Which Tune to Go With

[miken12]

I’m picking up my 2023 RS7 this week (after an 8 month wait). I’m planning on doing an ECU tune. Which one would you guys go with? Right now I’m leaning towards APR or Unitronic…I can’t find as many user reviews on the VF. Thanks for the help.

[OneFastBMW]

I would highly recommend APR Plus tune for the warranty. The performance is very good as well.

[F10TT]

I was running an APR Stage 1 with an APR intake from September until last week.

I'm running a Unitronic Stage 2 now. The APR is much more punchy down low, but the Unitronic has incredible linear power delivery across the band. I'm sure their stage 1 is the same. Uni has been an EXCELLENT company to deal with as well.

[Ace22]

I went with Uni stage 1+, mainly for the ease of tuning at home. I haven’t bought into the APR warranty thing, as I have heard nightmares in actually using it…seems just like a “peace of mind” gimmick that is hard to collect on.

[carguyshu]

Look into jb4. Can remove undetected in the event you need warranty work

[rexus300]

I have the unitronic stage1+ tuning and absolutely love it. Its easy to plug in and flash and revert it at home with the uniconnect cable that you can get. That way you can reflash it to stock before taking in for service etc. The torque and power delivery is much more responsive and harder than the stock especially in RS mode. MPG is slightly better and the rev limiter is removed to allow it to rev up to 5k. I didnt get APR because it was less power for the stage 1 at 93k then the unitronic stage 1 + and the warranty thing they offer wasnt convincing. Also didnt want to drive out to the installer to revert reflash etc before taking my car in to dealer. Its just easier doing it at home.

[DeputyDog95]

Also didnt want to drive out to the installer to revert reflash etc before taking my car in to dealer. Its just easier doing it at home.

If they look hard enough, can't the dealer see that it's been flashed and then flashed back to stock outside of the factory updates? I imagine they wouldn't do it for an oil change or something comparable, but if you had a engine or transmission failure, wouldn't that prompt them to look a little deeper?

[Jimminez@Nemesis]

If they look hard enough, can't the dealer see that it's been flashed and then flashed back to stock outside of the factory updates? I imagine they wouldn't do it for an oil change or something comparable, but if you had a engine or transmission failure, wouldn't that prompt them to look a little deeper?

Yes. They can tell that at some point the vehicle's settings didn't match the expected and would get flagged with "TD1 - inactive" which means believed to have been tuned but tune not present at the time of scan.

[DeputyDog95]

Yes. They can tell that at some point the vehicle's settings didn't match the expected and would get flagged with "TD1 - inactive" which means believed to have been tuned but tune not present at the time of scan.

The jig is up at that point

[rexus300]

True. I just want to be on the safe side for general maintenance such as oil change, software updates etc. My service manager knows I did the tune but says they wont scan it unless theres an issue with engine, transmission etc. Until then fingers crossed!

[miken12]

Yes. They can tell that at some point the vehicle's settings didn't match the expected and would get flagged with "TD1 - inactive" which means believed to have been tuned but tune not present at the time of scan.

Are you allowed to say which tune you think is the best?

[Jimminez@Nemesis]

Are you allowed to say which tune you think is the best?

It would be biased as of the ones you mentioned, we only provide Unitronic. Unitronic you can tune from home, if you purchase a Uniconnect Cable (windows laptop is needed). They have Stage 1, Stage 1+, and recently released Stage 2, so you have some options.

For APR, I believe you will need to find a local APR dealer to have the tune installed and for VF Engineering, I believe you need to ship them your ECU.

I know I didn't answer your question as far as which is best. The each have their unique benefits and you'd have to see which suit your needs the most. Can't say you'd be disappointed with any option you go with.

[The_Capt]

IE (Integrated Engineering) has an amazing stage 1 tune (and intake) for the RS6. I’ve been running for several months and also supremely impressed with its linear power delivery.

You can also tune/detune from home via OBD cable to windows laptop and their tune also allows for E85 blend. Tons of flexibility.


