275 vs 285 tires

[VVG]

For those of you who have gone from the stock 275/30 to 285/30 tires, can you notice any difference in how they feel, steer, etc. (good or bad) or is there really no difference other than the cosmetics of a bigger tire? I am trying to figure out the final specs for an aftermarket wheel/tire package.

[Zombie5150]

I only put about 60 miles on my stock 275 Continentals before I switched to the 285 Michelins. Both great tires but I think the Michelins ride smoother. On smooth roads both were about the same noise level. On crappy patched roads the Michelins are slightly louder. Not enough to be an issue but I could tell there was a difference. I also think the Michelins grip a bit better too. Not sure the extra width has as much to do with it vs. completely different tires. I do think the 285’s look better, car looks more “squatty” if that makes sense. Overall I’m glad I made the switch to the 285’s. They are on Vossen HF-3’s (20x10et20).

[Ed99]

Has anyone tried running 295/25/20 tires in the rear? 275 in the rear looks too narrow for a RS product in my mind?

[VVG]

Has anyone tried running 295/25/20 tires in the rear? 275 in the rear looks too narrow for a RS product in my mind?

A staggered set-up generally is not good with most Audi models as they are very nose heavy and have a fairly even F/R toque split. It makes them even more prone to understeer. And how wide a tire appears and/or its actual contact patch is also influenced by rim width. 275 provides adequate grip at this power level in an AWD car that also has 275 in front. I think the OEM wheel is a little narrow however. Should be 9.5" or 10" IMO.

[kmarei]

A staggered set-up generally is not good with most Audi models as they are very nose heavy and have a fairly even F/R toque split. It makes them even more prone to understeer. And how wide a tire appears and/or its actual contact patch is also influenced by rim width. 275 provides adequate grip at this power level in an AWD car that also has 275 in front. I think the OEM wheel is a little narrow however. Should be 9.5" or 10" IMO.

I wish
I would love to put 285/30 tires
But the max width on 9" wide wheels is 275
And I already painted mine bronze, so don't want to replace them
The wheels that is, not the tires :)

[Ed99]

Time to buy some 20x10.5 front and rear and run 275/30 front and 285/30 in the rear would look really nice and more wide and aggressive. Audi RS is the only ones that come with narrow rear tires compared to Mercedes AMG and BMW M cars.

[Lensch09]

I'll be going 285s probably next year. I don't really see the benefit of swapping out my 275s until they wear out - Only 2.5k miles on them to date. I'm expecting them to last 12-15k.



-DL

[onemax03]

I only ran the stock 275’s a few weeks so couldn’t give you a feelings opinion. I will say that I am running 285 Michelins on 20x10.5 et 25 Vossen’s and they make the car look lowered. I’m on stock suspension but have been asked many times what I’m lowered on.

IMG_1691.jpg

[Ed99]

I'll be going 285s probably next year. I don't really see the benefit of swapping out my 275s until they wear out - Only 2.5k miles on them to date. I'm expecting them to last 12-15k.



-DL

Are you on lowering springs or coils? Stance looks perfect!!!

Do you have more pics?

[Lensch09]

Are you on lowering springs or coils? Stance looks perfect!!!

Do you have more pics?

ABT HAS.

And yes, lots of pics. I have a build thread here and on AW



-DL

[VVG]

Time to buy some 20x10.5 front and rear and run 275/30 front and 285/30 in the rear would look really nice and more wide and aggressive. Audi RS is the only ones that come with narrow rear tires compared to Mercedes AMG and BMW M cars.

Different weight distribution and different AWD systems. Both Merc and BMW have primarily RWD torque distribution, Audi RS models have a 40F/60R distribution as well as a heavier front weight distribution due to the location of the engine. Wider rear tires will increase your understeer in an Audi.

[pharmboy_rs5]

I have 20x10.5 et20 all around on my B9.5. Tires are 285/30-20, and lowered an inch. No rubbing or anything. E2D45982-2D06-404E-8086-D3758B8B9946.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[pharmboy_rs5]

I only ran the stock 275’s a few weeks so couldn’t give you a feelings opinion. I will say that I am running 285 Michelins on 20x10.5 et 25 Vossen’s and they make the car look lowered. I’m on stock suspension but have been asked many times what I’m lowered on.

IMG_1691.jpg

I have those exact same wheels that I'm trying to sell. Too bad we couldn't have linked up, could have saved you some dollars.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Ed99]

I have 20x10.5 et20 all around on my B9.5. Tires are 285/30-20, and lowered an inch. No rubbing or anything. E2D45982-2D06-404E-8086-D3758B8B9946.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

Nice so you are running 10.5 20et front and rear with 285/30/20? I wonder if 295/25/20 would fit? Do you have more pics of your ride you can share with us?

