JB4 Install On My 2022 8Y RS3 - Update

[Crowlski]

I had the JB4 on my 2020 8V RS3 and loved it. When I traded the car in for the 2022 RS3, I took out the JB4 and planned to install it on the new RS3. With all the bad news about the new 8Y's not being tunable I held off installing the JB4, but have been in contact with George at Burgermotorsports.com on a pretty regular basis to stay up on when the JB4 would work on the new model. George now tells me that they are finally shipping the SENT unit with firmware allowing up to MAP 3 configurations (93 octane).

Here is George's response:


We are shipping the Group 9 SENT unit to customers with firmware that works up to map 3. It is the unit that is found here:

https://burgertuning.com/collections...9-jb4-for-audi

The Vin recognition is not working on all models so if at idle you are not seeing rpm moving in the display of the app you will need to do a settings change that I have outlined below.

Bit5RS38Y (1).jpg

Alternatively I can let you know once we are completely done with the unit.

Currently we limiting the unit to map 3 which is good for 93 octane fuel . With the next update more power can be released but this is good for around 60hp and 55ft lbs.

My app looked slightly different but a quick reply from George and I did the following:

Click Bit 5 to "ON" then hit SAVE.

auto option.jpg

I had no trouble installing the JB4, same procedure as on the 8V, harnesses are the same, but one thing to note is the 8Y has an insulation pad on the outside of the firewall in the engine bay that covers the pass-thru hole in the firewall. I popped off the little egg-shaped grommet that covers the hole and it was easy to snake the OBD wire down and out thru the firewall. I plan on a few pulls to log some data but for those who have the JB4 and wondered if it would install in the new RS3 it does. Give it a shot.

[coolwater]

So my understanding is that this is the same unit as what worked on the RS5/S5/S4/SQ5 B9. I was able to also load the new firmware. But man it’s hard to see how to run the ODB wiring thru firewall. Would be great if you had some visuals to help.

Thanks!

-cW


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[Crowlski]

So my understanding is that this is the same unit as what worked on the RS5/S5/S4/SQ5 B9. I was able to also load the new firmware. But man it’s hard to see how to run the ODB wiring thru firewall. Would be great if you had some visuals to help.

Thanks!

-cW


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It was easy to run the wire thru the FW. Push the wire thru the hole and down then from the engine bay just to the left of the master cyl you can just barely get your hand down and feel under the insulation pad. There is a slit in the pad and you'll be able to left it up and find the wire. Easier than it looks.

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[Jetdriver]

Are there any downsides to running a piggyback vs. a flashed tune on these cars? I've only ever used flashes on my previous cars (Mazda and Subaru). I've read nothing but good things about the JB4, even in the BMW forums. It does sound like an easier way to get more power than a flash tune.

[Alex D]

Are there any downsides to running a piggyback vs. a flashed tune on these cars? I've only ever used flashes on my previous cars (Mazda and Subaru). I've read nothing but good things about the JB4, even in the BMW forums. It does sound like an easier way to get more power than a flash tune.

I find the downside just as a off the shelf tune is it isn’t optimized for your particular car and mods. Just seems like a dangerous way to increase power by manipulating the signals of a few sensors without any adjustment of the timing,fuel trims, etc. this is only my opinion of them as I know many have been happy with them.

[tegxsi]

Flash tunes are better but when there aren't any options JB4 works well for what it is.
I would always try to blend in some E85 to get the most out of it and for some safety margin. I used to run E30.

[Jetdriver]

I find the downside just as a off the shelf tune is it isn’t optimized for your particular car and mods. Just seems like a dangerous way to increase power by manipulating the signals of a few sensors without any adjustment of the timing,fuel trims, etc. this is only my opinion of them as I know many have been happy with them.

Aren't most flashes (like APR) "off the shelf" tunes as well?

[Crowlski]

Are there any downsides to running a piggyback vs. a flashed tune on these cars? I've only ever used flashes on my previous cars (Mazda and Subaru). I've read nothing but good things about the JB4, even in the BMW forums. It does sound like an easier way to get more power than a flash tune.

Well like some are saying flash tunes are not an option, yet. And I like the versatility of having the option with thebJB4 of completely running stealth when I comes to dealer warranty.

