuned felt all weird afterwards. Like it was searching for how to best shift. He got a TCU tune and I've heard no more about it, so that might be something for you to look at. At minimum, consult with APR about it. You could always have the dealer remove the tune, test drive the car and see if it's an interaction between the tune and your TCU.

The ECU tune can cause TCU "issues" when it is radically mismatched in terms of expected torque and rpm, but a basic Stage 1 tune is unlikely to damage your transmission unless it was having issues beforehand.

Good Luck!

KS

[f4m0u5]

+1 for trying tcu tune. 034 has a nice one. maybe even check out jackal.

unfortunately apr does not have tcu tune for zf8

[sepheroth86]

Spark plugs?? Are you getting Random Misfire codes??

I was under the impression that you need to tune the TCU and ECU in tandem to match the power output of the motor to shift points.

That might be a DSG only thing, but I know that my brothers A5 (ZF8) when tuned felt all weird afterwards. Like it was searching for how to best shift. He got a TCU tune and I've heard no more about it, so that might be something for you to look at. At minimum, consult with APR about it. You could always have the dealer remove the tune, test drive the car and see if it's an interaction between the tune and your TCU.

The ECU tune can cause TCU "issues" when it is radically mismatched in terms of expected torque and rpm, but a basic Stage 1 tune is unlikely to damage your transmission unless it was having issues beforehand.

Good Luck!

KS

+1 for trying tcu tune. 034 has a nice one. maybe even check out jackal.

unfortunately apr does not have tcu tune for zf8

Mine was the same. Felt like it was slipping.

TCU software upgrade took care of the issue.

[MyDimeIsUp]

Interesting. Just for added context last night I was showing my roommates what I was talking about (since they wanted a ride in the car) and I gave a good amount of power (not full throttle) coming from a stop and the car accelerated and then the engine revved all the way up, as if the tranny was thrown into neutral, letting off the gas I was suddenly in second gear "S2". Is this still indicative of needing a TCU tune or something deeper? I'm watching YouTube with people getting a Stage 1 ECU and doing a 0-60 and not having any the problems I'm having so that is what worries me. I have not had any transmission faults stored in the TCU nor any warnings on the dash.

How come APR offers the Stg 1 tune but no TCU tune for the ZF8? So I need to look into JHM, Melen, Berk, 034, IE, etc. and mix-and-match my tunes by having APR and some other brand TCU tune?

EDIT: Just got off the phone with APR and the gentleman said that they've been selling this tune for 10 years without a ZF8 tune and any problems he has heard of is because of the tranny or the mech unit, but probably something internal due to the clutches slipping.

[WatchMeSpend]

I don't believe that the APR tune did anything to cause this. At this point you either have someone examine the transmission or flash the TCU anyway. I see a lot of people running ECU tunes with no TCU tune. Back in the day, that was a sure way to destroy your transmission. When we added a power adder to a Trans AM and didn't modify the transmission, it made it a few months. We pulled the charger off and brought it to GM who replaced the transmission and then we modified the transmission and put the charger back on without any further incident.

You can see the current applied to the mech unit with an HP Tuners dongle. If you really did need to repair your transmission, it won't matter what you do on the outside. Flashing may be the cheapest option to see if you can get it to act right.

[WittyWookiee]

Interesting. Just for added context last night I was showing my roommates what I was talking about (since they wanted a ride in the car) and I gave a good amount of power (not full throttle) coming from a stop and the car accelerated and then the engine revved all the way up, as if the tranny was thrown into neutral, letting off the gas I was suddenly in second gear "S2". Is this still indicative of needing a TCU tune or something deeper? I'm watching YouTube with people getting a Stage 1 ECU and doing a 0-60 and not having any the problems I'm having so that is what worries me. I have not had any transmission faults stored in the TCU nor any warnings on the dash.

How come APR offers the Stg 1 tune but no TCU tune for the ZF8? So I need to look into JHM, Melen, Berk, 034, IE, etc. and mix-and-match my tunes by having APR and some other brand TCU tune?

