replacing one injector in the bank with newer revision

[fastboatster]

alright, I might need to replace one of the injectors in my bank 1. I have a 2010 car, and it is supposed to use the injectors with p/n 06E906036G. These injectors were discontinued and the new P/N is 06E906036AL I think, which also supersedes 2011+ injector with p/n 06E906036P. Here's the part which got me baffled - these newer style injectors are using different upper and lower support clips p/ns, and to me it looked like the distance from the tip of the injector to the top of the "ears" of the upper injector support element is not the same for the old and new style injectors:
IMG_3347.jpg
But then I realized I actually had 2 different kinds of upper support spacers I pulled from my new engine when I serviced it before the install (here they're side by side with a new revision support element on the left):
IMG_3348.jpg
and it looks like the middle support element actually turns out to be the same length:
IMG_3349.jpg
So nevertheless, I would like to double-check that replacing only one injector with newer revision is fine, and I don't need to install newer style bottom and top support rings to the leftover old revision injectors.
As for that strange upper spacer on the right, it looks like it came from the 2.0T injector, so perhaps when somebody messed with this engine before, they got one or more 2.0T injectors installed that might explain why the car vibrates at idle and all the spark plugs are looking great except for cylinder 1. if that's the case, then that's crazy. wonder why the car even ran, and ran well at wot.

[Fresh.S4]

i have an '11. my injectors i pulled were the same as the ones you have on the left "G". I replaced all 6 with the "AL" and they looked like the ones on the left.
a local guy has a 16 or '17 a7 with the 3L and his are the ones on the right with the black clips on the shaft.

remember we share the same injectors as the VW taureg, save on audi tax and by from a vw dealership.

[Darepoole]

Yeah I was gonna say the same thing ^ while your in there mind as replace them all with the same part number.


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[fastboatster]

i have an '11. my injectors i pulled were the same as the ones you have on the left "G". I replaced all 6 with the "AL" and they looked like the ones on the left.
a local guy has a 16 or '17 a7 with the 3L and his are the ones on the right with the black clips on the shaft.

remember we share the same injectors as the VW taureg, save on audi tax and by from a vw dealership.

I have actually sent the old injectors from my old dead engine for cleaning, but probably will install the new injector in place of the injector #1 which I now suspect is either from 2.0T or just has an upper spacer from 2.0T which causes it to be not all the way in the combustion chamber. I'll install cleaned injectors if I find any other injectors which are not supposed to be in 3.0T.
Yes, S4 injectors are the same as Touareg/Q7 etc, but I was sort of itchy to get a new injector so bought one locally from some Audi dealer for 218$, local VW dealers wanted more. Could probably get one online for 40$ less but I'd have to wait more. Curiously, the same dealer has this injector listed for 270ish when listed as an S4 part. I bought it as a Q7 injector for 218, same p/n)

[Smac770]

The 3.0T fuel injector revision history is G > P > AC > AJ > AL.

There was a physical change from G to P. P and later revisions require the additional lower support element 06E 906 189 F: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...ch/06e906189f/

The same thing was done with the 2.0T.

If they are that old, I'd replace them all. While the ECM should be able to read the lambda per cylinder and adjust the injection window per cylinder, I don't know if it actually does. We only get a single measuring value for the engine as a whole, but is it managing each cylinder separately. It's unlikely 10 year old injectors are going to flow the same vol/ms as a brand new one.

[fastboatster]

popped the new injector in, had to scavenge the lower support element 06E 906 189 F from the old P revision injector I bought exactly for this purpose (all the online/local dealers I asked told me that this lower support is on backorder with no ETA). I haven't yet completely bled the cooling system, new injector seems to make some difference but doesn't completely eliminate the vibration. What I noticed is that when I gave it some gas and let off, it felt like something shook and gradually calm down. Must be something exhaust related I guess. Anyways, all the rest of the injectors are def not from 2.0T, and they all were using 06D133036K upper support part, and all made contact with fuel rail.

[Corydms7]

I had two injectors fail. One failed around 63k ish miles cylinder 6 then around 67k ish miles I had another die on cylinder 3. Never replaced the other ones. After the second one failed, I’ll let them all soak in gum out overnight before I put them back in. Who knows if it actually helped them or not. At 73k miles now and haven’t had any of the others fail. I believe mine were all “AJ” version.

