2006 A4 cabriolet 1.8t cct issues?

[Lukesnukem]

I have searched all over and can't find the info I need.
A few days ago my wife was about to leave for work and the Audi had a really rough idle. She took my vehicle so the Audi has not been driven since the issue. I have ran in idle with some revs too.
Scanning first brought up 16395 bank 1 camshaft retard set point not reached over advanced p0011.
I cleared the code and started again, same rough idle but code was then 17748 Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation
P1340-001 Upper Limit Exceeded.
It also had a p0300 and p0301. Tried new plugs and coil packs but misfire stayed in cylinder 1. I did compression check, 150 psi in all but cylinder 1 which had 0.
Pulled valve cover to check cam timing. Exhaust cam and crank are in time, counted 16 rollers and the intake cam notch looks just a little past the arrow. When I rotate the crank by hand the CCT does go up and down but makes a loud pop noise. When looking at the intake cam while rotating there are some points where it seems to not spin at all but the exhaust one does. After a few rotations and all exhaust/crank timing lined up I don't even see the notch on the intake cam now.
Looking in cylinder 1 spark plug when at TDC I tried blowing I the compression tool and do not feel any loss of air.
Question: can the CCT be so broken where the intake cam doesn't move and get really far off timing?
Would replacing the CCT and making sure intake cam is in time fix the issue?
Do you think with intake cam not rotating at some points that I vent valve/s?
Desperately seeking advice.
Thanks in advance.

[EuroxS4]

Timing over advanced is normally related to oil pressure or sludge in the engine or a bad CCT. I would redo your compression test. 0 compression normally means valve train issue or bottom end issue. As long as the timing belt is intact and the chain driving the intake cam is ok and the engine has oil in it there should be no issues.

[Lukesnukem]

Thanks. At this point I'm pretty sure it's the CCT. When turning by hand I see the tensioner go up to a point where the intake cam stops turning, then there's a pop and the tensioner drops, then turning the crank the intake cam will start turning again. I see oil coming up to the cams when turning by hand so I don't think its sludge.
Car has like 130k miles. Timing belt was done at 120k, wife has been complaining about low power(acceleration) for about a week before this happened.
Tempted to get the cheap ass $38 CCT that's in Amazon just to see if that helps. Either that or see if a salvage yard has a used one I could pick up cheap.
The part number on my CCT is 058109088e do I have to get that number or is the K version better?

[EuroxS4]

Don't bother buying cheap china garbage. Its not gonna work. Get a good factory part.

[Lukesnukem]

I don't want to cheap out but the only new oem one I can find near me is from the Audi dealer for $900. I can't afford that.
Anyone know of a place that sells one that I can trust for any cheaper? I might be able to afford like $150. Though I don't want to spend that much if it's not going to fix the issue.
Would it be better to go to a salvage yard and pull one from a wrecked car? Think they sell them for $20-50.

[Cybersombosis]

It’s normal to watch the intake cam not move when you are turning the exhaust cam. As the chain compresses the cam chain tensioner piston, once the tensioner piston bottoms out, the chain has no choice but to start rotating the intake cam. Your main concern at this point is why there is no compression on cylinder 1. There is no point in buying a CCT if your head needs to be rebuilt. Do like EuroxS4 says and take compression on cylinder 1 again. Do a visual on the CCT pads and make sure both are there and in one piece rather than missing and in pieces. This is what one looks like when they are totally worn out.

IMG_8282.jpg

[Lukesnukem]

I do see both pads are there and intact, both are a dark brown/orange color. There is a slight groove forming on the pads.
Will the intake cam timing mark always line up when all the other marks are lined up?
When turning by hand it gets really hard to move when the cct is at the top, once it pops and drops it's allot easier.
I'll try to get a video of the cct and cams when turning the crank by hand. Maybe post on YouTube and share the link here.
I know it takes 2 complete rotations on the crank for the exhaust cam to line up, when I do that I don't see the intake notch at all.
I'm afraid to turn the engine over with the cams out of time.
I guess I'll go back to auto zone and switch the compression tester for a leak down tester.

[Cybersombosis]

Take pictures whenever you are in there. It helps us and you when you have to go back and reference. The mark should be there. If it isn’t then somehow your timing is off. The damage is already done if something broke. It could potentially be broken or completely worn down cam sprocket and now doesn’t turn with the engine. When turning by hand, you are trying to overcome the pressure from the valve springs when each cam lobe is forcing it down. It’s normal to feel the most resistance right before the lob hits its apex then flop over with a pop.

