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  1. #1
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    Quattro or Quattro with ultra

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    First off, I apologize if I missed it or post it in the incorrect section, but it’s been quite a challenge to find out which models are equipped with ultra Quattro…
    From what I understand, the torsen diff is replaced by clutch pack in the ultra configuration. For my car b9.5 ‘21 a5 tfsi45, 261hp, the sticker shows Quattro, 7 speed tiptronic dual clutch… Dealership told me “no ultra in this one”… but the app shows Quattro ultra..
    Does anyone here know what an easy visual indicator would be, to differentiate for myself?


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  2. #2
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    All B9.5 2.0T in the US are quattro ultra. The A4 sedan and A5 started out quattro legit, but I think either MY19 or MY20, they were converted to quattro ultra. A4 allroad and Q5 have been quattro ultra from the start.

    It's simple enough to confirm in the PR codes:
    GH0 is no rear diff (not quattro)
    GH1 is open diff for quattro legit
    GH2 is sport diff for quattro legit
    GH4 is open diff for quattro ultra

    Can also be confirmed by looking at the rear diff. If you can find the part number plate on it, type 0DB is for GH1, type 0B0 is for GH4. There's a sticker on the top rear of the unit.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/204046196671 - we see this is 0DB 500 043 G, so type 0DB, code RZV

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/115096971395 - we see this is 0B0 500 043 G, so type 0B0, code SNK

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/164496227378 - this listing has better pics for 0B0, and you can clearly see a strong physical differentiator in the first pic. On the front of the right side output shaft, there's a solenoid and plug that isn't there on the purely passive 0DB design. There's also another plug on the right side after the input shaft.

    2009 A4 Avant 2.0T quattro Prestige, 275k miles

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by lijbu View Post
    First off, I apologize if I missed it or post it in the incorrect section, but it’s been quite a challenge to find out which models are equipped with ultra Quattro…
    From what I understand, the torsen diff is replaced by clutch pack in the ultra configuration. For my car b9.5 ‘21 a5 tfsi45, 261hp, the sticker shows Quattro, 7 speed tiptronic dual clutch… Dealership told me “no ultra in this one”… but the app shows Quattro ultra..
    Does anyone here know what an easy visual indicator would be, to differentiate for myself?
    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum
    I used to have a 21 A5 Sportback 45 (261hp mild hybrid). You have Quattro Ultra.

    Now if that for some reason concerns you, let me tell you about my experience with it. 18 months, with a full winter (and we get lots of snow where I'm at) and lots of twisty park road driving.

    It worked fine and was brilliant in the snow. My current S5 with the sport diff is better on twisty roads, but the A5 was no slouch, and it's mostly because of the sport diff IMHO, not that it is true quatro vs. ultra. The ultra-setup actually can transfer power from front to rear very quickly ... milliseconds ... when needed. You can see videos on youtube that compare the two systems when wheels lose grip, and the Ultra actually does it faster most of the time. There is no real disadvantage to being in FWD mode only when just cruising along on a highway, it just increases your gas mileage. If you punch it, you should notice that the car will still squat like a RWD car, because it will send most of the power to the rear to keep the front from losing grip. It does *not* behave at all like a FWD car (I came from GTI land, I know exactly what a similar power/wr FWD car feels like). Especially driving in dynamic/sport, on country roads using throttle on corner exit would push you out of it nicely, the A5 had far less understeer then the GTI.

    I think the only real-world issue with it (vs. perceived issues by people who have never driving a car that had it and are unfounded) is that if you are doing crazy things, you might overheat the controller/electronics that control the clutch pack. I think this happens mostly to folks driving on more intense off road situations with quattro ultra-vehicles, but it probably could happen if you are hooning it around on a track and using throttle modulation to keep sending more power to the rear to prevent oversteer as I described above re: the country roads. But country roads isn't the same as doing it on track over and over and over again, just like it's not the same when it comes to brakes. Tracking it is just more intense. I am not telling you it *will* happen if you do that, just that it may. I never tracked my A5 beyond a little bit of autocross (which was fun once I figured out how to use the throttle correctly to control the car), so I never really found out. If it does, you end up with the rear not engaging properly, so FWD more or less.

