Potential Ohlins Based Suspension Option for B9 RS5 (+A4/5 and S4/5)

[djmika]

I'm posting this thread to gauge interest in a potential bespoke Ohlins based coilover that's set up on and for our cars here in the US. The goal would be to provide a solution that excels at daily drivability and handling with the occasional potential weekend track day. If this interests you, please read on.

I've kind of set out on a mission to find a reasonable, suitable aftermarket solution. To date, the one main option from a manufacturer standpoint is KW and somewhat by proxy, ABT. I currently have ABT HAS on my 2019 RS5 and I've owned KW v3 on a B8.5 S4. They were, in my opinion, good but not great. There is also a v4 kit and I believe it's common knowledge that it comes on 2023 RS5 with the Competition Package. The glaring issue here is cost which comes in around $7000.

Another option is Ohlins. Virtually everyone I talk to speaks positively about the brand and many in the know seem to prefer them to KW. There are certainly some interesting attributes. However, I've yet to find a single person who's put the kit on a B9 RS5. Maybe there are folks with other B9 cars that can comment.

Through my research I came across a local shop called FPSpec who does a lot of work with Ohlins DFV tech including custom fully bespoke tuning of valving and spring rates. Heath, who I spent over an hour on the phone with today is by far the most open and knowledgeable person I've spoken with in terms of suspension and driving dynamics. FPSpec and their associated group of shops already have kits for several other cars. I told Heath about the issues with DRC. He suggested that we could start with the Ohlins kit and find out how well it works. He then mentioned that if there was enough interest, we could potentially optimize the kit in various ways potentially arriving at something completely bespoke. There's also a chance that it there's enough interest, they approach aftermarket shop(s) with the product.

So, if a Ohlins DFV based aluminum body coilover system that's optimized to be docile enough for daily drivers and responsive/sporty in a manner befitting of the RS5 (and other B9 cars), interests you, please respond to this thread. The Ohlins kit starts around $3000, and Heath thought the price for something like this would end up between $3800 and $4200. Not cheap, but still around half the price of the KW v4.

If there are questions, Heath has said he'd create and account and jump in on the conversation.

Thanks in advance and apologies. I tried to do a pole here and have no idea what I'm doing,

[initiala4]

I have it on my B9 RS4.

[djmika]

Initiala4 -

Good to hear from you and great looking setup! The RS4 is sharp. Hope it becomes an option here in the states.

Where are you located?

Also, did your car start life with DRC? If so, did you go with the Ohlins because, like many US based RS5 owners, you didn't like the DRC?

Can you provide any feedback for the Ohlins kit? Where have you set the dampers? How does it feel on the road? Track? Why Ohlins vs. KW or other?

Love that the first response to this is international!

MB

[initiala4]

Initiala4 -

Good to hear from you and great looking setup! The RS4 is sharp. Hope it becomes an option here in the states.

Where are you located?

Also, did your car start life with DRC? If so, did you go with the Ohlins because, like many US based RS5 owners, you didn't like the DRC?

Can you provide any feedback for the Ohlins kit? Where have you set the dampers? How does it feel on the road? Track? Why Ohlins vs. KW or other?

Love that the first response to this is international!

MB

Hallo!

I am located @ Thailand.

The car did not come with DRC.

The OEM suspension is quite bouncy in comparison to the Ohlins. In the highway the car will jiggly up, and down as if the car feels like it had lowered springs setup. With DFV, it is much much better. Keep in mind the roads here arent that smooth, but not as bad as some parts of the US like NJ or NYC. In terms of stability, it is much better than OEM.

I installed the dampers at an Ohlins Authorized dealer that specializes race cars. The car have been cornered weight all around. I did have the option of changing the spring rates, but the one came with the kit works well for me.

Why Ohlins? I tried Ohlins on my friends 991.2, and it really felt solid. For some reason when I think of Ohlins, i usually think they are super stiff like Volvo 850R days. Anyways this didnt felt like that. The DFV concept seemed like interesting.

[wwhan]

Interesting, Ohlins model AUS MU00 has seperate height and spring preload adjustment. It does indicate the lowering range, but does not indicate, if one can maintain the stock ride height.

It seems the spring rate is more track oriented: https://norwestsuspension.com/convert-spring-rates

Product overview: https://world.ohlins.com/app/uploads...5_AUS-MU00.pdf

Ohlins webpage: https://www.ohlins.com/product/road-track/audi-rs5-b9/

Owners manual: https://world.ohlins.com/app/uploads...51-01_6_RT.pdf

Mounting Instructions: https://world.ohlins.com/app/uploads...I_AUS-MU00.pdf

[djmika]

wwhan,

Thanks for the contribution. This is great stuff! I'd found most of the documents you sent but critically, not the Product Overview that publishes the spring rates.

