2015 Audi S4 B8.5 6MT DMF Failure 65k kms or approx 40km - pics and parts on order

[fstr n u]

So at 65,000km on the odometer for my 2015 6spd manual transmission B8.5 S4 I noticed a slight gear noise in the transmission in first gear when at low rpms after my son drove it for a couple weeks for work. I had a Merc Racing Hx and CTS SC pulley/IE Stage 2 tune installed approx Aug 2020 with CTS CAI...otherwise stock car. Essentially a daily driver to work and home...little to no highway miles. Brought it in and had an Audi Technician help in diagnosing a Dual Mass Flywheel failure. Mother trucker. Car is now apart and waiting on parts coming in from across Canada nd US to get it back up to speed. Stock clutch was on it's way out with lots of rev hang (only noticed after my son indicated he was spinning tires in first and second gear....nope....that was clutch slip. I have a Southbend Stage 3 Daily clutch and aluminum flywheel with ECS clutch fork, pilot bearing and transmission mount on order. Thinking about test pipes to relocate cats....will decide over the wknd what i'm doing there. The stock DMF has approx 2 inches of "play" when we looked at it out of the car. I also had coolant loss occurring and we saw some indications the water pump was leaking so that would be a likely culprit...so that will get replaced. Transmission is absolutely fine with no issues on any input or output shafts/gears thankfully. And now i'll be getting my USP clutch delete valve stainless steel line installed....

[Cooper993]

To be fair the DMF didn't fail, it was abused and destroyed. Can't blame the car for that

[fstr n u]

98% of the time the car was driven to and from work barely exceeding 3000k rpms (car just gets warm by the time I get to my parking lot). Occasionally accelerating up to speed on a freeway and hitting 7200rpms would be the most this transmission had seen. No clutch dumps, no ground gears. Car is definitely not abused. Went to the track 4 years ago and did 3 passes. Had the car been abused I would have anticipated transmission work. Either way the DMF is toast and clutch was on it's way out. I can't speak to how the car was driven before me (i'm the second owner).

Wanted to post pics so people who haven't seen these parts can view them. I was shocked to see how big the clutch fork was...in pics on websites it looks like a small piece....definitely not.

Also learned there is some weight differences between SMF flywheels...anywhere from 18-23 lbs depending on brand.

[Cooper993]

...only noticed after my son indicated he was spinning tires in first and second gear....nope....that was clutch slip.

Looking at the pic of clutch and FW, shows how beat up it was. To me, that doesn't look like normal wear/heat marks.

Just my .02

[tomsgtr]

It looks like it was abused or driven by a person that doesn't know how to drive a manual transmission.

[Izzyz28]

Your son beat the shit out of your car, that clutch is fucking DESTROYED. They don't get scorched like that without some serious abuse, not in a million years.

[hardfive]

"...only noticed after my son indicated he was spinning tires in first and second gear"

Oh I bet he was...

[Izzyz28]

"...only noticed after my son indicated he was spinning tires in first and second gear"

Oh I bet he was...

Last time I made a clutch look like this was after doing 14 passes sidestepping it off the 6,500 RPM limiter. I'm sure it was just a fluke that the issue popped up during easy driving to and from work, LMAO.

Edit: Waiting for the inevitable "I looked my son in the eyes and he swears he didn't beat on the car at all and I 100% believe him, he wouldn't lie to me" post.

[Cooper993]

I'd also suggest to have the mechanic inspect other stress points in the drive-train like motor mounts, drive shaft center bearing, diff, etc. for leaks and/or damage.

[Slvrbul8]

98% of the time the car was driven to and from work barely exceeding 3000k rpms (car just gets warm by the time I get to my parking lot). Occasionally accelerating up to speed on a freeway and hitting 7200rpms would be the most this transmission had seen. No clutch dumps, no ground gears. Car is definitely not abused. Went to the track 4 years ago and did 3 passes. Had the car been abused I would have anticipated transmission work. Either way the DMF is toast and clutch was on it's way out. I can't speak to how the car was driven before me (i'm the second owner).

Someone trashed your clutch...this is not normal wear for what you described here.