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[yang88she]

I have been very happy with my Stage 1 APR tune, but since adding downpipes (APR doesn't offer a stage 2), I've been considering unitronic or IE. So if you plan on adding catted or uncatted downpipes, do NOT consider APR

[nate1031]

IE (Integrated Engineering) has an amazing stage 1 tune (and intake) for the RS6. I’ve been running for several months and also supremely impressed with its linear power delivery.

You can also tune/detune from home via OBD cable to windows laptop and their tune also allows for E85 blend. Tons of flexibility.


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Still happy with it? How are the burbles? I LOVE the burbles in stock sport mode.

[kjcncsu]

I've been running the IE Stage 1 93 tune for a few months and am very happy. I've used APR several times in the past, and their tunes are great, but having to go to a dealer and pay someone to flash gets old. I went with IE for the at home flashing and features like defaulting to the start/stop turned off, E85 support, and the fact that it comes with a TCU tune. I haven't been on a dyno or done a quarter mile pull yet, but the gains are very noticeable and the amount of torque makes this a blast to drive with short pulls. Best 0-60 I've clocked is a 2.89, and that was full weight on stock tires. The LC is really dialed in and eliminated the bog I had with whatever tune the previous owner had on it. It also still drives extremely smoothly and stock like when in comfort, but has such better throttle mapping especially when in RS mode.

Although I've been really happy with the tune, I've been considering trying out the Uni tune. I have uni downpipes, wagner ICs, and an intake so I can go straight to the Uni stage 2 tune which IE doesn't have. Uni's Stage 2 advertises pretty much the same HP/TQ figures as the IE Stage 1 E85. I hate blending fuel, so I'll probably never use the IE E40

[The_Capt]

Still happy with it? How are the burbles? I LOVE the burbles in stock sport mode.

Yezzir still love it. The burbles aren’t annoying and only on downshifts in S.


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[nate1031]

I've been running the IE Stage 1 93 tune for a few months and am very happy. I've used APR several times in the past, and their tunes are great, but having to go to a dealer and pay someone to flash gets old. I went with IE for the at home flashing and features like defaulting to the start/stop turned off, E85 support, and the fact that it comes with a TCU tune. I haven't been on a dyno or done a quarter mile pull yet, but the gains are very noticeable and the amount of torque makes this a blast to drive with short pulls. Best 0-60 I've clocked is a 2.89, and that was full weight on stock tires. The LC is really dialed in and eliminated the bog I had with whatever tune the previous owner had on it. It also still drives extremely smoothly and stock like when in comfort, but has such better throttle mapping especially when in RS mode.

Although I've been really happy with the tune, I've been considering trying out the Uni tune. I have uni downpipes, wagner ICs, and an intake so I can go straight to the Uni stage 2 tune which IE doesn't have. Uni's Stage 2 advertises pretty much the same HP/TQ figures as the IE Stage 1 E85. I hate blending fuel, so I'll probably never use the IE E40

This is great feedback. I really appreciate it. I've been slowly contemplating which route to go. I'm reluctant to void the warranty but ultimately think I'll end up tuning it. I mainly considered APR+ and IE since they're local to me. I've been attracted to IE for the reasons you mention too. TCU tune I'm sure makes a lot of difference with the lag.

[nate1031]

Yezzir still love it. The burbles aren’t annoying and only on downshifts in S.


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Great to hear! Only downshifts or still also when you let the throttle off at higher RPM's?

[CanuckRS]

Does Unitronic modify the TCU as well with their software update?

[The_Capt]

Great to hear! Only downshifts or still also when you let the throttle off at higher RPM's?

Oh yea forgot about throttle off burbles, again though only when in S


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[kjcncsu]

Does Unitronic modify the TCU as well with their software update?

They only have one listed for their stage 3.

[The_Capt]

They only have one listed for their stage 3.

I run IE stage 1 ecu tune and their TCU tune.


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[nate1031]

I run IE stage 1 ecu tune and their TCU tune.


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Would you say the TCU tune helps with the laggy response at low RPMs?

[The_Capt]

Would you say the TCU tune helps with the laggy response at low RPMs?

Unfortunately not, it’s more related to better, safer LC due to the increased hp/tq outputs. I think it holds gears longer too when adapting to driving style but pretty sure IE has a write up on their TCU tune.