The conversion tool was obviously also helpful. I was surprised to see how high the rates seem to look. I believe that the front rate translates to 685 PSI. And even more surprising to me was that the rear rates are higher than the front at 799 PSI. Admittedly, I'm not an expert on the subject matter but these seem very high for street use and probably much higher than OE. Maybe the rear being stiffer than the front helps with understeer on a nose-heavy AWD vehicle? Someone with more knowledge or experience may be able to comment. But if that's true, my instincts tell me that for what most B9 owners are looking for, we'd want to go lower and combine this with larger sway bars to help with the understeer.

This is exactly the conversation that needs to happen in order for Heath to potentially help create a setup (or setups) optimized for our cars. One(s) that he could potentially go to market with. And to directly address your point on whether one could achieve stock ride height, FPSpec can use the Ohlins DFV at the heart of this setup and build something completely bespoke if the demand is there. So, I would imagine the answer would ultimately be yes.

As I mentioned, Heath has a ton of knowledge on the subject matter. Their facility is located around the corner from the Tesla factory in Fremont, CA. Tesla approached him with a pre-production Model 3 and since, one of his companies, Redwood Garage focuses on Tesla which there is a huge market for here in the Bay Area. Heath mentioned to me that the Model Y has some inherent flaws in suspension dynamics that they set out to address. In doing so, he figured out that they needed to create a new cartridge that's a different length than the off-the-shelf Ohlins part. He said that depending on how much engineering and actual testing went into the Audi setup, the same may be necessary and that the only way to know is to put the kit on a car and run it through testing. This process may be prohibitively expensive for just one car which is why I'm trying to create some interest here. If we get 20-25 people interested, it could make sense to proceed with the research.

Additionally, Heath is also geographically very close to 034. I can't help but notice that 034 is extremely through and meticulous when it comes to everything they offer. The one seemingly glaring exception being a performance-oriented coilover solution. All they have are fixed height progressive lowering springs which may work okay for some but don't seem to really address a true performance upgrade and probably shouldn't be used with flawed DRC dampers. Maybe there's some potential here.

[Esmin23]

I have a '19 S4 and recently purchased the Ohlins Kit. I'm hoping to get it installed in the next month or so, due to traveling. I was told that the rates of the springs works with the DFV dampers. So they would seem far off than spring rates with stock dampening. Also, you can purchase Swift springs separately with softer rates, if you feel they're too stiff. I purchased the Swift thrust sheets to replace some of the plastic spacers with self lubricating spacers. Helps with binding.

3DM Suspensions also fine tunes the dampening to your liking.

[initiala4]

Interesting, Ohlins model AUS MU00 has seperate height and spring preload adjustment. It does indicate the lowering range, but does not indicate, if one can maintain the stock ride height.

It seems the spring rate is more track oriented: https://norwestsuspension.com/convert-spring-rates

Product overview: https://world.ohlins.com/app/uploads...5_AUS-MU00.pdf

Ohlins webpage: https://www.ohlins.com/product/road-track/audi-rs5-b9/

Owners manual: https://world.ohlins.com/app/uploads...51-01_6_RT.pdf

Mounting Instructions: https://world.ohlins.com/app/uploads...I_AUS-MU00.pdf

FYI, I maintained my stock height.

[djmika]

I had to search long and hard to find what I have so far, but the Ohlins spring rates are eye-opening.


Ohlins Package: 685 lb./in. front and 800 lb./in. rear


The only other published Audi rates I've found so far are from EMD and they're for a B9 S5:


Stock Front: 250 lb./in.

EMD Auto Front: 300 lb./in.

Stock Rear: 260 lb./in.

EMD Auto Rear: 340 lb./in.


Granted, this is an S5 rate and it's very possible the RS is stiffer, though one would have to guess fairly moderately so.


I've reached out to 3DM since they seem to have experience on the matter. I'll be interested in what they have to say. I know that there is more to ride quality than just spring rates, but these differences are so stark that I have to imagine there being a real impact on comfort.


Another interesting thing I saw on the EMD site is that they make springs for the F80 and F82 (M3 and M4) and those rates are very telling as well. In those cars the front rate is far, far lower than the rear.

Stock Front Rate: 186 lb./in.

EMD Auto Front Rate: 194 lb./in.

Stock Rear Rate: 608 lb./in.

EMD Auto Rear Rate: 645 lb./in.


This adds to my (admittedly uneducated) theory that going stiffer in the rear helps balance out understeer. In the case of the BMW, this explains why, in my experience, that gen M car felt stiff and unforgiving. This also enforces my theory that 800 lb./in. is probably way stiffer than I'm going to like in the B9.