[fstr n u]

Southbend Stage 3 Daily with LWFW arrived, pilot bearing, trans mount, clutch fork ,etc. Just dropped these off with the mechanic end of day.
USP Clutch Delete Valve line just installed.
Still awaiting JHM Cat Relocation Pipes (without x-pipe); secondary 02 sensor wire harness extension, CTS CEL eliminator and a couple other parts

Regardless of what happened to car, will post pics of rebuild. This will continue to be my DD and when all said and paid off, will go DP as all other mods are done already.

[fstr n u]

JHM non-xipe HFC pipes and Test pipes:









Factory cat and pipe removed:



Transmission with Southbend Stage 3 Clutch and LWFW installed:

[fstr n u]

Going to give these CTS CEL Eliminators a whirl. Stock 02 sensors still go into the stock manifolds and the secondary go into the test pipes (pre-cat) which seems odd but that's how this setup might work?





Transmission and Southbend Stage 3 Daily Clutch and LWFW installed with associated parts:



ECS Transmission Mount Installed:



JHM Test Pipe V2 Driver side installed:



JHM Test Pipe V2 Passenger side installed:

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Southbend Stage 3 Daily with LWFW, throw out bearing and other goodies:



Exhaust - High-Flow Cat Downpipes with Integrated Baffle System (JHM) for the B8 S4 3.0T FSI w/ 2.5" CB Connection

https://jhmotorsports.com/products/e...onnection.html

[fstr n u]

So the CTS CEL did absolutely nothing and after 30 kilometers my check engine light is on...bugger. (might have to extend secondary 02 sensors to post-cat which is 4 feet away...)

Regardless here is a video of my 2015 Audi B8.5 S4 Stage 2 IE with S/C pulley/Merc Racing Hx with JHM Test pipes and the downpipes with baffles.

My car sounds Porsche-like but I have 800kms of driving in city to break in my Southbend Stage 3 Daily/LWFW in... so this is a teaser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydhIXcikkC8

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[fstr n u]

With this new Clutch and LWFW upgrade there is a recommended 800km driving period with mostly in city stop and go driving. I'm at 180kms so far and the clutch/pedal feel is brilliant. Southbend has a perfect combo for our B8.5 S4/S5's as best I can tell. We had a USP Stainless Steel Clutch Delete Valve Line installed and the driving feel is more engaging vs stock by 50% or more. Stock was robotic and numb...this combination has brought life to a car that deserves it and super stoked that a LWFW and HD clutch didn't disturb a daily driver feel. If someone got into my car they wouldn't know it wasn't stock if they hadn't driven the car "pre-clutch" install. It's that good. I still have 600kms of driving before I can take my Stage 2 IE S4 above 4,000rpms while breaking this clutch in. Next step is to do dual pulley if the clutch holds up!

For now as our Saskatchewan, Canadian temps are dipping below zero degrees, I installed my Fast Wheels FC04 Bronze 18" rims and Nokian Hakkapeliitta 8 studded 245/40/18 tires for winter driving....these tires are balls out amazing! My son has the the Hak 10 studded on his VW GTI MK6 and wife on her B9 Audi SQ5 a set of Hak 9 studded..we won't compromise on performance or quality...these tires in winter conditions are the BOMB!!!

[Magnesium]

Looks fun....I grew up near the Canadian border and now live far from snow, sure do miss winter driving on snowy roads, that is good clean fun...

[king_j]

There’s no extra noise/chatter with the LWFW?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[dcyt]

Love the thread and enjoyed your information!
Any updates?

[fstr n u]

At idle there is zero extra noise.
In first and second gears from idle to 2500rpm there is a subtle sound of cardboard baseball card in bike spoke sound then it goes away
I am just reaching the end of clutch break in period and am waiting for the first time in 4 months to finally give my car more than 4000rpm and full throttle....waiting for another 75kms....

The clutch engagement and feel is 80% of stock but more real/natural and really enjoying it...if the clutch holds full throttle accel without slipping as some people have noted i'll be like a kid in a candy store....i'll report back close to xmas. My drive to and from work is only 15kms so it's taking a bit of time to build up break in miles.

So far i'm 110% happy with Southbend Stage 3 Daily w LWFW and USP Clutch Line Delete.