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[S4Izzy]

I'm in the same boat... have my car prepared for a tune now with the intake, exhaust, and intercoolers. I'm leaning towards the Unitronic tune with their downpipes, but will probably wait for the car to cross the 10k mile threshold.

[burbletune]

i have 2022 rs6

Racechip GTS
Eventuri intake
CSF intercoolers
full MillTek Exhaust / stock downpipes

18k miles and the car is running very good

i had JB4 tune i removed it to get warranty work done and no TD1 flag

[two+2]

i have 2022 rs6

Racechip GTS
Eventuri intake
CSF intercoolers
full MillTek Exhaust / stock downpipes

18k miles and the car is running very good

i had JB4 tune i removed it to get warranty work done and no TD1 flag

How does the Racechip compare to the JB4? Is the RaceChip easy to take on/off? Both are piggybacks correct?

[pwdrskr]

One more vote for APR Plus for the warranty/peace of mind benefits, FWIW. There will always be some risk that both Audi and APR deny coverage. However, I figured the APR warranty was worth it.

I can't help but add that choosing a piggy back tuning option is not protection from getting flagged TD1. Yes, the piggy back can be removed when taking the car in for general service/maintenance, "saving" the car from getting flagged. However, this isn't when it matters. Should the car fail in a way that causes the tech to do a deep scan, evidence of the piggy back will be discovered resulting in a TD1 flag anyway. It does no good to pull the piggy back system at all as the outcome will be the same, denied warranty coverage. The only difference is when the car gets flagged.

[carguyshu]

One more vote for APR Plus for the warranty/peace of mind benefits, FWIW. There will always be some risk that both Audi and APR deny coverage. However, I figured the APR warranty was worth it.

I can't help but add that choosing a piggy back tuning option is not protection from getting flagged TD1. Yes, the piggy back can be removed when taking the car in for general service/maintenance, "saving" the car from getting flagged. However, this isn't when it matters. Should the car fail in a way that causes the tech to do a deep scan, evidence of the piggy back will be discovered resulting in a TD1 flag anyway. It does no good to pull the piggy back system at all as the outcome will be the same, denied warranty coverage. The only difference is when the car gets flagged.

Explain how a “deep scan” (or even what that even means) would show anything when the entire point of the piggyback is to trick the factory ecu into seeing numbers that aren’t the real ones

[MtnRinger]

One more vote for APR Plus for the warranty/peace of mind benefits, FWIW. There will always be some risk that both Audi and APR deny coverage. However, I figured the APR warranty was worth it.

I can't help but add that choosing a piggy back tuning option is not protection from getting flagged TD1. Yes, the piggy back can be removed when taking the car in for general service/maintenance, "saving" the car from getting flagged. However, this isn't when it matters. Should the car fail in a way that causes the tech to do a deep scan, evidence of the piggy back will be discovered resulting in a TD1 flag anyway. It does no good to pull the piggy back system at all as the outcome will be the same, denied warranty coverage. The only difference is when the car gets flagged.

LOL. "Deep Scan" to find a removed piggy back ecu.

[CanuckRS]

This is the button the Audi tech presses to detect your uninstalled piggy.

[pwdrskr]

Perhaps my terminology is incorrect, however, there are other controllers/systems not connected to the piggy back connections that also log data. These other systems will log data inconsistent with "normal" engine performance. These inconsistencies will be visible should Audi have cause to investigate, such as when there is a catastrophic failure.

Under "normal" circumstances, such as during scheduled maintenance or unrelated warranty work, a removed a piggyback system won't be detectable and the car won't be flagged....until there is a problem that results in further investigation by Audi. At that point, the inconsistencies across all the vehicle's systems will be apparent and Audi will know something was done to alter engine performance. Other platforms even have a flag to describe the use of a piggyback. For instance, VWs have the "new" flag, TB1, defined as "suspected tuning with tuning box". No idea if Audi has a similar code.