Last bit of perspective from the EMD site is from the current RS3:

Stock Spring Rate: 260 lb/in (Front) / 270 lb/in (Rear)

EMD Auto Spring Rate: 275 lb/in (Front) / 300 lb/in (Rear)

[Mortys66]

I have the B9 '19 RS5 Sportback and I am looking at the Ohlins setup for my car. I know that it is going to be needed as my mileage is at 89k so I have been researching my options. I thought it would be only a matter of time until a reputable company will get going on a setup for our cars, but I have seen very little movement towards the product that most people are happy with for the RS5.

[djmika]

Mortys66 - I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. Are you basically saying that you're hoping for a tuner and manufacturer to put what we're talking about here together? And if we find something, would you be interested in something more personalized as opposed to just hoping the off-the-shelf Ohlins kit will work for you?

To try to be abundantly clear, my concern with all of the kits available for the RS5 and the catalyst for the research that led to this thread is that there's no way to know whether I'll like anything I buy until I install them. Then, if I don't like how the car feels, I end up stuck with an expensive kit that makes an expensive car less ideal for me. This is not something I think consumers should have to settle for and it shocks (pun intended ) me that that's just how this goes.

First, there are limited options available. I think Ohlins, KW, H&R and Bilstein are the ones I really seem to see. So, they're the ones I've researched. Here's where I've landed so far.

H&R gets little to no love, at least in terms of coilovers on RS. They seem to be a more budget-oriented solution and maybe people with RS cars just aren't that type of clientele. I'm definitely not searching with cost as my #1 criteria. Still, they do have a kit that's seems slanted toward comfort and daily drivability.

Bilstein seems to not be fully engaged, at least in terms of this platform. B16 may be a bit long in the tooth but that's what's being recommended to me by a few shops. EVO looks interesting, and I hear they may do an EVO T kit. (What about S?) But if you call Bilstein (which I did) and ask, they'll tell you they don't have a single product that fits B9 RS5 Sportback and seemingly no plans to make one. Strange, yet somehow typical.

Then there is KW who has a handful of options that fit the platform but only specifies v3 and v4 for the RS. I owned v3 on my B8.5 and for my taste, it was good, not great. v4 is double the price of anything else... at least. That's a big leap of faith. I called KW here in the US and asked them about street comfort springs with v3 or v4 dampers which seems something like what we're working toward here with Ohlins. I got the proverbial blank stare right through the phone.

ABT is just rebranded KW and no one seems to be willing or able to really say if and what the differences are between their kit and KW v3.

None of the above seem to publish spring rates to at least establish a baseline for how the car may feel. All have given me the shortest answers they can muster up and none seem to really care all that much.

Conversely, the people at Ohlins US facility were the best I've spoken with. And I see more promise with a few of the shops that specialize in Ohlins. These are some really knowledgeable people. I feel like two options would cover the vast majority of people looking for a solution for our cars. And from what I'm seeing, the off-the-shelf Ohlins kit may already be just fine for people who want more aggressively tuned suspension and who may occasionally track the car. What remains is something that's more docile and comfort oriented but that can handle well over variety of street driving scenarios. A GT tuned suspension system. I think this will end up being something with softer rates than the kit starts with and possibly re-valved accordingly as well.

So again, what I'm hoping is that people may chime in here showing similar interest. I'm glad to see feedback from those who have already installed the standard kit as well. That's helpful too.

[wwhan]

I think for softer ride on the street, one may wish to have progressive rate springs, which would have a more complex specification.

You can get the stock RS5 DRC springs tested on a Coil Spring Tester, as a starting point. Here are a bunch of interesting links on springs.

TF-Works can dyno test your OEM, aftermarket shock, and coilovers: https://www.tf-works.com/shock-dyno-spring-rate/

"Shock Dyno can measure the performance of your shocks by measuring the damping force vs shaft velocity. By having this info, you can take the guess work out of vehicle setup. We can also test your shocks to make sure they are matched within specs from the manufacturer.

We can also test your springs to determine the actual rate. We can test upto 20' springs."

Test Your Own Spring Rates: https://nasaspeed.news/toolshed-engi...-spring-rates/

Intercomp Digital Coil Spring Tester: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...asp?RecID=1215

How To Calculate Spring Rates: https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/how-...-spring-rates/

Sprinp rate calculator: http://www.racingsuspensionproducts....ing%20rate.htm

Suspension Spring Rate & Wheel Rate Calculator: https://www.hypercoils.com/spring-rate-calculator/

What is Spring Rate: https://performancetrends.com/Defini...pring-Rate.htm

Moog Coil Springs by Size: https://www.moog-suspension-parts.co...il_springs.asp

How To Measure For Custom Coil-Overs: https://www.qa1.net/tech-center/tech...il-over-shocks

[djmika]

wwhan,

I've thought about trying to get my OE springs to a shop and have them tested. And I still may. But because DRC is such an oddball system, I'm not sure I need to know much more than what I already do by having the rates for the S5.