[Lukesnukem]

Ok I just checked it out again and recorded a video. Video will be on YouTube linked below.
I turned the crank a few revolutions and both cams finally lined back up. But I continued rotating and the intake cam went off timing again. I noticed when the CCT extends all the way up and then pops down the exhaust cam rotates but the intake does not.
Im afraid my exhaust cam sprocket is worn. Does it look worn to anyone else?
Could a bad cct cause a worn cam sprocket?

https://youtu.be/rfP203aARco?si=7jqCXtTNoF__EpH0

[grayjay]

Exhaust cam sprocket does look very worn in comparison to the intake sprocket and it does look to me like chain is jumping and intake cam is going out of time. I would highly suspect that intake valves are getting bent.

[Cybersombosis]

Yep. The exhaust cam is turning and skipping all over the place. You can confirm that just by looking at the exhaust cam gear and see if it’s skipping on the chain. I can’t see how a tensioner would cause a cam to wear down. You are going to need a new head.

[Lukesnukem]

Ok thanks. Going to try a leak down test and fingers crossed(but doubtful) the valves are not bent.
Will probably get a used head from a salvage yard.
If compression tests good could I just swap the exhaust cam from a salvaged head?
If so would I use the cam bearing caps that are on my current head or from the salvage head?
Would I need to swap both intake and exhaust cams?

[Gunnarrrrr]

for the cct tbh i’d be more comfortable getting a junkyard oem cct off an 04 or 05, and swapping the pads. you can find a pair on ebay new for like $10. it’s not a part you can buy oem unfortunately.

swap your old cams over to the new head if they aren’t scored or anything. I have a couple heads laying around but they’re all AEB.

pay $400 or so for a valve job on the junkyard head though, or at least pay the <$80 for decking and cleaning, they can check your head to see if the valves are sealing. they likely won’t be though. If you get a valve job do a whole set of valve seals, they’re only $0.50 each, and at the very least replace the 8 exhaust valve guides, they’re about $8 a piece. As long as the new head’s valves aren’t bent just reuse them and have them reground. Go AWM head though. AMB’s are too hit or miss. Don’t be like me and spend $2k on a high revving valvetrain and labor only to have it crack after 5k miles.


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[grayjay]

Ok thanks. Going to try a leak down test and fingers crossed(but doubtful) the valves are not bent.
Will probably get a used head from a salvage yard.
If compression tests good could I just swap the exhaust cam from a salvaged head?
If so would I use the cam bearing caps that are on my current head or from the salvage head?
Would I need to swap both intake and exhaust cams?

Given the wear on your exhaust cam sprocket, it is likely that the chain and the intake cam sprocket have already started wearing too. If you find that your valves are not bent and compression is OK to leave head in place, I would change the (likely worn) chain and intake cam too. The cam caps stay with the head and must be kept in same position since they are line-bored to the head. If you swap caps around, the cam bore will likely be out of line.

[Gunnarrrrr]

you can mismatch one cam cap, I did after I cracked one in half torquing it down too fast, and drove on it for years. no uneven wear or anything when I removed it. but no more than one, as mentioned they’re like-honed while installed from the factory.


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[Lukesnukem]

Haven't checked compression yet, probably tomorrow. I'm anticipating needing a head, at the least to pull cams and probably cct. What head should I look for at the salvage yard? I have an AMB now, Gunnarrrrr says to get the AWM.
Is there a specific one to completely avoid?
Is there a list somewhere rating the different options from Best to worst?

[grayjay]

Worst are the "coscast" heads that were subcontracted to cosworth. I think these came on 2004-2005 AMB? Problem is that coscast heads are extremely prone to cracking due to poor metallurgy. Earlier AMB heads were made in germany and did not have same cracking problem.

[Gunnarrrrr]

the downside to trying to hunt down a perfect germany stamped amb head is they’ll almost always be on 02/03 cars. you can find awm heads on any 04/05 passat and they’re all good to go. keeps the guess work out of it and it’ll likely be lower mileage. but either are good options, they’re the same in just about every way aside from the 3 letters stamped on it, comes down to whatever you have available.

as far as best to worst, they’re all 100% identical except for the coscast amb’s, those go straight in the trash. and also the heads from 058 b5 blocks won’t have sai ports. and then there’s AEB but don’t wanna confuse u anymore


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[Lukesnukem]

Ok now that I got an idea what I'm looking for I understand there is a special tool needed to remove the head. Is it the 10mm polydrive, T52, or the triple square one? Getting different answers all over the net.
Amazon and eBay bring them all up when searching Audi head bolt tool and Amazon reviews are all over the place.
Is there one that is relatively inexpensive (around $20) that will last, and where can it be purchased?
Also are the Fel-Pro head bolts at NAPA any good for $36?

Thanks for all your help. I wish I would have joined here when I first got the car.

