Understanding Supercharger porting basics

[RoofRails]

Brett at Jokers Performance has been posting some cool content on port work and understanding why certain things work. If you have ever tried searching for this kind of content it's tough to find. If you like to know the basics behind how and why porting work give this a read.

Supercharger porting

"In February of 2015 I made a post on rotor entry porting. In todays post I am going to clear up how port work effects your supercharger in clarity so that way communities understand fully what is going on.

This post is not guidance , advice and is not applicable to your build at hand. It is a personalized perspective that we formed in order to inform our customers and others about porting in a generalized format. Please contact your tuner, builder, or shop for details on your build.

Why do you port?

You port to increase the amount of air an item can move or flow. When porting a supercharger the way to increase flow to the rotors consists of two parts. Volume and rotor entry duration. This ends in a hp gain and torque gain to the read wheels

Volume porting

Volume porting is basically enlarging the inlet housing and creating a larger mass of air between the throttle body and rotor bearing cup. This method of porting is an important part of the port because it helps and supports the second stage of porting at the rotor face. In order to fill the entry point of the rotors you need the mass of air behind the entry point.

Rotor entry porting

Porting at the rotor face is the most crucial part of your port. Coupled with the volume side of the port the amount of material and the shape you provide will effect the power band your supercharger will produce. The profile you choose will determine the powerband you wish to produce. Lots of rotor face duration will create a higher hp level in the higher rpm band sacrificing low end torque. Less rotor face porting creates a better low end power band with a little bit of high end. A proper port designed with both considered will work best when coupled with the superchargers efficiency map, blower rpm range and most users applicable power band. Profile shape will determine how the rotor wash out is controlled. As air enters the rotors the air is deflected by the rotor face and how your rotor face is designed will effect the wash out. So entry into make a HUGE difference in your port work.

outlet porting

Proper outlet duration porting in relation to the inlet can help move air out of the rotor pack sooner allowing more air to fill into the rotor before inlet has closed itself off. To little is insignificant to much can be detrimental to the power band.

Porting effects on powerband

Im going to try and explain this as simple as possible while trying to be technical and correct in my statements. As mentioned above volume porting is great for all applications as this is just making the housing up to the rotors as efficient as possible. This will seperate most ports as this is the most time consuming part of the port. This will supply the air needed for the rotor entry to do its part. Now for rotor entry portion. Rotor entry porting basically controls the power band you wish to shoot for. As mentioned above rotor entry more or less controls the power band. There is however a crucial side effect of this. By controlling the power band you need to take into WHEN that port starts making power and how much blower speed is needed to get to that power band. For example if You have a standard port then redesign that standard port for a higher hp application when does that new port seperate itself from the base. This is a very very crucial part of the port. The amount of material you remove from the face will effect the amount of power your motor will have to supply in order for you to make hp at x Engine rpm. What we are talking about here is useable and operable power band. If the port only produces a better power band for 500 rpms then port is not done correctly. Now this can be overcome. By spinning the blower harder you can bring that range of power back Into a useable range. Smaller uppers and larger lowers this solves this issue. It also however creates more load which becomes more parasitic on motor. This also becomes a factor for the cooling system but we will get to that later. If you increase blower speed and port duration then you need to supply the air. You can do this with cold air intakes, throttle bodies, and volume style porting. Lets get something straight rotors will move All the air as long as it can be supplied. The problem is we are stuck with inlet shapes, cold air intake shapes, throttle body sizes limited by electronics, the list goes on and on. These all need to be incorporated into a port design because the rotor entry profile you choose has an rpm band that needs to match all those mentioned. Without it all considered you could make hp and tq but how much of that power band is being Used. 500-1000-4500 rpms? All the above effects a power band. We can dial in all of ports within 500 rpm of your shift point.

additional effects of porting

Most porting of superchargers requires additional pulley in order to see gains. However a properly designed port will make power from stock rpm to about 10-20 percent increase in blower rpm where from there you choose a more aggressive port in order to finish out the capabilities of the applications power band. You can add More pulley but you will have considered heat and cooling. From there you would max out the inlet per the application limitations as mentioned above with the cold air intakes, volume of inlet, and throttle bodies should effect your port profile. After you have considered all that how does your cooling capability apply? Well just because you cool air does not mean the boost produced is efficient. A supercharger needs to operate in its best potential efficiency range in order to make the most hp at x amount of rpm while the cooling system has the ability to cool that air. This makes the supercharger system optimized giving you a full powerband to use and the supercharger should get close to maxing out at your shift range. Failure to do everything above will result in high iat2, broken belts, loss of power down low and up top.