And in terms of progressive vs. linear, I hear your point. However, I don't know if it'll be necessary. I think that if I get the rate right and then damp it correctly, I'll be happy with linear. The OE springs are linear, and the spring rates felt fine. if they were damped correctly, we wouldn't be having this conversation! In fact, I've had mixed experiences with progressive springs and how well dampers handle them. This came up with Heath who suggested that it's harder to design a damper that will appropriately handle a progressive spring rate. This makes sense to me. I suppose it's another thing in the case of KW v3 and v4 which I believe have progressive rear springs and, theoretically, the damper is valved for the spring. Theoretically... As I may have mentioned, I didn't love the v3 on my B8.5 and that factors into my decision here.

To be fair to progressive rate springs, I think they can help. I think it's critical for the amount of success ABT had making a spring that works as well as the ones from their HAS kit does with the DRC dampers. It does make the car ride better. But no matter how well engineered they are, they're still a band aid for a bigger problem.

We'll see what comes of the conversations in the next few days. My instincts tell me I'm going to go from the original Ohlins rates of 685 front and 800 rear to something more like 400-450 front and 450-500 rear. This will of course depend on the amount of stroke available in the dampers. But if I can't get down that low, I may decide against Ohlins. If that happens, an FPSpec bespoke setup may be the only way to go.

[wwhan]

The 3DM webpage does list the spring rate for the Ohlins coilover, which seem to be for track use: https://3dmmotorsport.com/collection...uspension-kits

"Option 1: Öhlins Road and Track

Part #: AUS MU00S1
Öhlins front spring: 120 N/mm (685 lbs/in)
Öhlins rear spring: 140 N/mm (800 lbs/in)"

In my old 99 Mustang, I had a full Griggs suspension, but I put on the lowest practical tension coilover springs, which gave a nice street ride. These springs were much lower tension than the recommened 600 lb/in front springs: https://www.griggsracing.com/griggs-...mustang-94-04/

99 Mustang Suspension Mods:

Maximum Motorsports camber/caster plates, 4bolt

Rear Suspension Mods
Griggs under car welded subframe connectors
Steeda Aluminum rear lower control arm (not by APEX)
Griggs SD torque arm
Griggs HD panhard bar
Griggs 175 LB/in specific rate rear springs
Koni rear coilover kit & Koni double adjustable shocks
TA girdle on rear axle

Front Suspension Mods:
Griggs Bump steer kit
Maximum Motorsports camber/caster plates, 4bolt
Griggs front coilover kit
Tokico 5 way adjustable struts
Griggs 275 Lb/in specific rate front springs
Griggs Tubular 'K' member
Griggs Tubular Control arms/ball joints.

[djmika]

wwhan,

I'm not sure if you're saying that they seem to be for track use due to the rates but if you are, I agree. That said, from what I can tell, these are just the rates that come with the Road and Track kit and it sounds like they think this should work for street use. To which I say, agree to disagree. Can you drive on the street with them, Sure. But I think this is why people feel that coilovers are inherently stiff. I get the distinct feeling that they're all slanted this direction. Either way, I won't be putting springs this stiff on my car. Regardless of how great Ohlins dampers are, I think the chances this will be way too stiff for me are about 95%.

Interesting contrast on the Mustang. I don't think one can read too far into this though. For one, those Mustangs were several hundred lbs. lighter than the RS5 Sportback. And while I'm no expert, I'd have to think the geometry could be vastly different and that must change things as well. But still, I have a feeling your point was the contrast and 175/275 vs. 650/800 does provide that. We're not talking about the difference between a Miata and a school bus here.

Most telling for me is the S5 spec:

Stock Front: 250 lb./in.

Stock Rear: 260 lb./in.


Because this is such a leap of faith and because of the undertaking of deleting DRC that comes along with this, my instincts have to significantly factor in. And they are. I've ridden in cars that have coilovers that have felt good on the street. They've been "street comfort" type products. The fact that manufacturers seem to think RS owners aren't after this seems to me to be a disconnect. I see it the exact opposite. I think relatively few RS5s will see track time and I think that people who buy them instead of other options in their "class" do so because they value their more docile nature. As such, I've gone full circle as to the rational for this post. I think there needs to be an option for people who are sick of trying to fix DRC with HAS kits that only kind of work and more importantly, making excuses for the objectively poor suspension in an expensive, performance-oriented vehicle.

[wwhan]

The point of the mustang example, is one can go a lot lighter than the intial coilover springs that come with the kit for street use and adjust the dampers as necessary.

