Bad Lifter? Now what..

[DaPlatypus]

Hey guys. My 2010 Avant with 155k has seemed to develop what sounds like a lifter tap over the past 2 years that wasn't bad at first, but is now becoming pretty noticeable. Using a screw driver to my ear, I listened to the top end. All the valves have a sweet "tick tick tick" until I hovered over the forward-most driver's side set of valves, and there is a clear "slap slap slap". This is exactly what I am hearing when the car is started cold. As the car warms up, it does go away and is 'just' noticeable after ~ 5 minutes of driving. This winter it seems to be becoming well worse when cold and now I'm starting to weigh out my options here. I don't know much about these hydraulic lifters.. If it is truly what I expect, can these fail / cause damage to additional components on the top end if not addressed? Or is this simply a noise that may come with slightly degraded performance? I was considering letting the car go, but recently changed up my job and don't commute as far. I was hoping to keep this car for another few years. Does anyone have a ballpark estimate on a lifter replacement assuming no other damage?

[Theiceman]

sounds more like the cam adjuster to me ... go look at the maracas thread lol..

[StuckAntichris]

Here are all of the part numbers and quantities you will need for just one cylinder's intake valves:

Cam Girdle Bolt, N10554005, 22, $2
Lifter, 022109423D, 2, $5.49
Rocker, 06E109417P, 2, $12
Sealant, D154103A1, 1, $8
Vacuum Pump Gasket, 06H103121J, 1, $9
Exhaust Cam Bolt, N10572403, 1, $1.50

I would strongly recommend the vacuum rebuild kit from RKX HERE
The pump is a pretty common leak point and you already have to remove it for this job so why not.

By my calculations you're at 128ish in part not counting labor.

You will have to remove the cam and mess with timing chains so the labor cost could go through the roof but I can't see it taking a decent tech more than about 5 hours. Which is about 600ish depending on where you go.

So on the high end I would not expect more than $1000 paying someone to do it and only fixing the one cylinder.

Hope this helps!

[Theiceman]

Here are all of the part numbers and quantities you will need for just one cylinder's intake valves:

Cam Girdle Bolt, N10554005, 22, $2
Lifter, 022109423D, 2, $5.49
Rocker, 06E109417P, 2, $12
Sealant, D154103A1, 1, $8
Vacuum Pump Gasket, 06H103121J, 1, $9
Exhaust Cam Bolt, N10572403, 1, $1.50

I would strongly recommend the vacuum rebuild kit from RKX HERE
The pump is a pretty common leak point and you already have to remove it for this job so why not.

By my calculations you're at 128ish in part not counting labor.

You will have to remove the cam and mess with timing chains so the labor cost could go through the roof but I can't see it taking a decent tech more than about 5 hours. Which is about 600ish depending on where you go.

So on the high end I would not expect more than $1000 paying someone to do it and only fixing the one cylinder.

Hope this helps!

i dont understand this post . is it maybe mis-posted in the wrong place.. ?

[StuckAntichris]

That is a parts list for taking the cam girdle off, removing the cam and replacing the 2 intake lifters and rockers on cylinder 1.

That being said, it is possible that the adjuster has gone bad but I would think there would be codes and rough running associated with that right?

[Theiceman]

That is a parts list for taking the cam girdle off, removing the cam and replacing the 2 intake lifters and rockers on cylinder 1.

That being said, it is possible that the adjuster has gone bad but I would think there would be codes and rough running associated with that right?

oh now i understand .. my apologies.

i think its his cam personally . so costs would be the same.. plus the cost of the cam .. but wouldn't all the front have to come off to redo the cam timing ? lower timing cover etc to reset the tensioner and redo timing ? i wonder how RPM did it ?

if it had been a lifter at the back i might have tried tilting it , but being at the front of the engine he is pretty well screwed.


we have had 2 cam adjusters go in the last little while ...and everything happens in 3s ;)

[DaPlatypus]

sounds more like the cam adjuster to me ... go look at the maracas thread lol..

I read that thread a few days back, crazy lol. I have no codes and the car runs great. I'll check phase angle when I get home. Timing was replaced last year by a great shop, adjuster wasn't touched.

Thanks for the breakdown StuckAntichris! Not as bad as i expected.

[DaPlatypus]

oh now i understand .. my apologies.

i think its his cam personally . so costs would be the same.. plus the cost of the cam .. but wouldn't all the front have to come off to redo the cam timing ? lower timing cover etc to reset the tensioner and redo timing ? i wonder how RPM did it ?

if it had been a lifter at the back i might have tried tilting it , but being at the front of the engine he is pretty well screwed.


we have had 2 cam adjusters go in the last little while ...and everything happens in 3s ;)

Is there anything I can do on my end to verify the state of the adjuster? Or does that require disassembly + inspection. If the latter, sounds like I'll need to make an appt.

