Running Rich on Both Banks

[Belialith]

I got both banks running rich, I have already ruled out the HPFPs I am waiting for the cam followers to show up to see if that will fix it but judging by how the ones in the car look I have my doubts.
Don't have much experience messing with VCDS but I have access to it. The little bit of information that I can find specifically for just running rich says the thrust/pressure sensor. Possibly the PCV?

P0172/P0175

[Belialith]

I cleared the codes just trying to see if I could get it to do it again and it has done about 100mi with no issues but have noticed that just barely giving it throttle sometimes (only noticed this when it was cold) it seems to be down on power/in the wrong gear. No codes when it does this and nothing that I can see on VCDS (however I am very new to it). No other performance hits and nothing sounds/smells weird.

[hahnmgh63]

What year and model would help? Evap canister purge valve may have failed and back up extra fuel fumes? Engine Coolant sensor failed and keeping the injection system in a cold start enrichment cycle? The first will give you a separate fault code most likely as well as the second, most likely depending on the failure mode. Log the temp sensor in Vagcom. Go to the Engine Module in Vagcom and start going through the measuring blocks and there are a lot of items you can log, each model of engine has different groups so I can't say what group number you need to look at but you can page up through them.

[Belialith]

2014 RS5, I will have to see if I can see anything or get it to give me the codes again. I haven't noticed anything weird with the car or codes in about 100mi~ now. Will have to look to see how to log temps and what not through VCDS as not done that yet.
Thanks.

[hahnmgh63]

Well, you're not on the boat by yourself. If you search the forum here you will find in the last few years there have been quite a few RS5 owners with Rich and Lean faults, sometimes both faults on the same car. Some have reported their fixes and some posts have just died off. The Fuel Pressure sensor (latest part #06J-906-054-B) has been an issue for many and it's not cheap at $200 and the install isn't easy either. To get at it you either have to pull the intake manifold or you need to pull off the upper Aluminum Cooling pipe to get it out, Intake manifold is the best way. Definitely need to do some logs before you go that route and there are VCDS groups to log for both High & Low fuel pressure. I don't have my RS5 engine in the car otherwise I could hook up VCDS and let you know exactly what to log, maybe someone else on here can chime in. Here are a few previous posts too.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ing-Issue-Help
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-hard-to-start

[Belialith]

Yeah I did some digging and found nothing definitive there are some odd ball ones where it ended up being the injector wiring harness and cam position sensors and what not. I am too new to VCDS to really dive in exactly as people have asked for logs and what not will need to figure that out at some point.
I have ruled out the HPFPs being the cause I have the Camshaft followers on order so when those show up will throw those in to see if anything changes as I was able to get those pretty quick and they're easy to do.

There a good guide or video showing the process for the Fuel Pressure Sensor?

These faults seem to be any number of things.

[TontoLoidRS5]

If is the loom, wiring or CPS on one of the sides, is it clear why codes are thrown for both banks? The wiring connecting CPS etc clearly sits in a "hot spot". Pull the wiring to the side slightly and switch off while idling!

[Belialith]

I just got back from a work trip and I am going to see if these cam followers do anything to fix it.

As for why the codes are being thrown I got nothing, I was thinking about testing the loom but need to see if I can test it without having it down for multiple days.

The cost of a new loom and CPS' aren't too bad so may just buy that if it persists. Since this is all getting billed to not me now.

There a part # for the wiring harness that is usually effected?

[Belialith]

So went ahead and just put new com followers in since I already had them, old ones don't look bad not like what is usually seen as "bad".

Did find that one of the hoses running along the drivers side intake filter box has been rubbing through and a band aid applied to it previously.

Went ahead and poked around the wiring to see if there was anything that was out of place and couldn't see anything there, some of the routing for these bundles has me concerned about longevity of the loom as a whole since they're so close to the cylinder heads.

The wear on the hose is directly under the screw for the intake.

https://imgur.com/8qZVQYE
https://imgur.com/NWaX1IS

[TontoLoidRS5]

Seems fine. Looks the same on my car, that's the other padding bit only from what I can see.

[Belialith]

So driven it another 500~mi after taking it on a small vacation. Noticed something interesting. On the hotter days it would try to die at just about every stop however on cooler mornings and days it wouldn't even go below idle. I am too unfamiliar with VCDS and logging to see actual temps but I don't even know where to go with this information.
The only things I would have thought were the issues before now make no sense. The last few things that people have found to fix this was the low pressure fuel sensor, injector wiring harness and cam sensors. None of which should be affected by ambient air temps.