    So if it is/was somehow of concern to you, I hope that helps.

  4. #4
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    This is what I was looking for, thanks for your replies…
    From what I’ve experienced in snow(no tracking for me) the car feels rear wheel bias - you will totally lose the rear when with traction control off…
    Last winter we had a major snow storm, my side street was not plowed, the snow was as tool as the tires.. I figure I’d try it(I have blizzaks winter tires). It was awesome… I had to stop half way because a neighbor got stuck in the street. I thought I would get stuck too if I stopped, but no… we pushed his car back in the driveway, then resumed… it picked back up, plowing snow over the hood into my windshield and going… I’m thinking the system defaults in awd when starting, then disengages
    So no complaints here:)


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  5. #5
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    I'm assuming the S5 and RS5 have standard quattro with default 40/60 split, right?

  6. #6
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    Yes, the ultra config is only on the A/Q models.
    2009 A4 Avant 2.0T quattro Prestige, 275k miles

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smac770 View Post
    Yes, the ultra config is only on the A/Q models.
    And only the 3/4/5 of the A/Q models.
    Current: 2024 BMW M3 Competition xDrive | 2022 Audi Q7
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burrcold View Post
    And only the 3/4/5 of the A/Q models.
    I'm pretty sure the MHEV A6/A7s now have it as well. At least in some market reviews it has been stated as such.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashani9 View Post
    I'm pretty sure the MHEV A6/A7s now have it as well. At least in some market reviews it has been stated as such.
    Yeah I didn't think the 2.0T on the A6/7 continued to get ultra, but apparently so? That's kind of sad.
    Current: 2024 BMW M3 Competition xDrive | 2022 Audi Q7
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  10. #10
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    B9 A4 sedan DCT and A5 coupe/cab/sb DCT started Torsen, switched to ultra either MY19 (update), MY20 (facelift), or MY21 (MHEV).
    B9 A4 6MT and A5 6MT are all ultra.
    B9 A4 allroad and Q5 are all ultra.
    No B9 S or RS is ultra.

    A3/TT/Q3 are Haldax, not ultra. Similar concept, but not the same implementation.

    A8/Q7/Q8 do not use the DL382 or ML402, and so do not have ultra as a config option.

    C8 A6/A7 are all ultra.
    0CJ DL382-7A for 2.0T quattro ultra.
    0HL DL382+-7A for 3.0T quattro ultra.
    0DK DL382E-7A for 2.0T PHEV quattro ultra.
    No C8 S or RS is ultra.

    Seems to be the summary.
    2009 A4 Avant 2.0T quattro Prestige, 275k miles

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burrcold View Post
    Yeah I didn't think the 2.0T on the A6/7 continued to get ultra, but apparently so? That's kind of sad.
    As I mentioned above, I owned a car with it for 18 months, and it was really quite fine. It may have limits, but they are not limits that most folks will notice. That said my S5 with S-Sport is obviously better than my A5 with Ultra was. But I'm not convinced that an S5 without the S-Sport would be that much better, both are still then just open diffs with brake vectoring and if you push the ultra hard enough it does shift most power to the rear. It woudl be at the limits where you might overheat the Ultras electronics/diff thing.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashani9 View Post
    As I mentioned above, I owned a car with it for 18 months, and it was really quite fine. It may have limits, but they are not limits that most folks will notice. That said my S5 with S-Sport is obviously better than my A5 with Ultra was. But I'm not convinced that an S5 without the S-Sport would be that much better, both are still then just open diffs with brake vectoring and if you push the ultra hard enough it does shift most power to the rear. It woudl be at the limits where you might overheat the Ultras electronics/diff thing.
    I get that ultra is probably fine for most but if I'm buying Audi "quattro" I want it to be proper quattro not ultra, not haldex. Honestly if they changed the entire lineup, I would be gone from the brand.
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  13. #13
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    Quattro or Quattro with ultra

