Oil Change using Oil Extractor Pump Question

[quanttrom]

This is my first time doing an oil change on a 2014 Audi A4 B8. I wanted to make sure that the oil extractor pump gets most/all of the oil out. I warmed up the engine and started extracting the oil using the dipstick hole. Meanwhile I removed the oil filter and waited until the oil extractor was sucking in air. I lifted the vehicle up and once again tried to extra as much oil as possible using the oil extraction pump. I wanted to verify that all the oil is extracted so I removed the oil drain plug and managed to get at least another quart or 2 out through the drain plug at the bottom of the pan.

What am I doing wrong?

[Theiceman]

i dont use extractors, but it sounds like your tube is hanging up between the upper and lower oil pan maybe ?

i use the oil change to inspect underneath , take photos and make sue i dont have any leaks developing.

[StuckAntichris]

I think Iceman is right on this one, it sounds like the hose is not getting all the way down into the pan. I changed my oil yesterday and got 4.5 quarts out. When I did an engine rebuild I put 5 in initially and only ever get 4.5 out so I'll call that good.

That being said Iceman is correct in that inspecting the bottom of the car from time to time is a great idea to catch problems before they get any worse.

[beatsageo]

I had the same problem when I started using extractors, my 1/4" tube which I would feed down the dipstick tube would hit the bottom of the pan and then curl upwards if I was not careful. I used a heat gun to straighten the tube out as much as possible.

[silver_tt]

I always did drain and fill but now I am using an extractor only for this 2.0T because the engine is designed for it and because I am changing my oil every 2-3K miles which is like every 60 days for me. When I put the extractor tube down the dipstick hole and it goes to the bottom I can literally hear it "ping" when it hits the bottom of the metal sump. Ping, ping, ping..... got all 5 quarts out. That being said I will still put it up on a lift at least a couple of times a year.....replaced my engine splash shield in the driveway last weekend because the old one got damaged and it's only 10 mins of work but a PITA without a lift.

[quanttrom]

I am totally on board that inspecting the underside of the vehicle on regular basis is necessary and desired. I am still interested in doing the oil changes with an oil extractor since it can be less messy.

I tried and experimented with how far I should put the tube in by pushing it in as far as it would go, creating and maintaining suction and pulling it out slowly.

How far should I insert the tube? Is there a length measurement? Maybe in the FSM?

The only thing that I can think of right now.. I should have probably rotated the tube since maybe it curls sideways once it reaches the oil pan like beatsageo mentioned.

[Theiceman]

smac had a post a while back with the exact legnth..you could mark your tube and when you get it to the right depth stop. this will avoid the curling mentioned

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[silver_tt]

FWIW the length may be MY dependent….. I trust smacs measurement but when I checked it against my 2014 CPMB i got a slightly different measurement

[JLAllroad]

The first time I used my extractor I backed up my ramps, the next time I backed up my driveway, I get 4+ qts out, far more than with the plug. Additionally, I will throw a few ounces of fresh oil in (after I hit air), wasteful? Probably but I like to get it all. As was also mentioned, after I hit air, IMG_8771.jpg
I will adjust in/out to see if I’m curled at all.


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[A4B8 2.0tfsi]

Changing motor oil six times per year, is ..... Well it's just not necessary.

[Seal1968]

Old school here...OCI every 5,000 kms through drain plug. With an extractor you can't see if there are any metal shavings on the plug (I have a magnetic one on all my cars), and I really don't think you can get it all.

I let it drain for some time...2 beers? lol

Key is warmed oil as it drains better + like Iceman says you can check for leaks while you're under there.

Just my 2 cents (actually 1.5 cents for inflation) FWIW...I don't knock anyone's methods, to each his own.

[silver_tt]

My OCI is approximately every 5,000 kms as well. A big part of the reason that at 120K miles my 2014 2.0T burns no significant amount of oil.

