2023: You guys kinda getting beatin up in today's world?

[A1 A2 German]

Once upon a time it was a little humorous to see some 20 year old take a $3K Mk3 Golf off Craigslist, throw a VRT-6 in it, done from his mom's driveway and go on a killing spree. It was also kinda a weird time as is was blasphemy to boost a V8 because "We have displacement" and "Turbo's are for kids.", which again funny to see a Mk2 GTI 2.0 16vT doing damage on everyone's exotics, muscle and sportscars (along with a Evo's, FD Rx7's, etc doing damage). Now to be fair, most the cars couldn't fair in the quarter due vs their 0-60 rwd times...but highway pulls, rolling 1/4's, race tracks it was kinda nuts. And no doubt, the mighty B5 S4 with something simply as a healthy stage 3 variant was just wild, and those 0-60 times, just nuts! I have to say if it wasn't for having to pull the motor, andor if they top mounted the turbos on B5 S4's, they would of been exceptionally more popular or sought after.

But now in 2023 things are completely different, it's pure insanity out there, talk about a whole new world out there that I have to say can be a little.....discouraging from a competitors perspective. So how are you guys fairing? Can you get enough outta the gate to place some distance or do they run you down or what? Has is gotten to the point where you kinda feel like your S4 is kinda a nice admiral relitic of the past? Are we at a point where you can't, just can't keep up with todays world? - The A1 and A2 German

[CELison]

A stage 3 S4 from 2004 is just as fast as a tuned/bolt on B9 on the highway.

[VR6Bomber]

I remember when the 90's era 5.0 Mustangs was barely making 200hp CRANK.
I mean barely...

That was easy work for any stage 1 B5S4

E36 M3..? wasn't much to worry about either.


Manufacturers are putting out stock 400+ hp cars these days..
It's bananas

When I see a current model Mustang or Charger, I don't know if it is 400 , 750, 900 hp..?

[q20v]

I just finished my Stage 3 build in the summer of 2021 (basic K04) and feel confident against stock mainstream BMWs, Mercs, Inifinity's, etc. Haven't raced anything too crazy yet. Has enough HP/TQ to pull hard on the highway, scare the crap out of my passengers, light up the tires when the weather is somewhat cool, induce power drifts in roundabouts, make me giggle every time I get on the boost... I guess it's good enough for me. Much prefer to drive a moderately fast classic than a soulless, video game-like car that may be quicker but looks like every other competitor out there. I know the 2.7 is hard to work on, but newer cars can be a lot worse (IMO) and perhaps more intimidating.

But I got my licence in 1998 and my 1990 Audi 90 in 1999, shortly after fell in love with the B5S4. So I'm heavily partial to the B5. I think (IMO) a solid K04 setup is ideal for the platform in terms of performance and reliability (if done right). I understand the desire to chase big HP numbers and all that but it's not worth the tradeoffs to me.

There'a also the whole topic of 'built not bought'. I take a lot of pride in having built my B5 exactly the way I wanted it to be. Nothing wrong with just buying something and showing it off, but I prefer to admire cars at shows that have been built vs those that just rolled off the dealer lot. Don't get me wrong, my B5 would be gone in a heartbeat if a F40 showed up in my driveway haha

[LJS]

FWIW-
I could care less that there are a bunch of newer vehicles that can out accelerate, brake or handle better than my S4...I have owned my Audi since new and have yet to get bored with it...
Yes it's old but has a bunch of character an is a nice analog vehicle --- NO touch screens, no safety nannies (except ABS-my S4 has no traction control), beautiful interior with great materials and tactile feel...I still love its' looks and the fun I have in driving-
Are there faults--SURE....Do I care---NOPE...Do I care what other people think of my AUDI---definitely NO....I'm suppose to like it, no one else....
Do I appreciate other peoples choice of autos- SURE-we're all automobile enthusiasts
Am I envious of what others drive---Sometimes
Am I in the market for a newer vehicle---NOPE- I have yet to find a new, affordable, vehicle that can replace this S4(affordability is the key word here)
I'm an AUDI B5 S4 fanboy---what can I say...

