Front subframe replacement considerations

[cesca]

hi everyone! will be replacing the Front Subframe to my: 2004 Audi A4 (B6) Avant Wagon 3.0L V6 M/T Quattro, *wo sport suspension (mfr no.: 8E0399313BD)

1) Are there any sources for a new OEM front subframe?
Background: AUDI dealer sources it for $1.3K+. In event of no OEM options will purchase the original through (place)

2) Anything I should swap out or consider at the same time--and because all parts have been in there for 18+ years. This has been my daily car since purchase.
Some of the things I thought might be worthwhile. Do you recommend swapping any and why -- and do you swear by a specific manufacturer?
- subframe is crimped so rustproof it first (swear by a rustproof brand for this new part?)
- new bolts
- engine bracket mount
- motor mount
- what else

Thanks so much, I value your opinion

[A4SoftWalker]

I'm in the same boat with you but rebuilding my front subframe by replacing the bushings. Depending upon last date of replacement, I recommend both lower control arms and the engine mounts. They all tie in there. I refreshed my control arms last Dec. Held off on the lowers because of my impending subframe refresh.

One of our members has a thread on here with a YouTube link of when he refreshed his front subframe bushings for those that are so inclined.

Also check on front snub mount if you are not yet polyurethane.

[EuroxS4]

If your willing to spend that kind of money might as well get this. But I would check first make sure its gonna fit your specific vehicle in terms of drive train

https://www.verkline.com/shop/all-pa...r-hilfsrahmen/

[walky_talky20]

Personally, I would never really consider buying this particular part new from Audi. There are tons of these available in junkyards that are in absolutely mint condition. I would get one of those, do the welding modification or what-have-you, and carry on. Spending half the entire value of the car on a part that is quite plentiful and has zero moving parts sounds like a big waste of money to me. Admittedly, I am a cheapskate. /IMHO

[Cybersombosis]

Haha. I am a cheapskate too Keith! I’d prefer to buy an entire parts car for $500 and part the rest of it out to get the part you want and upgrade any part that your car is lacking and make some money helping others in the community doing the same thing you are. We just junked a garage kept S4 shell after stripping it that would be a perfect candidate for you. In addition to a junk yard, you could find someone parting a car out.

[cesca]

If your willing to spend that kind of money might as well get this. But I would check first make sure its gonna fit your specific vehicle in terms of drive train

https://www.verkline.com/shop/all-pa...r-hilfsrahmen/

that costs more so, no

[cesca]

I'm in the same boat with you but rebuilding my front subframe by replacing the bushings. Depending upon last date of replacement, I recommend both lower control arms and the engine mounts. They all tie in there. I refreshed my control arms last Dec. Held off on the lowers because of my impending subframe refresh.

One of our members has a thread on here with a YouTube link of when he refreshed his front subframe bushings for those that are so inclined.

Also check on front snub mount if you are not yet polyurethane.

snub mount, yeah thats a good idea, might as well. thanks

northeast car, subframe is rusted and there’s a 1” hole on one end, bad. I ordered it last week and I expect it to take a few weeks to arrive

[cesca]

Personally, I would never really consider buying this particular part new from Audi. There are tons of these available in junkyards that are in absolutely mint condition. I would get one of those, do the welding modification or what-have-you, and carry on. Spending half the entire value of the car on a part that is quite plentiful and has zero moving parts sounds like a big waste of money to me. Admittedly, I am a cheapskate. /IMHO

ok cool so, who would you call, a local yard or is there a national yard that represents several and are also reputable to send you a cross-checked part?

this is the type of information i was looking for. last year the same subframe was used is in 2008 so, nearly 15yrs in a yard. i suppose shipping will be a few hundred depending

[Kevin C]

Car-part.com Any parts from AZ, CA or the PNW are typically pristine. Sport suspension have welded seams. S4 bushings will improve steering feel.

[shurur9]

POR15

[cesca]

Car-part.com Any parts from AZ, CA or the PNW are typically pristine. Sport suspension have welded seams. S4 bushings will improve steering feel.

that site is Wild—thanks! and thanks too for noting preferred states as i tried them first. have a few emails out and hope to identify one next week. i saw so many A/T listed, i didnt know people really bought them

mine isnt sport suspension tho and i thought i read somewhere (i may be wrong) that it has to be modified if you do and i cant do that. also audi uses same crimped subframe image for wo-sport and with

if i can score a used used one, and i think i will, i will def look into s4 bushing replacements instead; i would not have thought of that, thanks again

+ the place i ordered the new one *surprisingly still hasn’t put the order thru, and its been a week. once i get thru, hope to cancel it.

