B12 Berryman Piston soak /Oil consumption

[Franny1978]

I watched a YouTube video where a guy fixed his oil consumption with a 24 hour piston soak

Has anyone else tried this he did it on 2 separate vehicles and it worked for both

[Allowencer]

It depends on what the true issue is. If it's a lot of carbon build up and you're a B8.5 or a late MY2012, thi could be a viable solution.

If you're an early B8, good chance you have the piston/piston ring clearance issue and this is not going to help at all.

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[Franny1978]

It depends on what the true issue is. If it's a lot of carbon build up and you're a B8.5 or a late MY2012, thi could be a viable solution.

If you're an early B8, good chance you have the piston/piston ring clearance issue and this is not going to help at all.

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How do I know which one I have ???

[Allowencer]

What year is your car? What is the build date?

Share as much detail as you have/know.

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[Franny1978]

What year is your car? What is the build date?

Share as much detail as you have/know.

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2012 Audi A4

[DrGER]

Do cars for the Canadian market not have this sicker (or its equivalent) affixed to the driver door sill ?

Build date here is June 2010. --g

[Allowencer]

Unsure, I imported mine from the US lol

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[Franny1978]

Do cars for the Canadian market not have this sicker (or its equivalent) affixed to the driver door sill ?

Build date here is June 2010. --g

Looks like mine was built Aug/2011

[Theiceman]

doesn't matter, they all have the same issue.. I don't think chemicals will fix anything. but I would love to be proven wrong .

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[Franny1978]

It depends on what the true issue is. If it's a lot of carbon build up and you're a B8.5 or a late MY2012, thi could be a viable solution.

If you're an early B8, good chance you have the piston/piston ring clearance issue and this is not going to help at all.

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What is the cutoff date of B8 or 8.5 looks like mine was Aug 2011

[Allowencer]

There really isn't a cutoff date. You're close but I would venture to assume you need the proper pistons and rings.

Do you have any precious records on the car?

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[Zuzuwu]

Did it on my 14 allroad and it cut the oil burning down from a quart per 200 miles to a quart per 3000 miles. It definitely works.


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[Theiceman]

Did it on my 14 allroad and it cut the oil burning down from a quart per 200 miles to a quart per 3000 miles. It definitely works.


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this is the first time I have ever heard of any product working on this problem.. do you have more info ?.

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[Allowencer]

this is the first time I have ever heard of any product working on this problem.. do you have more info ?.

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Like I mentioned earlier, if it's a late EA888.2 or EA888.3, it isn't a piston/ring tolerance issue. If driven like a baby, and/or driven on very short consistent trips, carbon can easily build up on the piston rings and combustion chamber. This will add gaps and spaces allowing oil to get by and be burned. Breaking down the buildups and burning it off can greatly improve the issue.

It it's early to mid year EA888.2 blocks, it's the piston issue.

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[Theiceman]

Like I mentioned earlier, if it's a late EA888.2 or EA888.3, it isn't a piston/ring tolerance issue. If driven like a baby, and/or driven on very short consistent trips, carbon can easily build up on the piston rings and combustion chamber. This will add gaps and spaces allowing oil to get by and be burned. Breaking down the buildups and burning it off can greatly improve the issue.

It it's early to mid year EA888.2 blocks, it's the piston issue.

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gonna have to agree to disagree on this one ...but I want to hear what he says

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[silver_tt]

Short trips causes carbon buildup on the intake valves not in the combustion chamber. Even when I change my oil after 2,000 miles and didn’t take any short trips it still comes out of this 2.0T pitch black

[Allowencer]

Short trips causes carbon buildup on the intake valves not in the combustion chamber. Even when I change my oil after 2,000 miles and didn’t take any short trips it still comes out of this 2.0T pitch black

100% it does. Look it up.

This isn't an assumption here gents. VAGs can have this issue. YouTube it. Google it. It's well documented. I've seen it myself.

I have nothing to gain out of this, remember that.

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[silver_tt]

Only to the extent that on cold start / short trips the engine will run richer, which can produce more soot in the oil which can clog the rings. All direct injection engines produce soot. Like I said though, even with short OCIs and never taking short trips my oil comes out pitch black… this is soot.