EDIT: Just got off the phone with APR and the gentleman said that they've been selling this tune for 10 years without a ZF8 tune and any problems he has heard of is because of the tranny or the mech unit, but probably something internal due to the clutches slipping.

The reason they don’t have a ZF8 tune is because they no longer invest R&D into the 3.0t C7 platform. If there is still a refund window try to get it. If not, you can use the receipt of sale for the APR tune to get a discount from 034 as they offer a “switch from competitor” discount on their stage 1 ECU and TCU tunes. I just switched from APR to 034 and they gave me a discount for both.

[MyDimeIsUp]

The reason they don’t have a ZF8 tune is because they no longer invest R&D into the 3.0t C7 platform. If there is still a refund window try to get it. If not, you can use the receipt of sale for the APR tune to get a discount from 034 as they offer a “switch from competitor” discount on their stage 1 ECU and TCU tunes. I just switched from APR to 034 and they gave me a discount for both.

That could be an option I look into. I would want to see if I can get a refund and have it flashed back to stock, see how it drives, and if all goes well maybe look into 034. Really disappointed with this. Guy on the phone with APR did say they are looking into a ZF8 tune now though for our generation. He said they just released the ZF8 for B9 and they're now looking into ZF8 tune for C7/B8.

I don't believe that the APR tune did anything to cause this. At this point you either have someone examine the transmission or flash the TCU anyway. I see a lot of people running ECU tunes with no TCU tune. Back in the day, that was a sure way to destroy your transmission. When we added a power adder to a Trans AM and didn't modify the transmission, it made it a few months. We pulled the charger off and brought it to GM who replaced the transmission and then we modified the transmission and put the charger back on without any further incident.

You can see the current applied to the mech unit with an HP Tuners dongle. If you really did need to repair your transmission, it won't matter what you do on the outside. Flashing may be the cheapest option to see if you can get it to act right.

I really want to believe that APR tune did nothing as it doesn't even touch the TCU but the tranny was perfect prior to the tune. Car was smooth and the manual mode downshifts were pretty good. After doing the drain and fill with adaptation, the car was slightly smoother and the downshifts were perfect. No problems accelerating hard from a stop (I wanted to feel a stock pull once more before getting tuned). After the tune, the downshifts are still spot on but again that 1st and 2nd pull just makes me cringe. Any gear higher than 2 is amazing. A little thunk (though it shifts instantly, no slippage) when upshifting with a lot of throttle but that's probably drivetrain slop with the extra torque from the tune, nothing that feels abnormal or broken. Downshifting is pretty much like a DCT with no jerkiness or lugging.

[Botbasher]

EDIT: Just got off the phone with APR and the gentleman said that they've been selling this tune for 10 years without a ZF8 tune and any problems he has heard of is because of the tranny or the mech unit, but probably something internal due to the clutches slipping.

You ever bought a pair of shoes, pants or a shirt in your size, get it home to try it on... after all, you've been buying the same size for 25+ years, so why try it on... and they don't fit. You check the size... yep.. my size. You return them, because it has to be mis-labled, right? Get it home and WTF... too small again! You try it on 3x in the store because there just has to be a reason they don't fit even though they are marked in your size!!!

Couldn't be you gaining weight wearing a saggy stretched out XXXL you bought 14 years ago... or could it just be that this particular mfg uses a different sizing chart and their XXXL is really closer to a XL than a XXL?!?

Not knocking APR, but just because they have been selling it for years doesn't make it good for EVERY car!There are too many permutations to cover them all with a single OTS tune. That's why when we go from OTS tunes to a custom tune without any additional mods, the difference can be startling and amazing! Mine was like driving two different cars!!

You might try doing a trans adaptation. Maybe it'll help the TCU align with the new power curves a little better.

I would go back to the dealer and have them reflash to stock and validate it that way. That gets you gets you back to stock, gets you drivable and lets you think about your next action without a clock ticking!