[Belialith]

https://pastebin.com/8zKhSagm

This is the pastebin for the full log. Multiple instances of the too rich, doesn't seem to be giving me too lean codes anymore.

[Belialith]

Well after 8mo it seems to be back but isn't affecting drivability at all. Beginning to suspect maybe injectors and time for carbon clean. Anyone know of rebuilds for the OEM injectors? Or did any aftermarket ones end up being worth while? I am at around 68k~ miles now after a few long road trips in it.
May also be a vacuum leak? Anyone have any good points to check, it looks like the vacuum system on these cars isn't too complex.

[hahnmgh63]

What about more simple things like the MAP sensor? If it thinks airflow is higher than actual it will deliver too much fuel for the actual pressure and end up being rich. O2 sensor and Injectors and HPFP regulators can cause it to go rich but both banks pretty much at the same time is a slim coincidence. Coolant temp sensor could keep it in a rich running mode, acting like cold start enrichment when the car is warm. A few things you or someone could data log with Vagcom. I can pull mine up tomorrow, but obviously Engine module, then I think you go into Basic settings and log etc... I'll take a look in the morning as I start mine up to head to work if I have the chance.

[Belialith]

It does it mostly after startup, I will see if I can't log it any no guarantee of the fault showing up though. Usually get the very small evap leak detected in the mornings and then sometimes in the afternoon headed home I get the running rich on one bank or both banks. Never consistent. 3 or 4 times now it has done it in this pattern.
If it is the MAP sensor may be another root issue though. Will pull it off over the weekend maybe and take a look at it if anything I know if it gets oil on it that can cause some issues.

[hahnmgh63]

I probably have a good used MAP sensor I could send you for testing purposes. Long story but I have a some RS5 spare parts of all kinds :)

[Belialith]

Not quite at that point yet. May take you up on it anyways.
I am noticing on coming to stops the car is hesitating and the RPM's drop a fair bit like it is stalling but only is doing it when it is warmer out.
Not quite sure what the warmer temps correlate to, but the hesitation and RPM drops seem to point me towards, injectors, coils, spark plugs, MAP Sensor and maybe intake filter?
Anything ring a bell specifically with that? I did have the EVAP system looked at and repaired under some recall warranty about them about 7mo ago. Then I didn't have any CEL's until recently. Wondering if it is temperature sensitive.

[Belialith]

Definitely confirmed when it is warmer out that it does it. No issues on cooler days and predictable on warmer days. Only one weird scenario where I got on it a little bit to pass someone on a short pass zone and it gave a rich on bank 2 code when I was decelerating.
This kind of makes me think other issues than what I was thinking before? At this point probably just going to go get the Intake valves cleaned and while there just look over a few things. I guess list for me would be PCV, Vacuum System, Fuel injectors and Intake valves and throttle bodies clean?
It isn't really hurting performance any and responds just as fine and no smoke or any other weird symptoms other than some stalling when coming to a complete stop and the CEL.

[Belialith]

So these are the latest faults and when they activated. This is what I get consistently. I have also had some others but that seems to be a one time thing. Happened on a cold day and cleared after I warmed the car up so I am thinking it was an issue with it being very cold out.

16501 - Fuel Trim; Bank 2
P0175 00 [100] - System Too Rich
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 110722 km
Date: 2023.05.24
Time: 18:07:30

Engine RPM: 1424.50 /min
Normed load value: 50.6 %
Vehicle speed: 64 km/h
Coolant temperature: 93 °C
Intake air temperature: 29 °C
Ambient air pressure: 970 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.253 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 80
CAN status - engine control module-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - transmission control module-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - brake control module 1-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - brake control module 2-Bits 0-7: 0
selected gear-Bits 0-7: 7
Cruise control switch actuation-Bits 0-7: 0
Cruise control switch actuation-Bits 0-7: 0

16516 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1
P0172 00 [100] - System Too Rich
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 110722 km
Date: 2023.05.24
Time: 18:07:28

Engine RPM: 1417.50 /min
Normed load value: 45.5 %
Vehicle speed: 64 km/h
Coolant temperature: 93 °C
Intake air temperature: 28 °C
Ambient air pressure: 970 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.159 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 80
CAN status - engine control module-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - transmission control module-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - brake control module 1-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - brake control module 2-Bits 0-7: 0
selected gear-Bits 0-7: 6
Cruise control switch actuation-Bits 0-7: 0
Cruise control switch actuation-Bits 0-7: 0

10530 - EVAP System
P0456 00 [175] - Very Small Leak Detected
MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 110681 km
Date: 2023.05.24
Time: 06:26:51

