Injector Options for Big Turbo Builds (Flow Tested Data Inside)

[connor123me]

So basically I have not been able to find much concrete evidence as to what injectors flow what amount and what I should use for my EA888.2 BT build.
In this case I bought about 5 different sets, and sent them to get flow tested to actually find out.

This was originally posted on another site that has been useful to me but I'll post it here as well, maybe it will help someone in the future.

Also to pre-face this I am throwing a GTX2871R turbo on my 2012 Q5. (Don't wanna hear "SHOULD HAVE GOT THE 3.0 SUPERCHARGED!!!")

Below is the data I found.




0261500076 - Standard Injector Used on EA888.2 Motors (2009-2016 A4,Q5,A3 and others)

0261500645 - MK7 Golf R Injector that many people say to use when going big turbo. I was dis-satisfied and thought there must be better.

0261500609 - Audi RS3/TTRS Injector. This is where things start looking promising, significantly more flow than both the MK7R and Stock.


You'll notice the injector stroke and pulse length are different at each pressure. This is simply how they were tested under a regular Bosch HDEV 5.1 test plan.
Whats most important is the % difference at each test level between the different injectors.

I ordered 2 others, injectors for the RS7 motor (these are Continental injectors I found out after ordering so I wasn't going to try them because I heard drive current
is different), as well as Ford Focus RS Injectors. I have a strong feeling the Focus RS Injectors would flow even more than the RS3's, however the diameter of the solenoid
cylinder is larger than that of the Audi injectors which would require porting the injector opening to a larger size.

Hope this helps someone looking to run a big turbo in the future. This was expensive to do, so I hope someone can appreciate the free release of information, and maybe inspire others to do the same
for the sake of the tuner community.

[JLAllroad]

So basically I have not been able to find much concrete evidence as to what injectors flow what amount and what I should use for my EA888.2 BT build.
In this case I bought about 5 different sets, and sent them to get flow tested to actually find out.

This was originally posted on another site that has been useful to me but I'll post it here as well, maybe it will help someone in the future.

Also to pre-face this I am throwing a GTX2871R turbo on my 2012 Q5. (Don't wanna hear "SHOULD HAVE GOT THE 3.0 SUPERCHARGED!!!")

Below is the data I found.




0261500076 - Standard Injector Used on EA888.2 Motors (2009-2016 A4,Q5,A3 and others)

0261500645 - MK7 Golf R Injector that many people say to use when going big turbo. I was dis-satisfied and thought there must be better.

0261500609 - Audi RS3/TTRS Injector. This is where things start looking promising, significantly more flow than both the MK7R and Stock.


You'll notice the injector stroke and pulse length are different at each pressure. This is simply how they were tested under a regular Bosch HDEV 5.1 test plan.
Whats most important is the % difference at each test level between the different injectors.

I ordered 2 others, injectors for the RS7 motor (these are Continental injectors I found out after ordering so I wasn't going to try them because I heard drive current
is different), as well as Ford Focus RS Injectors. I have a strong feeling the Focus RS Injectors would flow even more than the RS3's, however the diameter of the solenoid
cylinder is larger than that of the Audi injectors which would require porting the injector opening to a larger size.

Hope this helps someone looking to run a big turbo in the future. This was expensive to do, so I hope someone can appreciate the free release of information, and maybe inspire others to do the same
for the sake of the tuner community.

None of these will support a big turbo.

What you also have to remember with the RS3 DI injectors is that the RS3 also has port injection and the fastest RS3’s are upgrading the port injectors.


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[fastboatster]

I wonder how these compare to 3.0T and 4.0T injectors as well as how the spray patterns match up. Would be good to shove some high flow aftermarket injectors for ea888 into 3.0T.

[connor123me]

None of these will support a big turbo.

What you also have to remember with the RS3 DI injectors is that the RS3 also has port injection and the fastest RS3’s are upgrading the port injectors.


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Do you have any evidence to backup your claim? I don't see why none of them would work. Have you ever done a BT build on the EA888 motor?
I am aware of the port injection on the RS3. That is totally irrelevant to the fact that the RS3 DI's are flowing 15% more than the stock A4 ones.

Seems like you're just here blowing steam. It's well documented that even the MK7R Injectors will do 420WHP which is easily 500CHP on a boss500 GTX2867R.

[connor123me]

I wonder how these compare to 3.0T and 4.0T injectors as well as how the spray patterns match up. Would be good to shove some high flow aftermarket injectors for ea888 into 3.0T.

From what I can gather (I have spent countless hours researching injectors, spending the $$$$ to buy numerous types and then flow test was a last ditch, however I still don't know everything) the 4.0t and 3.0t both use
Siemens ECU's with Continental Injectors. These engines (from my understanding) use no MAF sensor, which is why they don't have standard BOSCH MED17.xx ecus with Bosch HDEV Injectors.