Good luck what ever you choose!

KS

[Botbasher]

I gave a good amount of power (not full throttle) coming from a stop and the car accelerated and then the engine revved all the way up, as if the tranny was thrown into neutral, letting off the gas I was suddenly in second gear "S2"

Likely you exceeded the torque parameters set in the TCU and it disengaged the trans to a "safe" mode. Then, because you had stomped on it, it changed modes to "S".

My DSG does this... cruising in "Ex"... stomp on it and watch the display change to "Sx"... after a minute or so of calm driving it'll change back to "Ex"... x being the gear it's selected.

I imagine yours was doing something very similar.

Cheers,

KS

[sepheroth86]

How come APR offers the Stg 1 tune but no TCU tune for the ZF8? So I need to look into JHM, Melen, Berk, 034, IE, etc. and mix-and-match my tunes by having APR and some other brand TCU tune?

EDIT: Just got off the phone with APR and the gentleman said that they've been selling this tune for 10 years without a ZF8 tune and any problems he has heard of is because of the tranny or the mech unit, but probably something internal due to the clutches slipping.

I mixed and matched. It worked out fine.

JHM sells all stages and a TCU for around $1000.

Otherwise look at Jackal or 034 for a TCU file. I believe 034 sells the TCU file separately.

I expect that your transmission is fine and the software simply doesn't agree with the new power levels.

[Botbasher]

I mixed and matched. It worked out fine.

Whose did you end up going with?? Your sig says 034 but it sounds like you have different?

Cheers,

KS

[sepheroth86]

Car is APR stage 2 with EPL TCU... I did this many years ago before I knew any better.

I purchased 034 ecu/tcu, but have not uploaded the software at this time.

[MyDimeIsUp]

I'm going to do spark plugs hopefully today and I'll report back. Will also look into a TCU tune or moving over to another company that has an ECU/TCU bundle. Eyeing up 034 for the transfer discount.

One thing I did notice though while driving today is that I seem to have a dead zone where either the engine bogs or the tranny gets confused. Only happens once until I come to a complete stop and accelerate again. This is under normal acceleration from a stop and happens in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear, with the bog decreasing in intensity as gear is higher. Only happens in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear (By 4th gear I've already passed this dead zone). I didn't get a video but its what happens in this video at 18:38. Is this normal behavior on stock TCU/a problem with the engine? Possible contribution to what feels like clutch slippage when it hits this "dead zone" under hard acceleration?

Also when it felt like my tranny went into neutral and the revs jumped all the way up before going into second gear, I think what Botbasher said is right since it seems when in 1st gear, VAGCOM reports a max torque from the TCU to be 416nm. Once out of 1st gear, the max torque the TCU will take then goes to 600nm+. 1st gear pull may output more than 416nm and it throws itself into its safe mode until engine torque goes down and then shifts into second. If its the engine bogging, I guess there is less than 416nm, the engine then bogs, and when power returns it quickly shoots past 416nm and the tranny cuts power.

Who the hell knows. I'm either looking at an engine bog problem, a need for a TCU tune, possibly both of those, or possible internal tranny problems (which I'm now leaning away from). One step at a time I'll report back.

https://youtu.be/CosN1hB6mo8?si=71KOqJ38-S0xao2q&t=1118

[MyDimeIsUp]

Did spark plugs and definitely feels snappier but still getting that lug when accelerating from a stop. Going to contact 034 about getting a transfer discount with the ECU and TCU combo.

[A6sport]

Hey all,

I got my 3.0T stage 1 APR tuned this past Monday and was really excited, however I am experiencing some very odd transmission behavior. In 1st gear it seems like the tranny is slipping and also produces this whine/light grind sound (I'm not sure how to describe it). I feel scared to give the car a lot of power coming from a stop and dare I even try launch control/AMax. I have 110k miles and just did a tranny and center diff service this past Thursday (4 days before my tune).