Porting effects on structure

Porting removes material. How does this effect the surrounding structures. Leaving castings in place will retain the best structural support for long term use. Modifying housing with epoxy and welding have an effect on load capabilities during operation and rebuilding. These structures and their support will be effected by rpm heat and pressure. Not saying failure is imminent but every blower has casting tension and when material is removed completely it can cause case flex in bad places. This is why we try to remain on the cautios side and make as much power with what we are supplied. It has worked for many applications down to 8 seconds.

I hope you enjoyed this post about port work. This is just a generalized post about how we approach our port work at jokerz. Please consider your port style on your build application".



Sent from my SM-N986U using Audizine Forum mobile app

[wrxkyle]

here it is without the explosive bullets and instead bold...

Brett at Jokers Performance has been posting some cool content on port work and understanding why certain things work. If you have ever tried searching for this kind of content it's tough to find. If you like to know the basics behind how and why porting work give this a read.

Supercharger porting

"In February of 2015 I made a post on rotor entry porting. In todays post I am going to clear up how port work effects your supercharger in clarity so that way communities understand fully what is going on.

This post is not guidance , advice and is not applicable to your build at hand. It is a personalized perspective that we formed in order to inform our customers and others about porting in a generalized format. Please contact your tuner, builder, or shop for details on your build.

Why do you port?

You port to increase the amount of air an item can move or flow. When porting a supercharger the way to increase flow to the rotors consists of two parts. Volume and rotor entry duration. This ends in a hp gain and torque gain to the read wheels

Volume porting

Volume porting is basically enlarging the inlet housing and creating a larger mass of air between the throttle body and rotor bearing cup. This method of porting is an important part of the port because it helps and supports the second stage of porting at the rotor face. In order to fill the entry point of the rotors you need the mass of air behind the entry point.

Rotor entry porting

Porting at the rotor face is the most crucial part of your port. Coupled with the volume side of the port the amount of material and the shape you provide will effect the power band your supercharger will produce. The profile you choose will determine the powerband you wish to produce. Lots of rotor face duration will create a higher hp level in the higher rpm band sacrificing low end torque. Less rotor face porting creates a better low end power band with a little bit of high end. A proper port designed with both considered will work best when coupled with the superchargers efficiency map, blower rpm range and most users applicable power band. Profile shape will determine how the rotor wash out is controlled. As air enters the rotors the air is deflected by the rotor face and how your rotor face is designed will effect the wash out. So entry into make a HUGE difference in your port work.

Outlet porting

Proper outlet duration porting in relation to the inlet can help move air out of the rotor pack sooner allowing more air to fill into the rotor before inlet has closed itself off. To little is insignificant to much can be detrimental to the power band.

Porting effects on powerband

I'm going to try and explain this as simple as possible while trying to be technical and correct in my statements. As mentioned above volume porting is great for all applications as this is just making the housing up to the rotors as efficient as possible. This will seperate most ports as this is the most time consuming part of the port. This will supply the air needed for the rotor entry to do its part. Now for rotor entry portion. Rotor entry porting basically controls the power band you wish to shoot for. As mentioned above rotor entry more or less controls the power band. There is however a crucial side effect of this. By controlling the power band you need to take into WHEN that port starts making power and how much blower speed is needed to get to that power band. For example if You have a standard port then redesign that standard port for a higher hp application when does that new port seperate itself from the base. This is a very very crucial part of the port. The amount of material you remove from the face will effect the amount of power your motor will have to supply in order for you to make hp at x Engine rpm. What we are talking about here is useable and operable power band. If the port only produces a better power band for 500 rpms then port is not done correctly. Now this can be overcome. By spinning the blower harder you can bring that range of power back Into a useable range. Smaller uppers and larger lowers this solves this issue. It also however creates more load which becomes more parasitic on motor. This also becomes a factor for the cooling system but we will get to that later. If you increase blower speed and port duration then you need to supply the air. You can do this with cold air intakes, throttle bodies, and volume style porting. Lets get something straight rotors will move All the air as long as it can be supplied. The problem is we are stuck with inlet shapes, cold air intake shapes, throttle body sizes limited by electronics, the list goes on and on. These all need to be incorporated into a port design because the rotor entry profile you choose has an rpm band that needs to match all those mentioned. Without it all considered you could make hp and tq but how much of that power band is being Used. 500-1000-4500 rpms? All the above effects a power band. We can dial in all of ports within 500 rpm of your shift point.

Additional effects of porting

Most porting of superchargers requires additional pulley in order to see gains. However a properly designed port will make power from stock rpm to about 10-20 percent increase in blower rpm where from there you choose a more aggressive port in order to finish out the capabilities of the applications power band. You can add More pulley but you will have considered heat and cooling. From there you would max out the inlet per the application limitations as mentioned above with the cold air intakes, volume of inlet, and throttle bodies should effect your port profile. After you have considered all that how does your cooling capability apply? Well just because you cool air does not mean the boost produced is efficient. A supercharger needs to operate in its best potential efficiency range in order to make the most hp at x amount of rpm while the cooling system has the ability to cool that air. This makes the supercharger system optimized giving you a full powerband to use and the supercharger should get close to maxing out at your shift range. Failure to do everything above will result in high iat2, broken belts, loss of power down low and up top.