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[Crowlski]

Flash tunes are better but when there aren't any options JB4 works well for what it is.
I would always try to blend in some E85 to get the most out of it and for some safety margin. I used to run E30.

Comparing the JB4 and a stage one tune, wouldn't you say the gains are similar?

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[Alex D]

Well like some are saying flash tunes are not an option, yet. And I like the versatility of having the option with thebJB4 of completely running stealth when I comes to dealer warranty.

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I was under impression that the dealer could still detect tampering even with the JB4 removed.

[tegxsi]

Comparing the JB4 and a stage one tune, wouldn't you say the gains are similar?

JB4 on map 1/2 didn't feel much quicker but I had to deal with crappy California 91. Running more boost would make the ECU pull more timing.

The key is to eliminate any knock retard. E30 blend on map 6 felt quicker than stage 1 pump gas tunes.

[coolwater]

I was under impression that the dealer could still detect tampering even with the JB4 removed.

Not really unless you leave physical evidence. Ran the jb4 over 2 years on RS5 and no issues. Went it for service regularly and removed it. Sold the car for an RS3 and was never flagged for TD1.

-cW


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[coolwater]

Are there any downsides to running a piggyback vs. a flashed tune on these cars? I've only ever used flashes on my previous cars (Mazda and Subaru). I've read nothing but good things about the JB4, even in the BMW forums. It does sound like an easier way to get more power than a flash tune.

It’s the best tuning box out there. With the odb connected the shifting is optimized with stock drivability. I’ve tried others that don’t use the odb and the shifting was pretty bad.

-cW


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[TToysRuS]

Not really unless you leave physical evidence. Ran the jb4 over 2 years on RS5 and no issues. Went it for service regularly and removed it. Sold the car for an RS3 and was never flagged for TD1.

-cW


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TCU logs over-torque events. Unplugging the JB4 wont cut it alone. There is a reason JB4 denotes on their website that it can void warranties and can be detected.

[coolwater]

TCU logs over-torque events. Unplugging the JB4 wont cut it alone. There is a reason JB4 denotes on their website that it can void warranties and can be detected.

There is always risk and you should check with George@burger if you are concerned. I’ve run the jb4 on B9 s5, rs5 and sq5 with no issues or warranty problems when removing before going in for service.

Just like an ecu tune, I flash or go back to stock, clear any codes with ODB11 and drive around for 50miles before going in.

Btw, I have yet to hear of a single car get TD1 at Audi from JB4. If there is one let’s bring it to everyone attention here and to burger.


-cW


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[TToysRuS]

There is always risk and you should check with George@burger if you are concerned. I’ve run the jb4 on B9 s5, rs5 and sq5 with no issues or warranty problems when removing before going in for service.

Just like an ecu tune, I flash or go back to stock, clear any codes with ODB11 and drive around for 50miles before going in.

Btw, I have yet to hear of a single car get TD1 at Audi from JB4. If there is one let’s bring it to everyone attention here and to burger.


-cW


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Context is important. Have you taken your car in for any sort of major engine or transmission failure/repair which required the local Audi representative to come out and inspect the car/tune? If not, its not realistic to tell folks a TD1 wont happen or is very unlikely with a JB4, as the dealership is required to submit data to the Audi corporate rep which will identify the excessive output/parameters, resulting in a TD1, TB1, or otherwise. There are forum posts about RS3s/TTRS's having warranty work declined due to "previously installed external tuning boxes". Why else would Burger put the warning on their website if they were safe?

Some attachments as well..

[Loe]

So my understanding is that this is the same unit as what worked on the RS5/S5/S4/SQ5 B9. I was able to also load the new firmware. But man it’s hard to see how to run the ODB wiring thru firewall. Would be great if you had some visuals to help.

Thanks!

-cW


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Group 9 is an evolution of those, but I believe they have a different/updated chip set that would not be interchangable, specifically the fuel-pressure/rail wires in how the chip set operates. The updated chip set's have a different boost sensor sample rate, which eliminated the no-boost scenario that plagued a few years of the DAZA development, but has since been resolved with the updated chips.