I think it would be help to find out the spring rates for the stock B9 RS5 springs. They may be a fair amount stiffer than the S5.

Just putting the OEM adjustable suspension B9 S5 springs on the B9 RS5 might improve the ride comfort for the street, but without knowing the stock B9 RS5 spring rates, that is only a Wild A-- Guess. One might need to put a 20mm extension on the stock RS5 dampers, with S5 springs for stock S5 ride height? I am not sure what height range, the RS5 dampers can handle.

[djmika]

I'll see what I can do about getting the rates from the RS5. It'll be interesting to say the least. The Sport suspension and DRC are such an odd duck that half of me expects them to be the same or very similar to the S5 and the other half expects something off the wall.

And for the record, I had no plans to use a stock or aftermarket S5 spring with the RS5 dampers. It's just a datapoint and since I haven't found anyone that published the rates for the RS, it's the closest I could get. And I totally agree that it's worth finding the rate for the RS but since the car's weights are nearly identical and if I do anything, I'm going to replace the dampers and springs, I felt that it was a useful datapoint.

The hunt goes on.

[Dan99]

I'll see what I can do about getting the rates from the RS5. It'll be interesting to say the least. The Sport suspension and DRC are such an odd duck that half of me expects them to be the same or very similar to the S5 and the other half expects something off the wall.

And for the record, I had no plans to use a stock or aftermarket S5 spring with the RS5 dampers. It's just a datapoint and since I haven't found anyone that published the rates for the RS, it's the closest I could get. And I totally agree that it's worth finding the rate for the RS but since the car's weights are nearly identical and if I do anything, I'm going to replace the dampers and springs, I felt that it was a useful datapoint.

The hunt goes on.

I could not find the link again, but I ran across an Audi tech video recently that said RS spring rates are about 15% more than S spring rates.

[djmika]

That would make sense Dan. I wonder if they're the same or similar between DRC and non-DRC cars. Either way, I think 300ish up front and 350ish in the rear is a reasonable guestimate.

[Dan99]

That would make sense Dan. I wonder if they're the same or similar between DRC and non-DRC cars. Either way, I think 300ish up front and 350ish in the rear is a reasonable guestimate.

Old habits die hard. I'd like to take this moment to try and correct our collective mindset, mine included.

Collectively, and incorrectly, we have been referring to DRC as the source of harshness in the RS5 suspension. Those with the standard suspension say they prefer the ride over DRC but, as it turns out, you can't buy an RS4/5/6/7 without DRC. They all have it. The harshness appears to come with the Sport Suspension, not DRC. DRC is really a hydraulic system of diagonal sway bars to control body lean. There is no adjustable component in DRC. It operates the same way regardless of Drive Mode (Comfort/Auto/Dynamic), and regardless of Standard vs Sport Suspension. Instead, it is the Sport Suspension that seems to be the main contributor to the harshness. The standard suspension does not have adjustable shocks, but the Sport Suspension does. Here is a more elaborate explanation:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14913008

With that in mind, the relevant question for this thread is about the spring rates for the Standard vs Sport Suspension, not DRC vs non-DRC. If you want a non-DRC suspension from the factory, you have to purchase an S car instead of an RS car. But, we know that the S suspension sits about 1 inch higher and has softer springs, so that's not really an option for an RS car.

My guess is that all of the RS5s have the same springs and DRC, with the primary difference being the adjustable shocks that come with the Sport Suspension. Perhaps sway bars and/or other components differ as well, but its really the spring rates we are going after in this thread. I suppose a good place to start would be to figure out if the part numbers for springs in the Standard or Sport Suspension are the same. Perhaps they have different springs, but I think it's more likely that the main difference is the shocks.

As a side note, removing DRC removes the diagonal sway bars that are intended to reduce body lean in corners and when accelerating or braking. If you remove DRC you may need to compensate with firmer sway bars, but that will also add to the firmness of the ride. Obviously you can remove DRC and still have a car that handles well, which is what the Competition package does. I would look into the changes incorporated into the Competition package if I was considering a DRC delete. For example, I believe the sway bars are different in the Competition package, and there may be other differences as well.

[djmika]

Dan,

Personally, I knew most of what you've stated above. The one thing I did not know was that the non-sport suspension still incorporated DRC.

And while we certainly do tend to misuse DRC to describe the sport suspension, I think most that have looked at all deeply into this are aware that it's actually the dampers in the sport suspension we don't like, not the DRC itself.

To me, the interesting part about the above is that auto manufacturers continue to include suspension with multiple modes. And in my experience, few actually work well. I find one well-tuned damper to almost always feel more "right." Conversely, I feel like most modes in adjustable suspension all feel somewhat compromised. Our cars are just among the most glaring example.