Porting effects on structure

Porting removes material. How does this effect the surrounding structures. Leaving castings in place will retain the best structural support for long term use. Modifying housing with epoxy and welding have an effect on load capabilities during operation and rebuilding. These structures and their support will be effected by rpm heat and pressure. Not saying failure is imminent but every blower has casting tension and when material is removed completely it can cause case flex in bad places. This is why we try to remain on the cautios side and make as much power with what we are supplied. It has worked for many applications down to 8 seconds.

I hope you enjoyed this post about port work. This is just a generalized post about how we approach our port work at jokerz. Please consider your port style on your build application".

[BrokeBichB8]

Hate to be devils advocate here but I think theres a little bit of conflicting info in regard to SC inlet porting. I dont think the low end ever really suffers. From my understandings this patent says the bigger SC inlet, the better, with no negatives. Look up the patent, kinda confusing but simplified diagrams say alot.

Per Magnuson Patent 16/465738
Improved inlet port configuration for roots-type supercharger


Some abstracts as I have been reading in hopes of machining my charger moreso. Patent info is in brackets.

In regard to porting inlet ports...
["inlet ports can be enlarged even beyond the sizes we tested to achieve superior performance"]

The past supercharger porters used to say you'd lose low end but here the patent says something otherwise....
["prior art understanding would expect significant losses in performance at the top end (high rpm operation), but as will be explained below, our tests showed surprising results of enhanced performance, not losses"

[wrxkyle]

with the iabed tb adapter you can do 82mm or 75mm porche tb's i think those are the numbers don't quote me, but they lost power down low on the larger tb and only recommended for high ratio pully ported chargers. not exactly the same but maybe in some ways related.

[Fresh.S4]

lmao....

search up a guy bvdhr ? he tested all the throttle bodies for us a few years back. I ported mine 80mm and rocked it with the oem tb just fine before i finally bought a hemi.

also jokers does NOT fill and cut anymore.

[RoofRails]

Hate to be devils advocate here but I think theres a little bit of conflicting info in regard to SC inlet porting. I dont think the low end ever really suffers. From my understandings this patent says the bigger SC inlet, the better, with no negatives. Look up the patent, kinda confusing but simplified diagrams say alot.

Per Magnuson Patent 16/465738
Improved inlet port configuration for roots-type supercharger


Some abstracts as I have been reading in hopes of machining my charger moreso. Patent info is in brackets.

In regard to porting inlet ports...
["inlet ports can be enlarged even beyond the sizes we tested to achieve superior performance"]

The past supercharger porters used to say you'd lose low end but here the patent says something otherwise....
["prior art understanding would expect significant losses in performance at the top end (high rpm operation), but as will be explained below, our tests showed surprising results of enhanced performance, not losses"

He refers to inlet porting as volume porting and doesn't suggest it effects the powerband. Where he mentioned the powerband Is the rotor entry point. That's the part that we see best when the rotor pack is out looking down the barrels.

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[BrokeBichB8]

He refers to inlet porting as volume porting and doesn't suggest it effects the powerband. Where he mentioned the powerband Is the rotor entry point. That's the part that we see best when the rotor pack is out looking down the barrels.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Audizine Forum mobile app

I suggest you read the patent section in regard to inlet timing. There's a section that literally says it does not effect low end, and if there was a way to support the rotor bearing with thin spokes to maximize rotor entry it would be purely beneficial. I think the misconception arises from traditional roots blowers design vs this axial supercharger design.

[sepheroth86]

I suggest you read the patent section in regard to inlet timing. There's a section that literally says it does not effect low end, and if there was a way to support the rotor bearing with thin spokes to maximize rotor entry it would be purely beneficial. I think the misconception arises from traditional roots blowers design vs this axial supercharger design.

It appears that SOME low end flow is lost at slower blower speeds.

However, it does seem that opening the inlet a good amount (like many porters seem to do) does make a considerable difference.

[RoofRails]

I suggest you read the patent section in regard to inlet timing. There's a section that literally says it does not effect low end, and if there was a way to support the rotor bearing with thin spokes to maximize rotor entry it would be purely beneficial. I think the misconception arises from traditional roots blowers design vs this axial supercharger design.