Because of this drive current for the injectors is not the same. I have a set of 4.0t continental injectors, they are not quite the same design and the O ring is a larger diameter than the Bosch HDEV injectors so it will also not fit
in the same fuel rail.

So flow testing a Bosch Injector and trying to compare it to a Continental Injector is not going to be easy to do because the desired drive current and such is different for each. Beyond this, the 2 injector types are not interchangeable.
They simply won't fit.

Waiting for a Audi Dealership Worshiper with their stock A4 who takes it to the dealership for an oil change to explain to me some random off bullshit that they heard from an Audi Tech to tell me I'm wrong.

[apeck240]

If you're staying 93oct, r's or equivalent are fine, and can do low blend e a little, but will run out real quick. Mabos are the way if you're gonna run e

[JLAllroad]

If you're staying 93oct, r's or equivalent are fine, and can do low blend e a little, but will run out real quick. Mabos are the way if you're gonna run e

Agreed


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[apeck240]

Agreed


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Thank god, I was hoping a guy with a stock turbo and fueling that said the opposite an hour ago would validate my personal experience

[connor123me]

Thank god, I was hoping a guy with a stock turbo and fueling that said the opposite an hour ago would validate my personal experience

Shit you got me rolling laughing lmfao

I will just be running 93 but the motor I'm using I fully built forged rods pistons etc. In the future I may go with an even bigger turbo that's why I wanted bigger injectors. From what I have heard tuning the mabo's is a pain in the ass,
and very difficult to get cold starts right. At 150bar the MK7R flows ~5% more than stock, and the RS3 ~15% more than stock. I'm thinking this should give me easy headroom into the 550-600hp arena, and if I need more fuel past that I would just get a single port injector and an aftermarket fuel controller to run it. Tuning DI's that flow 40% more than stock is difficult and not something I personally want to do (I do my own tuning in WinOLS with KTAG for Read/Write).

Flink Films on Youtube has a nice build running the Mk7R injectors and hes sitting at about 420whp I think.

[fastboatster]

From what I can gather (I have spent countless hours researching injectors, spending the $$$$ to buy numerous types and then flow test was a last ditch, however I still don't know everything) the 4.0t and 3.0t both use
Siemens ECU's with Continental Injectors. These engines (from my understanding) use no MAF sensor, which is why they don't have standard BOSCH MED17.xx ecus with Bosch HDEV Injectors.

Because of this drive current for the injectors is not the same. I have a set of 4.0t continental injectors, they are not quite the same design and the O ring is a larger diameter than the Bosch HDEV injectors so it will also not fit
in the same fuel rail.

So flow testing a Bosch Injector and trying to compare it to a Continental Injector is not going to be easy to do because the desired drive current and such is different for each. Beyond this, the 2 injector types are not interchangeable.
They simply won't fit.

Waiting for a Audi Dealership Worshiper with their stock A4 who takes it to the dealership for an oil change to explain to me some random off bullshit that they heard from an Audi Tech to tell me I'm wrong.

4.0T does use MED17 ecu. I wonder where the electrical params can be found for the injectors, but anyways.

[apeck240]

Shit you got me rolling laughing lmfao

I will just be running 93 but the motor I'm using I fully built forged rods pistons etc. In the future I may go with an even bigger turbo that's why I wanted bigger injectors. From what I have heard tuning the mabo's is a pain in the ass,
and very difficult to get cold starts right. At 150bar the MK7R flows ~5% more than stock, and the RS3 ~15% more than stock. I'm thinking this should give me easy headroom into the 550-600hp arena, and if I need more fuel past that I would just get a single port injector and an aftermarket fuel controller to run it. Tuning DI's that flow 40% more than stock is difficult and not something I personally want to do (I do my own tuning in WinOLS with KTAG for Read/Write).

Flink Films on Youtube has a nice build running the Mk7R injectors and hes sitting at about 420whp I think.

550-600 with a boss 500 and pump gas? Good luck. For reference, I'm running that kit at 36-38psi, with e40 and meth and did 480whp. Even crank numbers, that's not happening

Cold starts with mabos and both pumps upgraded are perfect, but wpt is a fantastic tuner

[connor123me]

4.0T does use MED17 ecu. I wonder where the electrical params can be found for the injectors, but anyways.

I think you are correct. I remember seeing it somewhere so I combed through my damos and stock files are sure enough it looks like it uses the MED17.1.62

So only the supercharged 3.0t uses Simos. I would be interested in finding electrical params too. There *may* be somewhere in the ecu code that references things such as this, if I come across it while tuning for these larger injectors I will update this thread with it.