Engine RPM: 1427.50 /min
Normed load value: 63.5 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 27 °C
Intake air temperature: 21 °C
Ambient air pressure: 970 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 13.923 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
AFS dm: 115.8 kg/h
Mean injection time: 1.500 ms
Engine operating condition: Idle
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 5

Here is the second set of codes:

2734 - Throttle Valve Actuator Module (J338)
P2106 00 [101] - Power Limited due to Malfunction
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 104708 km
Date: 2023.02.24
Time: 06:23:56

Engine RPM: 1022.00 /min
Normed load value: 20.0 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 26 °C
Intake air temperature: -13 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.371 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
AFS dm: 29.5 kg/h
Mean injection time: 1.265 ms
Engine operating condition: Idle
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 5

2753 - Throttle Valve Controller
P1545 00 [229] - Malfunction
MIL ON - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 104708 km
Date: 2023.02.24
Time: 06:23:56

Engine RPM: 1022.00 /min
Normed load value: 20.0 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 26 °C
Intake air temperature: -13 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.371 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
AFS dm: 29.5 kg/h
Mean injection time: 1.265 ms
Engine operating condition: Idle
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 5

2754 - Throttle Valve Controller
P1545 00 [100] - Malfunction
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 104708 km
Date: 2023.02.24
Time: 06:23:51

Engine RPM: 801.50 /min
Normed load value: 25.9 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 25 °C
Intake air temperature: -13 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.371 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
AFS dm: 30.4 kg/h
Mean injection time: 1.456 ms
Engine operating condition: Idle
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 5

This is the other set from 7~ months ago.

16501 - Fuel Trim; Bank 2
P0175 00 [175] - System Too Rich
MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 5
Mileage: 89896 km
Date: 2022.10.05
Time: 15:16:45

Engine RPM: 1490.50 /min
Normed load value: 25.9 %
Vehicle speed: 68 km/h
Coolant temperature: 73 °C
Intake air temperature: 23 °C
Ambient air pressure: 960 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.347 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
CAN status - engine control module-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - transmission control module-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - brake control module 1-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - brake control module 2-Bits 0-7: 0
selected gear-Bits 0-7: 7
Cruise control switch actuation-Bits 0-7: 0
Cruise control switch actuation-Bits 0-7: 0

16516 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1
P0172 00 [175] - System Too Rich
MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 8
Mileage: 89896 km
Date: 2022.10.05
Time: 15:16:45

Engine RPM: 1490.50 /min
Normed load value: 25.9 %
Vehicle speed: 68 km/h
Coolant temperature: 73 °C
Intake air temperature: 23 °C
Ambient air pressure: 960 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.347 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
CAN status - engine control module-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - transmission control module-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - brake control module 1-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - brake control module 2-Bits 0-7: 0
selected gear-Bits 0-7: 7
Cruise control switch actuation-Bits 0-7: 0
Cruise control switch actuation-Bits 0-7: 0

10530 - EVAP System
P0456 00 [101] - Very Small Leak Detected
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 90766 km
Date: 2022.10.12
Time: 09:00:31

Engine RPM: 1446.50 /min
Normed load value: 54.1 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 24 °C
Intake air temperature: 14 °C
Ambient air pressure: 960 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 13.900 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
AFS dm: 102.3 kg/h
Mean injection time: 1.436 ms
Engine operating condition: Idle
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 5

9024 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96)
P0106 00 [038] - Implausible Signal
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 90790 km
Date: 2022.10.12
Time: 09:21:01

Engine RPM: 3775.50 /min
Normed load value: 15.3 %
Vehicle speed: 145 km/h
Coolant temperature: 95 °C
Intake air temperature: 5 °C
Ambient air pressure: 960 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.324 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Heated oxygen sensor bank 1: sensor 1: resistance: 293.44 Ohm
Heated oxygen sensor bank 1: sensor 1: activation: 25.247 %
Outside air temperature via CAN: 14.3 °C
Oxygen sensor 1 bank 1 ceramic temp: 787.70 °C

And again some more from 8~ months ago:

22830 - Fuel Trim; Bank 2
P0175 00 [032] - System Too Rich
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 88132 km
Date: 2022.09.10
Time: 13:19:42

Engine RPM: 2186.00 /min
Normed load value: 56.5 %
Vehicle speed: 100 km/h
Coolant temperature: 99 °C
Intake air temperature: 3 °C
Ambient air pressure: 970 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.371 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 35
AFS dm: 154.3 kg/h
Mean injection time: 1.200 ms
Engine operating condition: Part throttle
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 6

22656 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1
P0172 00 [032] - System Too Rich
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 87529 km
Date: 2022.09.02
Time: 06:34:31