"Modern Audi's have two flash counters. The 1st is partially accessible by tuners, but the 2nd is completely inaccessible/encrypted and increments at every use of an external device which alters/changes the state of the ECU. Audi keeps a record centrally of what the count number should be for each VIN (based on how many times it's been plugged into their systems), if the count displayed sits outside the number expected, then it goes into the first flash counter and looks for the TB1 and TD1 errors. When these are flagged warranties are usually rendered void.

These two flash counters serve two different purposes, one counts, one analyses. There is also another bit of the algorithm that analyses 'hardware' modification (tuning boxes and unidentified hardware that’s been plugged into the ECU) which produces a TXD code that is then added to the detection algorithm. It’s simple maths which will then flag the appropriate error (TD1, TG1, TE1, and TB1)."

Without doubt, it's much harder to find out if a piggyback system has been used. "Much harder" isn't impossible, however. Call it a "deep scan", call it something else, they are detectable, and their use will be found out if Audi goes looking. I'll bet manufacturers have gotten quite good at it, and at this point, Audi most surely knows what to look for if the need arises.

So, flame away, I stuck my neck out so I guess I asked for it...am still asking for it. In my defense, I'm only trying to help. I'd hate for someone to think they are "safe" only to find out later they're on the hook for repair costs they weren't anticipating.

[MtnRinger]

George labeled this "fake news x on vwvortex 4/30/20.
https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/td1...7984018/page-2

I've yet to see a single verified post of somebody being denied due to a "TB1" code.

[pwdrskr]

George labeled this "fake news x on vwvortex 4/30/20.
https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/td1...7984018/page-2

I've yet to see a single verified post of somebody being denied due to a "TB1" code.

Not sure what is being labeled "fake news". Is it that dealers can detect the former use of a piggyback system? Or, is warranty denial due to a determination that a piggyback system had been used the "fake news"? Not sure that the ability of a dealer to detect former use of a piggyback is in itself "fake news". Nor is the possibility that "TB1" is a code available to dealers to tag a car. I don't know, though I'll be asking my service advisor the next time one of our cars is in for service.

Now if someone falsely claims that they were themselves or someone they know were denied warranty coverage, that would be fake news.

I guess I'll add that there's a difference between detection and denial of warranty. Has nobody ever been denied warranty coverage due to former use of a piggyback system? I have no idea. Can the former presence of a piggyback system be detected? Seems like it can. Will it? No idea. Too many variables (dealerships, what part(s) failed, how was the car being driven, etc.) too know. After that, what the dealers do with the information...well, I'm sure it varies.

As to whether a TB1 flag is "real"...heck if I know, I must defer to others. If not, that is great!

My intent is solely to help other Audi enthusiasts make informed decisions about their car with full knowledge of the risks. And that is all I've tried to convey. Nothing more.

[MtnRinger]

George said the TB1 flag was fake news. Nobody's ever been tagged with one and no VWAG documents that anyone could lay their hands on mention the code.

[two+2]

No flames, this is a forum and any input/discussion is most appreciated IMO.

Thank you.

[carguyshu]

Burger tuning has stated repeatedly that there are ZERO known instances in which a car with a JB4 that’s been removed has been flagged or denied warranty coverage.

[OneFastBMW]

The ECU does keep long term fuel trims saved in it. I think that the only “proof” of a piggyback would be that the long term fuel trim is high. But this is only proof that the fuel trim was high. I think it would be a stretch for a dealer or VW to say “we know you had a piggy back because fuel trims are high and there is no other explanation of that”. They could look for physical evidence of a piggyback previously installed, but again this seems like a very big stretch and hard for a dealer/VAG to prove.

[pwdrskr]

A better measure of the effectiveness of removing a piggy back module to hide its use would be a car that failed in a way that Audi would deny warranty coverage should they know the car had been modified. For example, it would be informative to know if a turbo had blown (or some other related engine component/system) while a piggy back system was installed, then the piggy back module removed, and Audi repaired the car under factory warranty no questions asked.

That is a different scenario than a car not getting a flag during routine maintenance or warranty work on unrelated vehicle systems/parts. Not getting a flag ins’t necessarily proof that a piggy back is 100% undetectable after removal. Only that Audi hadn’t gone looking for evidence it was.