Waht do you mean by a "bouncy suspension"?

[Dan99]

Years ago, when I was trying to find a suitable replacement for my Porsche 944, I test drove an Infinity Q35. I drove it across the same road I traveled in my 944 hundreds of times and the 944 never bounced. The Q35 over the same road was like a buckboard and it constantly bounced. I was on a concrete road in good shape. The front suspension would react to the seams in the road surface, then the rear, then the front, then the rear, and so on. So, it was like the front would bob up, then down, then the rear would bob up then down, and it would do this for every seam in the road surace. I did not buy the Q35.

I currently have a 2019 RS5 Sportback with 55K miles and have never experienced that sensation over that same road or others. My wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee also does not bounce on any roads. Today, however, I got a brand new A5 Sportback loaner when I took my RS5 in for service. I returned home over the same stretch of roads and Interstate that I travel all of the time. For the first time ever, I felt extensive bouncing, just like the Q35, and it occurred in all Drive Modes.

I'm wondering if this is what others mean when they describe the RS5 suspension as bouncy, and I'm wondering if this is for all model years or just the facelift years. For those that have the facelift RS5, it is "bouncy", or just harsh, or OK? If it's bouncy, can you describe what you mean?

[Zombie5150]

The best way I can describe the “bouncy” feeling is when I hit a slight dip in the road. The suspension absorbs the dip but then quickly kind of over-rebounds. Like it wants to push the car back up as fast as possible. I don’t get that when it’s a pothole or other slight road variation. I think it’s more pronounced as you go from comfort to auto to dynamic. I don’t really find it bothersome or anything, I just know it occasionally happens. I mostly drive in auto or comfort and usually pretty mellow so it’s not an issue with me. Most of my driving life I’ve driven big lifted trucks. From Toyota’s with front leaf springs to a full size GMC Crew Cab. Compared to those my RS5 rides like a Cadi.

[B6_Dolphin]

and I'm wondering if this is for all model years or just the facelift years. For those that have the facelift RS5, it is "bouncy", or just harsh, or OK? If it's bouncy, can you describe what you mean?

My '23 RS5 w/Competition Package, which has factory C/O suspension, definitely has a firm(er) ride, but that's why I checked the box for that option.

[Dan99]

My '23 RS5 w/Competition Package, which has factory C/O suspension, definitely has a firm(er) ride, but that's why I checked the box for that option.

I expect firm. I have just noticed a lot of people say bounce, and I never experienced bounce until today in my A5 Sportback loaner.

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[VVG]

The bounce is definitely most pronounced in Dynamic mode, where the rebound dampening of the shock absorber is inadequate, and the springs have extra oscillations as a result, after you go over a bump. You can really feel this in the rear suspension. I don't feel the front suspension has this problem to the same degree. I think the RS5 DRC suspension was designed to primarily function in comfort and auto modes, with dynamic really reserved for a track or really smooth roads. I find comfort in the suspension setting to be great and auto fine for more spirited driving. Dynamic is borderline unusable because of the bouncy underdamped nature, not because of the harshness. Honestly, it makes me a bit nauseous at times.

[ywang98]

Look at some YouTube videos reviewing the RS5 with DRC. You'll see the drivers bounce up and down. Mine bounces so hard at a certain road, my ass is actually off the seat, then my neck kind of gets molested by that action.

[Dan99]

Look at some YouTube videos reviewing the RS5 with DRC. You'll see the drivers bounce up and down. Mine bounces so hard at a certain road, my ass is actually off the seat, then my neck kind of gets molested by that action.

I've never experienced this over 55K miles in my B9 RS5 Sportback, and I have driven over much of the US and into Canada. I'm wondering if it's the B9.5 models that bounce. I will say the Dynamic in the B9 is too harsh for the street, but there's no bounce. The B9.5 A5 Sportback bounced.

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[ywang98]

Yes, mine is a B9.5, MY2021.

In auto, the car drives just fine. However, if I am doing some serious corners, Dynamic is still better, even though it bounces.

I had an R32 (2008), and I put some coilovers on that car. It is damn harsh, but it doesn't bounce. Come to think of it, it is really the rebound action that is not controlled well in the B9.5 DRC in Dynamic.

I think if I kept this car for 10 years or more, then eventually I'll upgrade the suspension. I do have a 7 year extended warranty.

[Dan99]

Yes, mine is a B9.5, MY2021.

In auto, the car drives just fine. However, if I am doing some serious corners, Dynamic is still better, even though it bounces.