    Quote Originally Posted by Burrcold View Post
    I get that ultra is probably fine for most but if I'm buying Audi "quattro" I want it to be proper quattro not ultra, not haldex. Honestly if they changed the entire lineup, I would be gone from the brand.
    I’m thinking it’s all about profit…. They can charge extra for the more performance oriented. I think Subaru does the same(wrx vs sti), also Honda has a similar approach (crv vs pilot). Same way the a5 201hp was not an option before 21’

  14. #14
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    This is all super informative. Looking at my first winter in Kansas coming up and eager to see what the Quattro can do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smac770 View Post
    B9 A4 sedan DCT and A5 coupe/cab/sb DCT started Torsen, switched to ultra either MY19 (update), MY20 (facelift), or MY21 (MHEV).
    Hi @Smac770,
    Why do you specifically mention "sedan" here? Is this for the Avant/station type upto 2018 any different?

    Our 2016 B9 Avant S-line (model: 8W5BAY) from 2016 (link) with Pr-nrs DQ5/T2G (engine), 1X1 (Quattro) also has GH1 (basic rear dif) and 0G7/G1D (DCT/DSG for 4x4) as config, does this mean it has a center Torsen dif (integrated in the G1D?) too, even though our car hasn't have the Sportdif (GH2) but again only the mechanical GH1 dif in the back?

    By the looks of it here(1) and here(2) it seems our B9 with PR's 0G7/G1D has a DL501 type transmission installed?

    If I look at its internals on the right/back-side this looks like a Torsen setup to me?:





    Any way I can visually check this myself? What to look for underneath the car?

    Since all come marketed under the Quattro badge without specific model-information from Audi (except for the heavily marketed 'Ultra'), it's hard to judge which Quattro version, type and generation any specific model-year has installed.

    Appreciate your obvious knowhow and clarity on this topic!
    Last edited by rpvisser; 12-03-2023 at 01:47 PM. Reason: added internals of probable transmission

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smac770 View Post
    B9 A4 sedan DCT and A5 coupe/cab/sb DCT started Torsen...
    Or do you mean with "started Torsen" that actually the good old genuine Torsen from Ur-Quattro was already replaced in the B8.x from 2010 thus also for the A4 B9 (except Ultra?) by a so-called in-house developed 'Gen6' Self-locking Crown-gear centre differential (with multi-plate clutch) as shown in the pictures and explained here (0min50sec and 8m10s)?

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    You're on that side of the world, so the avant and the sedan are the same basis for this discussion. Here in the US, we only get the sedan and the allroad, and the B9 allroad was quattro ultra only.

    If you have the complete PR codes list for your VIN, since the GH_ code doesn't go on the vehicle identification sticker, GH1 is standard open rear diff and GH2 is sport open rear diff, meaning you have Torsen center diff. And GH4 is quattro ultra open rear diff, meaning you have quatto ultra "awd clutch".

    No, crown gear did not replace Torsen in general. Crown gear was used only in the B8 RS5 and RS4, and some B8 Q5 and B8 A4 allroad. Only those with an 0B5 transmission with an 0B5 p/n center diff have a crown gear diff.
    2009 A4 Avant 2.0T quattro Prestige, 275k miles

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smac770 View Post
    ...so the avant and the sedan are the same basis ...
    Check. I understand ánd more recently the first 'normal' Avant, the RS6, is sold in US too! lol ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Smac770 View Post
    If you have the complete PR codes list for your VIN,... GH1 is standard open rear diff... meaning you have Torsen center diff. ...
    Indeed, that's where I got all the quoted seemingly quattro related DQ5/T2G, 1X1, GH1 and 0G7/G1D PR codes of our B9 from.

    So you mean this center Torsen diff is also an internal integral part of a version of the DL501 type transmission within our B9 with our PR's 0G7/G1D?
    Is indicated location of Torsen the same as outlined in green in my previous post?


