what was the outcome of upgrading the to the Golf r intake cam

[rfelker]

rebuilding the head and engine. and I have the softer cam. Price of the ugraded oem and the golf r are the same. Will be going with ATP 450hp turbo kit or the CTS Hydrid k04. From research seems like a no brainer to upgrade to the golf r cam but want to make sure there wasnt any issues long term.
thanks

[texasboy21]

From what I remember and only differences are on the fueling side of things, not valve lift or duration. The lobe that follows the fuel pump is larger on the S3/R cam, and I believe folks have reported increased rail pressure.

[rfelker]

Thats what I gathered reading the old post. Also from reading the post seems like you can run that cam with the stock HPFP internals and get the same outcome if you ran autotech etc internal upgrades. Would be awsome if I could get the same effect just running stock hpfp. I do have 2 hpfps so maybe I will try it. Need new cam anyway so wouldnt hurt. Emailed motoza to see if they can tune for it. Might be over kill for the CTS Hyrid ko4 but not if I go for the ATP kit. Already running the R8 controller with autotech internals and rs4 PRV so should be good other wise.

[Jayz691]

It'll help, the s3/golf r cam has about 25% more lift(6.5mm instead of 5.25mm). So won't give as much as an upgradeded hofp(50% more fuel). But will work to get more fuel, for a bigger turbo setup. Ive been looking for one, but only finding genuine. Everyone is out of the AMC cams.. They were $200, 6 months ago. Should have grabbed one then.

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[rfelker]

Jay-USP motorsports has them.
.https://www.uspmotorsports.com/Golf-...-2.0T-FSI.html

[canadianA4B7]

Lobe design has no dip in the faces of the lobes (more like an NA cam then a factory boosted cam as manufactures biggest concern as always is tree huggers). The golf R has a more raised section between the wide end and the tip. I’d say more duration based on actual measurements then lift but it depends on what tool is used to say 1 or the other. Either way the amount of time the valve is open is longer.

The adjustments required in tune usually a bit of cylinder filling, a bit between 1500-3000 rpm on the throttle VS. maps. Have idle raised above 850 rpm and the claimed idle issues do not exist.

[FatMongo]

I have the Golf cam in my silver car - I dont notice any difference an have had no issue running it on an otherwise stock 2.0 BPG.

[Jayz691]

Jay-USP motorsports has them.
.https://www.uspmotorsports.com/Golf-...-2.0T-FSI.html

Yeah, seen those(oem/oes), theyre $100 more than the AMC is. But the AMC are out of stock everywhere..

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[rfelker]

I dont think the price is bad. But then again anything with these cars start at 300.00 and up.

[EvolutionArmory]

The golf R intake cam has more fuel pump lift, the cam lobes themselves have the same lift and duration as the stock cam.

The Golf R exhaust cam is where the added performance comes from, not the intake cam.

[EvolutionArmory]

More to add about the Golf R cams. Unless you’re building a super aggressive K04 or big turbo car you will not see any benefits from the cams or any benefit you do get will be very hard to see or prove. Any fueling increase the intake cam gives you is well within the ability that an upgraded HPFP can give you. Unless you’re running like 150 bar+ of rail pressure, that extra fuel pump lift isn’t really necessary. Plus, you’ll need to be able to custom tune that map to pull out the benefits. On an off the shelf tune that’s only requesting 130 bar or less, it’s really not necessary.

The exhaust cam is probably more beneficial but the difference between the stock cam profile and Golf R cam profile is very minimal. As far as cam upgrades go, it’s a very mild upgrade. Any increase here is good I guess but it’s very hard to quantify the result it gives.


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[rfelker]

Evo-the plan is CTS Hybrid k04 or the ATP kits. But think I am going with the CTS now because of the mods I have to do to have ATP kits work with a my 34HFC. If I can push the CTS to 400 plus the w/m goal is 425 450. Being that my intake cam is the old one and the new upgraded one is same price as the golf r seems like I should go golf r. I have been looking for a golf r exhaust cam but havent found one lower than 700.00. To go along with the cams wanted to port match. Will do the same on the intake side with either the CTS intake or IE intake. Reason being want to run 5 w/m nozzles with one at the intercooler. Am I way off here or does that sound good? as for block using my stock BPG pistons new rings and IE rifle drilled rods. The head will be rebuilt with new valves etc.