[Lensch09]

Im' still running 275s on mine - BCForged RZ21 in 20X10" - ET23

I currently have a 5mm spacer on the fronts and a 10mm spacer on the rears to get the stance right. Also lowered ~1" on ABT HAS.

Once I jump up to 285s, we'll see if I need to switch up the spacer setup. We'll see.

-DL

[Ed99]

Im' still running 275s on mine - BCForged RZ21 in 20X10" - ET23

I currently have a 5mm spacer on the fronts and a 10mm spacer on the rears to get the stance right. Also lowered ~1" on ABT HAS.

Once I jump up to 285s, we'll see if I need to switch up the spacer setup. We'll see.

-DL

Keep us posted and can't wait to see what the fitment will be like. Have you ever considered 295/25/20 in the rear? That might be able to clear I have a feeling.

[Lensch09]

Keep us posted and can't wait to see what the fitment will be like. Have you ever considered 295/25/20 in the rear? That might be able to clear I have a feeling.

I don't think so - Don't want to run a staggered setup - Not a great idea on Quattro.

-DL

[Zombie5150]

Here's my profile (Vossen 20x10et20 with Michelin 285/30/20). For info, the front wheels are slightly turned to the right so it doesn't appear flush.

[onemax03]

I have those exact same wheels that I'm trying to sell. Too bad we couldn't have linked up, could have saved you some dollars.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

Got these a year an a half ago, although that would’ve been nice. PIA to clean so I may have gone another route beforehand. HF-3’s maybe…

[Lensch09]

She thick

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.aud...3e528ef444.jpg

[SpeedyG]

I am running 285/30/20 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S on my RS5 and have not had any issues. Then again Michelin Pilots typically run a little more narrow than other tires.

[Dan99]

Time to buy some 20x10.5 front and rear and run 275/30 front and 285/30 in the rear would look really nice and more wide and aggressive. Audi RS is the only ones that come with narrow rear tires compared to Mercedes AMG and BMW M cars.

Comparing Michelin PS4S tires, the tread width on the RS5 is exactly the same as the MB C63 AMG, and only 0.2 inches less than the new M3 with xDrive. Audi uses 275/30ZR20 and they have a tread width of 9.8 inches. The AMG C63 uses 285/30ZR19 in the rear, which also has a tread width of 9.8 inches. The MB tires just look wider because they are only 19 inch wheels and the car uses staggered sizes front/rear. Likewise, the M3 uses 285/30ZR20 in the rear, which have a tread width of 10.0 inches.

So, your concerns appear to be cosmetic. Audi's tires are exactly the same width as the C63 AMG and only 0.2 inches more narrow than the M3 xDrive.

[Militant-Grunt]

I am running 285/30/20 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S on my RS5 and have not had any issues. Then again Michelin Pilots typically run a little more narrow than other tires.

Hey, are you running them on stock wheels? I wanted to throw on some michelin cup 2's for the summer, but they do not come in a 275/30.

[VVG]

Hey, are you running them on stock wheels? I wanted to throw on some michelin cup 2's for the summer, but they do not come in a 275/30.

I do not recommend Cup 2 if you are going to encounter wet roads. They came stock on my Porsche Spyder and I changed them to Pilot Sport 4S when they were due to be replaced. The Cup 2 are amazing on dry roads and on a dry track, but even the slightest amount of moisture on the roads made them feel very unpredictable. And if there is any amount of standing water, you will be driving 30mph with your hazard lights on.

[pwdrskr]

A little late to the party here (at least this thread, anyway) but thought I'd add my two cents.

The 275/30s will look a bit stretched depending on the wheel you decided to put them on. I used to have them on Vorsteiner V-FF 104 20x10 back when I first got the RS5. The stretched look have never really appealed to me. So I decided to go with 285/30s and haven't looked back. The Vorsteriners were et30 offset and the arms hit the front brake calipers. So I used 7mm spacers to bring them out...arms cleared the calipers by ~2mm. That was good enough for me.

Recently, however, the itch for change got to the point I could help myself...I gave in and got a new set of Vossen EVO-1R 20x10 wheels, with an et20 offset after much hand wringing and approximation using the prior Vorsteiner wheel set and 10mm spacers to see what it would look like and more importantly, would there be any rubbing. I'd been running Michelin 285/30 all season A/S4 tires. These Michelins have a very vertical side wall and squared off transition to the tread. The contact patch was nearly 11 inches (10.7" per Tire Rack)...and, yep, rubbing on the fronts.

But as I've already said, I went with he et20 offset. Rubbing was "solved" by switching tires to the Michelin PS4S summer tires. The sidewalls / transition is just less enough, 10" contact patch, to prevent rubbing.

My point is, be careful with what you decide to put on the car. Would suck to get it all only to find out there was significant rubbing.