The group 9 looks to be similar to the 8v/8s RS3/TTRS SENT units only with a different firmware, which means you can pick up a used group 9 JB4 and upload the new firmware to make it work for the 8y.

As for the OBDII wire, you technically can route it through the drivers side door area where it meets the hood, there is sufficient line length to do so if you don't want to poke through the firewall.

[Crowlski]

Not really unless you leave physical evidence. Ran the jb4 over 2 years on RS5 and no issues. Went it for service regularly and removed it. Sold the car for an RS3 and was never flagged for TD1.

-cW


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Same here. Had the JB4 on my 2020 RS3 and whenever I'd take in for service I'd remove the JB4 with no issues.

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[Crowlski]

TCU logs over-torque events. Unplugging the JB4 wont cut it alone. There is a reason JB4 denotes on their website that it can void warranties and can be detected.

I think the Denote is more for those who forget to take it out before heading to the dealer for service.

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[coolwater]

Context is important. Have you taken your car in for any sort of major engine or transmission failure/repair which required the local Audi representative to come out and inspect the car/tune? If not, its not realistic to tell folks a TD1 wont happen or is very unlikely with a JB4, as the dealership is required to submit data to the Audi corporate rep which will identify the excessive output/parameters, resulting in a TD1, TB1, or otherwise. There are forum posts about RS3s/TTRS's having warranty work declined due to "previously installed external tuning boxes". Why else would Burger put the warning on their website if they were safe?

Some attachments as well..

I’ve owned over 10 Audis and have done some tuning all of them. Had pistons and rings swapped on my A4 when I had a GIAC tune on it and AOA covered the full job as it’s a known issue. But got denied for engine mounts due to wear and tear. They worked with AOA and covered it. If you are that concerned you should do your own due diligence or not tune at all and leave your car stock.

I’ve only had good experiences and no problems at all with water pumps, recalls, full dsg replaced on my S4, misfires and random engine codes diagnosed and including piston/rings replaced due to excessive oil consumption. I’ve gone in a few times in a pinch to get oil or fluids topped off at dealer and tell my SA I still have the box on. They aren’t trying to screw you over as they want the business.

Btw, if you are so against tuning boxes why are you in this thread?


-cW


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[coolwater]

Group 9 is an evolution of those, but I believe they have a different/updated chip set that would not be interchangable, specifically the fuel-pressure/rail wires in how the chip set operates. The updated chip set's have a different boost sensor sample rate, which eliminated the no-boost scenario that plagued a few years of the DAZA development, but has since been resolved with the updated chips.

The group 9 looks to be similar to the 8v/8s RS3/TTRS SENT units only with a different firmware, which means you can pick up a used group 9 JB4 and upload the new firmware to make it work for the 8y.

As for the OBDII wire, you technically can route it through the drivers side door area where it meets the hood, there is sufficient line length to do so if you don't want to poke through the firewall.

That’s true, though I think the cleaner install is thru firewall for sure. And it’s great these boxes from the previous RS3 and also B9 S/RS cars can work with a firmware update. Saved me $700 from buying a new unit.

-cW


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[coolwater]

I think the Denote is more for those who forget to take it out before heading to the dealer for service.

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Exactly, I mean there is always risk. But so is doing anything aftermarket on your car. The ability to log and switch maps on the fly is what makes the jb4 great and keep you within safety limits.

-cW


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[George@BMS]

TCU logs over-torque events. Unplugging the JB4 wont cut it alone. There is a reason JB4 denotes on their website that it can void warranties and can be detected.

TCU gets torque reading from ECU. The ECU is always seeing stock torque or less.

[George@BMS]

Context is important. Have you taken your car in for any sort of major engine or transmission failure/repair which required the local Audi representative to come out and inspect the car/tune? If not, its not realistic to tell folks a TD1 wont happen or is very unlikely with a JB4, as the dealership is required to submit data to the Audi corporate rep which will identify the excessive output/parameters, resulting in a TD1, TB1, or otherwise. There are forum posts about RS3s/TTRS's having warranty work declined due to "previously installed external tuning boxes". Why else would Burger put the warning on their website if they were safe?

Some attachments as well..