[RockJGC]

I've always been against using extractors, but the 2.0T seems to be somewhat designed for oil extractors. The reason I say that is because the oil pan has a baffled section in it that helps keep the oil extractor's tube from curling back up once it reaches the bottom of the pan. The only tricky part is knowing when that tube is fully at the bottom of the pan.

I still prefer to do my oil changes the old fashioned way---pulling out the drain plug.

[Smac770]

It was 26" or so iirc. It's posted somewhere. Mine is a MY09 CAE engine. Silver I think ran 25.5" (?) for his B8.5 CPM engine. But if you got another quart or two out, you were not in the ballpark.

You should already have the engine warm and off, the oil filter removed, and the oil fill cap and oil dipstick tube cap removed. Give it some time to drain, then extract. Until the oil filter is unscrewed a number of turns, the drain for the oil cooler is not released.

[silver_tt]

It was 26" or so iirc. It's posted somewhere. Mine is a MY09 CAE engine. Silver I think ran 25.5" (?) for his B8.5 CPM engine. But if you got another quart or two out, you were not in the ballpark.

You should already have the engine warm and off, the oil filter removed, and the oil fill cap and oil dipstick tube cap removed. Give it some time to drain, then extract. Until the oil filter is unscrewed a number of turns, the drain for the oil cooler is not released.

I can't recall the exact " I was running but I looked and saw in my AW PM to you (thanks again for the recommendation) a month or two ago that I said was about 1-2" different than the number I saw from you. I obviously have faith in your measurement and I carefully measured as well, which ultimately led me to think that maybe the lengths can be slightly different based on MY.

As I mentioned you should be able to hear the "ping" when the hard tip of the extractor tube hits the bottom of the sump. And as others also mentioned, I just do it after a drive so the oil is hot, take off both the oil cap and oil filter, and then the extractor tube effortlessly goes in to the bottom. Even with the hand pump style I am using it just takes 30 seconds of pumping, go do something else for 5-10 mins, come back and pump again for 30 seconds and when you come back 5 mins later it's all done.

After seeing this design I also don't understand past posts I have seen where someone got the extractor tube stuck ??? I have seen this when the engine was not designed for use with an extractor and, for example, it can get stuck in the oil baffle. But in this case the engine is designed for it and the path to the sump seems completely unobstructed so unless you keep fishing the tube down too deep and it curls, I don't see how this is possible........

[mc_hotmail]

I can literally hear it "ping" when it hits the bottom of the metal sump.

@silver_tt What diameter of tube are you using, and where did you buy it?

[silver_tt]

The diameter of the tube is approximately 1/8". I am using the EWK that I got for $55 on Amazon a few months ago:

https://www.amazon.com/EWK-Extractor...0-4513d670b6bc

It is small, and has a pour spout which is perfect for pouring oil back in the bottle for returns.

Also, I can check the next time I do an oil change but I measured where the little black ball is on the extractor tube and I saw mine is at 27" right now -- but I can measure again next time to be sure that it didn't move by my messing with it putting it back in the box etc since I changed my oil a few weeks ago.

[Theiceman]

i just cant see how to length would be different on engines of the same gen, the only difference i see really is being in the intake area, unless the dipstick tube is longer to clear the intake manifold ?? but it still has to make it under the hood so i find it odd.. i wonder if the dipstick tube is the same part number ? i cant see anything at the bottom end being different.

[silver_tt]

I will change my oil here in a few weeks. Will measure again and post the " for my CPMB just to be sure.

[Theiceman]

I will change my oil here in a few weeks. Will measure again and post the " for my CPMB just to be sure.

outstanding

[A4B8 2.0tfsi]

i just cant see how to length would be different on engines of the same gen, the only difference i see really is being in the intake area, unless the dipstick tube is longer to clear the intake manifold ?? but it still has to make it under the hood so i find it odd.. i wonder if the dipstick tube is the same part number ? i cant see anything at the bottom end being different.

As a few that have their dipstick handle, cut to clear the hood, there's got to be difference between dipstick tubes on different cars.