Man where did you find that ?? LOL ! That is some next level technical speak. I absolutely see and read what you were referring to but this is a patent request. Magnuson is requesting a patent for a particular inlet design / shape and explaining why it is special and worthy of a patent. The statements made were not generalizations about blowers like the article I posted but were made in reference to their specific rotor inlet shape. Very interesting read for sure.





https://uspto.report/patent/app/20200080558

[BrokeBichB8]

[QUOTE=RoofRails;14804202]Man where did you find that ?? LOL ! That is some next level technical speak. I absolutely see and read what you were referring to but this is a patent request. Magnuson is requesting a patent for a particular inlet design / shape and explaining why it is special and worthy of a patent. The statements made were not generalizations about blowers like the article I posted but were made in reference to their specific rotor inlet shape. Very interesting read for sure.

Paragraph (0077 page 5) ["Inlet port size in this case is limited only by the need to provide support for the rotors..... can be provided by spokes or struts, such as... vertical struts ... and horizontal struts"]

This patent is for the design of the inlet going past conventional port inlet timing shape. It applies to roots twin screw blowers of 160 degree twist, so should apply to ours no?

Its for a patent request for a supercharger exactly same design as ours so it most certainly applies to our charger. and I think the objective of the patent is to limit future designs of chargers and royalties kinda thing.

I was intrigued about the inlet timing and how much material I should remove for my goal of porting. I was comparing our charger to the hellcat one and found the patent kinda supporting the theory. I believe our S4s have much more potential than a $hit 335i with a big turbo pushing 700hp on a stock block. I am not trying to blow my car up, but there is much more race engineering done on the N5X motors than our Audi 3.0t which is a shame. I mean there's not even a wikipedia page for our engines lol. Meanwhile every BMW motor that blows up has one lol.

[RoofRails]

[QUOTE=BrokeBichB8;14804362]

Man where did you find that ?? LOL ! That is some next level technical speak. I absolutely see and read what you were referring to but this is a patent request. Magnuson is requesting a patent for a particular inlet design / shape and explaining why it is special and worthy of a patent. The statements made were not generalizations about blowers like the article I posted but were made in reference to their specific rotor inlet shape. Very interesting read for sure.

Paragraph (0077 page 5) ["Inlet port size in this case is limited only by the need to provide support for the rotors..... can be provided by spokes or struts, such as... vertical struts ... and horizontal struts"]

This patent is for the design of the inlet going past conventional port inlet timing shape. It applies to roots twin screw blowers of 160 degree twist, so should apply to ours no?

Its for a patent request for a supercharger exactly same design as ours so it most certainly applies to our charger. and I think the objective of the patent is to limit future designs of chargers and royalties kinda thing.

I was intrigued about the inlet timing and how much material I should remove for my goal of porting. I was comparing our charger to the hellcat one and found the patent kinda supporting the theory. I believe our S4s have much more potential than a $hit 335i with a big turbo pushing 700hp on a stock block. I am not trying to blow my car up, but there is much more race engineering done on the N5X motors than our Audi 3.0t which is a shame. I mean there's not even a wikipedia page for our engines lol. Meanwhile every BMW motor that blows up has one lol.

Well I'm probably going to have to read that patent a few more times before some of it starts to sink in. I appreciate you sharing it and the discussion. I feel like technical discussions are not a thing here like they use to be. Everyone with a engineering degree probably moved on to a B9 or a S6

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[BrokeBichB8]

[QUOTE=RoofRails;14804396]

Well I'm probably going to have to read that patent a few more times before some of it starts to sink in. I appreciate you sharing it and the discussion. I feel like technical discussions are not a thing here like they use to be. Everyone with a engineering degree probably moved on to a B9 or a S6

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LOL a B8 is all I can afford with gas prices!!! lol I can see that. A lot of smart minds have moved on from the B8 but that doesn't mean the potential of the motor is gone in my opinion. I mean Jay just made new crank pulley bolts like last week so there's certainly something to be done!

I implore you to read it. At first I was doubting what I was reading but searching the pdf version for "inlet timing" and looking at the pictures referenced in the figures really helped the comprehension. I mean half the fun of owning a car is making it better right?? lol

[sepheroth86]

Hellcats use a twin screw blower made by IHI. It would be similar in design to a Whipple.

From what I understood of the Magnuson patent, this testing was done on a TVS2650.

The TVS blowers are NOT twin screw.

Twin screw blowers have a male and female rotor. Ours have identical rotors.

[BrokeBichB8]

Hellcats use a twin screw blower made by IHI. It would be similar in design to a Whipple.

From what I understood of the Magnuson patent, this testing was done on a TVS2650.

The TVS blowers are NOT twin screw.

Twin screw blowers have a male and female rotor. Ours have identical rotors.

Your statement seems to be correct. Albeit confusing wording lol

Our chargers are TVS =Twin Vortices Series. Our chargers are probably closer to having twin screws than the hellcat with two different rotors lol.

[sepheroth86]

Whipple, Lysholm and the IHI units used on Hellcats are twin screw.

Twin screw use interlocking male and female screws. I do not know why they are called twin because they are not identical, my guess is that because they interlock would be why.

The TVS are an updated design of a standard roots blower.