[Theiceman]

Is there anything I can do on my end to verify the state of the adjuster? Or does that require disassembly + inspection. If the latter, sounds like I'll need to make an appt.

usually there is a code or pending code for timing ... so may not be it .. but you said drivers at the front of the engine so got me thinking that area.

take a look at the thread close to this one for timing issues. you could always just leave it and see what happens.. but sounds expensive either way

[beatsageo]

usually there is a code or pending code for timing ... so may not be it .. but you said drivers at the front of the engine so got me thinking that area.

take a look at the thread close to this one for timing issues. you could always just leave it and see what happens.. but sounds expensive either way

If you do have a collapsed lifter you will not get any codes but just excessive valvetrain noise due to the excessive lash between the valve and tappet. You cant really get a measurement since its a dynamic adjustment. Since the lifters are hydraulic you want to make sure you have the correct weight oil. Another concern could be poor oil pressure to the head, but you say it goes away when warm so I would guess excessive tappet clearance. Your going to wan to deal with it sooner than later as all the extra vibration is not good for the roller bearings. Your going to have to call and get quotes it varies so much but I bet at least $2k to do all 4 cylinders which you should do, parts are the cheap part and its not much more time at all to do 1 vs 4.

[MongoMcG]

...but wouldn't all the front have to come off to redo the cam timing? lower timing cover etc to reset the tensioner and redo timing ? i wonder how RPM did it ?

You can remove the cams, roller rockers and lifters without removing the lower cover. Removing the timing chain from the cams (and leaving the lower cover in place) is covered in FSM, Servicing – 4-Cylinder 1.8L; 2.0L 4V TFSI Engine (EA 888 Generation II), Section 2.4 Camshaft Timing Chain, Removing from Camshafts.

[RPMtech147]

You can remove the cams, roller rockers and lifters without removing the lower cover. Removing the timing chain from the cams (and leaving the lower cover in place) is covered in FSM, Servicing – 4-Cylinder 1.8L; 2.0L 4V TFSI Engine (EA 888 Generation II), Section 2.4 Camshaft Timing Chain, Removing from Camshafts.

Have you ever successfully been able to get the tensioner locked back using the factory method? I've tried, a few times. I can't get my head between the core support to see into the hole and grab the the tiny lock-ring. Tried with a helper and with a mirror looking into the inspection hole while prying off my homemade version of the special tool you bolt to the head. All attempts made in service position.

Maybe I'll just buy the real tool if it saves that much time....I didn't realize it was only $70, and available.

I Just bought the special timing tools for 997 Porsche Turbo engines. I'll never recoup what those cost, lol

[Theiceman]

that's what I was thinking too.. no way you can do this unless you can lock the tensioner

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[Theiceman]

did you do it ?

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[Theiceman]

You can remove the cams, roller rockers and lifters without removing the lower cover. Removing the timing chain from the cams (and leaving the lower cover in place) is covered in FSM, Servicing – 4-Cylinder 1.8L; 2.0L 4V TFSI Engine (EA 888 Generation II), Section 2.4 Camshaft Timing Chain, Removing from Camshafts.

sorry no reference in my other post .
have you actually done this ? how did it go ?


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[MongoMcG]

I just finished doing upper valvetrain work with the head still on the engine. I was able to get the chain off of the cams and complete the work with the lower cover still installed without issue. For repairs where the crankshaft is not moved after disassembly, such as cam, lifter or rocker arm replacement, (as long as the crank doesn't move) everything should be peachy and this is not a tough job.

However, if the crank must be rotated in this setup (valve spring work for example), be outrageously cautious. The timing chain remains engaged with the crankshaft gear in this situation. If you rotate the crank you will spin the chain, and since you can't see what's behind the lower cover, you won't know which link is on the marked tooth of the crank gear. I'm silly, so I did it. I won't explain how for fear that someone else might actually try it. I will say I turned the motor by hand a lot and often with less than optimal tension on the chain. If you are needing to turn the crank after disassembly, it is highly recommended to remove the lower timing cover.

I'm waiting for lifters to be delivered, and once the valve cover is buttoned up I will hand crank the engine a couple of times to (hopefully not) reveal shifting or skipping behind the lower cover that might cause interference issues. If there is an interference problem then the lower cover needs to come off to make everything right.

I am waiting to see how much it bugs me that I didn't actually see the correct chain link on the correct crank gear tooth. It could turn out to be Poe's Tell Tale Heart buried beneath the lower timing cover driving me mad until I see it.

2.0T trivia: timing chain links line up with the marks on the crankshaft and camshafts every 170 rotations of the crank shaft (that's 85 revolutions of the camshafts and 23 laps for the chain).

BTW, I pinned the tensioner through the peep hole. I did not use the VW tool that pushes the guide against the tensioner to close it (I don't have that tool). Instead, I reached into the peephole with an upholsterer's tack remover, which is like a miniature hammer claw on the end of a screwdriver. I was able to catch an edge on the guide (the one the tensioner pushes on) and gently and slowly pull it in to close the tensioner into its clipped position. At the same time I had small needle nose pliers in there to hold the little spring clip on the tensioner open, also plenty of light to see what's happening and a minimal amount of dexterity to make it happen. Once the tensioner is pulled into position the upholsterer's tack remover is held in place, the pliers are dropped and the locking clip is inserted. Admittedly I had it easy because the radiator and lock carrier are removed, and I have full access to the front of the engine.

[Theiceman]

that's a good post..
btw there is no need to know where the coloured links are . it certainly helps, but as long as you are at TDC via the mark on the damper or a dial indicator,. your 62 and 124 mm measurements will.tell you if you are good to go

glad to see somone was able to pin back that tensioner as it's a pain in the ass.


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