Carbon Ceramic Brakes

[itsgottabekevin]

My 2019 Audi RS5 SB (35,000 miles) is due for rear pads and rotors along with the fronts in a couple of months. I'm interested buying the Audi Carbon Ceramic Brake kit but wanted to hear what people's thoughts and experiences have been. Would it be worth it over the long run? Any PROS or CONS?

[Burrcold]

Only the fronts are carbon ceramics. Is it worth it to do the conversion on the fronts? Depends on your use. I have them and love that there is virtually no brake dust, but honestly that's the only thing I care about. They do work incredibly well but are also a little more touchy in stop and go traffic. If you're okay with the price, go for it.

[itsgottabekevin]

Thanks! I daily her and that's about it. I was thinking of the kit to make sure the gray matches all around instead of gray calipers in the front and red in the rear.

[kmarei]

I've owned an rs5 with the regular brakes
And my current one with ceramic brakes
Ceramic kicks ass :)
They are almost an inch bigger and the stop the car much quicker than the regular ones

[JohnEnglish]

Where were you looking at getting them from, LDC OEM?

[DaytonaRS5]

They will help you stop around a car length better at best, they are really to help with brake fade as you’d stop in the same distance time after time, that and the lack of brake dust. They need warming up to operate well and are not nice to use around stop and start traffic and they squeal a lot, the negatives don’t outweigh the positives in my opinion, but you do you if you want them.


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[Burrcold]

They will help you stop around a car length better at best, they are really to help with brake fade as you’d stop in the same distance time after time, that and the lack of brake dust. They need warming up to operate well and are not nice to use around stop and start traffic and they squeal a lot, the negatives don’t outweigh the positives in my opinion, but you do you if you want them.


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This is my second RS5 with carbon ceramics and neither one squeal at all. In fact I got more noise from previous B9 S4/S5 cars that I had with steel brakes.

[Akoby9]

^Agreed. I have very little brake squeal. Every now and again I hear it but I heard similar noises with my S4 regular pads. Ceramic is great, love it for less brake dust, but stopping power is amazing. The ONLY down side I see is if you drive the car in snow. I've noticed with mine, when I drive it in the snow the brakes are slower to react.

Besides that, I love them.

[JohnEnglish]

There's also a weight savings of (I think) about 25 lbs. per wheel. You'd probably also get improved stopping power since the brakes are slightly larger.

[TSpoolin]

I added carbon ceramics to my 2019 RS5. Picked them up from Killer Brakes at a good price and was able to get red calipers. They look great and work really well, and literally no brake dust! I put a rear set of Hawk Performance Ceramic pads on and now my wheels stay clean. It's an expensive upgrade, but worth it for myself.

[JohnEnglish]

I added carbon ceramics to my 2019 RS5. Picked them up from Killer Brakes at a good price and was able to get red calipers. They look great and work really well, and literally no brake dust! I put a rear set of Hawk Performance Ceramic pads on and now my wheels stay clean. It's an expensive upgrade, but worth it for myself.

Did you buy the front and rear CCBs from Killer Brakes or just the fronts? Did it include all the mounting hardware, adapters, and dust shields or just the rotors and calipers?

[DaytonaRS5]

Oh yeah my metal ones squeal a tad, glad to hear they don’t on the RS5. Every car I’ve driven with them they were awful, were slightly older with higher miles though so maybe why.


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[itsgottabekevin]

I think I might have reached out before. I'll DM them on IG.

[itsgottabekevin]

What was your motivation factor that led you to change from regular to ceramics?

I've owned an rs5 with the regular brakes
And my current one with ceramic brakes
Ceramic kicks ass :)
They are almost an inch bigger and the stop the car much quicker than the regular ones

[itsgottabekevin]

I was looking at PartsByTopher but completely forgot about LDC. I'll ping them to see what they have. Do you have any experience working with LDC?

Where were you looking at getting them from, LDC OEM?

[TSpoolin]

Did you buy the front and rear CCBs from Killer Brakes or just the fronts? Did it include all the mounting hardware, adapters, and dust shields or just the rotors and calipers?

Just the fronts, which included the rotors, calipers and pads. Did not need to change dust shields or need adapters. They bolt right on. I also changed to braided, stainless brake lines when I did the change.

[JohnEnglish]

I was looking at PartsByTopher but completely forgot about LDC. I'll ping them to see what they have. Do you have any experience working with LDC?

No, I don’t. You may also want to check out KillerBrakes.com. They only list the front brakes but they could probably source the rears too.