[Theiceman]

Gen 1 engine was never used in Audi's in n/a at least and did not use low tension rings and this has never been a reported issue on vw or that engine , only VW and had no variable valve lift . gen2 had low friction rings, which all b8s have. gen 3 is used on b9.

that aside my car was a 401 car and racked up 233k km in 5 years. not driven like a pussy and rings were totally clogged.. and thousands of cars are driven lightly and do not clog rings at all
Plus the fact forums are filling up now with b 8.5s. with oil consumption. doubt these were all just driven at 20km/ hr which I don't believe causes it anyway.

Not trying to start a huge debate, just my observations and opinions.

an article below for reference

https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=119




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[Perry01]

Gen 1 engine was never used in Audi's in n/a at least and did not use low tension rings and this has never been a reported issue on vw or that engine , only VW and had no variable valve lift . gen2 had low friction rings, which all b8s have. gen 3 is used on b9.

Aren’t the A3, Q3 and TT considered Audis? They all have a EA888.1 engine.

Yea, I know, transverse motor, Haldex awd, etc.etc.

[Theiceman]

Aren’t the A3, Q3 and TT considered Audis? They all have a EA888.1 engine.

Yea, I know, transverse motor, Haldex awd, etc.etc.

of course yes.. but I was talking in reference to this forum.. the A4 B8.

I think those are all built on the VW line actually. with good rings

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[Allowencer]

Not sure why Gen1s were brought up lol. I didn't mention it haha

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[Theiceman]

just differentiating different gens.

gen 1 no low tention rings
gen 2 low tension rings
gen 3 who knows . but I'm hearing of oil consumption issues there now too from time to time

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[Allowencer]

Gotcha

The issue with the early gen 2s though isn't the oil rings so much. It's the top 2 compression rings too. The piston to wall clearance was too much. The rings used where based on a tighter, what was expected to be, tolerance. It allowed a larger ring gap. Leak down and compression tests wouldn't show an issue. However, under dynamic load, the rings would shift and move within their lands and cause not only additional blow by, but oil to pass through and get burned in the combustion chamber.

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[silver_tt]

Never heard anyone else mention the 2 compression rings as I am the only one that has noted this in the past. I am not aware of the clearance being too large, do you have more info on that? I am also not aware of any specific differences in the compression rings but if you just think about the whole thing it makes sense. As mentioned the gen2 oil control ring is also used in diesel engines as well as my Porsche 911 Turbo (996) and it doesn't have oil consumption issues. If the compression rings are doing their job well, you should not be getting a lot of blow by and contamination of the oil control ring.

[Allowencer]

When the pistons are swapped out, they get new rings. The rings are a different P/N than the first; I believe a different revision.

I have my old pistons and could measure them if someone has original gen 2 [bad] pistons that could be measured.

I can also take a pic of the rings too. Give me a bit.

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[silver_tt]

thanks... yes i knew they got new rings but wasn't sure if the compression rings were in fact different in any way. just a suspicion but I suspect this must be part of the problem. this is the reason I would go with gapless rings if I ever needed new rings.

[Allowencer]

thanks... yes i knew they got new rings but wasn't sure if the compression rings were in fact different in any way. just a suspicion but I suspect this must be part of the problem. this is the reason I would go with gapless rings if I ever needed new rings.

100% rings are and can be a large factor to oil, compression, power, etc issues. I've built enough engines to advise on this.

Gapless only exists on the oil side. Even then, there is a "too large" gap limit.

Almost all compression rings must have a gap. Gapless really comes into play when it's a very specific application and the manufacture built the rings to that exact application.

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[silver_tt]

100% rings are and can be a large factor to oil, compression, power, etc issues. I've built enough engines to advise on this.

Pretty much everyone with an opinion on this matter is saying rings are a factor. In this sub-discussion I was focusing specifically on the top 2 rings, the compression rings. Usually people are focusing on the bottom oil control ring (which is actually 3 rings in the case of the flex vent style).

Gapless only exists on the oil side. Even then, there is a "too large" gap limit.

Almost all compression rings must have a gap. Gapless really comes into play when it's a very specific application and the manufacture built the rings to that exact application.