And I also agree that larger sway bars may be necessary if one was to delete DRC. Lots of options there including ABT and KW who I believe both make bars that are intended to match the rates and damping on their coilovers. I think it's pretty likely that just as the coilovers in the Competition car are made by KW, so are the bars. The interesting thing that we'll probably never know is if Audi and KW changed the spring rates between the standard v4 and the ones that go into the comp car.

One last consideration is that I'm pretty sure sway bars are a compromise intended to allow the use of softer spring rates to maintain ride quality while controlling body roll. Going back to the Ohlin spring rates that are probably twice those of the OE RS5 springs, I'm pretty sure the need for significantly stiffer sway bars may be at least partially negated.

[wwhan]

The base B9 RS5 does not have DRC.

The base B9 RS5 has a sport suspension.

The optional B9 RS5 with Dynamic Ride Control (DRC) also has a sport suspension. This is part of the dynamic package.

https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/...ortback-12417:
"The RS sport suspension plus with the Dynamic Ride Control (DRC) hydraulic roll and pitch stabilization is available as an option."

https://www.audiusa.com/us/web/en/mo..._techdata.html

"Suspension

Front
Five-link RS sport suspension

Rear
Five-arm RS sport suspension

Optional
RS sport suspension plus with Dynamic Ride Control (DRC)
or
Coilover suspension system with front and rear sport sway bars "

[Dan99]

The base B9 RS5 does not have DRC.

The base B9 RS5 has a sport suspension.

The optional B9 RS5 with Dynamic Ride Control (DRC) also has a sport suspension. This is part of the dynamic package.

I found the DRC info on an Audi technology page. Perhaps I misread it...? I searched briefly for that page and could not find it, but I'm also traveling and can't spend much time on this at the moment.

[initiala4]

Dan,

Personally, I knew most of what you've stated above. The one thing I did not know was that the non-sport suspension still incorporated DRC.

And while we certainly do tend to misuse DRC to describe the sport suspension, I think most that have looked at all deeply into this are aware that it's actually the dampers in the sport suspension we don't like, not the DRC itself.

To me, the interesting part about the above is that auto manufacturers continue to include suspension with multiple modes. And in my experience, few actually work well. I find one well-tuned damper to almost always feel more "right." Conversely, I feel like most modes in adjustable suspension all feel somewhat compromised. Our cars are just among the most glaring example.

And I also agree that larger sway bars may be necessary if one was to delete DRC. Lots of options there including ABT and KW who I believe both make bars that are intended to match the rates and damping on their coilovers. I think it's pretty likely that just as the coilovers in the Competition car are made by KW, so are the bars. The interesting thing that we'll probably never know is if Audi and KW changed the spring rates between the standard v4 and the ones that go into the comp car.

One last consideration is that I'm pretty sure sway bars are a compromise intended to allow the use of softer spring rates to maintain ride quality while controlling body roll. Going back to the Ohlin spring rates that are probably twice those of the OE RS5 springs, I'm pretty sure the need for significantly stiffer sway bars may be at least partially negated.

The OEM shocks has pretty much no rebound settings, thus the spring that came with it tends to make the car ride quite bouncy. The springs that came with Ohlins may look high, but it is way way less bouncy than OEM sport suspension.

[djmika]

initial,

Right... I would imagine so. And thank for the feedback.

My one main concern is just overall harshness of ride. Doubling (or more) the spring rate seemingly HAS to have some impact in that respect.

We have a lot of broken pavement and less than smooth surfaces. Factory suspension has enough compliance and isolation to absorb this kind of thing. But my experience with coilovers is the opposite. I think I mentioned that I did KW v3 on a B8.5 S4 and that ended up being a mess. The vibration and harshness transmitted into the cabin increased exponentially. I'm not willing to live with that with this car. As much as I dislike the factory sport suspension, I'd rather it than any real noticeable harshness and noise/vibration. Somewhat stiffer I can deal with. Noise, no.

I drove a pretty F80 M3 a few years ago that I really wanted to like. Here I sit posting, still posting on the Audi forums.

[Mortys66]

Mortys66 - I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. Are you basically saying that you're hoping for a tuner and manufacturer to put what we're talking about here together? And if we find something, would you be interested in something more personalized as opposed to just hoping the off-the-shelf Ohlins kit will work for you?