[VR6Bomber]

I have yet to find a new, affordable, vehicle that can replace this S4(affordability is the key word here)
I'm an AUDI B5 S4 fanboy---what can I say...

I got somewhat excited when I first heard the new RS6 was coming to US..
Until I saw $120,000-whatever

-pffft nope.

[wstpride92]

The B5s4 is the muscle car of my generation. I remember going to waterfest in the early 2000's and watching these things kill everything. I def couldn't afford one then and am happy to be able to have the funds to build or restore one today. There will always be faster cars so honestly who cares. I am a OEM + type of guy so if I can have a 20+ yr old minty B5S4 I am happy. And if it lays down close to 600AWHP, I'll be even happier.

[S4James]

The car is completely outclassed now. Guys with bolt-on bmws can give me a hard time, and thats with me running well over 500whp. Im ok with that. There was a time this car was nearly unbeatable. And I still have it.

[LZ9ROAD]

New cars may be nice, faster, and give me a run for my money, but nothing beats being able to still drive one today. There's just something magical about being able to row through gears and truly enjoy what you have assembled. Who doesn't love a good 2nd and 3rd run, feels fantastic even today.... Same thing with my E36, may be beaten by a Camry off the line but damn, it feels so good.... With that being said, I wish we had more newer avants in the US...

[koolkoreanked]

Yup a little annoyed as almost any tuned new performance car is faster than my s4. It’s still a blast to drive, still faster than a stock c6 z06 on down, but man are new cars FAAAAAST.

Most likely going to sell it soon. It’s still fun but I don’t find myself driving it as much as I use to. Lately I’ve had more fun driving a stock 997 than I do the b5.

[q20v]

I also still get tons of pleasure driving around in my 1988 E34 6 cylinder 185hp 5-speed. Cloth seats, no AC, cassette player and radio only... would hands down drive it vs a new car. Also if I want my S4 to feel like 1500hp I just drive around in the BMW for a few days.

[RMode]

Once upon a time it was a little humorous to see some 20 year old take a $3K Mk3 Golf off Craigslist, throw a VRT-6 in it, done from his mom's driveway and go on a killing spree. It was also kinda a weird time as is was blasphemy to boost a V8 because "We have displacement" and "Turbo's are for kids.", which again funny to see a Mk2 GTI 2.0 16vT doing damage on everyone's exotics, muscle and sportscars (along with a Evo's, FD Rx7's, etc doing damage). Now to be fair, most the cars couldn't fair in the quarter due vs their 0-60 rwd times...but highway pulls, rolling 1/4's, race tracks it was kinda nuts. And no doubt, the mighty B5 S4 with something simply as a healthy stage 3 variant was just wild, and those 0-60 times, just nuts! I have to say if it wasn't for having to pull the motor, andor if they top mounted the turbos on B5 S4's, they would of been exceptionally more popular or sought after.

But now in 2023 things are completely different, it's pure insanity out there, talk about a whole new world out there that I have to say can be a little.....discouraging from a competitors perspective. So how are you guys fairing? Can you get enough outta the gate to place some distance or do they run you down or what? Has is gotten to the point where you kinda feel like your S4 is kinda a nice admiral relitic of the past? Are we at a point where you can't, just can't keep up with todays world? - The A1 and A2 German

Turbo access is just a front subframe swap away

Something is always faster. Something is not always as engaging, or as fun. Or frankly, as challenging. The latter is what brought me back to the S4 (the first Audi I ever bought was a new S4 in 2000 fwiw). I've owned a lot of Audi's since. I own 4 others now. I've owned a lot of cars, and a lot of them were way quicker than my S4 is now. But shrug, something always is. I've had many of the "cool" enthusiast cars - GTR's, the 911, a bunch of M3's, Evo's, STi, etc. etc. . I've modified them, played with them, took them apart, put them back together. But I just enjoy this car. I like owning it. I like making it just a little better each time it has something done. I like that it's old, but not so old that it drives like a 66 Nova. I like that I can use it, and not be afraid of it, as I was with some other cars I had. I enjoy the hunt for things that used to be available and aren't anymore. 48 cars in my life so far, I've realized I enjoy the overall process more than anything else. To that end, it's no wonder I have the S4 still, whereas all the other stuff either sits (my B9 for example, which in retrospect was a giant waste of money), or has been sold through the years.