[Corydms7]

My old ones might’ve been version P actually. Can’t exactly remember

I had two injectors fail. One failed around 63k ish miles cylinder 6 then around 67k ish miles I had another die on cylinder 3. Never replaced the other ones. After the second one failed, I’ll let them all soak in gum out overnight before I put them back in. Who knows if it actually helped them or not. At 73k miles now and haven’t had any of the others fail. I believe mine were all “AJ” version.

[Bartlett]

i have an '11. my injectors i pulled were the same as the ones you have on the left "G". I replaced all 6 with the "AL" and they looked like the ones on the left.
a local guy has a 16 or '17 a7 with the 3L and his are the ones on the right with the black clips on the shaft.

remember we share the same injectors as the VW taureg, save on audi tax and by from a vw dealership.

Across US dealerships, as of today, the cheapest from VW is $176 @ https://parts.z-vw.com/p/75727551/06E906036AL.html
The cheapest from Audi is $187 @ https://parts.kansascityaudi.com/p/7...E906036AL.html

Not much savings , and damn these things got expensive.

The 3.0T fuel injector revision history is G > P > AC > AJ > AL.

There was a physical change from G to P. P and later revisions require the additional lower support element 06E 906 189 F: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...ch/06e906189f/

The same thing was done with the 2.0T.

If they are that old, I'd replace them all. While the ECM should be able to read the lambda per cylinder and adjust the injection window per cylinder, I don't know if it actually does. We only get a single measuring value for the engine as a whole, but is it managing each cylinder separately. It's unlikely 10 year old injectors are going to flow the same vol/ms as a brand new one.

Do you know the differences between the last 3?

[Fresh.S4]

Across US dealerships, as of today, the cheapest from VW is $176 @ https://parts.z-vw.com/p/75727551/06E906036AL.html
The cheapest from Audi is $187 @ https://parts.kansascityaudi.com/p/7...E906036AL.html

Not much savings , and damn these things got expensive.





Do you know the differences between the last 3?

i paid $125/each not to long ago. (when i discovered they were the same as tauregs)
$176 isnt bad still compared to what some folks were complaining about in the $250+ range. All it takes is some decent google searching to find these awesome prices.

its weird someone says that G>>> P was the black clips revision, yet the AL do not have black clips.
Going back to the local guy who had the black clip injectors on his a7, we could not for the life of us get them installed naturally. He had to use the intake runners and basically press them in by tightening all the bolts.

[Bartlett]

i paid $125/each not to long ago. (when i discovered they were the same as tauregs)
$176 isnt bad still compared to what some folks were complaining about in the $250+ range. All it takes is some decent google searching to find these awesome prices.

its weird someone says that G>>> P was the black clips revision, yet the AL do not have black clips.
Going back to the local guy who had the black clip injectors on his a7, we could not for the life of us get them installed naturally. He had to use the intake runners and basically press them in by tightening all the bolts.

$125 is more like it!

Yeah, Google searching can unveil cheaper prices, but to get the cheapest, you might have to scrape all the dealerships like I did . Usually, certain dealerships are generally cheaper than the rest, but it can vary by part.

I wonder which revision I have...probably G or P. I wish Audi was more transparent with customers about the differences.

[Fresh.S4]

$125 is more like it!

Yeah, Google searching can unveil cheaper prices, but to get the cheapest, you might have to scrape all the dealerships like I did . Usually, certain dealerships are generally cheaper than the rest, but it can vary by part.

I wonder which revision I have...probably G or P. I wish Audi was more transparent with customers about the differences.

in the world of "slickdeals.net" thats how it works when buying things online, by going through other zipcodes because yea different markets/ different prices.

[Smac770]

No idea what was changed, if anything, between the revisions. The 3.0T ones seem to be by Siemens / Continental / VDO (they're going to have to do something about their name if they keep buying up more brands). But the same thing was done with the Bosch ones for the 2.0T around the same time. No idea why the physical change. Bosch has rolled the part number for the injectors several times since then as well, same as VDO seems to be doing; Audi just follows suit with their catalog. Who knows what they are tinkering with or what reason they are rolling the part number.