[cesca]

POR15

i have seen that in a few places on this site. have you used it before? for a *used subframe, would you still recommend the preclean and etching (called something else but serves similar function) steps that POR15 recommends for newer painted surfaces?

[Kevin C]

that site is Wild—thanks! and thanks too for noting preferred states as i tried them first. have a few emails out and hope to identify one next week. i saw so many A/T listed, i didnt know people really bought them

mine isnt sport suspension tho and i thought i read somewhere (i may be wrong) that it has to be modified if you do and i cant do that. also audi uses same crimped subframe image for wo-sport and with

if i can score a used used one, and i think i will, i will def look into s4 bushing replacements instead; i would not have thought of that, thanks again

+ the place i ordered the new one *surprisingly still hasn’t put the order thru, and its been a week. once i get thru, hope to cancel it.

I have sport suspension and while mine has the same crimps they are also welded. From what I have seen the standard versions are crimped but not seam welded. The AT version will have the extra mount holes for the transmission. It you have a stick they just don't get used. From what I have read plenty of people have used a auto cross member on a stick without issue. It's what you get when you do a auto to stick conversion. Factory S4 bushings are pricy. I had been getting mine from a source in Latvia (cars245). Slow but the price was great.

POR15 works with little surface prep. Remove the loose rust and apply. If you have just surface rust its a great solution. Holes..... Better to get a used unit from non road salt area.

[shurur9]

Yup, por15 needs little prep.
I use purple power/super clean and wire brush, gloves and a greenie, then rinse it all really well.

I just brush it on.

[cesca]

I have sport suspension and while mine has the same crimps they are also welded. From what I have seen the standard versions are crimped but not seam welded. The AT version will have the extra mount holes for the transmission. It you have a stick they just don't get used. From what I have read plenty of people have used a auto cross member on a stick without issue. It's what you get when you do a auto to stick conversion. Factory S4 bushings are pricy. I had been getting mine from a source in Latvia (cars245). Slow but the price was great.

POR15 works with little surface prep. Remove the loose rust and apply. If you have just surface rust its a great solution. Holes..... Better to get a used unit from non road salt area.

cars245. thank you again, this site is pretty awesome. i found so many items that i will get now: wiper blades, right mirror +motor, coolant sensor. they have carbon cabin filters for less than $10 while stateside, they're currently $30 haha. however, no bushings (that i could find) unless you meant the audi/OG. independent of this site, do you or anyone have a brand you prefer for subframe bushings (or a brand or material to avoid?) seem like an important part and i fear the lost time in going down the benchmark rabbit hole

subframe. im going to prioritize a MT, AT as a backup alternative. looked at AT online and im reluctant because here, they throw down so much salt in the winter and it would rot faster from inside out, tho...AT is still a better option than a $1.3K OG. am thinking i may get it welded first, then treat it

[cesca]

Yup, por15 needs little prep.
I use purple power/super clean and wire brush, gloves and a greenie, then rinse it all really well.

I just brush it on.

thanks! yea, good idea, and skip their brand cleaner; it's just a degreaser. if surface is pitted some and worn down, i think POR15 will stay on there fine. if subframe surface is still original and has little/no rust, which seems crazy to imagine after 15yrs, i will probably use their second step etching spray (MetalPrep) so that the POR15 stays on there for good

[RLee556]

In the process of replacing mine too. Had rot on the back left arm mount. Going to chop the trans mount ears off, then get it blasted, seams welded, and powder coated.
Thinking of making it red

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[RLee556]

Anyone have experience with these poly mounts?

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[neo0211]

Anyone have experience with these poly mounts?

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I have used these.
They increase NVH.
But the handling will get better.
Now consider switching back to the original RS4.

[walky_talky20]

Did anybody link the subframe compatibility thread?

Apparently, the subframe you guys want is one from a B5. They were made properly with welds and such.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ibility-Thread

[Kevin C]

Did anybody link the subframe compatibility thread?