[EvolutionArmory]

Head work does almost nothing on a K04. The K04 exhaust manifold and turbo exhaust housing is the restriction, not the head. Any head work is useless if the turbo can’t flow the air volume the head work might give you. It’s like trying to pour a gallon of water through a straw VS trying to flow a liter of water through the same straw. You’re only going to get the amount of flow the straw will let you get. Does that make sense? The K04 exhaust housing is the straw and the engine is the amount of water in this scenario. The only worthwhile head work for a K04 is maybe the valve springs and only because a K04 can generate some big back pressure because of how restrictive the exhaust manifold is.



Keep a K04 build simple and appreciate the car for what it is. A quick spooling 270-300 WHP car. The reason my car is so successful and still runs is because I kept it simple and picked a good turbo and a even better OTS tune.

If you want power more power; don’t run a K04.

Keep it simple and you have success.


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[Jayz691]

The golf R intake cam has more fuel pump lift, the cam lobes themselves have the same lift and duration as the stock cam.

The Golf R exhaust cam is where the added performance comes from, not the intake cam.

I think hes just replacing his intake cam anyway, so why not get one that'll give better fueling capabilities.. Kinda like I was thinking, when they were $200 anyway. My hpfp lobe is worn some, I checked with a dial indicator gauge, best I could. So will get replaced sooner or later. RN just trying to get everything needed to get my rods in. Budget is tight, lol. So cam may have to wait.

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[EvolutionArmory]

If there’s no way for him to adjust the fuel map of his tune, running the R cam could give him problems.

For instance, if he runs the cam with no HPFP upgrade, he could run into a situation where there isn’t enough fuel pressure available with just the R cam’s added lift. This would depend on how much pressure the tune asks for.

If he runs the R cam with a HPFP upgrade, he might run into too much fuel pressure if he can’t have his tune adjusted for it. Hopefully the tune will just see the added pressure and cut duty cycle and compensate for the added lift. In theory it should just lower HPFP duty cycle all the time because it will be able to hit requested easier but who knows what could happen.

If it’s an off the shelf tune, it was probably written for a stock cam and HPFP upgrade, not for the R cam or the R cam with a HPFP.

Just looking at a possible negative scenario you can avoid by not installing a part this car doesn’t need. Know what I mean?

The Golf R intake cam has never been a necessary mod since HPFP upgrades exist. My whole philosophy is don’t do mods you don’t need. Less is more, especially when there isn’t any data that says the R cam is beneficial in any way by itself.




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[rfelker]

I emailed motoza tuning have not heard anything back about tuning for the R cam. But I would think they could tune for it. I did find the exhaust cam. For 450.00 I would have matching set. think Im going to do it. Needed the intake cam anyway.

I am all for good stable platform but I want alittle more than 270-300whp Im looking for around 375whp and anything after will be a bonus. Thats why I want to go with the CTS hydrid instead of the k04. Would run one of the ATP kits but really dont want to dick around with custom shit to pass inspections. Unless someone can sell me all the parts needed for plug and play and still keep my HFC.

[EvolutionArmory]

You’ll just be another person who tried to get more out of turbo than it’s capable of and be disappointed with the results just like everyone else. Sorry to be a downer but someone has to be a realist.

K04 hybrids are the biggest sham out of any turbo ever marketed. Bigger turbo wheels don’t do anything better when the manifold and housings they are in/on can’t flow the air volume.

Instead of maxing out a tiny turbo so it doesn’t do anything well, why don’t you pick a bigger turbo that’s capable of flowing the air volume needed for that power?

One of the small EFR’s for instance. Or a small GTX. Anything other than a K04.