The only 2 mistakes in this build are;

1. not getting an x-pipe built into the exhaust. I have CTS DP and JHM Baffled and HFC exhaust leading to stock mid and stock mufflers. The sound is Porsche like at the back end of the car. Inside the car it sounds like the engine is struggling to breathe...this might be in part to clutch break in and keeping rpms low? Not sure yet. I think this exhaust needs an x-pipe and my next step is to sort out a custom version to give this car the final touches.

2. With the test pipes and relocated high flow cats down stream has come a check engine light and Integrated Engineering isn't able/willing to untune this code so i'll likely delve away from IE and move to another vendor which I wasn't intending to do, but I cannot and will not continue driving this vehicle with a glaring check engine light after all the money poured into it...seems not right to do so. Next step will be to figure out which tuning company i'll move to next (APR, Unitronic, Revo, etc) My plan is to go dual pulley and will keep with CTS parts but need the tune for ECU and emissions to help.

[fstr n u]

Update 90i0kms or 550miles in:
1. Integrated Engineering will not be able to tune out the CHECK ENGINE light that is coming from a relocated High Flow Cat but relocated downstream. If I could have predicted this I would have gone with another vendor as I fully intended to go Dual Pulley and exhaust once I crossed a certain threshold. The CTS O2 spacers coupled with JHM Test Pipes allow for very sporadic CHECK ENGINE lights to go off...but it's for a couple ignition starts or two, then the CHECK ENGINE light stays on for another 200-300kms before popping off for a millisecond.
**If I can figure out how to disable this check engine light due to relocated HFC i'll stick with IE as they are a great tuner....however
**If I can't, I'll disable the IE tune & sell the cable then will source a vendor that will allow for this Audi B8.5 car with a High Flow Cat but relocated and go from there.
****In the end, buyers like us should know limitations or potentials of the tuning platforms they are dealing with.

[SouthernBoy]

A little over 40.000 miles on a clutch is WAY too soon for it to be replaced, unless some extraordinary things have entered the picture.

There are only three factors that can abnormally shorten the life of a clutch assembly. Poor design and faulty parts used during the original installation, faulty installation, or abusive use. The firsts two items are virtually non-existent with a new vehicle, which leaves number three. What composes number three? In no particular order, racing, towing, or not knowing how to properly operate a manual transmission. If the vehicle is not being raced or used for towing and if it is operated properly, then assuming quality parts and installation and you don't live in a town with a lot of hills (San Francisco for example), there is no reason one cannot get well over 200,000 miles out of a clutch assembly.

[Izzyz28]

A little over 40.000 miles on a clutch is WAY too soon for it to be replaced, unless some extraordinary things have entered the picture.

There are only three factors that can abnormally shorten the life of a clutch assembly. Poor design and faulty parts used during the original installation, faulty installation, or abusive use. The firsts two items are virtually non-existent with a new vehicle, which leaves number three. What composes number three? In no particular order, racing, towing, or not knowing how to properly operate a manual transmission. If the vehicle is not being raced or used for towing and if it is operated properly, then assuming quality parts and installation and you don't live in a town with a lot of hills (San Francisco for example), there is no reason one cannot get well over 200,000 miles out of a clutch assembly.

His son beat the shit out of it, but swears he just drove to work and back.

[SouthernBoy]

His son beat the shit out of it, but swears he just drove to work and back.

Yeah, I read that. I have a rule. Never lend my personal driving machine to anyone; period. I have a truck which I might do this but not my driving machine.

[BRadMobile007]

Thanks for all the info, suggestions and pics! I've been on the fence about doing that same clutch/LWFW setup for some time but had too many negative-Nancy's talk me down and saying it'll be "too hard" to drive.

Is there a noticeable difference in rev speed and/or when rev-matching and (down)shifting?

Don't get too hung up on the exhaust sound just yet man! You haven't completed your vision for the cat-back setup yet. I have the AWE touring cat-back exhaust and I love the tone, although it is somewhat mild. But I think in combination with the components you have (DP, HFCC), it'd be perfect IMOP and possibly where I'm headed next.

