Stock turbos and E85

[VinnysS4]

Today someone was telling me he is running full E85 on stock turbos and a completely stock fuel system 4.0t S7. He says you can run E85 on stock turbos and fueling. He says once you go stage 2 or upgrade the turbos that you can no longer run E85 unless you go with Direct Port injection.

1. Can you infact run E85 on stock turbos and stock HPFP and LPFP with stock lines?

2. Can you run E85 with rs7 turbos and upgraded HPFP, LPFP, fuel lines and sensors? Or is it required to buy the $6000 SRM intercooler/Di kit?

I was under the impression that you shouldn't run more then e40 or e50 before the stock fuel system runs out of fuel.

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[Evandoe]

The only question I can answer with 100 percent certainty is that you can run full e85 on a completely stock fuel system. Integrated Engineering offers a e85 tune for stock systems. Downpipes and intake are also perfectly fine being ran with e85 on a stock fuel system.


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[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

1. Yes we have many users that do.

2. We also have many running RS7 turbos with LP lines and HPFP pistons.

See DS1 user manual in my sig for lots of detailed info on running ethanol on 4.0T using flex fuel.

[Woodybangs]

What about a splash of E85 say one or two gallons? I just flashed and want to boost octane on the 93 tune.

[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

What about a splash of E85 say one or two gallons? I just flashed and want to boost octane on the 93 tune.

If you don't have an ethanol content sensor, and we recommend you do, you can set the ethanol content manually like this:

[Djcurb98]

I believe it was you and I that was having the discussion until the person who’s comment we were conversing on deleted his comment and our mini thread was gone. For reference I am also running the upgraded lines but as mentioned not fully needed for full E85 on a low stage setup

[VinnysS4]

I believe it was you and I that was having the discussion until the person who’s comment we were conversing on deleted his comment and our mini thread was gone. For reference I am also running the upgraded lines but as mentioned not fully needed for full E85 on a low stage setup

On insta? Yeah that was me. I was under the impression you needed upgraded lpfp lines and hpfp for e85, but I guess that's not the case. The real thing I was questioning was him saying you could not run rs7 turbos with e85 on stage 2 or 3 software, even with upgraded lines and hpfp. Didnt make much sense to me. He was claiming that it was REQUIRED to have direct port injection for any upgraded turbos... Which makes no sense if SRM sells a kit for running E85 that supports up to 900whp without direct port injection, and only recently started selling the A2A kit with direct port injection. You're not going to see those #s on a stage 1 tune. I dont care who you are.
I understand that with full stage 3 tune, large than rs6/rs7 turbos, etc, that you may only be able to utilize up to E50 or E60, but on RS7 turbos and lpfp lines and HPFP plunger or upgraded hpfp, you can run E85.
Not sure why he deleted the comments.

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[Djcurb98]

Yah that was me lol I never deleted the comments, we were replying on Someone’s comment and they deleted theirs which got rid of the thread. I was saying you can’t run full E85 on Rs7’s or bigger from what I’ve seen but can still achieve a blend of some sort but I think I also recall in the DS manual that it can become as little a blend as up to e25 I think with the larger sized ones and with getting a system like A2A or some sort of DI you can get that number higher like back to e50 or so but i haven’t seen anything stating that we may be able to achieve full e85 on higher stages even with that system. I could be wrong but anyone else can chime in of they have additional info

[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

At sensible boost levels for OTS maps with a healthy fuel system, RS7 turbos with LP lines and HPFP pistons can run E85. If we were finding multiple examples where they could not we would refresh our OTS maps to reduce boost over say E70, but we haven't had to.

[VinnysS4]

At sensible boost levels for OTS maps with a healthy fuel system, RS7 turbos with LP lines and HPFP pistons can run E85. If we were finding multiple examples where they could not we would refresh our OTS maps to reduce boost over say E70, but we haven't had to.

Thanks John! I figured this was the case, just needed confirmation.

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[John336]

Wait, so can I just fill up E85 in a complete stock 2016 S7 ?
After leaving less than 1 gallon of 93/95/98 RON in the tank and then filling up with E85.

Or do I need a new ECU Tune but no hardware changes necessary?

Local E85 Ethanol content:
Summer: minimum 75, typical value 83
Winter: minimum 70, typical value 82

(98 RON is 45% more expensive here at the moment than E85.)

[BluBlur]

wanna know if this is the same for the RS7 as well

[MattyMarkey]

Wait, so can I just fill up E85 in a complete stock 2016 S7 ?
After leaving less than 1 gallon of 93/95/98 RON in the tank and then filling up with E85.

Or do I need a new ECU Tune but no hardware changes necessary?

Local E85 Ethanol content:
Summer: minimum 75, typical value 83
Winter: minimum 70, typical value 82

(98 RON is 45% more expensive here at the moment than E85.)

Need an ECU tune to support running E85 on the stock system. No hardware necessary, IF and only if, you can set the ethanol content in the tune, otherwise you will need an ethanol sensor.


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[MattyMarkey]

wanna know if this is the same for the RS7 as well

As John mentioned above - you will need LP lines and HPFP pistons to run ethanol with RS7 turbos; larger turbos require more fueling, which needs larger fuel lines


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[kaploww]

There are situations where you will need larger fuel lines, and high pressure fuel pump pistons even on stock S6/S7 turbos.

You will get away with it 90% of the time on stock fuel lines, and about 99% of the time on stock HPFP’s.

However I have seen low mileage stock fuel system, stock turbo cars have their high pressure fuel pump pressure crash on E85.

It can happen on very cold, negative density altitude weather conditions, on extended pulls going through gears 1-4 and faster.