Engine RPM: 2218.50 /min
Normed load value: 52.5 %
Vehicle speed: 101 km/h
Coolant temperature: 100 °C
Intake air temperature: 8 °C
Ambient air pressure: 960 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.371 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 26
AFS dm: 157.5 kg/h
Mean injection time: 1.242 ms
Engine operating condition: Part throttle
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 6

16501 - Fuel Trim; Bank 2
P0175 00 [175] - System Too Rich
MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 20
Mileage: 87439 km
Date: 2022.08.29
Time: 06:27:40

Engine RPM: 2463.50 /min
Normed load value: 63.1 %
Vehicle speed: 59 km/h
Coolant temperature: 66 °C
Intake air temperature: 9 °C
Ambient air pressure: 970 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.182 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
CAN status - engine control module-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - transmission control module-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - brake control module 1-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - brake control module 2-Bits 0-7: 0
selected gear-Bits 0-7: 4
Cruise control switch actuation-Bits 0-7: 0
Cruise control switch actuation-Bits 0-7: 0

16516 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1
P0172 00 [175] - System Too Rich
MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 20
Mileage: 87439 km
Date: 2022.08.29
Time: 06:27:40

Engine RPM: 2436.00 /min
Normed load value: 64.3 %
Vehicle speed: 58 km/h
Coolant temperature: 66 °C
Intake air temperature: 9 °C
Ambient air pressure: 970 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.159 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
CAN status - engine control module-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - transmission control module-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - brake control module 1-Bits 0-7: 0
CAN status - brake control module 2-Bits 0-7: 0
selected gear-Bits 0-7: 4
Cruise control switch actuation-Bits 0-7: 0
Cruise control switch actuation-Bits 0-7: 0

10530 - EVAP System
P0456 00 [096] - Very Small Leak Detected
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 87616 km
Date: 2022.09.03
Time: 08:49:36

Engine RPM: 1438.00 /min
Normed load value: 49.8 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 27 °C
Intake air temperature: 22 °C
Ambient air pressure: 970 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 13.829 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 27
AFS dm: 90.9 kg/h
Mean injection time: 1.414 ms
Engine operating condition: Idle
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 5

9024 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96)
P0106 00 [038] - Implausible Signal
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 88785 km
Date: 2022.09.24
Time: 11:14:45

Engine RPM: 2594.00 /min
Normed load value: 16.1 %
Vehicle speed: 98 km/h
Coolant temperature: 95 °C
Intake air temperature: 5 °C
Ambient air pressure: 970 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.088 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Heated oxygen sensor bank 1: sensor 1: resistance: 300.47 Ohm
Heated oxygen sensor bank 1: sensor 1: activation: 32.480 %
Outside air temperature via CAN: 21.8 °C
Oxygen sensor 1 bank 1 ceramic temp: 784.80 °C

It happens so infrequently and it hadn't done it for months after I had gotten the evap system fixed through a dealer for a recall(?).
I know there was talk of the G71(may be thinking of another sensor) that was brought up in another thread for something similar but I would think it would be more consistent.

[hahnmgh63]

Well I think you're right about the Cold weather affecting the throttle body. It may be getting a little weak for a little oil/sludge on it and harened/thickened in the cold weather and caused a slow response.
As for the Rich faults, did you ever swap out the MAP sensor. You had the fault in the past just not getting it now but who knows? Not a huge worry as a little rich is better than a little lean and you're generally only getting it at lower RPM's 1400~2100.

[Belialith]

I haven't, I figure MAP sensor swap and I will have a local shop do a carbon clean here in a few weeks. The appointments been made.
03C906051F is right for the map sensor correct? Does it matter OEM or not on them? Price difference is $100.

[hahnmgh63]

That's the one. I'd say anyone as long as it's not made in China :)
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...sor-0261230234

[Belialith]

MAP sensors been replaced for a little bit and the issue still persists. I didn't notice anything wrong on it really but it had some oil/carbon buildup on it. I have my carbon cleaning soon so just going to see what that does or if they find anything while there. Getting Lean and Rich codes now. Got a rough start up in the warmup procedure then it settled down and ran fine then gave a CEL for Rich and Lean. Not sure what to make of it.

[Belialith]

So carbon clean solved the rich and lean codes. Which I am glad it did but my issue of stalling is persisting. Got the very small leak detected for the evap system. Looks like part #: 06E-906-517-A for the purge solenoid is a common failure. But I also see part #: 037-906-283-C as more specifically for the purge so which is it? Also how are you able to check what may be the failed part? Also where are these located?