That document actually turned out to be fake or was never put on any system.
No TB1 has ever occurred to date on no flashed car had a change in the hardware version. At the time I made a couple of posts here and there to see if anything would come up: https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/td1...d-tb1.7983890/ In some markets all trade ins get full scans for tuning so if this was a issue there would be 1000's of cases similar to TD1's for flashes.
Attached are the formal tuning codes. If you go in with it on and a rod out the block you will most likely get a T10 or T23 from a visual inspection.

[George@BMS]

I find the downside just as a off the shelf tune is it isn’t optimized for your particular car and mods. Just seems like a dangerous way to increase power by manipulating the signals of a few sensors without any adjustment of the timing,fuel trims, etc. this is only my opinion of them as I know many have been happy with them.

Relative to the model we change timing, fuel trims and AFR targeting as we do not sell generic piggy backs and each unit is vehicle specific. It happens that some cars might share the same sensors then they can be used on two different motors with the specific software for each.
With the JB4 being connected to the vehicle data network we can run various safety systems as well such as lean run protection, knock protection etc where the JB4 reverts to a stock map if a issue is detected. The data network also allows for custom tuning and condition based changes on the tune.

[TheContrarian]

Using a JB4 is more about protecting against a TD1 than anything. If indeed you suffer a serious engine incident with it installed, just like a a flash tune, you are unlikely to be covered.

[myrder]

That document actually turned out to be fake or was never put on any system.
No TB1 has ever occurred to date on no flashed car had a change in the hardware version. At the time I made a couple of posts here and there to see if anything would come up: https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/td1...d-tb1.7983890/ In some markets all trade ins get full scans for tuning so if this was a issue there would be 1000's of cases similar to TD1's for flashes.
Attached are the formal tuning codes. If you go in with it on and a rod out the block you will most likely get a T10 or T23 from a visual inspection.

I feel like you are walking a fine line with what you are sharing and telling your customers. I've seen other BMWs get hit with ecm altered when JB4 was unplugged. Hell my car was one of them in 2013 area. I brought my car to a deal for an issue, completely uninstalled JB4 cleared codes prior and came back to my warranty voided. Unless you wanna spend 1000s fighting a dealership with a lawyer they can still do whatever they want.

[tegxsi]

One thing I did when I removed the JB4 is to drive the car around to get the ethanol out and let the fuel trims and anything that's stored in the ECU short term to normalize.

If something catastrophic happens and the JB4 is removed it's your word against the dealer. The dealer can dig into the ECU, look at freeze frame and stored parameters...
Boost data JB4 fed to the ECU is not actual. Elevated injector duty cycle and fuel trims might raise a flag but it's not concrete.

Again, it's your word against the dealers. You gotta pay to play... Don't be upset if your warranty is void.

[Alex D]

One thing I did when I removed the JB4 is to drive the car around to get the ethanol out and let the fuel trims and anything that's stored in the ECU short term to normalize.

If something catastrophic happens and the JB4 is removed it's your word against the dealer. The dealer can dig into the ECU, look at freeze frame and stored parameters...
Boost data JB4 fed to the ECU is not actual. Elevated injector duty cycle and fuel trims might raise a flag but it's not concrete.

Again, it's your word against the dealers. You gotta pay to play... Don't be upset if your warranty is void.

I just confirmed what you said with a dealership tech. In the event of a catastrophic failure, they can dig into freeze frame data as mentioned. He did mention it’s not often they do this but in the case such as a motor failure vs something small like a water pump failure, they might dig in a bit further.

[Crowlski]

I just confirmed what you said with a dealership tech. In the event of a catastrophic failure, they can dig into freeze frame data as mentioned. He did mention it’s not often they do this but in the case such as a motor failure vs something small like a water pump failure, they might dig in a bit further.

Unless you mess with the mapping on the JB4, click off the protections, or flog the crap out of the car, the chance of a catastrophic engine failure is not likely especially for someone like me who is running Map 3 on 93 go juice looking for an extra bump in push.

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[tegxsi]

I just confirmed what you said with a dealership tech. In the event of a catastrophic failure, they can dig into freeze frame data as mentioned. He did mention it’s not often they do this but in the case such as a motor failure vs something small like a water pump failure, they might dig in a bit further.

They will have to dig deeper if AoA asks for more. Dealers rather have warranty work than to void a warranty.

