B9 SQ5 Rocker Arm Failure issue

[raudiace4]

Hello, has anyone here had experience with Rocker arm failure on their B9 SQ? How was it resolved? Did Audi cover it? 3rd party warranty? Seems like it was yet another known failure point on early EA839 engines as the rocker part was revised in 2019.

Very annoyed. 2018 SQ5, 73k miles, meticulously maintained, just started exhibiting the rocker arm noise today. Officially going to be diagnosed later this week.

[fusion3214]

oddly enough im in the middle of servicing mine right now. the shop i brought it to "didnt have the timing tool" and the dealer never replied to my service request after the initial call. IIRC the dealer will replace the top half of the engine rather than fixing the rockers but i don't have data to back this up. ive been changing my oil every 5k with 0w20 but have been made aware that 5w40 is the way to go. let me know if you want a parts list with all the parts and ill send it your way.

[raudiace4]

oddly enough im in the middle of servicing mine right now. the shop i brought it to "didnt have the timing tool" and the dealer never replied to my service request after the initial call. IIRC the dealer will replace the top half of the engine rather than fixing the rockers but i don't have data to back this up. ive been changing my oil every 5k with 0w20 but have been made aware that 5w40 is the way to go. let me know if you want a parts list with all the parts and ill send it your way.

Thank you for the reply, yes please send me the parts list! I love the B9 SQ and don’t want to get rid of it.

I’ve also done oil changes every 5k miles on this since we have owned it with 5W40.

[JonnyBravo!]

I've been keeping a close ear to see if I notice the dreaded rocker arm noise. Currently at 90k miles and it still runs like a champ - knock on wood.

I've been using OEM 0W-20 oil every 5k miles, but I have read about switching over to 5W-40. What do you guys use?

[fusion3214]

I've been keeping a close ear to see if I notice the dreaded rocker arm noise. Currently at 90k miles and it still runs like a champ - knock on wood.

I've been using OEM 0W-20 oil every 5k miles, but I have read about switching over to 5W-40. What do you guys use?

i ordered one of these and then 3 of the smaller 1L bottles totaling 8L. i believe the engine takes 7.7? have to check need4built's thread with all the fluid specs
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/5w-...ro-moly-lm3864

[fusion3214]

Thank you for the reply, yes please send me the parts list! I love the B9 SQ and don’t want to get rid of it.

I’ve also done oil changes every 5k miles on this since we have owned it with 5W40.

theres a LOOOOOT of parts as everything is 1 time use and you gotta remove a ton of gaskets and pipes to get to the damn rockers. i'll get the receipts together after work and post the part numbers here. there were some pretty deep scratches on the camshaft and all of the rockers on the passenger side.

70890379357__423F1A7E-4536-4CDA-B2E1-97CE2EF756FA.jpg
70890405060__85D78A90-8C64-477B-933C-5C842AB20A42.jpg

[quantas]

@raudiace4 what is your build date on the door sticker?

[fusion3214]

Thank you for the reply, yes please send me the parts list! I love the B9 SQ and don’t want to get rid of it.

I’ve also done oil changes every 5k miles on this since we have owned it with 5W40.

Here's the first half of the parts list. I believe this had most of the tools + parts that I had to order to get the camshafts locked + off. Keep in mind that a lot of the bolts + o rings are 1 time use and will need to be replaced when re-installing if you want to "do it professionally". I'm sure most don't replace them and tbh I would've probably done the same if I was fixing the car to trade in and get a new(er) one. Once I sort out the 2nd part of this list which contain the bolts, gaskets, tube gaskets, water pump, PCV, etc, I'll post it here. Decided on servicing everything that I could while the engine was out since I plan to keep the car until I can get an SQ8.

Notes:
Some of the bolts to remove the driver side cams are under the PCV so that will need to be removed. My car was a 06/18 build date so it had the very early revision of the PCV which failed (go figure).

Fuel injector puller will be needed. Any one off of amazon will work.

Various picks, pry bars and screwdrivers will probably help.

A torque wrench (or wrenches) that can do angle are super helpful, but not needed. I had a snap on techangle (ATECH2F125) from an old project which I'm sure will pay for itself with this job. I think the smallest torque setting was 2nm in which I bought a beam torque wrench from autozone (0-80 inch pounds) and then back with the snap on for angle.

Subframe bolts may need to be replaced if you decide to pull the engine out the front or drop it out the bottom.