[Theiceman]

As a few that have their dipstick handle, cut to clear the hood, there's got to be difference between dipstick tubes on different cars.

possibly , thats what i was wondering. my dipstick is black on the top where it hits the hood and i really should cut that handle off before it breaks the tube, thanks for the reminder.

[Smac770]

CAE engine, the oil pan changed Nov 21 '11, and the dipstick tube changed Jan 30 '12. So those would occur mid MY12 production. So all CPM would have the newer part revs. The upper oil pan also changed Mar 5 '14. So that would pretty much be for start of MY15 production.

But the only thing that's documented is the revision letter changed. Not that any physical change occurred. One would need both the old and new side by side to validate that claim.

What's most curious is that while CAE and CPM use all the same parts in this regard, the T40178 values for CPM and CAE are not the same. The CPM numbers are the same as the Gen3 numbers. So are the CAE numbers the >mid MY12 numbers, and the CPM numbers the mid MY12> numbers, for both CAE and CPM? Or did someone incorrectly copy the CNC numbers to the CPM lines? There's no real way to know how Audi screwed up this record keeping.

And it looks like all the Gen1/Gen2 2.0T are using the A3 dipstick tube now anyway: https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi__A5...6J115610L.html

[DrGER]

Adding to SMac's remarks, we find this in the 02.2013 edition of the A4 2008 > Maintenance Procedures document (D3E8026E6A4), p 56, regarding T40718 service values:

========================================
Engine                | Ring | Min | Max
----------------------------------------
2.0L TFSI (Version 1) |   39 |   0 |  24
----------------------------------------
2.0L TFSI (Version 2) |   32 |   0 |  27
----------------------------------------

Differences in 4-cylinder TFSI engines:
* Through and including MY 2011 only “Version 1” engines are installed.
* From MY 2012, engine codes CDHA, CDHB, CDNB, CDNC and CFKA have “Version 1”. For all other engine codes, the adjusting values for “Version 2” are applicable.

The 12.2016 edition (D4B80349E03) shows that the T40718 service values were removed in 11/2015, and moved to a separate document.

We find these now in Oil Gauge Tester T40178 Service Values (D4B805B9CE0), edition 11.2015:

============================================================
Engine Code                               | Ring | Min | Max
------------------------------------------------------------
CAB[AB], CAE[ABD], CDH[AB], CDN[BC], CFKA |   39 |   0 |  24
------------------------------------------------------------
CJEB, CNCD, CPM[AB]                       |   32 |   0 |  27
------------------------------------------------------------

These from PDFs obtained from erwin.audiusa.com in Aug '17. --g

[RockJGC]

possibly , thats what i was wondering. my dipstick is black on the top where it hits the hood and i really should cut that handle off before it breaks the tube, thanks for the reminder.

I purchased the ECS dipstick years ago and it doesn't hit the hood. It doesn't even make a mark in the hood insulation.

[Theiceman]

I purchased the ECS dipstick years ago and it doesn't hit the hood. It doesn't even make a mark in the hood insulation.

can you take a pic ? not sure how much to cut off mine was gonna leave a half circle

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[jn1kk]

My schwabben extractor has 2 tubes of different sizes. Wider tube gets maybe 3qt out, thinner tube goes down further and gets at least 4 out.

[Seal1968]

Well gents, I broke down and bought an extractor to see what all the fuss was about. I picked it up from Canadian Tire...even has the option to hook into my air compressor. It came with three tubes, the thinnest (blue) is likely 1/8 inch, and not quite 28 inches long.

Car was warmed up from a run, so I gave it a shot...used the blue tube, fished it down until the end and pumped the handle a dozen or so times. It pulled @ 4.5 litres out in 7 minutes while I was bbqing some burgers.

A quick top up/filter...wham bam thank you ma'am done. Given I change the oil every 4-5,000 kms, pretty friggin slick and a quick task without spilling a drop.

I'm sold...will still do a looksee plug drain every so often, but sure as hell easier than crawling on my back.

[silver_tt]

Nice, as SMac said to me when I bought the extractor he uses "welcome to the easy life" :). Sounds like you got a pneumatic one, those are great but even my dinky little hand pump one works great on this engine.