[connor123me]

550-600 with a boss 500 and pump gas? Good luck. For reference, I'm running that kit at 36-38psi, with e40 and meth and did 480whp. Even crank numbers, that's not happening

Cold starts with mabos and both pumps upgraded are perfect, but wpt is a fantastic tuner

No way I do not plan on 600 on a boss500 kit. I was just saying the RS3 injectors *may* have headroom to reach that. I'm also not running a boss kit, it's a custom setup I put together with a GTX2871r which flows a bit more than the 67r.
I'm looking to run around 500chp daily with what I'm doing, I have a cloned ecu I use for race weekends that I have things such as 2-step enabled on, I just swap between them at events, so I may use my second ECU for high boost and timing to hit 550-600chp if possible.

Are you using Mabotech Injectors? Also is that 38psi over standard air pressure or 38psi including 14psi background? A 2.6 bar tune seems rowdy as hell. How many g/s airflow are you seeing in logs?

[apeck240]

No way I do not plan on 600 on a boss500 kit. I was just saying the RS3 injectors *may* have headroom to reach that. I'm also not running a boss kit, it's a custom setup I put together with a GTX2871r which flows a bit more than the 67r.
I'm looking to run around 500chp daily with what I'm doing, I have a cloned ecu I use for race weekends that I have things such as 2-step enabled on, I just swap between them at events, so I may use my second ECU for high boost and timing to hit 550-600chp if possible.

Are you using Mabotech Injectors? Also is that 38psi over standard air pressure or 38psi including 14psi background? A 2.6 bar tune seems rowdy as hell. How many g/s airflow are you seeing in logs?

Yes mabos, yes actual boost over atmo, near 400gs. On pump I did mayyybe 400whp, you can't have much timing at all on 93, I think peak was 6-8ish degrees. Now with e and meth, 21ish, but like I said you'll need bigger than r's and the 2.5 inj really aren't too much bigger for being double the cost. Like I said, pump r's, e mabos.

My friend with a 3076 did similar power to me, with 110oct race gas cuz r's wouldn't support e40-50 at that power level

[bb-tt]

i am at 388 whp on 0261500246 (06L906036AJ) injectors can run e30 all day, when trying to run e40 the hpfp cant keep up with the fuel injectors. Have had bad luck with hpfp piston upgrades. Once i get a working upgraded hpfp will see how much the golf r's will support.




here is an e40 log u can see the hpfp struggling to keep up

[cybernet99]

Yes mabos, yes actual boost over atmo, near 400gs. On pump I did mayyybe 400whp, you can't have much timing at all on 93, I think peak was 6-8ish degrees. Now with e and meth, 21ish, but like I said you'll need bigger than r's and the 2.5 inj really aren't too much bigger for being double the cost. Like I said, pump r's, e mabos.

My friend with a 3076 did similar power to me, with 110oct race gas cuz r's wouldn't support e40-50 at that power level

I'm running Mabo's on my build, with pump gas last it was running. Timing was very low. But, they flow like crazy. I had them cleaned and flowed ... will have to find the results from the bench flow testing.

Here is the video of the Mabotech injectors being benched after cleaning. https://www.instagram.com/p/CLpSJEplj7-/

When the build comes back together in the spring, it will have the Mabo's for DI, plus the IE fuel rail with 89lb Siemens Deka port injectors to supplement with the SplitSecond controller to manage the secondary injectors. It will also have upgraded LPFP, HPFP with -8AN feed and -6AN return lines all of the way to and from the LPFP basket in the tank. I'll be running e85 or blended as well to bring timing into the game.

I'm running a BW EFR8474 1/05 a/r.

WPT Tuning will continue tuning in the spring to see what we can hit with this setup.

[connor123me]

I'm running Mabo's on my build, with pump gas last it was running. Timing was very low. But, they flow like crazy. I had them cleaned and flowed ... will have to find the results from the bench flow testing.

Here is the video of the Mabotech injectors being benched after cleaning. https://www.instagram.com/p/CLpSJEplj7-/

When the build comes back together in the spring, it will have the Mabo's for DI, plus the IE fuel rail with 89lb Siemens Deka port injectors to supplement with the SplitSecond controller to manage the secondary injectors. It will also have upgraded LPFP, HPFP with -8AN feed and -6AN return lines all of the way to and from the LPFP basket in the tank. I'll be running e85 or blended as well to bring timing into the game.

I'm running a BW EFR8474 1/05 a/r.

WPT Tuning will continue tuning in the spring to see what we can hit with this setup.

I've been watching your build for a while now, and every time I'm reminded of the detail, quality, parts of your build, and target horsepower my eyes begin to water. I can't wait to see it running.
If you can find the flow results that would be awesome to see!

[connor123me]

Yes mabos, yes actual boost over atmo, near 400gs. On pump I did mayyybe 400whp, you can't have much timing at all on 93, I think peak was 6-8ish degrees. Now with e and meth, 21ish, but like I said you'll need bigger than r's and the 2.5 inj really aren't too much bigger for being double the cost. Like I said, pump r's, e mabos.