[Militant-Grunt]

I do not recommend Cup 2 if you are going to encounter wet roads. They came stock on my Porsche Spyder and I changed them to Pilot Sport 4S when they were due to be replaced. The Cup 2 are amazing on dry roads and on a dry track, but even the slightest amount of moisture on the roads made them feel very unpredictable. And if there is any amount of standing water, you will be driving 30mph with your hazard lights on.

I doubt this is much of an issue on a RS5, I used to run much more aggressive extreme summer performance tires with no issues on my other Audis.

[Dan99]

I doubt this is much of an issue on a RS5, I used to run much more aggressive extreme summer performance tires with no issues on my other Audis.

This issue with Cup 2 tires is rain, not the type of car.

[Militant-Grunt]

This issue with Cup 2 tires is rain, not the type of car.

As in, I used to run dunlop direzza z3's and had no issues in the rain, and that is a 200AA extreme autocross tire. As long as you're sensible in the rain, they are fine. If its a torrential downpour, yes I would agree that they are insufficient, but in all other cases more than manageable.

[Dan99]

As in, I used to run dunlop direzza z3's and had no issues in the rain, and that is a 200AA extreme autocross tire. As long as you're sensible in the rain, they are fine. If its a torrential downpour, yes I would agree that they are insufficient, but in all other cases more than manageable.

I think the practicality of this type of tire depends on the climate where you live (wet/dry), and how you use your car. This is what Tire Rack has to say about the Dunlop Direzza Z3 and wet roads:

"Tuned for maximum performance in warm, dry and damp conditions,... The two main, circumferential grooves allow water to flow through the footprint to resist hydroplaning, but heavy rain and standing water may still present challenges to longitudinal and lateral hydroplaning resistance, so drivers should take care and drive cautiously at reduced speeds in these conditions."

I suspect the same is also true for any other tire that is track-focused, such as Michelin's Cup 2 tires. So, just be careful out there if your car is a daily driver and you live in a wet climate.

[VVG]

I think the practicality of this type of tire depends on the climate where you live (wet/dry), and how you use your car. This is what Tire Rack has to say about the Dunlop Direzza Z3 and wet roads:

"Tuned for maximum performance in warm, dry and damp conditions,... The two main, circumferential grooves allow water to flow through the footprint to resist hydroplaning, but heavy rain and standing water may still present challenges to longitudinal and lateral hydroplaning resistance, so drivers should take care and drive cautiously at reduced speeds in these conditions."

I suspect the same is also true for any other tire that is track-focused, such as Michelin's Cup 2 tires. So, just be careful out there if your car is a daily driver and you live in a wet climate.

I think for the RS5, a tire like the Michelin PS4S, or the equivalent, will be much better suited for how this car is driven. I doubt many of these cars really see any meaningful track time. In going from PSC2 to PS4S, even on my Spyder, I can not tell one bit of difference in grip or steering responsiveness even with very spirited road driving, but the security and stability in wet conditions is WAY better with the PS4S. One could argue that Quattro adds a layer of safety, but I still don't think anyone is really going to push the limits of PS4S on the street enough to need going to a Cup 2 or other such tire.

[Dan99]

I think for the RS5, a tire like the Michelin PS4S, or the equivalent, will be much better suited for how this car is driven. I doubt many of these cars really see any meaningful track time. In going from PSC2 to PS4S, even on my Spyder, I can not tell one bit of difference in grip or steering responsiveness even with very spirited road driving, but the security and stability in wet conditions is WAY better with the PS4S. One could argue that Quattro adds a layer of safety, but I still don't think anyone is really going to push the limits of PS4S on the street enough to need going to a Cup 2 or other such tire.

I agree that the PS4S is better for a daily driver. They were designed for street and track duty, they wear longer and perform much better on wet roads than tires like the Cup 2. This is the PS4S:


mi_pilot_sport_4s_full.jpg


Cup 2 and similar tires, are typically designated as Streetable Track and Competition. Look at the tread pattern below. You can see why the Cup 2 would be better on the track, but you an also see why you would not want to get caught with them on a wet road or track:

mi_pilot_sport_cup_2_r_zp_full.jpg

I do track my RS5 SB a couple times per year with the PS4S and they work just fine, even in the rain. In addition, I have been on the track with my PA4 winter tires in 40-50 degree weather and they did surprisingly well. I would only go with Cup 2 tires, or something similar, if I had enough track experience to indicate tires were the weak link in my ability to get around the track. Unless someone has taken performance driving classes, and spent a lot of time on the track, the limiting factor is likely to be the driver, not the tires. They should spend some of that extra Cup 2 money on a driving class, and log some track time before deciding the Cup 2 level of tire is needed. Or not, if they just want to look high performance on sunny days.

[Dan99]

Hey, are you running them on stock wheels? I wanted to throw on some michelin cup 2's for the summer, but they do not come in a 275/30.

They do come in 275/30, and with the R-compound, but they are not a good choice for a daily driver. See my post above for more info on this.