[Gunnarrrrr]

i use whatever those bolts are that are $2 each on fcp euro. you need 10 of them. I think they’re from febi or elring or something. they aren’t triple square, just amazon search VW head bolt tool and buy it for under $10. If you plan on doing some future big turbo stuff or building your engine, or experimenting with large port heads, or even just keeping the car more than 5 years, save yourself some money now and get the ARP headbolt kit, which are reusable. Those ARE 10mm triple square though. I’ve reused the same set of them probably 6 times on one of my b6’s, and I’ve definitely saved a ton of money vs buying the $20 10 pack every time I swap heads or do bottom end work.


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[Cybersombosis]

We have used heads off a MK4 Jetta or Golf 1.8T. They all have VVT and SAI except for the AEB so that should give you more options.

[kwilson]

We have used heads off a MK4 Jetta or Golf 1.8T. They all have VVT and SAI except for the AEB so that should give you more options.

I have as well. I believe engine code AWP.

[Lukesnukem]

Well no tool rental place in my town has a leak down tester. Guess I'm buying a cheap one on Amazon($30-45). Need to get the 3366 tensioner tool as well as the head bolt tool anyways.

Has anyone used either the Atlin, Performance tool, or VIM tool brands of polydrive bit? Amazon reviews are contradictory, some say it works fine, others say the bit doesn't fit. Some show pics of the tip snapping.

[Cybersombosis]

I have used two brands off of Amazon and both snapped so I bought a Snap On tip and inserted it into the base from Amazon.

[Gunnarrrrr]

I finally snapped my amazon one after a dozen or so junkyard head pulls, it served me a good 5 years. I just grabbed the $10.99 one from performance tool the other day, it works so far.

Performance Tool W83182 1/2 Drive 10 Polydrive Head Bolt Socket Bit Compatible With VW, Audi https://a.co/d/1PrjoVF


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[Lukesnukem]

Dang. Just bought one on Amazon, it had the highest percentage of 5 star reviews. Also got the leak down tester and a pair of 3366 tools, will try to find a grade 8 bolt that's m6x1.0 at 110mm to replace the one in the 3366 tool, I'm afraid the cheap bolt will snap.

I assumed snap on would be crazy expensive. Just looked it up and the insert is only $15. If the one I got breaks I'll get the snap on tip and do like you did. Thanks for letting me know about the tips.

[Gunnarrrrr]

Dang. Just bought one on Amazon, it had the highest percentage of 5 star reviews. Also got the leak down tester and a pair of 3366 tools, will try to find a grade 8 bolt that's m6x1.0 at 110mm to replace the one in the 3366 tool, I'm afraid the cheap bolt will snap.

I assumed snap on would be crazy expensive. Just looked it up and the insert is only $15. If the one I got breaks I'll get the snap on tip and do like you did. Thanks for letting me know about the tips.

don’t bother finding a replacement bolt. the bolt isn’t the issue. the plastic snaps off looooong before the bolt will. I’ve been through 2 or 3 now. If it’s just a one time thing don’t worry about it. Otherwise, they have aluminum ones you can buy. 034 makes one for $60 or there’s knockoff ones for about $30.


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[Lukesnukem]

Can't ever seem to find what Im looking for searching. I'm trying to plan ahead for the possible cam swap. My Haynes manual says the cam bearing caps have a torque speck of 88 in/lbs. I have a 1/2" that's 10-150 ft/lbs, a 3/8" that is 100-750 in/lbs, and an old craftsman beam torque wrench that is 0-75 ft/lbs but it's non adjustable and the indicator is not zeroed.
Would the $20 Harbor freight

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Torque wrench work or is it too risky with calibration?

[Cybersombosis]

You’ll be fine with any budget 1/4” ratchet torque wrench that measures in inch lbs.

[codemode]

Can't ever seem to find what Im looking for searching. I'm trying to plan ahead for the possible cam swap. My Haynes manual says the cam bearing caps have a torque speck of 88 in/lbs. I have a 1/2" that's 10-150 ft/lbs, a 3/8" that is 100-750 in/lbs, and an old craftsman beam torque wrench that is 0-75 ft/lbs but it's non adjustable and the indicator is not zeroed.
Would the $20 Harbor freight

- - - Updated - - -

Torque wrench work or is it too risky with calibration?

Yup, they’re 10Nm. I used a budget 1/4”. Just make sure to use a quality torx bit!

[Puddin Tane]

...don’t bother finding a replacement bolt. the bolt isn’t the issue. the plastic snaps off looooong before the bolt will [yup]... They have aluminum ones you can buy...

Late to the show but here ya go:
Billet Aluminum 3366 CCT Tool
IMO tools that break, no matter how cheap, are a false economy

[Lukesnukem]

Struck out at the first salvage yard. Found a couple coscast ambs and a couple AWMs. Pulling spark plugs and borescoping they all seem to have marks on the cylinders. Pulled a couple exhaust manifold and the valves look bent. Guess I should have figured since none of them looked to have been in a collision.
Anyone know of an easier way to see if a head is good while on the vehicle without compression or leak down tests? There is nowhere for me to plug in an air compressor.
Still need to leak down the head on my car, I'm hoping it just needs cams, but I would like to get a complete head and try rebuilding it while still having a functioning car.