Just the fronts, which included the rotors, calipers and pads. Did not need to change dust shields or need adapters. They bolt right on. I also changed to braided, stainless brake lines when I did the change.

Thats good to know, looking at the parts diagrams they dust shields and brackets seemed to be the same parts but I wasn’t completely sure.

[initiala4]

This is my second RS5 with carbon ceramics and neither one squeal at all. In fact I got more noise from previous B9 S4/S5 cars that I had with steel brakes.

Mine doesnt squeal though.

[initiala4]

I was looking at PartsByTopher but completely forgot about LDC. I'll ping them to see what they have. Do you have any experience working with LDC?

My friend got the fronts, and rears in CCB from them.

I did enquire on the rears, it cost around 8800 EUR.

[kmarei]

What was your motivation factor that led you to change from regular to ceramics?

I changed cars :)
Wanted an rs5 with more options so I sold my moderately optioned rs5 for a fully loaded rs5
When you're buying used, the price difference for all those options is much smaller than buying new
Never buying new again, because I change cars every 2 years or so
If I buy new, I'd get screwed in depreciation

[mxrz]

I've owned an rs5 with the regular brakes
And my current one with ceramic brakes
Ceramic kicks ass :)
They are almost an inch bigger and the stop the car much quicker than the regular ones

No they don't.

[kmarei]

No they don't.

Regular steel rotors are 375mm
Ceramic rotors are 400mm
25mm= 1"

Have you owned both on the rs5?
I have and it's a world of difference

[mxrz]

Regular steel rotors are 375mm
Ceramic rotors are 400mm
25mm= 1"

Have you owned both on the rs5?
I have and it's a world of difference

I don't have to own both on the RS5 to understand physics and how brakes work on a car. Audi would be a bunch of dumb amateurs if they made a version of the RS5 with brakes that can't overcome the real limiting factors; abs and tire traction. They aren't, and they haven't. Both the steel brakes and carbon ceramic brakes produce enough friction to engage abs. You would have to purposefully abuse the braking system to reach a point where the slight thermal capacity advantage of the carbon rotors starts making a noticeable difference. Then again, under such condition, like at the track, these brakes are garbage... go ask the 911 GT3 guys what they run at the track. Steel brakes. These aren't carbon-carbon rotors like racecars have, these are made for the street, to look pretty and make less brake dust, they don't actually have the performance pedigree of racing carbon brakes, they're made from totally different compounds. It's for show.

Your anecdotal evidence is just you not really understanding the difference you're experiencing. If you'd done an actual distance test, you would know it's nonsense. It's the same old tired BBK are better, argument. Brembo still has a disclaimer on their website, basically saying any kind of braking upgrade kit doesn't make the car stop faster because the components in question (rotors, pads, calipers) are not the liming factor.

[kmarei]

I don't have to own both on the RS5 to understand physics and how brakes work on a car. Audi would be a bunch of dumb amateurs if they made a version of the RS5 with brakes that can't overcome the real limiting factors; abs and tire traction. They aren't, and they haven't. Both the steel brakes and carbon ceramic brakes produce enough friction to engage abs. You would have to purposefully abuse the braking system to reach a point where the slight thermal capacity advantage of the carbon rotors starts making a noticeable difference. Then again, under such condition, like at the track, these brakes are garbage... go ask the 911 GT3 guys what they run at the track. Steel brakes. These aren't carbon-carbon rotors like racecars have, these are made for the street, to look pretty and make less brake dust, they don't actually have the performance pedigree of racing carbon brakes, they're made from totally different compounds. It's for show.

Your anecdotal evidence is just you not really understanding the difference you're experiencing. If you'd done an actual distance test, you would know it's nonsense. It's the same old tired BBK are better, argument. Brembo still has a disclaimer on their website, basically saying any kind of braking upgrade kit doesn't make the car stop faster because the components in question (rotors, pads, calipers) are not the liming factor.

Well I have owned both, each for about a year
My commute is the same
And I definitely have a lot more confidence with the ceramics than the steel ones
I don't have to stand on the brakes as much when I need to come to a sudden stop
And believe it or not, I couldn't care less what the gt3 guys run at the track

So you're saying if they had "performance pedigree" then the laws of physics would change ?
According to you, if both the steel and ceramic have enough power to engage the abs
Surely if these were made with different compounds, as you stated, it would also have no effect?
You're contradicting yourself

Most of the times I have seen people say ceramics aren't worth it on this forum
It's usually people who don't have them
Never seen someone who had them, that didn't think they are worth it

[mxrz]

So you're saying if they had "performance pedigree" then the laws of physics would change ?
According to you, if both the steel and ceramic have enough power to engage the abs
Surely if these were made with different compounds, as you stated, it would also have no effect?
You're contradicting yourself

You ask a dumb question, try to answer it as me, and conclude your own answer is me contradicting myself. lol. Context matters, like the conditions I was describing; track use, heavy abuse, situations where real high performance carbon brakes would show their benefit, but that's not what you have on your RS5, you have a street version designed to be user friendly (less squeal, no requirement to heat them up significantly before they actually work) these are all compromises that make them for show, not better performance.