I will speak for my experience as this RS5 was my first non American manufacturer car and I researched thoroughly, or at least what I thought was thorough to find my perfect commuter car. Power, handling, looks, seating capacity, all wheel drive and lastly (somewhat), fuel economy. I knew that everything would not be exactly perfect, but I could live with close in many categories, until I could address the downfalls in order of priority. I bought every option I could get on the car thinking I could disable the ones I didn't want and fine tune the options I needed or wanted. Once I started driving the car I could never really find the sweet spot for the suspension, like some of the others on the forums. My car window sticker addresses the suspension in a couple places; one standard category listed as 'RS sport suspension', an one option category that states 'Dynamic Package' - 'RS sport suspension plus with Dynamic Ride Control (DRC)'. I'm not sure if this matters, but for full disclosure there is a standard equipment listing of 'Quattro all-wheel drive system w/ sport rear differential'. I don't think, as far as I know, the drive system and differential play into the suspension setup, but to save the question I listed it in case it does. I upgraded the things that I felt needed it and am now at 90k miles on the odometer. When I had a new set of front tires installed the installing tech did the inspection and said my sport suspension shocks are leaking and in need of replacement. I thought this would be a good time to get a tailored suspension setup that is better than the stock system. If I was going to spend the money on replacement I thought I could make sure that replacing with an aftermarket shock setup that most were happy with. At a few years since the inception of the B9 RS5 I thought the aftermarket products would be more readily available and that we should by now have found a company or two that have perfected the daily driven comfort mode, then rotate a dial to reach the sporty / track needs of the performance car community. I drive my car hard on the street, I have not tracked it or tried the driving school / driving course options offered around Chicago or Indianapolis areas. I am interested in the Ohlins MU00S1 setup on my RS5 Sportback, I have not heard of anyone that has installed it on an RS5, but I have read that other vehicle owners with the Ohlins setups have been happy with them. Lamborghini and Audi R8 owners say it transforms the car.

[Dan99]

...I drive my car hard on the street, I have not tracked it or tried the driving school / driving course options offered around Chicago or Indianapolis areas...

Autobahncc.com is south of Chicago and they offer a number of half and full day classes and track + autocross and skid pad exercises. Your RS5 probably handles much better than you realize. It is not a Porsche, nor an R8, but it is quite capable.

[djmika]

Morty,

I think you and I see things similarly. You brought up some points I'll comment on.

I think it's proving difficult in general for manufacturers to execute suspension setups with different drive modes. I've driven and ridden in multiple expensive cars from accomplished manufacturers (not just Audi) with these setups. My takeaway is this; many have two or three flawed modes instead of one good one. I think that at least one reason for this is dampers and spring rates need to be designed carefully to complement each other. But since coil springs rates obviously cannot be adjusted on the fly, the adjustment has to do with damping. So, I think comfort mode leans toward being underdamped. Auto mode is closest to appropriate damping and Dynamic is a mess, at least in our cars. But overall, it probably leans toward being overdamped. There are ways around this and there are manufacturers who've had more success with drive modes pertaining to suspension, but I think overall, it's still a work in progress.

Dynamic Package on the B9 RS includes at least exhaust, red brake calipers and Sport (3-way adjustable) suspension. The sport suspension has to do with the dampers only, not DRC. It was recently pointed out on another thread that ALL B9 RS5s have DRC including cars with standard, single-mode suspension. That single mode should theoretically resemble the auto setting in cars with sport suspension. Dynamic Ride Control is the system that interlinks dampers across opposite corners of the car with the objective of minimizing roll during cornering. In my and I think several other's opinions, DRC is actually pretty darn successful in achieving its objective and inaccurately gets labeled as having any responsibility for the poor damping of the Sport Suspension. Also, anyone who has driven both the standard and sport suspension cars probably realizes that the standard suspension better damped, overall, than the auto or any other mode in the sport suspension.

As to why there are few aftermarket kits out there, I think that has to do with manufacturers' assumption that there'll be lower demand. I think this is based on the fact that A, there are fewer RS cars than other B9-platform models sold and, on the road. And B, people who buy these cars, especially new, are less likely to [permanently] disable/remove the 3-way adjustable sport suspension, flawed as it may be. This leaves them building aftermarket suspension for a niche and I think they assume that niche is going to be performance, as opposed to comfort oriented. Just my guess.

As for the Ohlins Road and Track kit, I would encourage you to hold off for the moment. It's very stiffly sprung, and my instincts tell me it won't be great on the street for most. I've got a few of irons in the fire. I had a great conversation with one of the guys I've been talking to about this project just this morning. By this time next week, we may have some semblance of a plan. Once things come into focus, there may be an option for something that will work for guys like you and me.

[Mortys66]

there may be an option for something that will work for guys like you and me.

Thanks for the reply and I am glad you have some irons in the fire, needless to say this platform can use some options. I look forward to seeing what comes out of this thread and kudos to those in this Audi community that don't just settle for what others say is acceptable when it comes to our vehicles. I don't want some of the boxes checked, I want all the boxes checked that are important to me...