TireRackCup2.jpg

[Dan99]

Hey, are you running them on stock wheels? I wanted to throw on some michelin cup 2's for the summer, but they do not come in a 275/30.

Here is a comparison of Michelin's PS4S and cup 2 tires. There are graphs that show the relative performance differences in a number of categories:

https://toptirereview.com/michelin-p...t-sport-cup-2/

[a4 4snow]

Here is a comparison of Michelin's PS4S and cup 2 tires. There are graphs that show the relative performance differences in a number of categories:

https://toptirereview.com/michelin-p...t-sport-cup-2/

What’s more interesting is the fact that not all PS4S are created equal. The 285/30/20 comes in 2 flavors a star spec and the normal one. Never really knew the difference till I saw this video. This brings the PS4S even closer to the Cup 2 with more usability.

https://youtu.be/COA630Juf_U


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Dan99]

What’s more interesting is the fact that not all PS4S are created equal. The 285/30/20 comes in 2 flavors a star spec and the normal one. Never really knew the difference till I saw this video. This brings the PS4S even closer to the Cup 2 with more usability.

https://youtu.be/COA630Juf_U

This was a surprise to me too, and it makes me curious about how the BMW version of the PS4S would change the handling of the RS5. Apparently the M3 understeers with the standard PS4S but does not with the BMW version of that tire. Watch the video to see why. Unfortunately, the BMW version only comes in 285 width, which requires a different wheel for the RS5, so it's not as simple as just buying the BMW version of the tire.

[VVG]

This was a surprise to me too, and it makes me curious about how the BMW version of the PS4S would change the handling of the RS5. Apparently the M3 understeers with the standard PS4S but does not with the BMW version of that tire. Watch the video to see why. Unfortunately, the BMW version only comes in 285 width, which requires a different wheel for the RS5, so it's not as simple as just buying the BMW version of the tire.

You have to really be pushing it on a track to see this. That's the thing.....so many reviews and comparisons are with these cars driven at the limit on a track, and that just isn't how these cars will really be used. Even if you are an occasional track rat, it is unlikely that you will be able to push an M3 to the limit enough to really feel it understeer. If you are a hardcore track junkie, you won't be tracking a stock M3. When one looks for the optimal set-up for their car, it should be based on how and where the car will actually be driven.

[Dan99]

You have to really be pushing it on a track to see this. That's the thing.....so many reviews and comparisons are with these cars driven at the limit on a track, and that just isn't how these cars will really be used...

I agree. I have been on the track with a lot of M3/4/5s and it is rare to find a BMW driver that has enough skill or confidence to even keep up with a stock B9 RS5 in the corners, let alone go faster. It's certainly possible, and I'm sure a lot of club racers and track junkies can, but most BMW drivers that I encounter on the track don't operate at that level. They bought a fast car, but don't know how to get the most from it.

Still, we all look at reviews and, collectively, all reviewers prefer the BMW on the track because it does not understeer. I don't know about you, but I attributed that to chassis design and weight distribution, not tires. But, this review says that the M3 Competition xDrive understeers with standard PS4s and does not with BMW's oem version of the PS4S. So, apparently, the tires have a role in this.

The video does a nice job of describing the difference between the two versions of the PS4S, and explaining why they are so different. This includes things like different rubber compounds and a different structure to the steel belts. Because of this, I would consider purchasing the BMW's oem version of the PS4S next for my RS5, if it was available in the correct size.

...Even if you are an occasional track rat, it is unlikely that you will be able to push an M3 to the limit enough to really feel it understeer.

That's kinda my point. Apparently it does not understeer with the oem BMW version of the PS4S. The real test would be to put the standard PS4S on an M3 and see what it does. As it turns out, the reviewer did this and found the car to be less stable and it understeered with the standard PS4S.

When one looks for the optimal set-up for their car, it should be based on how and where the car will actually be driven.

Agreed.

Finally, I would like to say that my interest in this topic has nothing to do with BMW vs Audi. This is about comparing two different versions of the "same" tire. The video reviewer just happened to use an M3 Competition xDrive. I am left wondering how the BMW version of the PS4S would affect the handling of an RS5.

[KOSTIC]

Here you guys are all talking about tires and I just want to get my car. lol


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Dan99]

Here you guys are all talking about tires and I just want to get my car. lol


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

Well, the bmw version of the ps4s tires is available in 285. And the thread is about 275 vs 285.

Sent from my SM-S901U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[VVG]

Well, the bmw version of the ps4s tires is available in 285. And the thread is about 275 vs 285.

Sent from my SM-S901U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

And quite a few people have gone to aftermarket wheels with 285 tires, so there is something to be said for possibly ordering these. Unfortunately, there is no real way to know this unless you happen, by chance, to stumble across the info, like this thread. Who would really think that the same tire, in the same size, is constructed differently.