[Cybersombosis]

Even if it has bent valves you can rebuilt it with parts from your current head. The only thing you don’t want is a head that dropped a valve so I’d pick an AWM and buy it as a non working head and hopefully you can get it for dirt cheap.

[Gunnarrrrr]

I can guarantee that none of those valves are going to seal perfectly whether they’re bent or not. You’re buying it for the cast head only.

Spending a good 400 or so for a complete rebuild and milling + valve grinding is essential for ensuring that you’ll never have to touch the long block for the next 300k or so miles.

Just grab whatever awm that looks decent and be done with it. as long as it didn’t completely drop a valve and slice up the inside of it, you’re fine. you already have a full set of valves and springs, all you’re going to need to buy is guides and valve seals.

Don’t pay more than $90 (with cams) imo. that’s what I usually pay at mine. Any more than that, and you might as well pick up a rebuilt one online for 6-700, which is what you’ll end up spending after labor and seals.

for reference, here’s a valve I dropped a few months ago, as long as it doesn’t look like this you’re fine:
IMG_0324.jpg


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[Lukesnukem]

Probably a dumb question but if I have the intake cam completely removed the intake valves should be fully closed right? So with the leak down test if I hear air coming out the throttle body(while intake cam is removed) the intake valves are bent or something, right?
It's just weird since I did compression test and all but cylinder 1 had compression(150 psi) now with the cam off all cylinders are reading around 60-80% leakage.

2nd question. I know the coscast AMBs are not good, but if I just want the car stock would a rebuilt coscast AMB be ok? I might be able to get one for $250 that has Professionally Passed Pressure Test, Resurfaced, Fresh Valve Job, Fresh Valve Seals and VVT Gasket

$250 sounds allot cheaper than rebuilding the head on my car.

[grayjay]

Yes, with cam off the valves should all be closed. The middle intake valve is closer to the edge of the cylinder so it will get bent more that the outer two if your valves contact pistons. With the cam off, it should be fairly obvious if all the lifters are not at same resting height (due to valve bending). Might be that you bent more intake valves turning over the motor out of time after the original compression test.

Problem with the coscast heads it the poor metallurgy causing them to crack, even with stock use. Might be OK and cheaper for short term but a non-coscast head will likely last much longer without cracking and cost less in long run.

[Gunnarrrrr]

with a rebuilt coscast, you might as well just get a random head and deck it and slap it on. I actually have a junkyard awm head on one of my B6’s that I didn’t even have decked or anything. it was a bit of an emergency, just cleaned it carefully with a green 3m bristle disc and bolted it on with a fresh head gasket. no issues in 20k miles. If it starts burning some oil from leaky valve seals or something then i’ll probably get it rebuilt completely, but for now, it works. the valves probably don’t seal as perfectly as freshly reground valve seats from a rebuild but it’s good enough.

Try this at your own risk. make sure the valves at least visually look like they’re seating, you can do a pressure test to confirm. or pour some water in it. whatever you gotta do.

My suggestion of having a trusted local machine shop fully rebuild a junkyard head is only because it’s the best option, if you absolutely don’t want to have to remove the head for many years to come. but hey it’s just a 1.8, so if you don’t mind the head swap job and doing it at a later time when you have more spare cash to burn and some downtime for the car, go for it. do it with a decent junkyard awm and you can drop that same head off at the machinist when you’re ready.

Personally between cleaning off the gasket material from the block and replacing all gaskets and things I can get a head swap done and running in a single saturday in my garage, and i’m mostly concerned about the cost of wasted gaskets that can’t be reused (cct,vc,head gasket) and fluids and bolts. That easily adds up to almost $200 for everything.


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[Lukesnukem]

My problem is I don't have much money, what I have was being saved to move to another state. Also my HOA agreement specifically states I cant work on my car. Was really hoping I could just drop some cams in it doing a little at a time so nobody notices.
But if I have to put in service mode, drain all fluids, and disassemble the top half of the engine bay.... someone is going to notice. Then I'm looking at a fine and possibly getting towed.
Maybe I should put that rebuilt one on and then sell this car

[Gunnarrrrr]

yeah I would highly recommend just not paying the fines and also not paying your HOA fees until you move. this is not legal advice. fix the car. keep the hose turned on in case someone comes to bother you.


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[grayjay]

Get all the neighborhood car guys to make a stealth run for the next HOA board elections, then change all the bylaws to require every home to have at least one non-operational project car and start fining all the non-compliant Karen/Kens!