Even "gapless" rings have a gap -- there has to be some gap, of course. Gapless isn't just for a specific application really. If you ask Total Seal they would tell you all these engines should have gapless rings if you want less blow-by, lower fuel dilution, less oil contamination, etc.

[silver_tt]

Gapless only exists on the oil side. Even then, there is a "too large" gap limit.

Total Seal has gapless top and gapless 2nd.

https://www.totalseal.com/rings/gapless-rings

A Gapless® top provides the greatest performance benefit (increased horsepower and crankcase vacuum). However, a Gapless® 2nd provides excellent oil control and blow-by prevention (less oil consumption). As such, we typically recommend a Gapless® top for naturally aspirated applications, especially V8 and straight engines. For flat (horizontally opposed) engines and turbo or super-charged engines, we recommend a Gapless® 2nd. Most Total Seal® piston ring styles are available in Gapless® configurations.

[Allowencer]

I didnt specify, I did mean "compression" rings (not just the oil ring) in my previous reply. We're on the same page

How'd I know you were going to pull up Total Seal's rings lol. I've installed them, they are fantastic! The sizing though is based on the application. It's not a "one part fits all".

I did ask Total Seal if they have gapless for our EA888s, they did not (at least 2 years ago). I'm running Total Seal performance rings in my build right now.

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[silver_tt]

:) Total seal is awesome.

That is interesting, I reached out to them recently for fun and it sounded like they did have a ring set for the 2.0T now but not 100% sure since I didn't go completely down the path since I don't need to buy it at this point. If I ever rebuilt my engine that is def the way I would go as well...

[Allowencer]

:) Total seal is awesome.

That is interesting, I reached out to them recently for fun and it sounded like they did have a ring set for the 2.0T now but not 100% sure since I didn't go completely down the path since I don't need to buy it at this point. If I ever rebuilt my engine that is def the way I would go as well...

Did you tell them EA888.2?

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[silver_tt]

Yes I did. Surprised they didn't have anything even two years ago -- what is it about the engine/bore they don't have it for? It sounded to me like they had it but not 100% sure, where I left it was if I was going to move forward I would mail them the pistons to be 100% sure everything is correct (would cost me hardly anything)

[Zuzuwu]

this is the first time I have ever heard of any product working on this problem.. do you have more info ?.

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Oil burning issues are super common on gdi engines because the piston rings get packed with carbon. I work for hyundai and this is the recommended treatment procedure and it works 90% of the time so i figured I’d give it a shot on the ar and it worked great. Just an overnight piston soak with b12, did two rounds because i wasn’t satisfied after the first one. Been like 15k miles since doing it and the issue hasn’t returned


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[beatsageo]

The B12 chemical cocktail uses Cl, Br, and F compounds to break down carbon based compounds. If the problem in a particular engine (a) is the oil control ring lands are fouled, it is possible for B12 to help clear the ringlands enough to allow oil to once again flow back down under the piston. If engine (b) for example has excessive blow by and enlarged ring gap, B12 is not going to help. So the answer is it depends on the cause for the oil burning whether carbon/byproduct removal will help or not. B12 is not going to permanently fix an engine if the engine is a burner, but could help temporarily. B12 is pretty toxic, and burning oil long term is pretty bad as well. IMO it would be best to fix the issue with new piston/ring hardware.

[Allowencer]

^ these last 2 guys know what's up.

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[m95roadster]

B8.5 success...
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...il-Consumption

[Theiceman]

B8.5 success...
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...il-Consumption

well some measure of success,, and that is great but even op on this said it was better but not fixed, I understand this is the way to go for some and I think this same measure of success is likely on all b8s if you are lucky, I hope to see more of this

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[AudiTLC]

I was suggested Berryman's by another forum member, so I tried it and it actually has been working. No oil burning or it's significantly less.
I'm surprised because I'm skeptical about these things... It's only been a short time but i'll see how it does the next few oil changes.

One thing not mentioned in the videos I saw- pull the fuel pump fuse (ds dash) so you don't just spray fuel when cycling the motor without plugs.

I'm cautiously optimistic.