The change from G to P appears to have been Jun '11.
The change from P to AC appears to have been Feb '15.
AC to AJ was probably late '16, and AJ to AL early '20.


The fuel injector part number includes just the injector, with seals installed. The upper and lower supports are separately ordered part numbers. You should be using the lower support with AL, same as AJ, AC, and P (and K). But not for G.

For the A6/A7, if it was C7.0 with a CGX or CTU engine, should have been the same, though they started with rev K, which was also the revised shape and used the lower support, before going to rev P. The C7.5 with the CRE engine used 06C injectors and completely different scenario.

If there was hardship installing the injector, can't say what it might have been. Didn't have them in my hands.

[Corydms7]

Buy Continental injectors. I know for a fact the OEM Audi LPFP is Continental brand. I put in a Continental pump in my car and the Audi logos were scraped off the plastic on the face of the pump.

[fastboatster]

I think these are out of stock now at most if not any places. Anyways, I hope that injector replacement will make cylinder 1 spark plug look like the rest (I also popped another spark plug from the bunch of lightly used plugs I had, may install some extra coil I got). hopefully there's no cylinder issue as I did the compression testing about 1kmiles ago and cyl 1 had a cold compression of 175 psi.

[fastboatster]

quick update - I used to have a misfire counters increase then doing WOT pulls. Now they are 0s for all cylinders after the new PCV and this new injector. The car does feel better at WOT. That said, some shakiness at idle is still present, I wonder if one of my upper tensioners is not good and it allows the cam timing to fluctuate at low oil pressure at idle. or perhaps that;s a broken cam adjuster unit pin. Speaking of timing chain tensioners, would b8.5 units work in b8? these are a lot cheaper than b8. INA tensioners are available for both banks for b8.5s, but only one side is available for b8 for now. I'd rather prefer to install 2 tensioners 140$ a piece than 2 at nearly 400.

[djn876]

quick update - I used to have a misfire counters increase then doing WOT pulls. Now they are 0s for all cylinders after the new PCV and this new injector. The car does feel better at WOT. That said, some shakiness at idle is still present, I wonder if one of my upper tensioners is not good and it allows the cam timing to fluctuate at low oil pressure at idle. or perhaps that;s a broken cam adjuster unit pin. Speaking of timing chain tensioners, would b8.5 units work in b8? these are a lot cheaper than b8. INA tensioners are available for both banks for b8.5s, but only one side is available for b8 for now. I'd rather prefer to install 2 tensioners 140$ a piece than 2 at nearly 400.

Motor mounts are good?

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[fastboatster]

Motor mounts are good?

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they are 1 year old 034 mounts with only a few thousand miles, they are probably good because I don't see any leaks and cracks there. thing is, this vibration doesn't happen all the time. it feels like it sometimes turns on or off. I guess one things I should do before messing with tensioners (which might need to get done since I am getting a longer rattle on startup especially when cold) is to try to run the engine without accessory and supercharger belts. I did replace all the belt tensioners and idler pulleys when replacing the old engine but left the same PS pump and AC compressor. I didn't feel any problems when turning their pulleys by hand when I was suspecting this might have to do with accessories but maybe this is not a good indicator. Clogged PS pump perhaps or something fishy with ac compressor perhaps?

[fastboatster]

I haven't removed the belts yet. yesterday the car started to run a lot better and the vibration was practically gone (ambient temps were in 60s). today it started to shake again during the cold start and gave me a first fault code in few months - P0159, slow responding bank 2 O2 sensor 2. I think this is a postcat sensor, I checked measuring value for it and it does appear to be moving slowly and not updating frequently sometimes. I think in most vehicles, this sensor shouldn't have much of an effect on how the cars runs, but this might not be the case for Audis, is it? Another thing which might be causing this according to some google links is an exhaust leak, misfire (duh) or a vacuum leak. I guess I'm going to try to swap the secondary oxygen sensor on the bank 2 really quick (bank 2 is a driver side, right? just double-checking) for one of the sensors which came with this engine from the salvage yard when it was bought to replace the old engine (right now I'm using the same sensors which were installed in the cats). Another thought that it might be an exhaust leak, perhaps between the cat flange and the exhaust manifold. Can this also be a bad cat?
P.S. my extra secondary cat sensor were laying outside for a year exposed to all the elements like rain etc? perhaps they might not be good after that