    Quote Originally Posted by Smac770 View Post
    No, crown gear did not replace Torsen in general. Crown gear was used only in the B8 RS5 and RS4, and some B8 Q5 and B8 A4 allroad. Only those with an 0B5 transmission with an 0B5 p/n center diff have a crown gear diff.
    Wow. Aha clear! That's what I mean. There are soo many variants and types of 'true' continuous Quattro over the years installed by Audi in their model-gamma, that even with the complete PR codes list of a VIN and internet, it is still hard to first understand and then find out which specific combination and itterations of Quattro components every VIN has installed if, like me, somebody is very much interested but no insider/ technical Quattro expert!

    Again tx

  19. #19
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    0G7 = automatic, vs 0G1 = manual
    G1D = 7-speed DCT quattro, vs G1C = 7-speed DCT fwd, vs other Gxx for other transmissions
    1X1 = quattro, vs 1X0 = fwd
    DQ5/T2G is about the engine, not the transmission or drivetrain config
    GH1 = open rear diff for quattro

    your upper pic is a transmission with a crown gear diff and stub shaft output (all MY11+ are stub shaft output)
    your lower pic is a transmission with a Torsen PAT diff and flange shaft output (all >MY10 are flange shaft output)

    DL501-7_ was the B8 era DCT. The B9 era DCT is the DL382-7_.

    B8 G1D would be a DL501-7Q. B9 G1D is either a DL382-7Q (GH1/GH2) or a DL382-7A (GH4).

    https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post14253578
    wow, that was so long ago
    2009 A4 Avant 2.0T quattro Prestige, 275k miles

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    @Smac770 Big Tx!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lijbu View Post
    I’m thinking it’s all about profit…. They can charge extra for the more performance oriented. I think Subaru does the same(wrx vs sti), also Honda has a similar approach (crv vs pilot). Same way the a5 201hp was not an option before 21’
    Ultra is FWD until traction becomes an issue, so perhaps there is also a mileage advantage to help improve the fleet numbers. Just a guess.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan99 View Post
    Ultra is FWD until traction becomes an issue, so perhaps there is also a mileage advantage to help improve the fleet numbers. Just a guess.
    FWIW, If Drive Select is set to Dynamic though, Quattro with Ultra will always set itself into AWD mode when starting from a standstill and transition to FWD later . Absolutely done to help average out fleet consumption numbers across all sales. As some folks have already mentioned in other threads, I'm not sure that most owners will notice. This advanced computerised control system uses a ton of vehicle measurements in it's decision making process and I certainly can't tell any operational quattro difference between my B7 and B9.

    Maybe this is a repeat of that older discussion - while driving could you tell whether your engine was carbureted or fuel injected?
    Current:
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    2008 B7 A4 Avant, 2.0T, 6MTQS, S-Line, Special Edition

    Past: - 2005 B6 A4 3.0 V6 6MTQS, 1998 B5 A4 2.8 V6 5MTQS

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by a4audi4fun View Post
    FWIW, If Drive Select is set to Dynamic though, Quattro with Ultra will always set itself into AWD mode when starting from a standstill and transition to FWD later . Absolutely done to help average out fleet consumption numbers across all sales. As some folks have already mentioned in other threads, I'm not sure that most owners will notice. This advanced computerised control system uses a ton of vehicle measurements in it's decision making process and I certainly can't tell any operational quattro difference between my B7 and B9.

    Maybe this is a repeat of that older discussion - while driving could you tell whether your engine was carbureted or fuel injected?
    You can pump the gas pedal to start a carb equipped car, which can be a problem for fuel injection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smac770 View Post
    ...The B9 era DCT is the DL382-7_.
    Indeed looked up Transmission details via OBD11 and partno. 8W1927155M/ OCK927156S popped up which is indeed a DL382-7Q transmission based on dyno-chiptuningfiles.com

    In this DL382-7Q the center (Torsen) diff is clearly visible in this very nice ‘tutorial’ animation, in the end all the way to the functioning of the complete Quattro drive-train in our specific version of the fully mechanical 2016 ‘B9’ A4:

    Last edited by rpvisser; 12-13-2023 at 12:48 AM. Reason: added link to original HD version of Quattro animation

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings a4audi4fun's Avatar
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    Very cool animation - love watching that style of describing how complex technology actually functions
    Current:
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    Quote Originally Posted by a4audi4fun View Post
    Very cool animation - love watching that style of describing how complex technology actually functions
    For more Audi tech animations like this, it seems that https://www.youtube.com/@DIGITALMEDIATECHNIKGMBH/videos is the source with many more HD versions as per Audi tech topic, including Ultra and 'legit' Quattro drive-trains, its transmissions, different TFSI engines (inline 4 and V8) and even EV. Interesting tech tutorials.
    Last edited by rpvisser; 12-13-2023 at 01:21 AM.

  27. #27
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    Some stuff here, though not sure how organized: https://www.audi-technology-portal.de/en/
    2009 A4 Avant 2.0T quattro Prestige, 275k miles

  28. #28
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    Speaking of transmissions, are the ZF units in the S5 the same as the RS5? I would assume tuning might be different, but I was interested to see if they are physically different transmissions.
    Current: 2024 BMW M3 Competition xDrive | 2022 Audi Q7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smac770 View Post
    Some stuff here, though not sure how organized: https://www.audi-technology-portal.de/en/
    cool stuff. thanks.
    Both links seem to have same animation DNA (i.e. created by same design studio), yet with different rendering perspectives.
    Thus both sources are complementory when it comes to understanding setups and different tech all under same "Quattro" badge.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burrcold View Post
    Speaking of transmissions, are the ZF units in the S5 the same as the RS5? I would assume tuning might be different, but I was interested to see if they are physically different transmissions.
    For B9 years, both use the type 0D5 aka AL552-8Q, ie the ZF 8HP65A gen2 8-speed. But they use different codes. Unfortunately, the code reflects the complete assembly, so the different mechatronics programming for different engines will make the code change, even if all the physicals are the same. For the US market type 8W vehicles (B9 A4/A5), the codes appear to be:

    RZN, B9.0 RS5
    SHP, B9.0 S4/S5
    TMB, B9.5 S4/S5
    TUY, B9.5 RS5

    But we know not all the physicals are identical. The version for the 2.9T (PR TV8) has a different torque converter than the version for the 3.0T (PR T9I). The RS version also has a second gear oil cooler on it. The rest, you'd need to go to the ZF parts catalogs to compare.

    What is curious is the ZF transmission list seems to list the RZN, SHP, and TMB as the HIS version (hydraulic impulse storage, ie stop/start support). But the TUY, they list it as an IEP version (integrated electric pump). Code RVM, used with the RoW S4/S5 48v TDI, is also listed as IEP. But is that the case, or is someone bad at copy/paste?
    2009 A4 Avant 2.0T quattro Prestige, 275k miles

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smac770 View Post
    For B9 years, both use the type 0D5 aka AL552-8Q, ie the ZF 8HP65A gen2 8-speed. But they use different codes. Unfortunately, the code reflects the complete assembly, so the different mechatronics programming for different engines will make the code change, even if all the physicals are the same. For the US market type 8W vehicles (B9 A4/A5), the codes appear to be:

    RZN, B9.0 RS5
    SHP, B9.0 S4/S5
    TMB, B9.5 S4/S5
    TUY, B9.5 RS5

    But we know not all the physicals are identical. The version for the 2.9T (PR TV8) has a different torque converter than the version for the 3.0T (PR T9I). The RS version also has a second gear oil cooler on it. The rest, you'd need to go to the ZF parts catalogs to compare.

    What is curious is the ZF transmission list seems to list the RZN, SHP, and TMB as the HIS version (hydraulic impulse storage, ie stop/start support). But the TUY, they list it as an IEP version (integrated electric pump). Code RVM, used with the RoW S4/S5 48v TDI, is also listed as IEP. But is that the case, or is someone bad at copy/paste?
    Great info, thanks!
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