[wwhan]

.... The sport suspension has to do with the dampers only, not DRC. It was recently pointed out on another thread that ALL B9 RS5s have DRC including cars with standard, single-mode suspension. That single mode should theoretically resemble the auto setting in cars with sport suspension. Dynamic Ride Control is the system that interlinks dampers across opposite corners of the car with the objective of minimizing roll during cornering.....

All the B9 RS5 have sport suspension

Only the B9 RS5 with the dynamic option have DRC dampers with adjustable suspension.

The standard B9 RS5 has a non-adjustable, non-DRC suspension (standard dampers).

A simple solution is to switch to the Audi OEM standard B9 RS5 non-adjustable, non-DRC suspension & springs (standard dampers), if one has issues with the adjustable DRC dampers. KW makes a defeat connector option for DRC cars going to coilovers.

[djmika]

wwhan,

I originally thought that as well but then I think a few people on here are saying that all of the B9 RS5s had DRC. Maybe I misunderstood something.

I've looked before to see if I could find non-DRC dampers. I'm not sure if I was able to find them or not. The parts catalog takes some work to comb through.

For people who may be interested, do you have a SKU? My guess is that a OE non-DRC damper would be made by Sachs. Then the next question, can it be shipped? I see a lot of parts that cannot be shipped due to hazardous materials.

If there is indeed, a Sachs OE shock for B9RS5, that, with say KW HAS (non DRC) or even the MSS I tried may be an option for some.

Before I bought my car, I drove a car that didn't have the Dynamic suspension. It also had black brake calipers. It was a 2021. I'd have considered the car had it not had the silver interior but that was a deal breaker for me.

[wwhan]

From the Audi news release Aug 20, 2019: "All-new 2019 Audi RS 5 Sportback pricing is announced"
https://audiclubna.org/all-new-2019-...-is-announced/

"Chassis
With the standard RS sport suspension, the RS 5 Sportback sits 7 mm lower than the 2018 S5 Sportback. RS sport suspension plus with Dynamic Ride Control, is also available. These single-tube dampers have a variable characteristic that the driver can adjust in three stages. The diagonally opposed pairs of shock absorbers are linked by hydraulic lines and a central valve. When cornering at speed, the valves regulate the oil flow in the shock absorber of the spring-deflected front wheel at the outside of the curve, which reduces pitch and roll movement and improves handling. Drivers can customize their driving experience through the standard Audi drive select system, which offers four drive modes: comfort, auto, dynamic and individual."

From the 2019 order sheet:

[Dan99]

Dan,

Personally, I knew most of what you've stated above. The one thing I did not know was that the non-sport suspension still incorporated DRC.

I think I was wrong about this. I have tried to track down the document that led me to this conclusion, but have not been able to find it. Perhaps I misread something. I have since looked up Audi shock absorber parts and the standard suspension shocks do not have the hydraulic connection needed by DRC.

[Dan99]

Morty,

I think you and I see things similarly. You brought up some points I'll comment on.

I think it's proving difficult in general for manufacturers to execute suspension setups with different drive modes.

This Audi video discusses how they approach suspension tuning and, perhaps, illustrates why it's not so easy to successfully modify individual components.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GidKtCdCqt4

[turdzi]

Interesting subject. I'm considering Ohlins myself but I've noticed one issue. The product doesn't seem to come with plugges design to plugged DRC lines on cars with DRC suspension and this system needs to be plugged in proper way otherwise it will be damage.
I know that KW V4 supplies those pluggs but not Ohlins.
So questions to you guys with DRC suspension , how did you plugged DRC ?
I've also addressed this issue directly to Ohlins and I'm looking forward to se what they will come up with.

[djmika]

Interesting subject. I'm considering Ohlins myself but I've noticed one issue. The product doesn't seem to come with plugges design to plugged DRC lines on cars with DRC suspension and this system needs to be plugged in proper way otherwise it will be damage.
I know that KW V4 supplies those pluggs but not Ohlins.
So questions to you guys with DRC suspension , how did you plugged DRC ?
I've also addressed this issue directly to Ohlins and I'm looking forward to se what they will come up with.

You can order the KW kit separately and it will work fine with any aftermarket suspension system that requires you to delete DRC.

https://www.kwsuspensions.com/produc...-68510476.html

Ohlins probably won't have much to say about this. In fact, they didn't have much to say when I asked them about their springs being twice the rate of stock which is why I haven't pulled the trigger on them myself. If you do decide to go this route, please keep us posted!

[turdzi]

You can order the KW kit separately and it will work fine with any aftermarket suspension system that requires you to delete DRC.

https://www.kwsuspensions.com/produc...-68510476.html

Ohlins probably won't have much to say about this. In fact, they didn't have much to say when I asked them about their springs being twice the rate of stock which is why I haven't pulled the trigger on them myself. If you do decide to go this route, please keep us posted!

Thanks for info. What did they say and what springs did you go for ?