[Izzyz28]

I haven't removed the belts yet. yesterday the car started to run a lot better and the vibration was practically gone (ambient temps were in 60s). today it started to shake again during the cold start and gave me a first fault code in few months - P0159, slow responding bank 2 O2 sensor 2. I think this is a postcat sensor, I checked measuring value for it and it does appear to be moving slowly and not updating frequently sometimes. I think in most vehicles, this sensor shouldn't have much of an effect on how the cars runs, but this might not be the case for Audis, is it? Another thing which might be causing this according to some google links is an exhaust leak, misfire (duh) or a vacuum leak. I guess I'm going to try to swap the secondary oxygen sensor on the bank 2 really quick (bank 2 is a driver side, right? just double-checking) for one of the sensors which came with this engine from the salvage yard when it was bought to replace the old engine (right now I'm using the same sensors which were installed in the cats). Another thought that it might be an exhaust leak, perhaps between the cat flange and the exhaust manifold. Can this also be a bad cat?
P.S. my extra secondary cat sensor were laying outside for a year exposed to all the elements like rain etc? perhaps they might not be good after that

Welp, sounds like a dying CAT. Bank 1 is passenger side, Bank 2 is driver's side.

[fastboatster]

Welp, sounds like a dying CAT. Bank 1 is passenger side, Bank 2 is driver's side.

Honestly, I’d remove the cats the first thing after getting any of these cars but I unfortunately have to have them to get the car smogged in CA. I’m not exactly sure slow responding secondary o2 sensor is a sign of a dead cat, might still have an exhaust leak and these sensors do go bad especially after this many years and miles. I’ll just swap the sensor in really quick and see how fast it responds. My other idea is that because this car had the trans removed and installed for a total of at least 4 times (I’ve lost count actually) what might have happened is that the exhaust manifold studs got slightly bent. Service manual doesn’t prescribe driver side cat removal, and I remember it was sort of getting in a way and the trans would sort of push on it and tilt the engine forward if not getting the trans close enough to the engine before starting to lift it up. I guess it doesn’t make much sense but I think you get the idea. I’ll try another o2 sensor first

[fastboatster]

Posting some more updates so that I don’t forget myself. I thought that my driver side valve cover gasket is leaking and decided to replace both gaskets. I discovered that some driver side valve cover bolts were not tight at all, perhaps allowing some crankcase gases to escape. This engine I’ve put in is a gift that keeps on giving.
Anyways, I also checked engine timing the best I can without putting a crank lock pin in, just by checking how the cams align with cam holding fixtures and nope, no smoking gun here, they align perfectly.
Installed cleaned injectors and it looks like one/some of them might be no good. I have 2 new injectors and one cleaned one in the bank 1 and it has very low fuel trim values, about -1.6% at idle, but the bank 2 where all injectors were cleaned is up to -10%, which is different from what I had before - low positive trims of about 3%. Might have to reinstall the old injectors back or perhaps inspect the spark plugs again and see which one looks rich and just pop a brand new injector there
P.S. also noticing that driver side exhaust tips seem to vibrate more noticeably than passenger side, and I had already checked exhaust hangers and their bolts - not torn and not loose. I do recall that driver side had exhaust manifold studs broken on the cat side when the engine came in, and I swapped my old exhaust manifold. At first, I installed it without heat shield bracket and had to remove to lower exhaust manifold nuts on the cylinder head side to install it. Perhaps that did actually cause the manifold gasket to not seal properly (slow response for secondary O2 sensor can mean exhaust leaks and misfire, so perhaps it's an exhaust leak).
Also, drove the car for 60 miles after swapping the injectors, wonder if that’s enough to pull the plugs out and “read” them. Same fuel trims but all misfire counters are 0.

[Fresh.S4]

Always replace injectors
Always

[fastboatster]

Always replace injectors
Always

seems like the entire bank 2 has rich sparkplugs now. cyl 1 on bank 1 looks like them even though it got a brand new injector, and the plug/coil were swapped. I'm actually thinking that the issue is dirty injector bores, i.e., they were not cleaned sufficiently. The nylon bore brush from my injector seal install kit kind of has gotten soft. I need a new one and perhaps a few.