Things progress. Often it's the performance, but almost as often, it's at the expense of something else.

I love new cars too, and I will have more. I sort of think the inability to secure a new RS3, even when I worked for them, was a blessing in disguise.

[Mattr567]

Much too young to remember all this old timer talk (23), nowadays 20 year olds are going on a different kind of killing spree!

That time period is definitely a different era. Pre smart phone, everyone not recording everything. Information harder to find. Had to know someone who could tune your engine, etc. Had to hear through the grapevine about a late night meet/race not posted on Instagram. I love watching old gumball videos with imported B5 RS4s racing across America etc. The world felt bigger, less tracked and measured.

Love my '99 B5, was my first car at 15. Love the analog feel. '90s cars seem to strike this perfect balance of analog but with enough modern features like simple electronics and enough technology not to be a huge hassle. CIS black magic be gone! I have a lot of seat time in a 6mt stage 2 single pulley B8 S4 and it was a blast, but I kept coming back to the B5. Something about how much speed it shows and no nannies is really rewarding in a small package. Driven tuned 8Vs and it's the same size but the analogness is gone. Slow car fast is the true mantra. Same deal with small displacement i4 sport bikes!!

B5 to me is the transition car between old Audi and modern Audi. It's the last of the old school cars. It strikes a fantastic balance between modern comfort and old school analog feel as any good '90s car should. Getting to drive a 20v 90Q reaffirmed that.

Sent from my GM1917 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Blazius]

I mean also look at it like this.

Yes todays cars are stupid 'fast' for what they are BUT:

How much are you paying for such perfomance?
You can build a 500-600 HP S4 with 1500kg for less than 10k$ if you are hands on that will eat most cars that cost 50k$ or so, maybe save some BMW' m's and stuff.

Also goddamn 997 and S4.. yeah S4 is good but come on its only the middle ground, the 997 is a legend I'd give up any s4 in a heartbeat for a 997 personally

[JRYtheS4]

This forum always makes me go search for b5 s4s for sale lol

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[DonnieDark0]

I have owned all sorts of cars, new & old. I may be oldschool but I have yet to find anything that compares to the b5 s4. There is just something so special about it, just like previous posters said.....the analog feel, tactile feel, responsiveness, styling, its so damn cool to me in every single way. On one hand I wish I was able to move one from it but I know at this point after 20+ years in the B5 scene, its the only car I will ever truly love & admire. Long Live the B5 s4!

[Silverex]

There’s always going to be a faster car but my pump gas stage3 deal fairs pretty well against 80-90% of cars I would run across on highway. Haven’t had anyone pull on me but it’s not like I’m trying to race a Tesla plaid if it pulls up next to me either. Lol.

One thing that amazes me is how often I get compliments from random guys of all ages.....even had a cute chick ask if the Avant are rare since she never sees em.

[zatch_303]

Beatin up? LOL no. This thing still mops the floor with most cars out there. Which shows how well this platform has aged considering its 20+ years old at this point. The looks/design of the B5 are still one of the best looking vehicles ever made. Obviously I'm biased, but there aren't many older and especially newer cars that are as sexy as the B5. It's subtle, classy, and yet still a hint of aggressive. It is well rounded as far as capability too, it does many things well. Plus, most cars that can beat up on the B5 S4 are all automatic these days, which is an atrocity in itself.

[S4James]

you need faster friends.