What I find funny and sad at the same time is that it’s 2022 and people are still trying to get unreasonable performance out of a B7 with turbos that have constantly proven that they don’t perform like they think they do.

There’s almost 2 decades of data of what works and what doesn’t. Know what I mean?


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[rfelker]

I have no problem going bigger. Just dont want to dick around with custom shit. If the ATP kits where true plug and play and I could keep my HFC we wouldnt be talking right now.. My real issue isnt spending the money my issue is inspections. NYS is getting worse every day. We not even allowed to upgraded the exhaust now. Its a failure. Cannot code out o2s for car is red flagged. and yes they look for cats. Doesnt matter if its redneck shops for the canned shops. All the same.

[EvolutionArmory]

It’s getting harder everywhere. Not passing state inspection for having a test pipe is what pushed me over the top to buy a B8 S4. My B7 is parked until I put a HFC in


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[Jayz691]

You should be able to run your HFC if you just have a vband welded on. The ATP turbos have an adapter flange off the turbo, to a vband. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to figure out. The kp4x does flow better than their reg k04, ive seen plenty of comparisons on other platforms. Now enough of a difference to get near 400hp, that can't say, cuz not enough people running them on b7's. Theres 1 guy I chat with a lot, and been trying to get some logs from him, but hes been having other issue with his car. Hopefully he'll have it straightened out soon, and can get some actual data of the k04x on a b7.

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[rfelker]

Evo- if I buy another car it will be a truck. Could never part with the b7 or the TT.

Jay- let me know about the K04x Id like to know the results. Im shooting for 400-425hp with w/m. I still have time which ever turbo I get it will be last part of the build.

[Jayz691]

Will do, the guy is waiting on a new TB and pedal, hes having TP issues. Hes got a fully built engine, IE intake, blah blah, buy should all be relatively close. I know guys on the mk6 page are hitting 320-330g's maf, as apposed to most with reg k04's hitting high 200's(280-300). So 40-50hp difference(or so). Different platform, so #'s won't be the same. Just speaking of the difference. We'll see..

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[EvolutionArmory]

MK 6 GTI has a completely different engine than us so if they have a GTI I’m not surprised that they can get 320+ GS. Only the MK6 R got our engine.

You have to also factor in that we have different ECU’s with different factory limits in the software.

The biggest mistake people make is thinking that they will make similar power as the GTI and R guys with the same level mods but it isn’t ever close.


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[Jayz691]

MK 6 GTI has a completely different engine than us so if they have a GTI I’m not surprised that they can get 320+ GS. Only the MK6 R got our engine.

You have to also factor in that we have different ECU’s with different factory limits in the software.

The biggest mistake people make is thinking that they will make similar power as the GTI and R guys with the same level mods but it isn’t ever close.


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I'm not saying the same power, I specified this. I was saying the difference in flow between a reg k04, and the k04x. Don't matter as much which engine, I'm just talking differences. Theres quite a few people running them on that platform, so there good info. Not so much yet on the b7.. So just talking comparisond between the 2 turbos..

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[rfelker]

I also think there is some b8 guys running them with success but I have to search again. if I can reach 375 on 93oct and 400 on water/meth that would be fine. remember its a fwd 6speed so that will be scary with that hp anyway. Sad my wifes car makes 320 with just a tune. Her TT is a 225 with just exhaust and refreshed engine. Plenty fast for her and it handles like a go cart. If they wernet so girly I would own one. hahahahaha

[EvolutionArmory]

A K04 is the absolute worse turbo to use if you want 400 crank HP on a B7 and is a good way to set yourself up for failure before you even start.

Look at the Loba build going on right now. He’s hitting over 300 wheel but his dyno graph looks like shit and his car can’t function properly over 6000 RPM.

Expecting to hit 400 crank with a K04 without using E85 is like trying to run a marathon on one leg.

The only car to have that much power on a K04 and actually run right is Seal’s E85 K04 and that car took a ton of work but every now and then you’re gonna have to rebuild your fuel system. 🤣

Pick a bigger turbo and actually hit your goal or lower your goal and enjoy a K04 for what it is.