Ensure your cam locking kit has 4 “T40331/2” bits if you plan to do both sides at the same time. The kit I ordered had 6 total but only 2 "T40331/2"'s with the rest being "T40331/3". No big deal if it only has two, but you'll only be able to pull off one side at a time. Remember to lock the crank once lining up the hole and line for "TDC". VAG technic's rocker service videos have a good example of this along with checking the timing sprockets for TDC before taking them out.

name | link | part number | price | quantity
engine camshaft (intake) cyl 1-3 https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...M109003CN.html 06M109003CN 821.67 1
engine camshaft (exhaust) cyl 1-3 https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...M109102EP.html 06M109102EP 665 1
engine camshaft (intake) cyl 4-6 https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...M109003CP.html 06M109003CP 555 1
engine camshaft (exhaust) cyl 4-6 https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...M109102EH.html 06M109102EH 555 1
spark plug tube seal cyl 1-3 (gasket) https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...6M103650D.html 06M103650D 28 1
spark plug tube seal cyl 4-6 (gasket) https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...6M103649D.html 06M103649D 28 1
rocker arm https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...0P2109417.html 0P2109417 19.59 24
timing chain tensioner https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...6M109218F.html 06M109218F 156.67 1
timing chain tensioner https://www.audiusaparts.com/oem-par...Y2LWdhcw%3D%3D 06M-109-217-L 118.09 1
camshaft control valve https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...6M109257T.html 06M109257T 106.67 4
sealant https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...D176501A1.html D176501A1 28 1
timing tensioner locking pin https://www.tillmantools.com/SES-T03...6.htm?CartID=1 T03006 46 1
bolt N91127602 60? (will update when completed)

[TheContrarian]

@raudiace4 what is your build date on the door sticker?

The key is the engine build date, which is on a sticker at the front of the engine bay. I believe it is on a metal AC pipe.

[rcprato]

What is the up to build date when this is a concern?

[JonnyBravo!]

Just for future reference, here are two videos comparing good and bad rocker arms. The HPFP in these cars is quite loud, so it's important not to confuse the two.

Good:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/C_uvjpjFTF4

Bad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70gmRruhh5I

[quantas]

Just for future reference, here are two videos comparing good and bad rocker arms. The HPFP in these cars is quite loud, so it's important not to confuse the two.

Good:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/C_uvjpjFTF4

Bad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70gmRruhh5I

That first video is mine :) I’ve listened to both these videos over and over, I don’t know much about engines, but I struggle to hear the difference :\

[muffinman92]

The key is the engine build date, which is on a sticker at the front of the engine bay. I believe it is on a metal AC pipe.

Which engine build dates should be in the clear

[fusion3214]

That first video is mine :) I’ve listened to both these videos over and over, I don’t know much about engines, but I struggle to hear the difference :\

The 2nd video has a metallic click that has a different tone compared to the HPFP. heres the video i posted in a previous thread with the same noise. engine build date on the front coolant pipe is 05/08/18, sticker on the body says 06/18.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YIfYRlpDnJg

[TheContrarian]

Which engine build dates should be in the clear

Nobody really knows for sure, some say after June 2018. There are a few videos on youtube of people checking theirs with a camera which are late 2018 and early 2019 builds and they had updated rockers.

I bought an inspection camera and looked inside to verify I had the newer rocker arm design before I bought my used 2019. Engine build Jan 2019, vehicle build June 2019 had the updates.

[quantas]

My AC sticker says 04/18 and door sticker says 06/18, my car has 93k miles and you can hear it in that video posted above. Runs great and I love it :) We know that even if we have the older rockers that they aren’t guaranteed to fail. The failure rate is still very low considering all the vehicles the EA839 is in. :) I also have 33 months left on a 36 month/36k mile warranty so there’s that.

[muffinman92]

I guess the real question is, has anyone with the new rocker arms had issues?

[fusion3214]

I guess the real question is, has anyone with the new rocker arms had issues?

id like to know this as well LOL. im gonna *assume* that they are fine because aren't these the rockers that were used for every engine 2019 onwards up to the 4.0TT v8?

[raudiace4]

The SQ goes in for diagnosis sat morning. Those of us who have been around late model German DI engines know from the unique sound of this issue isn’t normal. Its loud at idle, gets louder with more throttle.

Hopefully it gets fixed soon.

[raudiace4]

Here's the first half of the parts list. I believe this had most of the tools + parts that I had to order to get the camshafts locked + off. Keep in mind that a lot of the bolts + o rings are 1 time use and will need to be replaced when re-installing if you want to "do it professionally". I'm sure most don't replace them and tbh I would've probably done the same if I was fixing the car to trade in and get a new(er) one. Once I sort out the 2nd part of this list which contain the bolts, gaskets, tube gaskets, water pump, PCV, etc, I'll post it here. Decided on servicing everything that I could while the engine was out since I plan to keep the car until I can get an SQ8.

Notes:
Some of the bolts to remove the driver side cams are under the PCV so that will need to be removed. My car was a 06/18 build date so it had the very early revision of the PCV which failed (go figure).