I had an R32 (2008), and I put some coilovers on that car. It is damn harsh, but it doesn't bounce. Come to think of it, it is really the rebound action that is not controlled well in the B9.5 DRC in Dynamic.

I think if I kept this car for 10 years or more, then eventually I'll upgrade the suspension. I do have a 7 year extended warranty.

My impression of the B9.5 A5 was that shock compression was too firm. When I hit a seam in the concrete highway the car would bounce up in the front, rather than absorb the small imperfection in the road surface, then land firmly, then bounce up in the rear on the same imperfection. Just one bounce was not an issue, but hitting a seam in the concrete road surface every 50 to 100 feet or so produced a rocking motion from front to rear to front to rear, until I got off that road. My RS5 just absorbs those irregularities in the road and I never even noticed them before. Later, the B9.5 A5 bounced its way back to the dealer, then my B9 RS5 was smooth over the same stretch of road as I drove home.

Perhaps the rebound is not good in other situations, but it felt like the compression stroke was the culprit in this case.

[Burrcold]

The amount of "bounce" was the same between my B9 and B9.5 RS5 (only really noticed it in Dynamic). I've had an A5 loaner as well and the bounce is not the same as the RS5 bounce. So to answer your question, no that's not the bounce people are talking about. The harshness is what seems to be the difference between the B9 and B9.5.

[JohnEnglish]

Years ago, when I was trying to find a suitable replacement for my Porsche 944, I test drove an Infinity Q35. I drove it across the same road I traveled in my 944 hundreds of times and the 944 never bounced. The Q35 over the same road was like a buckboard and it constantly bounced. I was on a concrete road in good shape. The front suspension would react to the seams in the road surface, then the rear, then the front, then the rear, and so on. So, it was like the front would bob up, then down, then the rear would bob up then down, and it would do this for every seam in the road surace. I did not buy the Q35.

I currently have a 2019 RS5 Sportback with 55K miles and have never experienced that sensation over that same road or others. My wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee also does not bounce on any roads. Today, however, I got a brand new A5 Sportback loaner when I took my RS5 in for service. I returned home over the same stretch of roads and Interstate that I travel all of the time. For the first time ever, I felt extensive bouncing, just like the Q35, and it occurred in all Drive Modes.

I'm wondering if this is what others mean when they describe the RS5 suspension as bouncy, and I'm wondering if this is for all model years or just the facelift years. For those that have the facelift RS5, it is "bouncy", or just harsh, or OK? If it's bouncy, can you describe what you mean?

I also have a 2019 RS5 Sportback with DRC. When I first got it, putting the suspension in Dynamic felt like I was driving over corrugated steel. I put the suspension into Auto and didn't think about. The other day, I decided to put the suspension back into Dynamic and the car felt fine. It was obviously stiffer, but that constant bounciness was gone, or at least my perception of it was. I don't know if I've just gotten used to how the RS5 drives or the suspension settled in over time but driving in Dynamic didn't bother me. I still switch back to Auto as it was a bit harsher than I would like for everyday city driving but otherwise it felt fine.

edit - I just realized that I hadn't used Dynamic mode since I got my new tires. I replaced the original Continentals with Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S about a month ago. I wonder if the new tires have anything do do with it because I have notice that hitting the same bumps with the Michelins is a lot less harsh than with the Continentals.

[Dan99]

I also have a 2019 RS5 Sportback with DRC. When I first got it, putting the suspension in Dynamic felt like I was driving over corrugated steel. I put the suspension into Auto and didn't think about. The other day, I decided to put the suspension back into Dynamic and the car felt fine. It was obviously stiffer, but that constant bounciness was gone, or at least my perception of it was. I don't know if I've just gotten used to how the RS5 drives or the suspension settled in over time but driving in Dynamic didn't bother me. I still switch back to Auto as it was a bit harsher than I would like for everyday city driving but otherwise it felt fine.

edit - I just realized that I hadn't used Dynamic mode since I got my new tires. I replaced the original Continentals with Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S about a month ago. I wonder if the new tires have anything do do with it.

I felt like the oem Continentals were similar to, if not softer than, the PS4S tires in ride quality. Air pressure had a bigger impact for me. When I first got the car I used the dealer's 41/41, but eventually went to 38/32 and the ride was much better.

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[JohnEnglish]

I felt like the oem Continentals were similar to, if not softer than, the PS4S tires in ride quality. Air pressure had a bigger impact for me. When I first got the car I used the dealer's 41/41, but eventually went to 38/32 and the ride was much better.