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[EvolutionArmory]

The most frustrating part about the B7 subforum is seeing guys who have been here for a long time making the same mistakes over and over again.


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[vce1232000]

KO4's are designed to peak out from low to mid range torque. The flow just isnt there on the higher end to accomplish the end results your looking for without a huge investment & trying to pass federal & state emissions imo. As mentioned the bottle neck is in the KO4 housing itself. There lies the problem. My KO4 avant is a fun car to . But it aint gonna ever be a car. My SQ5 with a stage 1 tune will run circles around it. & I spent a whole less in modifying it.

[EvolutionArmory]

KO4's are designed to peak out from low to mid range torque. The flow just isnt there on the higher end to accomplish the end results your looking for without a huge investment & trying to pass federal & state emissions imo. As mentioned the bottle neck is in the KO4 housing itself. There lies the problem. My KO4 avant is a fun car to . But it aint gonna ever be a car. My SQ5 with a stage 1 tune will run circles around it. & I spent a whole less in modifying it.

I’ve always wondered how you car really runs being a complete APR system. You probably have the best performing K04 car here and don’t even know it 🤣🤣


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[rfelker]

peer pressure sucks hahahaha
Ran the piss out of the TT this morning. Really want my car back.

[boostin20v]

If there’s no way for him to adjust the fuel map of his tune, running the R cam could give him problems.

For instance, if he runs the cam with no HPFP upgrade, he could run into a situation where there isn’t enough fuel pressure available with just the R cam’s added lift. This would depend on how much pressure the tune asks for.

If he runs the R cam with a HPFP upgrade, he might run into too much fuel pressure if he can’t have his tune adjusted for it. Hopefully the tune will just see the added pressure and cut duty cycle and compensate for the added lift. In theory it should just lower HPFP duty cycle all the time because it will be able to hit requested easier but who knows what could happen.

If it’s an off the shelf tune, it was probably written for a stock cam and HPFP upgrade, not for the R cam or the R cam with a HPFP.

Just looking at a possible negative scenario you can avoid by not installing a part this car doesn’t need. Know what I mean?

The Golf R intake cam has never been a necessary mod since HPFP upgrades exist. My whole philosophy is don’t do mods you don’t need. Less is more, especially when there isn’t any data that says the R cam is beneficial in any way by itself.




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I installed the R cam due to damage to the OE cam. Ran with OE HPFP before swapping to a Autotech piston in the OE HPFP housing and running with the 034 K04 software. Zero issues with the R cam on either setup. Was it worth it? probably not had I not needed to swap it already.

[EvolutionArmory]

Good data. Thanks.


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[vce1232000]

I’ve always wondered how you car really runs being a complete APR system. You probably have the best performing K04 car here and don’t even know it 🤣🤣


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Maybe not the fastest. but its dependably consistently reliable ....lol

[rfelker]

has anyone that you heard of running both the exhaust and intake came. Shit for 200.00 more no brainer to get the exhaust cam

[AudiB720TS]

has anyone that you heard of running both the exhaust and intake came. Shit for 200.00 more no brainer to get the exhaust cam

I’m running both cams.

I’d say only do this if your stock cam(s) are worn. Between installing new identical cams and R cams, I’d do the latter if I also budget for adjusting the tune(…).

Doing it ‘just because’ isn’t going to be worth it given the amount of work and moneys involved.

[rfelker]

AudiB-work and money? I already have the head off and cams removed. Not that hard. and yeah intake is worn exhaust cam is not. But if I am replacing valves etc anyway cannot hurt. Plus my tuner can add them into the tune.

[AudiB720TS]

AudiB-work and money? I already have the head off and cams removed. Not that hard. and yeah intake is worn exhaust cam is not. But if I am replacing valves etc anyway cannot hurt. Plus my tuner can add them into the tune.

Well then, what are you waiting for!? Get to it.