Fuel injector puller will be needed. Any one off of amazon will work.

Various picks, pry bars and screwdrivers will probably help.

A torque wrench (or wrenches) that can do angle are super helpful, but not needed. I had a snap on techangle (ATECH2F125) from an old project which I'm sure will pay for itself with this job. I think the smallest torque setting was 2nm in which I bought a beam torque wrench from autozone (0-80 inch pounds) and then back with the snap on for angle.

Subframe bolts may need to be replaced if you decide to pull the engine out the front or drop it out the bottom.

Ensure your cam locking kit has 4 “T40331/2” bits if you plan to do both sides at the same time. The kit I ordered had 6 total but only 2 "T40331/2"'s with the rest being "T40331/3". No big deal if it only has two, but you'll only be able to pull off one side at a time. Remember to lock the crank once lining up the hole and line for "TDC". VAG technic's rocker service videos have a good example of this along with checking the timing sprockets for TDC before taking them out.

name |link |part number |price |quantity
engine camshaft (intake) cyl 1-3https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...M109003CN.html06M109003CN821.671
engine camshaft (exhaust) cyl 1-3https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...M109102EP.html06M109102EP6651
engine camshaft (intake) cyl 4-6https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...M109003CP.html06M109003CP5551
engine camshaft (exhaust) cyl 4-6https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...M109102EH.html06M109102EH5551
spark plug tube seal cyl 1-3 (gasket)https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...6M103650D.html06M103650D281
spark plug tube seal cyl 4-6 (gasket)https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...6M103649D.html 06M103649D281
rocker armhttps://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...0P2109417.html0P210941719.5924
timing chain tensionerhttps://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...6M109218F.html06M109218F156.671
timing chain tensionerhttps://www.audiusaparts.com/oem-par...Y2LWdhcw%3D%3D06M-109-217-L118.091
camshaft control valvehttps://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...6M109257T.html06M109257T106.674
sealanthttps://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_201...D176501A1.htmlD176501A1281
timing tensioner locking pinhttps://www.tillmantools.com/SES-T03...6.htm?CartID=1T03006461
boltN9112760260? (will update when completed)

Thank you!

[raudiace4]

The key is the engine build date, which is on a sticker at the front of the engine bay. I believe it is on a metal AC pipe.

6/18.

Indy shop confirmed rocker arm issue. More to come later. I do have 3rd party fidelity warranty as well. We shall see.

[quantas]

That doesn’t make me feel better, I am at 93k miles and no issue yet. My engine date is before yours by a few months. I really wish we knew more. I hope your warranty covers it and Audi is made aware of more failures.

[fusion3214]

6/18.

Indy shop confirmed rocker arm issue. More to come later. I do have 3rd party fidelity warranty as well. We shall see.

let me know if you end up paying anything. quite curious to see what the pricing difference is between the rest of the US and hawaii.

[Mkebrewerfan]

Any update if anything was covered? I just started getting the increased rocker noise in my SQ...

[Mkebrewerfan]

Audi dealership just confirmed rocker failure. Audi of America not will to cover anything. What frigging joke. Dealership is saying $6600 for repairs and they couldn't even confirm if that was for both banks of the motor. Not super happy.

[asrautox]

IMO, take it to an independent or trade it.


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[fusion3214]

+1 for trading it. unless you've got about a weeks worth of time on your hand to pull the motor out and replace the rockers. parts, bolts and gaskets should run no more than 1500-2000.

[raudiace4]

Id recommend getting rid of the car/trade in.

Our SQ5 was confirmed rocker arm failure and required new motor. $31k total for new motor and labor.

Covered under warranty 3rd party. Good luck to anyone who doesn’t have warranty on these.


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[sxgt]

Serious question:

Would oil analysis help understand if this issue is happening? If so, what would show up on the analysis? If not, is there any preventative diagnosis/inspection that can be done?

[raudiace4]

Serious question:

Would oil analysis help understand if this issue is happening? If so, what would show up on the analysis? If not, is there any preventative diagnosis/inspection that can be done?

Yep. Metal particulate in oil is a pretty good indication from wear on the camshaft due to failing rockers.
If you catch this early enough you can avoid needing a new motor. Replace all the rockers, check camshaft and oil analysis.


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[pnewton]

Id recommend getting rid of the car/trade in.

Our SQ5 was confirmed rocker arm failure and required new motor. $31k total for new motor and labor.

Covered under warranty 3rd party. Good luck to anyone who doesn’t have warranty on these.


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Which 3rd party warranty company? They likely won't quote on any more SQ5s after paying out on yours, but it's worth a try. Our 2018 SQ5 (August 2017 build date) has 74K miles now, and I just became aware of this issue today after a friend told me about the forum discussion. Ours seems totally fine, but I am trying to hedge my bets.