I threw the car on my lift, drained the fluid, filled up with Lifeguard 8, heated fluid up while running through P, N, R, and D, and topped off while car was running in park. Finally I cleared system-specific adaptations, did a quick adaptation, and followed Audi SSP 385 by coasting slowly in 1 - 4 gear and holding 5, 6, 7, and 8th gear at 1,600 - 2,100 while not exceeding 100nM for about 2.5 - 3 miles. Car drove perfectly and in fact was a lot smoother. I followed erWin and the Audi SSP to a T (and people give me shit for being a stickler for the erWin instructions but I always believe there is a reason why the engineers tell you to do something a certain way)

Come Monday, car is tuned and I start driving it and it doesn't seem to like 1st gear power so I figure I'll take it easy. I keep trying to give it a little power in 1st gear and it just feels horrible. I want to reiterate the car felt perfect after I performed the tranny fluid and adaptation. It only started feeling like this once the APR tune was applied.

I have double-checked the fluid level by removing the fill plug when between 35C - 45C and it starts to come out so it is not low on fluid. Car drove fine prior to tranny service, I performed it in anticipation of the tune, and drove better. After the APR tune it now performs horribly in 1st and 2nd.

Has anyone experienced this? Is this something I should reach out to APR about and for those that have had to reach out to APR in the past, what were they able to offer? I am very worried about possibly needing a new tranny after this tune but if it is required, does APR honor their warranty for APR Plus? I fear the worst but want to double-check first.

My only other guess could be spark plugs. I had planned to do them prior to my APR tune but didn't get the chance and my tools are still in my cart at work, but it feels more like the tranny. I can update when I get to do spark plugs (hopefully this Saturday)

Thanks all.

Here are videos of what I am experiencing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kneLOquqnik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B51jNVeu7g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p4AQkA8VWA

I'm going to tell you what no one else has... you serviced the transmission... You said it yourself, "there is a reason why engineers tell you to do or not do certain things. The issues you describe are exactly what happens when the slushbox is serviced with fresh, slippery, smell-good fluid. I'm guessing the ECU tune had nothing to do with the transmission. When you tune the TCU, it will probably get worse. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is exactly how it works with Audi transmissions. I hope I'm wrong for your sake, good luck sorting it out.

[MyDimeIsUp]

I'm going to tell you what no one else has... you serviced the transmission... You said it yourself, "there is a reason why engineers tell you to do or not do certain things. The issues you describe are exactly what happens when the slushbox is serviced with fresh, slippery, smell-good fluid. I'm guessing the ECU tune had nothing to do with the transmission. When you tune the TCU, it will probably get worse. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is exactly how it works with Audi transmissions. I hope I'm wrong for your sake, good luck sorting it out.

If this is the case, how come ZF actively recommends a fluid change? It isn't an Audi transmission so much as a ZF transmission. I haven't heard of anything bad coming from a fluid drain and refill from anyone in the C7/B8 community. I did a fluid change on my B8.5 allroad at around 130k miles and didn't have any issues with the 30k miles I drove it until I was t-boned at ~165k miles.

I know the 2012 C7 and 2013 B8 had wonky TCU files from the factory with harsh upshifts and downshifts when slowing, so much so that a TSB (37 13 84 2029305/7) was released with updated TCU software to flash if a customer complains about it. Don't take this as me attacking you for raising the possibility of something worse happening, but I haven't heard of any bad stuff happening following a tranny drain and fill on the ZF8 within the C7/B8 community. APR rep I talked to said he hasn't heard of any transmissions self-destructing except for those pushing unbelievable amounts of power, aka custom tunes that people get for their C7 3.0T. He actually asked if I had replaced my tranny fluid and said it is definitely recommended regardless of milage. My buddy that works as a tech at Audi and the parts guy both said a fluid drain and refill, even on higher mileage cars, has not had any negative effect on shifting quality following an adaptation (though they said these were on cars after MY2012, cars that came with the better TCU tuning from the factory)

What I'm thinking is since I have the original TCU flashed from the factory for MY2012, that it already was tuned poorly from the factory and the ECU flash has only made it worse. I reached out to 034 about the transfer discount so we'll see. Also reached out to Melen since he specializes in tuning TCUs.