[Tec_Nine]

I've owned my B5 S4 for almost 12 years now, it's a vast stage 3 and I can say it still holds up pretty well for a car that's 23 years old. Still can pull on 392 chargers and challengers and a lot of modern cars. I'm not planning getting rid of it probably ever, working for Audi I have been able to drive a lot of our modern Audis. Yes they're faster, more complex and a whole lot more expensive. However the B5 platform will always be special to me, as stated previously it's the perfect balance of analog driving accompanied with modern tech and touches.

[jrieder]

Whenever I see a group of B8/B9s pull up together in a line for a meet, I can't help but think of the scene in American Psycho where they are all sitting around the table exchanging business cards thinking they are unique in their own way, when in reality, they're all the same: tasteless & classless.

The B5 has such a raw, visceral driving experience paired with timeless styling. I'm biased, but oh well :P

[DonnieDark0]

Whenever I see a group of B8/B9s pull up together in a line for a meet, I can't help but think of the scene in American Psycho where they are all sitting around the table exchanging business cards thinking they are unique in their own way, when in reality, they're all the same: tasteless & classless.

The B5 has such a raw, visceral driving experience paired with timeless styling. I'm biased, but oh well :P

I agree with both points lol

[CELison]

Whenever I see a group of B8/B9s pull up together in a line for a meet, I can't help but think of the scene in American Psycho where they are all sitting around the table exchanging business cards thinking they are unique in their own way, when in reality, they're all the same: tasteless & classless.

The B5 has such a raw, visceral driving experience paired with timeless styling. I'm biased, but oh well :P

Idk, I really like my b9 lol. The interior is great, all the tech, massage seats, ect. I think they look good too.

[KansasQuattro]

I would be tempted to let mine go and get a new RS3, but no manual transmission is an absolute deal breaker for me. Very stupid of Audi.

[S4James]

the TT RS still has em, if you like cutting hair.

[slow ride]

These cars would be a lot faster with a modern gearbox for sure(DSG or 8 speed). IDK I mean you can always upgrade and start down the path of mods again and again, the results will always be the same broken parts and more money spent on the next platform(I've done it a few times myself). Perhaps I'm just that old, but stick the money into your homes or other investments that go up in value. I'm 46 and paid off our acreage 6 years ago, but I lost my job of 20 years a few years back. Although it sucks to not have the good job(place went to shit anyway), the wife still has an equivalent job and we have no bills so I'd rather have the safety net of low debt and tinker with my old junk as it makes me just as happy as tinkering with newer stuff.

[S4James]

you aint wrong. ive got 5 more years and im out of debt completely. . Not sure i would have managed that buying 80K cars. Even if I could afford it.

[Stage_3]

Whenever I see a group of B8/B9s pull up together in a line for a meet, I can't help but think of the scene in American Psycho where they are all sitting around the table exchanging business cards thinking they are unique in their own way, when in reality, they're all the same: tasteless & classless.

The B5 has such a raw, visceral driving experience paired with timeless styling. I'm biased, but oh well :P

Have you driven a full bolt on B9 S4/SQ5? For $10k on the B5 you'll get a high 11 low 12 second car, that holds its own on the track as well; vs $10k on a B9 and you have a low to mid 10 second car, that probably laps the B5 on the track.

I own both platforms. I prefer the B9 over B5 anymore.. the B5 has a soft spot in my heart but it isn't my preferred driver in any situation or condition. Youd have to go crazy on the B5 platform with a full built motor or motor swap to come even close to Texas & Oklahoma street cars. Taking the B5 out isn't any fun lol.

[RMode]

Have you driven a full bolt on B9 S4/SQ5? For $10k on the B5 you'll get a high 11 low 12 second car, that holds its own on the track as well; vs $10k on a B9 and you have a low to mid 10 second car, that probably laps the B5 on the track.

I own both platforms. I prefer the B9 over B5 anymore.. the B5 has a soft spot in my heart but it isn't my preferred driver in any situation or condition. Youd have to go crazy on the B5 platform with a full built motor or motor swap to come even close to Texas & Oklahoma street cars. Taking the B5 out isn't any fun lol.