I don't want to get rid of the vehicle if we can avoid it, my wife loves it and ours is such a unique build (Azores Green Prestige + S Sport + diamond pattern leather + cold weather package) that I would have a hell of a time finding another one.

[Gunnarrrrr]

Which 3rd party warranty company? They likely won't quote on any more SQ5s after paying out on yours, but it's worth a try. Our 2018 SQ5 (August 2017 build date) has 74K miles now, and I just became aware of this issue today after a friend told me about the forum discussion. Ours seems totally fine, but I am trying to hedge my bets.

I don't want to get rid of the vehicle if we can avoid it, my wife loves it and ours is such a unique build (Azores Green Prestige + S Sport + diamond pattern leather + cold weather package) that I would have a hell of a time finding another one.

You consider doing rocker arms yourself as preventative maintenance? I'm debating on either trading this car in for a b9.5 in a year or just biting the bullet on $500 in parts and spending a weekend in my garage doing the update, and driving the car hopefully beyond 200k miles.

[njspeedfreak]

Is you engine making a loud metallic ticking noise at idle - if not, then it's not something you need to worry about right now. I had a 2018 S5 that lost it's engine due to bad rocker arms, but the problem doesn't go from zero to catastrophe overnight. At first you will hear a slight ticking noise that is different and distinct from the injector noises. Over time it will grow louder as the rocker arm and camshaft start to wear against each other. But it takes time for that to happen, so this is probably something you can wait for the first symptoms to show up before having to take any expensive measures to address.

Hard to say what the failure rate on these engines is, but I think one issue that current owners need to consider is the potential hit on the resale value down the road, even if you are lucky enough not to have any defective bearings in your engine. The 2018 is going to start to get a "reputation" as a model year to avoid.

[fusion3214]

You consider doing rocker arms yourself as preventative maintenance? I'm debating on either trading this car in for a b9.5 in a year or just biting the bullet on $500 in parts and spending a weekend in my garage doing the update, and driving the car hopefully beyond 200k miles.

if money and lack of stage 2 TCU on MY22-24's isnt an issue, +1 for trade. if i recall there were some steep discounts for the 2023 b9.5 SQ5's since the 24's are out. only thing you wont have is the remote start which is tied behind audi connect so you'll have to pay after 6 months.

[Gunnarrrrr]

I’d be moving over all my parts immediately and voiding the warranty right off the lot so i’ll probably just find the most clapped out 2021 to save some money. I just need to get over the lack of ABT body kit :(


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[raudiace4]

Which 3rd party warranty company? They likely won't quote on any more SQ5s after paying out on yours, but it's worth a try. Our 2018 SQ5 (August 2017 build date) has 74K miles now, and I just became aware of this issue today after a friend told me about the forum discussion. Ours seems totally fine, but I am trying to hedge my bets.

I don't want to get rid of the vehicle if we can avoid it, my wife loves it and ours is such a unique build (Azores Green Prestige + S Sport + diamond pattern leather + cold weather package) that I would have a hell of a time finding another one.

Fidelity. And your assumptions are probably correct. We bought that warranty with the purchase of the vehicle when it was already CPO. I had a bad feeling about early EA839s in typical Audi fashion there was an issue.

We got a MY 2023 build EA839 motor with all new supporting hardware, so essentially this is 2018 SQ5 with 2023 engine+supporting components.


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[raudiace4]

Is you engine making a loud metallic ticking noise at idle - if not, then it's not something you need to worry about right now. I had a 2018 S5 that lost it's engine due to bad rocker arms, but the problem doesn't go from zero to catastrophe overnight. At first you will hear a slight ticking noise that is different and distinct from the injector noises. Over time it will grow louder as the rocker arm and camshaft start to wear against each other. But it takes time for that to happen, so this is probably something you can wait for the first symptoms to show up before having to take any expensive measures to address.

Hard to say what the failure rate on these engines is, but I think one issue that current owners need to consider is the potential hit on the resale value down the road, even if you are lucky enough not to have any defective bearings in your engine. The 2018 is going to start to get a "reputation" as a model year to avoid.

100%


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[1RAudiSQ5]

Is this where you find the build date? It’s right behind the fans in the front.

IMG_5595.jpg


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[fusion3214]

Is this where you find the build date? It’s right behind the fans in the front.

IMG_5595.jpg


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correct

revised rockers with PN 0P2109417 were used in engines built after june of 2018 so yours should be fine. if you want to verify you can stick a snake scope or whatever theyre called down the oil fill area and look at the thickness of the pins within the roller.

[kwik_shift]

Subscribed. I know it was mentioned at the beginning but are most B9 SQ5/S4 owners using 5W40?