My friend with a 3076 did similar power to me, with 110oct race gas cuz r's wouldn't support e40-50 at that power level

Wowowow thats alot of boost! And alot of airflow! Very interesting information for sure. So it sounds like I'll only NEED r's but since I already have a set of the RS3's I may as well use them, unless there's a good reason not to.
Would you be able to share a log from a pump gas tune? Would be helpful for me for aiming the tune for mine here shortly.

[apeck240]

Wowowow thats alot of boost! And alot of airflow! Very interesting information for sure. So it sounds like I'll only NEED r's but since I already have a set of the RS3's I may as well use them, unless there's a good reason not to.
Would you be able to share a log from a pump gas tune? Would be helpful for me for aiming the tune for mine here shortly.

What would you be looking for specifically. And you're gonna want e to get even near your goal, so I stand by my mabo suggestion, as far as flow, I can tell you I'm running a lowered hp pressure, 135 bar, just to get some inj duration because they flow so fuckin much. Do you want stock fuel system logs, or current (mabos, autotech piston, aem 340, 380cc meth). You're gonna hit the same problem I did if you're only running 93, the stock stuff held up quite a lot, by the time I did fueling mods I only gained like 5% power, but had a fuel system to make like double the power I could on 93. Then you'll be looking at ethanol, a bigger turbo, etc etc

[apeck240]

Current best, pretty much full send with what I have now20220606_163043.jpg

[connor123me]

What would you be looking for specifically. And you're gonna want e to get even near your goal, so I stand by my mabo suggestion, as far as flow, I can tell you I'm running a lowered hp pressure, 135 bar, just to get some inj duration because they flow so fuckin much. Do you want stock fuel system logs, or current (mabos, autotech piston, aem 340, 380cc meth). You're gonna hit the same problem I did if you're only running 93, the stock stuff held up quite a lot, by the time I did fueling mods I only gained like 5% power, but had a fuel system to make like double the power I could on 93. Then you'll be looking at ethanol, a bigger turbo, etc etc

Stock fueling on the boss500 would be a good start. I'm going to tune that first. I do have a 034 hpfp upgrade in though. I also do not want to run ethanol as it isn't practical for me to daily on it where I live. I ran methanol injection daily for the past year so that is something realistic for me. I buy about 50 gallons at a time. So logs from stock fuel system and a daily tune with the mabos would be excellent!

[connor123me]

Current best, pretty much full send with what I have now20220606_163043.jpg

WOW, you got any videos of this thing?

[apeck240]

Stock fueling on the boss500 would be a good start. I'm going to tune that first. I do have a 034 hpfp upgrade in though. I also do not want to run ethanol as it isn't practical for me to daily on it where I live. I ran methanol injection daily for the past year so that is something realistic for me. I buy about 50 gallons at a time. So logs from stock fuel system and a daily tune with the mabos would be excellent!

Stock fueling, last file before mabos I believe, you can see em struggling and running no fuckin timing on pumpstocklog.jpg

[connor123me]

Stock fueling, last file before mabos I believe, you can see em struggling and running no fuckin timing on pumpstocklog.jpg

Is there a way you can export it so it can be viewed in datazap? It's alot easier to read! 4.5 is not alot of timing for sure

[bb-tt]

WOW, you got any videos of this thing?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/7158...8555670518092/

- - - Updated - - -

[Mars2]

I'm on Mabo's also, after 37 revision of tune they now have perfect cold start with 100% E85. Feel like OEM on any percentage of throttle
Only thing MPG seams to go down with those. not easy to get fine spraying accuracy for light throttle when your injector flow like fire hose.

I thought I had trouble with those at one stage but in fact it was the inside gasket of the HPFP that was dead and my VIS got scratched from that.
Now with brand new HUCO HPFP (Huco = Hitachi Germany) and 034 Kit it's perfect.

[connor123me]

I'm on Mabo's also, after 37 revision of tune they now have perfect cold start with 100% E85. Feel like OEM on any percentage of throttle
Only thing MPG seams to go down with those. not easy to get fine spraying accuracy for light throttle when your injector flow like fire hose.

I thought I had trouble with those at one stage but in fact it was the inside gasket of the HPFP that was dead and my VIS got scratched from that.
Now with brand new HUCO HPFP (Huco = Hitachi Germany) and 034 Kit it's perfect.

Who did your tune for you?

[Mars2]

I'm in France So will not help you to give you my tuner.
If I was in USA I will 100% go for WPT

[IslandA4]

Do you guys have a part number for the Golf R injectors?

[Shane Horning]

Do you guys have a part number for the Golf R injectors?

026150001H. I think this is right.

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[Nano909]

Do you guys have a part number for the Golf R injectors?

06L906036AK is the latest revision.

[IslandA4]

Thanks!