I'm the reverse lol. I too have a B9 S4. Haven't even driven it since January 21 lol. This will likely be the year I part with it. I do like it and enjoy it, but I definitely prefer my B5, so it gets used. I even use my B7 S4 more than the B9, because at least I drove that in the fall lol.

[DonnieDark0]

Have you driven a full bolt on B9 S4/SQ5? For $10k on the B5 you'll get a high 11 low 12 second car, that holds its own on the track as well; vs $10k on a B9 and you have a low to mid 10 second car, that probably laps the B5 on the track.

I own both platforms. I prefer the B9 over B5 anymore.. the B5 has a soft spot in my heart but it isn't my preferred driver in any situation or condition. Youd have to go crazy on the B5 platform with a full built motor or motor swap to come even close to Texas & Oklahoma street cars. Taking the B5 out isn't any fun lol.

My b8.5 S4 was beautiful, comfortable, sexy, fast, refined, it was an extremely fun and amazing car to own & drive. I drove that thing all over the East Coast. BUT I got bored of it pretty quickly. It was actually too nice of a car, too smooth, too modern for me. I know I am in the minority when it comes to car taste but as much as I loved the car, I drove my B5 so much more. To me the B5 is a relic but still modern. It just has that right balance of oldschool , analog feel but still cool as shit with the interior / exterior styling.

The B9s and B8.5s are better cars overall but if I had to choose one, it would be the B5 everytime.

[Ducati899]

I was struggling a bit this afternoon with my restore. Then it started raining. Then I read this thread. Now I'm all good again! Long live the B5 S4.
Thanks All!

[Mirror70]

'90s cars seem to strike this perfect balance of analog but with enough modern features like simple electronics and enough technology not to be a huge hassle.

This is exactly why we've seen values on 1990s German sporty cars rise. They're the only cars to offer a truly analog mechanical driving experience while also offering turnkey driving. This makes them truly approachable to even the most mild enthusiast while still offering something for the most hardcore enthusiast. The B5 S4, E36 and E46 M3, the 996 - all of these have seen values rise to irrational levels (IMO) because of this pure driving & easy ownership combo.

[RMode]

This is exactly why we've seen values on 1990s German sporty cars rise. They're the only cars to offer a truly analog mechanical driving experience while also offering turnkey driving. This makes them truly approachable to even the most mild enthusiast while still offering something for the most hardcore enthusiast. The B5 S4, E36 and E46 M3, the 996 - all of these have seen values rise to irrational levels (IMO) because of this pure driving & easy ownership combo.

The S4 hasn't gone to irrational I don't think, and the 996 is still quite a bargain in all but GT3 spec (and you could argue these are well undervalued vs the 997). The BMW's though have shot up, E36 in particular, in large part due to it's race pedigree. This pays huge dividends long term (always has). But from here on out, all of these will slowly continue to climb You won't see them (E36 notwithstanding) take the meteoric ride that the '73-'98 911s did, but it will still be there. What's more, the worst cars will continue to fall of the grid, which naturally brings the values of the worthwhile ones, on a steady incline.

[A1 A2 German]

the TT RS still has em, if you like cutting hair.

[TwoSnelz]

Lol the bagels

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[VR6Bomber]

This is exactly why we've seen values on 1990s German sporty cars rise. They're the only cars to offer a truly analog mechanical driving experience while also offering turnkey driving. This makes them truly approachable to even the most mild enthusiast while still offering something for the most hardcore enthusiast. The B5 S4, E36 and E46 M3, the 996 - all of these have seen values rise to irrational levels (IMO) because of this pure driving & easy ownership combo.

Isn't there always a trend/formula where cars that are between 20-30 years old start to really increase in value?

Supposed to be based on the fact that 40 year olds can now actually afford the cars they lusted on as teenagers... or something?


Nissan 240 & 300z
Porsche 944 & 928
Toyota SR5 pickup
Supras
Eclipse and Talon
Grand Nationals

If you can name it, it has probably increased significantly in price.