[Optimus247]

Does your A6 have a re-learn for the tranny ...? After the new fluid ... maybe a re-learn command was needed ...??

After my ECU and Tranny tune upgrade ... I had to wait for the TCU to relearn the new pressure values ...

my $0.02

[Jake@JHM]

We frequently perform ZF fluid changes without issue as well.

It's possible that your trans just needs a little help to hold the power due to the condition/wear of your clutches. We have seen slipping cars be able to hold the power after getting the TCU software, and we have seen cars with transmissions that were too far gone to make a difference.

We offer then TCU software separate as well as the ECU/TCU combo. We also have a promotional 30% discount for those switching from another brand software to our combo.

[MyDimeIsUp]

Does your A6 have a re-learn for the tranny ...? After the new fluid ... maybe a re-learn command was needed ...??

After my ECU and Tranny tune upgrade ... I had to wait for the TCU to relearn the new pressure values ...

my $0.02

We frequently perform ZF fluid changes without issue as well.

It's possible that your trans just needs a little help to hold the power due to the condition/wear of your clutches. We have seen slipping cars be able to hold the power after getting the TCU software, and we have seen cars with transmissions that were too far gone to make a difference.

We offer then TCU software separate as well as the ECU/TCU combo. We also have a promotional 30% discount for those switching from another brand software to our combo.

Thanks guys. I can't imagine that my tranny is just dead. The last owner was a mom who owned it since 2014 and mostly did highway driving in NJ. Checking the TCU, it also shows that they drove in normal non-sport mode and non-tiptronic mode, aka normal "D", for about 98% of the time. I talked with Melen and he suggest I triple check the fluid level and if it looks good then to every-so-slightly overfill the tranny since there may be a solenoid that isn't getting enough pressure. After this though, a TCU tune is definitely something I'm going to do and switch to another brand. I'm going to get the car back to stock, and if all is well, move to a brand with an ECU/TCU combo.

JHM that 30% discount is very enticing. I'm looking at the at-home tuning companies that offer a dongle. I'll definitely do some research and go with a company. Jake if I decide to go with JHM, I'll reach out to you.

Thanks for all your help so far.

[Jake@JHM]

Thanks guys. I can't imagine that my tranny is just dead. The last owner was a mom who owned it since 2014 and mostly did highway driving in NJ. Checking the TCU, it also shows that they drove in normal non-sport mode and non-tiptronic mode, aka normal "D", for about 98% of the time. I talked with Melen and he suggest I triple check the fluid level and if it looks good then to every-so-slightly overfill the tranny since there may be a solenoid that isn't getting enough pressure. After this though, a TCU tune is definitely something I'm going to do and switch to another brand. I'm going to get the car back to stock, and if all is well, move to a brand with an ECU/TCU combo.

JHM that 30% discount is very enticing. I'm looking at the at-home tuning companies that offer a dongle. I'll definitely do some research and go with a company. Jake if I decide to go with JHM, I'll reach out to you.

Thanks for all your help so far.

Yes, incorrect fluid levels or even if wrong fluid levels used can cause issues.

Sounds good, let me know. We have been offering at home flashing since 2013

[Mikedd]

As suggested by others, your first step should be flash back to stock ECU tune.
Then floor it from stand(give it all the beens it has) and you will see if you still have any issue with transmission.
Flashing back to stock and checking transmission behaviour before spending $$ to flashing something else is the way to go.