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I had the Continentals set to 38/32 and have the Michelins set the same way. The Continentals were a bit quieter due to the foam, but the Michelins give me a much smoother ride over the same patches of road.

[wwhan]

My 2019 RS5 with DRC is definitely underdamped, since there are still many oscillations after a large bump. The DRC suspension has lousy transient response. The shocks are meant to dampen the natural oscillation response of the springs & unsprung weight. The unsprung weight of the wheels have a lot of momentum, which needs to be controlled.

Underdamped like this blue line:


Transient response : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_response

Another explanation with RLC circuits: https://www.intmath.com/differential...amping-rlc.php

[Dan99]

My 2019 RS5 with DRC is definitely underdamped, since there are still many oscillations after a large bump. The DRC suspension has lousy transient response. The shocks are meant to dampen the natural oscillation response of the springs & unsprung weight. The unsprung weight of the wheels have a lot of momentum, which needs to be controlled.

Underdamped like this blue line:


Transient response : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_response

Another explanation with RLC circuits: https://www.intmath.com/differential...amping-rlc.php

I can't say that I experience this in my 2019 RS5 SB with DRC. It's harsh on the street in Dynamic, but doesn't bounce like the blue line. It's more like I get a single hard hit, then it's over. It's the hard hit that I don't like. Dynamic is good on the track, but too harsh for the street. Auto and Comfort are better on the street. If you have a SB, do you have the "B" shocks on both front wheels? There is a Tech bulletin on that. Apparently some RS5 SBs came off the assembly line with incorrect front shocks on one or both sides. The correct part number should have a B in it.

More and more I think any harshness with DRC has to do with the interaction between the front and rear. The purpose of DRC, of course, is to control body roll in cornering and braking and it does that well. It is essentially two hydraulically operated diagonal sway bars. So, it firms up the suspension just like physical sway bars do. The down side appears to be when you hit a bump or depression with the front, and how that modifies the firmness in the rear. For example, if you brake hard both front shocks compress and both rear shocks compress as well in an effort to keep the body as level as possible; if you accelerate both rear shocks compress and both front shock also compress for the same reason. In a corner, both outside shocks compress and both inside shocks do essentially the same thing. My impression at this point is - the problem occurs when you hit a bump or depression in the front and how that affects the rear when it hits the same bump. A bump will cause the front to compress then rebound. In response, the rear compresses and rebounds via DRC before it hits that bump, then it hits the same bump and compresses and rebounds on it's own while sending those same forces to the front suspension. At least, that's my guess at this point.

Since I have never experienced bounciness in my RS5 that others have talked about, as OP I was curious to see if the bounciness that I experienced in the loaner B9.5 A5 SB was the same that others have complained about with the RS5. Others have posted that they are not the same. So, I am just inclined to think that the RS5 with DRC provides an interaction between the front and rear that does not work well on all road surfaces, despite its effectiveness in controlling body roll.

Regarding body roll, I have an independent shop I work with that is also an 034 dealer. They have a project B9 S4 with 034 springs and sway bars in the front and rear. Recently they told me my stock RS5 with DRC corners flatter than their project S4. So, I have learned to accept the trade-offs.

[ywang98]

I agree that the DRC does very well on corners with body roll. It's like a super sway bar.

[TJUNER_RS4]

I agree that the DRC does very well on corners with body roll. It's like a super sway bar.

Same experience, on a nice flat road or race track the DRC performance on dynamic mode is asonishing!!!

This and the possibility to ride much more comfortable than standard suspension, was the reason, why a picked up DRC over standard suspension. And I tested both cars properly, with and without DRC and made for me my conclusions.

What I would recommend to everybody with a DRC is, to change out the DRC oil as a maintenance measure, as you change your engine oil. With use the DRC (any suspension oil) gets thinner and picks up impurities (metal particels from the suspension hydraulic, pistons etc.).
In fact, old and dirty suspension oil has the nature to be thicker - compared to new oil - while being cold, to just being a lot thinner, while hot. Consequently with thinner oil your rebound gets faster, because of less dampening.

I've changed my DRC oil out at 37'500 miles (60'000 kilometers) and the car felt, as if I had put in a brand new suspension set. I didn't experimented with thicker oil - as in the suspension area you have a ton of different oils (thicker, thinner etc.) - and put back in the OE one. But I was very surprised how much of a difference it made, altough I new it from my race motorcycles. But didn't expected that much of a difference.