I have the 034 Motorsport Stage 2 single pulley tune (with ECS intake, AWE cat-back, and APR supercharger pulley/belt), and it's awesome. Cool features like the auxiliary fan, launch control (which I don't suggest using in our 6MT's), RMP increase, etc. Stock clutch feels okay now but not great and my guess is won't like the new power for long, we'll see! I have no experience with other tuners so I can't compare to 034, but I can say that 034 customer service has exceeded expectations, and they offer youtube videos for everything.

Another perk for me was that they provided a data logging tool by request, for free. This allows me to take/send in logs anytime I want for a quick assessment which I've already done many times. This in itself has been worth the cost of the tune and helping me to learn along the way.

Keep up the great work. I might suggest contacting the 034 team (or other tuner) and ask about this issue to ensure they can help before making any tuning changes. Good luck!

[hardfive]

Update 90i0kms or 550miles in:
1. Integrated Engineering will not be able to tune out the CHECK ENGINE light that is coming from a relocated High Flow Cat but relocated downstream. If I could have predicted this I would have gone with another vendor as I fully intended to go Dual Pulley and exhaust once I crossed a certain threshold. The CTS O2 spacers coupled with JHM Test Pipes allow for very sporadic CHECK ENGINE lights to go off...but it's for a couple ignition starts or two, then the CHECK ENGINE light stays on for another 200-300kms before popping off for a millisecond.
**If I can figure out how to disable this check engine light due to relocated HFC i'll stick with IE as they are a great tuner....however
**If I can't, I'll disable the IE tune & sell the cable then will source a vendor that will allow for this Audi B8.5 car with a High Flow Cat but relocated and go from there.
****In the end, buyers like us should know limitations or potentials of the tuning platforms they are dealing with.

Just bite the bullet and go 034 and have them code the 02 sensor CEL out. I did and its so nice to have no CEL.

Note, they just turn off the CEL so if emissions are a thing its not a permanent answer as the cats will never reach readiness. If no emissions, go 034 and never look back.

[fstr n u]

Cold startup video - same as above just better quality. Next video will be a warm engine and revving so you can hear the exhaust better:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/stBhHmtKqLI

[fstr n u]

I'll get the rev video posted tomorrow...off to a delayed xmas supper with the folks.

[fstr n u]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/a9tjMYnFBCI

As promised revving of the warm motor.....

[coop3422]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/a9tjMYnFBCI

As promised revving of the warm motor.....

Where in SK are you? We have a cabin at Diefenbaker by Elbow and my inlaws farm is about 25 miles SE from Elbow so we spend a lot of our summers out there.

Exhaust sounds good, always tough to know through computer speakers.

[fstr n u]

Sorry all, I have no idea how to embed the youtube image versus links, but just posted these vids of the JHM Test Pipes, DP, Integrated Baffles (no x-pipe), to stock mid and rear muffler. Acceleration and driveby clips.

1. Here is a video of the car from a standstill:
https://youtube.com/shorts/2j0PcnHerX4?feature=share


2. Here is a slightly different angle and acceleration as a drive by:
https://youtube.com/shorts/ekO2njqkZQk?feature=share

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Saskatoon...good ol Hub City

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Prepping car before Maxton Gloss Black Bat Wing Install....

[fstr n u]

Next up custom exhaust
Magnaflow 2.5" mid muffler/resonator to Corsa Mufflers and tips
If the sound is too aggressive, we'll add in another set of resonators...booking is on May 17th!

[fstr n u]

So stock mid and rear exhaust gone.
Now tied in is a full 2.5" exhaust from the JHM Test Pipes, JHM DP w HFC to Magnaflow resonated x-pipe to Corsa Mufflers. Work was done by Competition Muffler, Saskatoon, SK, Canada and sounds great.
Posting pics first then will do vids.



Inside the Magnaflow x-pipe:


Inside the JHM DP with Integrated Baffles:

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Full custom 2.5" exhaust - JHM DP HFC Integrated Baffles to Magnaflow mid x-pipe resonated muffler to Corsa Mufflers revving - 1st start

https://youtube.com/shorts/utjJMuHXcAs?feature=share

[fstr n u]

next up cold start
Revving when engine warm
Then a drive by