100% agree as I am also changing my oil every 2-3K miles. There is a saying in this business "oil's cheap, engines expensive". And ya, now I don't have to jerk around in my driveway with getting the splash shield on and off which really isn't that big of a deal but a PITA compared to the extractor where you do literally 3 mins of actual work and the rest of the time you are having a beer or BBQing burgers.

I also noticed you are one of the higher mileage 2.0Ts that doesn't have an oil consumption problem. I think that's because you change your oil often and knowing you, you are probably using something decent. One thing I find interesting is the ring design in this engine even with the pin holes is used in many types of engines including my 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo but also diesel engines. Yes, diesel engines. It makes me wonder if the top two rings on these pistons, the compression rings, let more blow-by through than other engines (even diesel engines are usually highly boosted). Because even diesel rings survive with this design but the compression rings are keeping most of the soot above the pistons. Changing your oil frequently is a solution to keeping the oil control rings clean since the oil gets very dirty very fast in this engine. And the extractor def makes that a walk in the park....

[Seal1968]

Agreed...OCIs must make a difference. I could be proven wrong, but we shall see. She just racked up 306,000 kms.

NB: I've seen a BMW mechanic post a piston/chamber soak treatment video with CRC carbon cleaner as a preventative maintenance thing: pour into spark plug holes, leave in over night to soak and filter down to the pan. It sure smoked like a MF when he started it the next day lol.

I've also seen CRC dissolve carbon on valves when doing a carbon clean, so it might do something in the combustion chamber with a soak. It literally bubbles and dissolves the carbon deposits on the valves. Placebo effect for a combustion chamber soak? Not sure, but it couldn't hurt to use for some sort of improvement in removing the gunk.

[silver_tt]

Nice, 190K miles that is very solidly into "high mileage", you are 70K miles ahead of me.

Yeah, even on some of the older engines with the flex vent ring design ("waffle ring") that got gummed up you could spray some Marvel Mystery oil down in the spark plug holes and let it sit. I think I saw JLAllroad post recently that his girlfriend's 3.0T was having oil consumption issues but he tried something similar to what you are describing and I believe he said it improved significantly.

[JLAllroad]

Nice, 190K miles that is very solidly into "high mileage", you are 70K miles ahead of me.

Yeah, even on some of the older engines with the flex vent ring design ("waffle ring") that got gummed up you could spray some Marvel Mystery oil down in the spark plug holes and let it sit. I think I saw JAAllroad post recently that his girlfriend's 3.0T was having oil consumption issues but he tried something similar to what you are describing and I believe he said it improved significantly.

I used LiquiMoly engine flush, had multiple 5k changes burning 3L, after the first flush it went down to less than 1.5L, did another flush, 2k miles in it hasn’t asked for any.

That said, on the 3.0T with over 7L in it’s very quick to “show” .5L down, like 500 miles, but now it’s just sitting there. This might be the oil stabilizing? Loss is less than 10%.

For reference I’m using LM high tech 5w-40, same as I use in the Allroad.

Speaking of the Allroad, she had a heart transplant last year with a low mileage (13k) complete Q5 CPMB, 5k usage is not measurable.


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[silver_tt]

Interesting if the LM flush worked. There is a guy on AW that was hijacking every thread because he bought a high mileage 3.0T (imported it overseas from the USA it sight unseen without a PPI, definitely a questionable decision given that the 3.0T drinks just as much as the 2.0T) and tried LM Flush after realizing it was guzzling oil and it did not work for him. He was drinking a lot more oil though so possibly his rings were at the point of no return. He definitely bought a car that someone dumped....

What did the allroad have in it before the transplant? You had to do the transplant at some mileage due to oil consumption? 13K is like a brand new engine.