[ywang98]

Same experience, on a nice flat road or race track the DRC performance on dynamic mode is asonishing!!!

This and the possibility to ride much more comfortable than standard suspension, was the reason, why a picked up DRC over standard suspension. And I tested both cars properly, with and without DRC and made for me my conclusions.

What I would recommend to everybody with a DRC is, to change out the DRC oil as a maintenance measure, as you change your engine oil. With use the DRC (any suspension oil) gets thinner and picks up impurities (metal particels from the suspension hydraulic, pistons etc.).
In fact, old and dirty suspension oil has the nature to be thicker - compared to new oil - while being cold, to just being a lot thinner, while hot. Consequently with thinner oil your rebound gets faster, because of less dampening.

I've changed my DRC oil out at 37'500 miles (60'000 kilometers) and the car felt, as if I had put in a brand new suspension set. I didn't experimented with thicker oil - as in the suspension area you have a ton of different oils (thicker, thinner etc.) - and put back in the OE one. But I was very surprised how much of a difference it made, altough I new it from my race motorcycles. But didn't expected that much of a difference.

So you are saying that there are different viscosity DRC oil (oil with magnetic particles for the electronic controlled shocks) available? If so, from Audi or after market?

[dal59]

I spend 99% of the time with DRC in Auto and tranny in Sport and could not be happier. I never use Comfort and only use Dynamic when racing. However, I do not find any mode "bouncy".

[TJUNER_RS4]

So you are saying that there are different viscosity DRC oil (oil with magnetic particles for the electronic controlled shocks) available? If so, from Audi or after market?

If you please read my post, you see, that I put back in OE oil! So, I don't have experience with different oil. As I understand the DRC system from the SSP, it's completely different than magnetic ride and has nothing to do with it.

[djmika]

Man... On we go with this!

The DRC system is not magnetic.

The "B" in the model is fascinating because I do agree that there's a chance that the interaction of the front and rear dampers could have something to do with the issue. Even if it feels like the rear of the car is where the problems lie, the dynamics of the vehicle, weight distribution etc. could theoretically make things more deceiving.

But even more, I think perception is a huge part of this discussion. It was mentioned above that in Dynamic mode, the car feels like you're driving over corrugated metal. That's a very good description and my experience mirrors that. I think that feeling gets misinterpreted as harshness, at least in some cases. But it isn't. It's a damping problem. AND, though the car feels much more livable in Auto mode, the problem is still there. It's just masked better by the requirement of different and less damping overall. The fact that most people who have installed ABT HAS (me included) report minor improvement in ride quality further enforces this point. I'd put money on the ABT HAS being softer through the top portion of the progressive range of travel. Assuming that's true, this improves the OE damper's ability to control the springs through that top range of travel which is where daily driven cars spend most of their time. However, even in auto, no matter what springs you have, I think most of us have felt the suspension become unsettled over larger bumps. Again, a symptom of a damping problem. And I've read where people say that it's the roads or that we're expecting too much from a coil-sprung car. Nonsense. I, like many of you have owned +/-20 cars in my life, 7 of which being Audis. Only one, my C7.5 S6 had air suspension. Frankly, my 2020 GMC Sierra AT4 HD with torsion bars, leaf springs and Fox 2.0 reservoir shocks is more appropriately damped than my RS5.

I also think the Oil discussion is interesting. I've always felt that my car feels better when it's cooler. On very hot days, I notice the deficiency of the suspension more. I've wondered about changing the oil and even did a little research to see if there was possibly an upgraded oil for DRC. I didn't see anything. But even if there isn't an upgrade, I do buy that changing the oil may help. Hell, maybe Audi has improved the oil without saying much of anything. I may call a local dealership and see if I can get someone with some knowledge on the line, though historically that hasn't been easy, at least in the Bay Area.

There is some urgency for me here. I have ordered Bilstein EVO T1 for my car. I did this because I'm basically waiving the white flag with the factory suspension but really, I have to cross my fingers and hope I like it. Ultimately, I don't think the OE suspension very good overall. However, I do agree with others who've point out that the car corners extremely flat, especially in Dynamic mode which tells me DRC itself, works. This quality alone though, is far overshadowed by poor damping, IMO.

And to the OP's point, the damping problems with the RS5 are different than those of "lesser" vehicles like the A5. The A5 has more suspension travel and softer springs that require less damping. They're tuned for comfort. Whether you agree with how it's tuned is subjective. People who buy an A5 probably don't care, have the same requirements or even the presence to be able to discern. But if you buy an RS5, you're almost certainly expecting excellence, as you should. And while we RS5 owners' ire toward DRC seems to vary, I don't think anyone here claims the suspension to be "excellent."