Apparently, the subframe you guys want is one from a B5. They were made properly with welds and such.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ibility-Thread

I have not looked at a ton of subframes but I do know that the subframe on my 2003 with sport suspension has welds along the crimp edges. Fitting the correct sport suspension bushings was a nice upgrade. I had the better subframe but not the better bushings.

[Spike00513]

subframe probably like 60 bucks at a junkyard
plus change for other parts

[BumblebVR6]

I'll be doing mine in the future. Have one from my old car in perfect shape. Going to install solid 034 aluminum bushings like I did when I swapped in my rear subframe. If anyone needs a set of factory/Snap-On subframe aligning dowels, I accidently ordered two sets so will sell for $20 plus cost to ship:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...ool-pair/3393/

[RLee556]

subframe probably like 60 bucks at a junkyard
plus change for other parts

Just picked one up. $210 + tax

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[RLee556]

I'll be doing mine in the future. Have one from my old car in perfect shape. Going to install solid 034 aluminum bushings like I did when I swapped in my rear subframe. If anyone needs a set of factory/Snap-On subframe aligning dowels, I accidently ordered two sets so will sell for $20 plus cost to ship:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...ool-pair/3393/

I'll take'm off your hands

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[RLee556]

I have not looked at a ton of subframes but I do know that the subframe on my 2003 with sport suspension has welds along the crimp edges. Fitting the correct sport suspension bushings was a nice upgrade. I had the better subframe but not the better bushings.

I'm gonna get mine sandblasted, welded, & powder coated.

The ones that have the crimp seams welded, are they welded continuously all the way around, or 1-2" welds spaced out. (Understanding that overheating can cause warping)

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[Jayz691]

Anyone have experience with these poly mounts?

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Have these on my b7. Little NVH, but can't say 100% how much is from mounts alone. Did a balance shaft delete, and installed a fluidamper at the same time. Also seems theyve settled in some, or I got used to it. Also switched back to a new stock snub mount, so may have helped.0922211055.jpg1008211413_HDR.jpg

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[Spike00513]

Personally, I would never really consider buying this particular part new from Audi. There are tons of these available in junkyards that are in absolutely mint condition. I would get one of those, do the welding modification or what-have-you, and carry on. Spending half the entire value of the car on a part that is quite plentiful and has zero moving parts sounds like a big waste of money to me. Admittedly, I am a cheapskate. /IMHO

welding shops are approx $100/hr or more
I bet if a person has a good relationship with a welding shop, or friend who welds
that they might not even charge for laying a quick bead down the seam. Would help to have prepped that section of the metal bare first.
Not to mention DIY welding

Have these on my b7. Little NVH, but can't say 100% how much is from mounts alone. Did a balance shaft delete, and installed a fluidamper at the same time. Also seems theyve settled in some, or I got used to it. Also switched back to a new stock snub mount, so may have helped.0922211055.jpg1008211413_HDR.jpg

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Ran solid bushings before. Job of the shocks and springs is to dampen ride. Carmakers put soft subframe bushings with sloppy handling as a cheap way to soften ride so people don't notice the $5 shocks.
The handling and response improved, but it squeaked. I may have not torqued it enough. Unless it was the metal to metal which was the problem; something poly might resolve.
Higher performance cars tend to have stiffer durometer bushings than their more base model equivalents.

[walky_talky20]

welding shops are approx $100/hr or more
I bet if a person has a good relationship with a welding shop, or friend who welds
that they might not even charge for laying a quick bead down the seam. Would help to have prepped that section of the metal bare first.
Not to mention DIY welding

This is true. Not everybody has a "hook-up" for welding stuff. I think the best option for a cost-effective B6 repair is to obtain a B5 subframe as they are already welded. This may mean reconfiguring some transmission mounts in some cases, however. But everything should bolt in with factory parts as long as you get all the right stuff.

[RLee556]

This is true. Not everybody has a "hook-up" for welding stuff. I think the best option for a cost-effective B6 repair is to obtain a B5 subframe as they are already welded. This may mean reconfiguring some transmission mounts in some cases, however. But everything should bolt in with factory parts as long as you get all the right stuff.

I'm planning on getting getting mine welded. Should it be all the way around all seams, or would 1" tacks every couple inches be enough?

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