[MyDimeIsUp]

Alright so good news update. I threw my car back on the left and following advice from Melen, I added more fluid so the tranny was ever so slightly overfilled. What is odd though is that with the fill plug removed and at 38C, no fluid came out. I pumped some more fluid in and it took about about 100mL. Thereafter a little dribbled out. Grabbed another bottle and slightly overfilled it. Car shifts a lot better under power. I still haven't done a WOT pull but it took more than 1/2 throttle (about 5/8) pretty well. I'll do a WOT pull tomorrow once everything is a temp and report back. I still get that little dip in power when accelerating from a stop which is odd but looks like normal behavior with 2012 TCU file as I saw another video with the exact same dip when accelerating.

Needless to say though, I need a TCU tune if all goes well tomorrow. When attempting to shift in manual mode with 5/8 throttle, the transmission shifts slower probably due to the higher torque. It doesn't feel bad like the past week, just not enough pressure on the clutches to engage quickly. Also hopefully fixes that weird dip in power when accelerating. I'm going to get flashed to stock hopefully tomorrow (Shop I got tuned with said they've never handled an APR refund nor even knew about the 30 day refund policy)

[Jake@JHM]

Alright so good news update. I threw my car back on the left and following advice from Melen, I added more fluid so the tranny was ever so slightly overfilled. What is odd though is that with the fill plug removed and at 38C, no fluid came out. I pumped some more fluid in and it took about about 100mL. Thereafter a little dribbled out. Grabbed another bottle and slightly overfilled it. Car shifts a lot better under power. I still haven't done a WOT pull but it took more than 1/2 throttle (about 5/8) pretty well. I'll do a WOT pull tomorrow once everything is a temp and report back. I still get that little dip in power when accelerating from a stop which is odd but looks like normal behavior with 2012 TCU file as I saw another video with the exact same dip when accelerating.

Needless to say though, I need a TCU tune if all goes well tomorrow. When attempting to shift in manual mode with 5/8 throttle, the transmission shifts slower probably due to the higher torque. It doesn't feel bad like the past week, just not enough pressure on the clutches to engage quickly. Also hopefully fixes that weird dip in power when accelerating. I'm going to get flashed to stock hopefully tomorrow (Shop I got tuned with said they've never handled an APR refund nor even knew about the 30 day refund policy)

the 2012 is a little different. Mine is a 12 as well and it doesn't behave quite the same as the other years.

This videos a couple years old, but you can see how my car shifts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vth-zc1WUHk

[Tuneme]

I have the APR stage 1 as well, while I dont see feel the transmission cant handle the new power it is a tad rougher is certain situations, which I was expecting since I didnt get the TCU tune.

Is there any issue getting the 034 or other TCU tune and pairing with APR stage 1? Ive heard to use Melon...

[Jake@JHM]

I have the APR stage 1 as well, while I dont see feel the transmission cant handle the new power it is a tad rougher is certain situations, which I was expecting since I didnt get the TCU tune.

Is there any issue getting the 034 or other TCU tune and pairing with APR stage 1? Ive heard to use Melon...

our TCU works great with APR ECU

here: https://jhmotorsports.com/jhm-zf8-tc...-sq5-3-0t.html

[sepheroth86]

I have the APR stage 1 as well, while I dont see feel the transmission cant handle the new power it is a tad rougher is certain situations, which I was expecting since I didnt get the TCU tune.

Is there any issue getting the 034 or other TCU tune and pairing with APR stage 1? Ive heard to use Melon...

our TCU works great with APR ECU

here: https://jhmotorsports.com/jhm-zf8-tc...-sq5-3-0t.html

I have EPL tcu with APR.

I expect that the JHM tcu file is wayyyyyy better than EPL's.

[Jake@JHM]

I have EPL tcu with APR.

I expect that the JHM tcu file is wayyyyyy better than EPL's.

Thanks for the kind words

[MyDimeIsUp]

Update. Got the car flashed back to stock and 1st gear pull is like it was before. Doesn't seem to jerk around and hasn't put itself into the so-called "neutral safety" where my engine free reved until I let off the gas. Transmission is acting just fine. However I am still getting the weird dip in power in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear (Occurs in D, S, E, and manual mode). I payed attention and noticed that it doesn't require me to come to a full stop. In fact when I'm slowing down I can actually feel a little "bump" (no gear change occurring) and when I try accelerating again I get the weird dip in power. If I don't feel this thump and accelerate I don't get the dip in power. I took another video, this time flashed to stock. Again I saw this weird dip in one other video so not sure if again its the weird programming of the TCU with early MY C7 cars. Anyone know what its about? I'm most likely going to go ahead with an ECU/TCU combo from this point.