And believe it or not, I couldn't care less what the gt3 guys run at the track

I bet, as you appear to have no interest in understanding why they're actually worse for high performance than steel brakes.

[kmarei]

You ask a dumb question, try to answer it as me, and conclude your own answer is me contradicting myself. lol. Context matters, like the conditions I was describing; track use, heavy abuse, situations where real high performance carbon brakes would show their benefit, but that's not what you have on your RS5, you have a street version designed to be user friendly (less squeal, no requirement to heat them up significantly before they actually work) these are all compromises that make them for show, not better performance.
I bet, as you appear to have no interest in understanding why they're actually worse for high performance than steel brakes.

My point still stands
with the same pedal pressure, the ceramics stop the car much quicker than the steel brakes
so maybe on ceramics i need 20% pedal pressure, on steel i would need 40% pedal pressure to achieve the same braking distance
maybe if you used max braking on both, they would be the same braking distance
but that's not something that happens on a daily driver, again the whole whats good on the race track is irrelevant here
for daily driving, i am not standing on the brakes each time i use them, like you are on a track
in that case the ceramics are better for road driving

and the original poster was talking about daily driving, not track driving

[mxrz]

My point still stands
with the same pedal pressure, the ceramics stop the car much quicker than the steel brakes
so maybe on ceramics i need 20% pedal pressure, on steel i would need 40% pedal pressure to achieve the same braking distance
maybe if you used max braking on both, they would be the same braking distance
but that's not something that happens on a daily driver, again the whole whats good on the race track is irrelevant here
for daily driving, i am not standing on the brakes each time i use them, like you are on a track
in that case the ceramics are better for road driving

and the original poster was talking about daily driving, not track driving

Nope, wrong, not how it works. You should have just said it gives you more confidence, that's it, good for you, but your explanation is simply wrong, or your steel brakes weren't in good working order.

[kmarei]

Nope, wrong, not how it works. You should have just said it gives you more confidence, that's it, good for you, but your explanation is simply wrong, or your steel brakes weren't in good working order.

both of my cars were checked by audi in the PPI
both had no issues listed for brakes, both front and rear had almost full pads

both had the continental tires in the same size
only difference was the brakes
one was steel
one was ceramic


and yes they do give me more confidence, you know why?
because they stop quicker :)

[mxrz]

As long as you believe it

[yoffer]

^^ he’s right

[VVG]

I have Carbon ceramics on my 718 Spyder and have ordered them on my RS5. The biggest benefit is the lower unsprung weight and how that helps ride quality and subjective steering responsiveness. Secondly is the issue of virtually no brake dust. The initial bite is much better than steel brakes also.

With regards to the track, the main reason that people run steel brakes at the track is that Carbons are very expensive to replace and you will ultimately go through them if you track frequently enough even though they will last much longer than a set of steel brakes.

[mxrz]

With regards to the track, the main reason that people run steel brakes at the track is that Carbons are very expensive to replace and you will ultimately go through them if you track frequently enough even though they will last much longer than a set of steel brakes.

No, they actually wear much faster at high temperatures, they can be trashed completely in a couple of track sessions. Iron/steel alloy rotors last longer.

[JohnEnglish]

Yeah on the street the CCBs will last a long time. On a tack they’ll get used up in a couple of sessions.

[VVG]

Yeah on the street the CCBs will last a long time. On a tack they’ll get used up in a couple of sessions.

Well I have had two full track days in my bone stock Spyder and the ceramics showed no signs of any wear whatsoever. Pads even look great. Plus plenty of other spirited driving. If you track frequently, AND if you use street compound pads with carbon ceramics, it can become problematic, but there is always a trade-off between performance and longevity, be it brakes, tires, or engines.

But as I said, the benefits of CCBs are mostly subjective. The ride is clearly superior from the lower unsprung weight, as is the steering sharpness. Subjectivity is actually more important than anything since, ultimately, that is what driving enjoyment is all about, unless you are racing for money. Furthermore, I doubt anyone is going to use an RS5 as a serious track-duty car. There any many, many better choices for those so inclined. CCB are great for a street driven performance car like the RS5.