One more interesting point... I saw that 034 finally seems to have designed a spring set specifically for DRC cars. This is an interesting development. I consider them to be a preeminent tuner for our vehicles. They're clearly aware of the issue and must have been working on this for a while. I'd think people would have jumped on this but the post from 034 introducing them hasn't gotten a single response yet. Granted, they seem to be saying that they're only for coupes for now. I may call and check in with them as well, especially since they're in my back yard.

[ywang98]

I am not saying that the DRC is a magnetic ride. The damping characteristics (auto, dynamic, etc.) is controlled by the wires that go into the front shocks. As far as I know, the oil has magnetic or some kind of ferrous particles that changes alignment from the control signals going into the shocks, thus creating different damping characteristics. This was how it was on my S4 (2018), and I think it's the same in the RS5.

The DRC is a cross-linked oil line system from shock to shock, and has pressure reservoirs at the rear bumper area covered by the rear bumper cover. This acts like a super sway bar.

I could be wrong. That was why I asked about the special oil, because regular hydraulic oil does not have that material that can be controlled by the shocks signals.

[Dan99]

I am not saying that the DRC is a magnetic ride. The damping characteristics (auto, dynamic, etc.) is controlled by the wires that go into the front shocks. As far as I know, the oil has magnetic or some kind of ferrous particles that changes alignment from the control signals going into the shocks, thus creating different damping characteristics. This was how it was on my S4 (2018), and I think it's the same in the RS5.

The DRC is a cross-linked oil line system from shock to shock, and has pressure reservoirs at the rear bumper area covered by the rear bumper cover. This acts like a super sway bar.

I could be wrong. That was why I asked about the special oil, because regular hydraulic oil does not have that material that can be controlled by the shocks signals.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...38340-9999.pdf

See page 23. DRC is a mechanical system. The wires send control signals to the shocks to change the internal valves. You can't get DRC on an S4, and they are not the same either in purpose or in implementation.

[ywang98]

Thank you for the pdf.

I am not saying the S4 has DRC. What I only said is the shocks having control signal for both cars. The S4 has ride control/shocks for firmness of the shocks. So, it is valving change. I wonder where I read the hydraulic fluid being magnetically controllable.

[Dan99]

Thank you for the pdf.

I am not saying the S4 has DCR. What I only said is the shocks having control signal for both cars. The S4 has ride control/shocks for firmness of the shocks. So, it is valving change. I wonder where I read the hydraulic fluid being magnetically controllable.

I think S4 is magnetic.

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[JohnEnglish]

Only the TT and R8 license GM’s / Delphi’s Magna-Ride suspension tech. Other Audis (like the S4 and S5) use dampeners with adjustable valving for their adaptive suspension.

[TJUNER_RS4]

Don't get me wrong guys, but I think that the discussion is going in the wrong direction with S5, magnetic whatever.....and problem won't be solved or identified

"DJMIKA" mad a very good statement and I think this is the direction. As revalving the dampers (especially rebound) isn't an option, at least I don't have the sources to buy another DRC shock kit and bring it to my motorcycle suspension tech, I would first go the route with the oil. Especially as it is with DRC, in comparision to everything else on the market, a very easy thing to soak the oil out and refill the system.
If somebody would know a tech, which could determine if the DRC oil is just a simple suspensiom oil, that would open a playground with different viscosity oils (from 0W to 30W).

I know it's not a car, but for example the Yamaha MT-7 motorcycle coming stock with a completely out of rang rebound in the forks. Changing the oil to 20W sets the rebound, where it has to be and you get a different vehicle to drive. The drivers usually think that the whole fork has been redone, but it's just a thinny, cheap mod.

[2019RS5Sportbak]

Second that ass-off the seat bounce in Dynamic… undriveable on the highways at high speed because the chance of hitting a bump, especially on a curve - that’s happened to me and it’s just outright scary.

[VVG]

All adjustable suspensions have some modes that work better than others. Even in my previous Porsche Macan, the middle "Sport" mode was much better than "Comfort" or "Sport Plus". That vehicle had air suspension, however, which I feel is just superior to spring/shock set-ups for street use. Dynamic mode on the RS5 DRC system is simply made for the track. Alternate between Comfort and Auto on the street and the damping characteristics are really fine.