[Mikedd]

At least you took the advice and put it to stock tune, to get more info.
As far as the power dip, in my opinion, life data from eg VCDS while you are driving is necessary to understand what is going on.
Perhaps some shop in your area which is doing VW/audi transmission rebuilds and/or tcu tunes could help with live diagnostic.
I would still be on alert, although you may not have any error codes, but either on mechatronics or clutch side could be a rising issue and it was intensified with the power up by ECU tune.
Without proper understanding of current technical situation of transmission, ECU/TCU combo is a bit long shot.

[WittyWookiee]

Could loss of power/bad shifts like OP is experiencing at all be related to timing chains? Maybe why it is skipping a gear? Just curious for anyone who may have insight?

[Botbasher]

Could loss of power/bad shifts like OP is experiencing at all be related to timing chains? Maybe why it is skipping a gear? Just curious for anyone who may have insight?

Chains, tensioners and adjusters should have the dash lit like a Christmas tree if they were involved in addition to the things you could hear!! I skipped 1 tooth on an intake cam one time. car ran ok but you could hear the beat was wrong and the ECU values were bouncing off the upper limits. If it was the chain, it would rattle, as we all know. Had 2 adjusters go flat and the motor ran OK to about 3500, then the ECU tossed codes for air ratio issues. Things like that are REALLY hard to miss. Our cars are really moniotored internally. it'll tell you when things are not good.

It's not skipping a gear... I'd say it's pausing for a fraction of a sec while parameters are met. He tuned it and the TCU was trying to learn that... now the TCU is waiting for increased power levels that aren't there... and trying to relearn to stock tune. Unless you tell it you are starting from zero, it'll take a bit to get back to what you knew before the tinkering began!! This is why we have short and long term trims in the ECU... daily changes and long term averages!

It could be like MikeDD said and the tune made something just a little worse.... or it could just be hyper-fixation on something that is related to re-learning. I'm betting #2.

Cheers,

KS

[WittyWookiee]

Chains, tensioners and adjusters should have the dash lit like a Christmas tree if they were involved in addition to the things you could hear!! I skipped 1 tooth on an intake cam one time. car ran ok but you could hear the beat was wrong and the ECU values were bouncing off the upper limits. If it was the chain, it would rattle, as we all know. Had 2 adjusters go flat and the motor ran OK to about 3500, then the ECU tossed codes for air ratio issues. Things like that are REALLY hard to miss. Our cars are really moniotored internally. it'll tell you when things are not good.

It's not skipping a gear... I'd say it's pausing for a fraction of a sec while parameters are met. He tuned it and the TCU was trying to learn that... now the TCU is waiting for increased power levels that aren't there... and trying to relearn to stock tune. Unless you tell it you are starting from zero, it'll take a bit to get back to what you knew before the tinkering began!! This is why we have short and long term trims in the ECU... daily changes and long term averages!

It could be like MikeDD said and the tune made something just a little worse.... or it could just be hyper-fixation on something that is related to re-learning. I'm betting #2.

Cheers,

KS

Appreciate the info! I see a lot about it being a problem. Have seen very next to none on posts in this sub regarding timing chain failure happening. Mostly just people getting them replaced.

[MyDimeIsUp]

I was rewatching old videos and noticed I actually had this dip in power prior to getting the tune. I got the car in May and June I put an intake on and recorded a video of the supercharger whine and it had that dip. I for some reason never noticed it so it's been happening prior to the tune. Again last owner really babied the car so I can't imagine actually tranny damage internally.