[John336]

Need an ECU tune to support running E85 on the stock system. No hardware necessary, IF and only if, you can set the ethanol content in the tune, otherwise you will need an ethanol sensor.

Thank you, that's great. Is there a tune that supports 70-85% ethanol content?
Are there any good ECU flashers cheaper than DS1?
At the moment I only got genuine VCDS, ODIS & VCP.
(There's an EDC17 plugin for VCP but it doesn't work through the OBD port).

[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

We are offering by far the fastest flasher with the best version support, the most widely used ethanol tunes with the best reliability record, flex fuel capability, map definitions, open OTS tunes, by far the best logging of any OEM ECU. We are confident that once you piece together the parts you will spend more and have less capability and reliability. You can buy PCM flash and J2534 to flash most versions for less, but to change the calibration it takes 10 times longer than a DS1 to flash, and the DS1 can map switch and real-time tune, you have no logging, no flex fuel, no map definition, no tune.

[core5]

E85 in higher percentage won’t eat up the stock fuel lines?

[Alabama]

We are offering by far the fastest flasher with the best version support, the most widely used ethanol tunes with the best reliability record, flex fuel capability, map definitions, open OTS tunes, by far the best logging of any OEM ECU. We are confident that once you piece together the parts you will spend more and have less capability and reliability. You can buy PCM flash and J2534 to flash most versions for less, but to change the calibration it takes 10 times longer than a DS1 to flash, and the DS1 can map switch and real-time tune, you have no logging, no flex fuel, no map definition, no tune.

All nice but not the key factor apparently for John336 who wonders about price. DynoSpectrum sells directly but also through dealers. So far as I'm aware the price is the same, so I'm not sure what value a dealer provides. A purchaser might be able to save on sales tax depending on where the item is bought. In another thread John@DynoSpectrum implied that the "promo code" on the order page is for show only with no plans for anything like a "Platinum Jubilee discount special"!

[MattyMarkey]

All nice but not the key factor apparently for John336 who wonders about price. DynoSpectrum sells directly but also through dealers. So far as I'm aware the price is the same, so I'm not sure what value a dealer provides. A purchaser might be able to save on sales tax depending on where the item is bought. In another thread John@DynoSpectrum implied that the "promo code" on the order page is for show only with no plans for anything like a "Platinum Jubilee discount special"!

Dealers usually offer package discounts with either other hardware or tuning (TCU, Custom).

They key factor John mentions still has to do with price… buy another tune from a different company and the cost to safely and effectively run E85 with his upgrades, will surpass the cost of DS1 which has everything in one package.


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[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

We are not interested in competing on price, only on reliability, features, quality and support.

[Alabama]

We are not interested in competing on price, only on reliability, features, quality and support.

The Apple Computer of tuning! Certainly the various comments on AZ threads support John's contention and MattyMarkey's comment.

[kaploww]

E85 in higher percentage won’t eat up the stock fuel lines?

It will not.

Cars have been ethanol compliant ever since fuel went to E10 standard.

[ANMS4]

Not sure on the V8, but you may want to run Ethanol cleaner every fill up, or other. I do I was running E50 on my A6 and the injectors were crapping out.:( I have replaced all 6 when I have my motor replaced then with in 6 months I had to replace two more for leaking

[Alabama]

Not sure on the V8, but you may want to run Ethanol cleaner every fill up, or other. I do I was running E50 on my A6 and the injectors were crapping out.:( I have replaced all 6 when I have my motor replaced then with in 6 months I had to replace two more for leaking

So if the standard becomes E15 instead of E10, is that enough to require some preventive maintenance?

[MattyMarkey]

Not sure on the V8, but you may want to run Ethanol cleaner every fill up, or other. I do I was running E50 on my A6 and the injectors were crapping out.:( I have replaced all 6 when I have my motor replaced then with in 6 months I had to replace two more for leaking

You definitely don’t want ethanol to sit for more than a couple/few weeks. People will also run multiple tanks of Ethanol and then switch to a tank with only 93 for a period of time to aid in the issues you can run into with high ethanol content in the fuel system.


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[S6Ralph_Maldo]

Not sure on the V8, but you may want to run Ethanol cleaner every fill up, or other. I do I was running E50 on my A6 and the injectors were crapping out.:( I have replaced all 6 when I have my motor replaced then with in 6 months I had to replace two more for leaking

I've ran this ethanol stabilizer since 2020 for peace of mind when I converted to e85 on my S6. Every fill up I drop about 2 oz or so, sometimes even more as I just visually gauge it. Heck I've even been running 50/50 water & meth mix with this stabilizer in the tank and have seen no issues in terms of performance or anything. Start ups, idle, WOT no perceivable issues. I have tried other fuel stabilizers like fuel ox and a no name brand and have suffered misfires, perhaps because they don't play nice with either the ethanol or meth. But in summary the Lucas e85 fuel stabilizer is a good product to use if worried about any ethanol sideffects.

https://www.autozone.com/fuel-and-en...6oz/977411_0_0

[ANMS4]

I've ran this ethanol stabilizer since 2020 for peace of mind when I converted to e85 on my S6. Every fill up I drop about 2 oz or so, sometimes even more as I just visually gauge it. Heck I've even been running 50/50 water & meth mix with this stabilizer in the tank and have seen no issues in terms of performance or anything. Start ups, idle, WOT no perceivable issues. I have tried other fuel stabilizers like fuel ox and a no name brand and have suffered misfires, perhaps because they don't play nice with either the ethanol or meth. But in summary the Lucas e85 fuel stabilizer is a good product to use if worried about any ethanol sideffects.

https://www.autozone.com/fuel-and-en...6oz/977411_0_0

Thats the same one I run!! Good your on top of that