A splash of E85 is what makes JB4 shine and keep things safer... The datalogging is slow AF but I suggest anyone with JB4 should review datalogs to make sure things are running right.

[Crowlski]

One observation outside of the additional throttle response (haven't really pushed it since installing the JB4) is the exhaust note sounds raspier, a bit louder or more robust in performance/Individual modes.

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[George@BMS]

One thing I did when I removed the JB4 is to drive the car around to get the ethanol out and let the fuel trims and anything that's stored in the ECU short term to normalize.

If something catastrophic happens and the JB4 is removed it's your word against the dealer. The dealer can dig into the ECU, look at freeze frame and stored parameters...
Boost data JB4 fed to the ECU is not actual. Elevated injector duty cycle and fuel trims might raise a flag but it's not concrete.

Again, it's your word against the dealers. You gotta pay to play... Don't be upset if your warranty is void.

By design we do not make them to avoid flags etc. They simply work within the parameters the ECU considers normal operation. The ECU does not have endless storage so most parameters are stored in fault freeze frames. IF we do not keep trims etc within the limit allowable by the ECU the car will permanently trigger fault codes. For trims for example on some cars we need to alter the fuel rail pressure to keep them within reason above a certain power level. Having this capability due to JB4 being unique to each car gives us the edge to generic piggy backs which in essence are boost controllers and they have to walk a even finer line before the ECU detects issues.

[TToysRuS]

By design we do not make them to avoid flags etc. They simply work within the parameters the ECU considers normal operation. The ECU does not have endless storage so most parameters are stored in fault freeze frames. IF we do not keep trims etc within the limit allowable by the ECU the car will permanently trigger fault codes. For trims for example on some cars we need to alter the fuel rail pressure to keep them within reason above a certain power level. Having this capability due to JB4 being unique to each car gives us the edge to generic piggy backs which in essence are boost controllers and they have to walk a even finer line before the ECU detects issues.

Would be nice if the fault codes and overtorque events could be cleared, then this would essentially be undetectable

[coolwater]

It was easy to run the wire thru the FW. Push the wire thru the hole and down then from the engine bay just to the left of the master cyl you can just barely get your hand down and feel under the insulation pad. There is a slit in the pad and you'll be able to left it up and find the wire. Easier than it looks.

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Just to confirm, is it the first grommet or the one more to the left?



Left of that


-cW


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[Crowlski]

Just to confirm, is it the first grommet or the one more to the left?



Left of that


-cW


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Yes, be careful popping it off as it will fall thru the hole. And once you do pop it off you will see the insulation pad on the outside of the firewall. Fish the wire thru and down and from the engine bay you will see a slit in the exact spot the hole is. Lift it up and feel around for the wire. You will find it.

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[Mooseman]

JB4 on map 1/2 didn't feel much quicker but I had to deal with crappy California 91. Running more boost would make the ECU pull more timing.

The key is to eliminate any knock retard. E30 blend on map 6 felt quicker than stage 1 pump gas tunes.

E30 alone makes my bone stock 1/4 mile go from 11.9 to 11.5. These cars respond quite well to increased octane.

[tegxsi]

E30 alone makes my bone stock 1/4 mile go from 11.9 to 11.5. These cars respond quite well to increased octane.

Gas is crap around here... Cleaning up the ignition timing does wonders.

[Loe]

Terry Just dyno'd an 8y on Map4 + E30, everything else stock on a dynojet:

Stock dyno: 376.88hp / 355.20tq
Map 3 (93 octane): 424hp / 400.53tq
Map 4 (e30 mix): 476.13hp / 464.88tq

Decent results, Map 4 is "just" +5psi over stock.

[Crowlski]

Terry Just dyno'd an 8y on Map4 + E30, everything else stock on a dynojet:

Stock dyno: 376.88hp / 355.20tq
Map 3 (93 octane): 424hp / 400.53tq
Map 4 (e30 mix): 476.13hp / 464.88tq

Decent results, Map 4 is "just" +5psi over stock.

Interesting. The stock numbers show atleast to me that the 8Y is a bit under rated. Curious, how much of a difference E30 adds to the hp/tq results vs 93 pump juice?

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