I would love to log data but OBDeleven has been saying they're going to add graphing for 4 years now, and still waiting. I may just grab VCDS but I would want the pro version for $600 unlimited VIN since I work on other people's VW cars and even at our shop when we do inspections on trade-ins I like to take my time with VW group cars.

[Botbasher]

I work on other people's VW cars and even at our shop when we do inspections on trade-ins I like to take my time with VW group cars.

You can use the basic VCDS on as many cars as you want to... as long as you are just reading. They have stated that they don't want you to not be able to help your buddies diagnose issues... you just can't make changes (I think you can still reset other things like oil service) if they are not on your VINs.

I'm going to have to pick up the 10 pack here soon. Somehow I have managed to collect a lot of VAG cars in the last couple years. Never thought I'd need more than 3!

Cheers,

KS

[dragbug]

Update. Got the car flashed back to stock and 1st gear pull is like it was before. Doesn't seem to jerk around and hasn't put itself into the so-called "neutral safety" where my engine free reved until I let off the gas. Transmission is acting just fine. However I am still getting the weird dip in power in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear (Occurs in D, S, E, and manual mode). I payed attention and noticed that it doesn't require me to come to a full stop. In fact when I'm slowing down I can actually feel a little "bump" (no gear change occurring) and when I try accelerating again I get the weird dip in power. If I don't feel this thump and accelerate I don't get the dip in power. I took another video, this time flashed to stock. Again I saw this weird dip in one other video so not sure if again its the weird programming of the TCU with early MY C7 cars. Anyone know what its about? I'm most likely going to go ahead with an ECU/TCU combo from this point.

Not sure what trans you have but if it has a torque converter, it looks like to me that "dip in power" is from the TC locking up. I am used to driving diesel trucks and when I had my 2020 ram, there was almost like a second gear shift when the truck would shift to second gear. That was the TC locking up. Thats what your video reminds me of.

[MyDimeIsUp]

Not sure what trans you have but if it has a torque converter, it looks like to me that "dip in power" is from the TC locking up. I am used to driving diesel trucks and when I had my 2020 ram, there was almost like a second gear shift when the truck would shift to second gear. That was the TC locking up. Thats what your video reminds me of.

I was actually thinking about that. When slowing down it feels like the torque convert disengaging so I can roll to a stop and when accelerating again I guess its the torque convert locking up again, though not quickly. Thats why I'm here since I'm not 100% and wanted input from others. Other than that, the tranny is working perfectly.

[dragbug]

I was actually thinking about that. When slowing down it feels like the torque convert disengaging so I can roll to a stop and when accelerating again I guess its the torque convert locking up again, though not quickly. Thats why I'm here since I'm not 100% and wanted input from others. Other than that, the tranny is working perfectly.

Adding extra power can throw the TCU off for awhile. I know in my truck it did that and it took about 200 miles to relearn based on the new power after tuning. The particular truck i had, had a trans that had not been cracked so there was no tuning for it which meant shift points were going to be off as well and so the TC would lock or unlock based on stock programing which wasn't always ideal. Your trans should have a TCU tune available (my 2023 does not yet sadly) so I would get that done. Even if your clutches are slipping, the TCU tune should up the pressures a bit and may help...for a little while anyway.

[Botbasher]

And remember... your ECU is in ultimate control... it may be pulling timing, fuel or even closing the throttle body to match Requested and Actual outputs in not only it's tune, but from the TCU as well! Some solid logging should answer that for you.

Many times I have logged an absolute Kick A&& run only to look at the log and see that despite my foot being on the floor, I was only using 70% throttle!!

There is a lot going on behind the scenes in the ECU, then you throw in the TCU and it's a whole new ball of worms!!

That it did it prior to the tune means it's the "norm" for you. If you get a TCU Tune and it still does it, then I would dive deeper into the cause. OTS tunes have limitations as to what they can/will correct, but that sounds like a "tunable" problem!

Till then, I'd enjoy the ride as best you can!

Cheers,

KS