[JLAllroad]

Interesting if the LM flush worked. There is a guy on AW that was hijacking every thread because he bought a high mileage 3.0T (imported it overseas from the USA it sight unseen without a PPI, definitely a questionable decision given that the 3.0T drinks just as much as the 2.0T) and tried LM Flush after realizing it was guzzling oil and it did not work for him. He was drinking a lot more oil though so possibly his rings were at the point of no return. He definitely bought a car that someone dumped....

What did the allroad have in it before the transplant? You had to do the transplant at some mileage due to oil consumption? 13K is like a brand new engine.

Allroad spun a bearing at 104k, owned since 29k with 5-6k OCI’s(from the pan), speculation would be fuel dilution, no codes, but oil glitter, previous Blackstone OA did not indicate metal wear, although she had 60k stg2 (2.0T E85) enjoyed and driven hard. She didn’t use any oil until around 85k, right after I proactively replaced the PCV with an OE AK, then .5L every 5k, interesting. Somehow this all probably saved me $$ as I was due for timing, main water pump, and planned carbon cleaning, injectors and HPFP.

On topic, the Q7 forced the extractor purchase, as draining from below splashed feet away from the pan, I’ve used it for both ever since, and done quite a few on the side, Audi is charging over $150 for 2.0T changes.


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[silver_tt]

Thanks. Sucks about the spun bearing but sounds like it actually worked out pretty well for you haha.....

[Seal1968]

I've been using Castrol Syntec 5W40 since I bought her with 211,000 KMs. Some will say the 5,000 (or less) OCIs didn't/don't prevent oil consumption, but the key might be what the OCIs were prior to you taking ownership. Only way to know for sure would be if you bought it new. My car had detailed service records and looked like it only had 50,000 KMs on her...could be that I got lucky.

Any way you slice it I think using CRC or LM to flush out certainly can't hurt.

[silver_tt]

Def agree. I bought my 2014 Q5 2.0T in 2017 CPO from a NJ Audi dealer with 45K miles on it so I have had control over it since fairly early in its life. That being said I know someone that has owned two 2.0Ts since new, a 2011 (?) and a 2015, and changed the oil every 3K miles with M1 0W-40 and both times it developed steep oil consumption issues around 90K miles. Sucks.....

[silver_tt]

It was 26" or so iirc. It's posted somewhere. Mine is a MY09 CAE engine. Silver I think ran 25.5" (?) for his B8.5 CPM engine. But if you got another quart or two out, you were not in the ballpark.

You should already have the engine warm and off, the oil filter removed, and the oil fill cap and oil dipstick tube cap removed. Give it some time to drain, then extract. Until the oil filter is unscrewed a number of turns, the drain for the oil cooler is not released.

You have a ridiculous memory. Yes I must have told you 25.5" because I changed my oil and measured again and to be as accurate as possible it's 25.25". This is measuring from the tip of the end of the extractor until the little rubber ball, which I had adjusted to be exactly where it's on top of the dipstick tube with the tube obviously inserted and hitting the bottom of the sump (doesn't quite make a pinging but you can definitely hear it tap when it hits). I have a USA 2014 Q5 2.0T CPMB. Extractor works like a charm, all the oil is out in just over 5 mins this time because I didn't leave to do go something else. 2,100 mile OCI this time and the oil came out looking pitch black as always....... that is soot from direct injection.

[vtraudt]

What dipsticks (year/model) can be used on the B8 and B8.5 2.0T?
Sources?

[Smac770]

Just google search on 06J115611L (or 06J115611E, the prior p/n rev). You'll get more hits than you know what to do with. First one, https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...mic-06j115611l

That's FCP Euro entry is not going to be an OE one at that price. That p/n is an actual Audi product, for the A3 transverse config, as the VW clones didn't get the Audi advanced maintenance concept thing, blah, blah. It's basically spot on for the longitudinal CAEB.

My image I made a long time ago and have posted various times:

Audi oil dipstick marks.png

If you go some third-party brand like ECS, you'll just have to do the physical measurement to see where the proper mark points would be. For CAE, it's 503 mm top to max and 527 mm to to min; for CPM, it's 507 mm top to max and 534 mm top to min.