2.0T Cylinder head cover sealant

[ElliottG]

Hi guys,

Regarding 2012 CAEB 2.0T cylinder head cover sealant. Service manual says to use silicone sealant, whereas many other people and videos I've watched use anaerobic sealant, like the VW green or Loctite 515.



Can anyone chime in on what the right thing to use is? I'm leaning towards anaerobic sealant due to the tight tolerances but not sure why the manual says to use silicone sealant.

[apeck240]

Hi guys,

Regarding 2012 CAEB 2.0T cylinder head cover sealant. Service manual says to use silicone sealant, whereas many other people and videos I've watched use anaerobic sealant, like the VW green or Loctite 515.



Can anyone chime in on what the right thing to use is? I'm leaning towards anaerobic sealant due to the tight tolerances but not sure why the manual says to use silicone sealant.

I used factory anaerobic the first time, the green stuff. Audi updated, and now recommends basically a gray rtv which I used this time

[Smac770]

It's curious that D 154 103 A1 is still current in the parts catalog, though it has been replaced on the CAEB cylinder head parts page with D 176 501 A1. So they basically said screw it with the green stuff, just use the same cheap stuff that's used on the block seals (oil pan, rms, timing cover, etc).

Think I'd be sticking with the anaerobic stuff for the cylinder head cover. Lot of places seem to associate Loctite 5970 with D 176 501 A1, which is just a RTV silicone sealant, and requires airborne moisture exposure to cure.

[vwcc]

I used Permatex 51813 just few months ago. Worked just fine.
But yes, I can confirm that ETKA parts catalog now shows some Loctite sealant product.

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[Theiceman]

Loctites specialty is flange sealents especially anaerobic ones. .. I wonder if it's some type of translation issue with the manual.
Very odd.

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[apeck240]

Loctites specialty is flange sealents especially anaerobic ones. .. I wonder if it's some type of translation issue with the manual.
Very odd.

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Dealers are being told to go to the rtv type and sell it. Really seems like regular ultra black to me20220216_075623.jpg

[ElliottG]

I used factory anaerobic the first time, the green stuff. Audi updated, and now recommends basically a gray rtv which I used this time

Thanks. You haven't had a problem with either of them?

I'm surprised, thinking the RTV is at least thicker than an anaerobic sealant, wouldn't it affect the clearances between the clamping on the cams?

[apeck240]

Thanks. You haven't had a problem with either of them?

I'm surprised, thinking the RTV is at least thicker than an anaerobic sealant, wouldn't it affect the clearances between the clamping on the cams?

The green didn't hold up great, haven't had the rtv on for long but it's fine so far. And I thought the same thing, but there's a lot of clamp pressure on em

[Theiceman]

yeah looks like RTV all right ...

i used loctite flange sealant on mine a couple years ago ( orange ) and so far so good..

[Spawne32]

Permatex makes high temp RTV's for high torque applications (clamping forces) that works really well. Even if you went with the cheap shit, the key is proper application more than anything.

[Chillaxin]

I used Permatex 51813 just few months ago. Worked just fine.
But yes, I can confirm that ETKA parts catalog now shows some Loctite sealant product.

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Permatex 51031 seems to be better suited when compared to 51813. It maintains 40% more strength when in contact with oil at 125C after 1000hrs. Cure time to ~90% total aluminum substrate strength is around 10hrs without activator spray. It seems that the 51031 or black/grey stuff would be the way to go. Has anyone used the pressurized cans of Black/Grey stuff?

[Spawne32]

Permatex 51031 seems to be better suited when compared to 51813. It maintains 40% more strength when in contact with oil at 125C after 1000hrs. Cure time to ~90% total aluminum substrate strength is around 10hrs without activator spray. It seems that the 51031 or black/grey stuff would be the way to go. Has anyone used the pressurized cans of Black/Grey stuff?

I've used the pressurized cans, they work well, but they are expensive for what you get. I wound up buying the tubes that go in caulk guns instead.

[vwcc]

Permatex 51031 seems to be better suited when compared to 51813. It maintains 40% more strength when in contact with oil at 125C after 1000hrs. Cure time to ~90% total aluminum substrate strength is around 10hrs without activator spray. It seems that the 51031 or black/grey stuff would be the way to go. Has anyone used the pressurized cans of Black/Grey stuff?

Yeah i was looking at 51301 but went with 51531 because it explicitly mentioned aluminum on its packaging. Although i agree with you that 51301 has better spec when it comes to longevity. Well, it done now. Hopefully it will last as long as the engine. Not looking to redo this as i dont want to be messing with timing again.
My factory seal was actually pretty good. I only resealed it because i was refreshing timing components and everything was open

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[Theiceman]

i think the most important point here is less is more.. i think we are all going to make sure surface is clean and dry so that wont be an issue .. these are machines surfaces and VERY little is required... too much could be disasterous in this case. personally i wouldn't do it and stay with anaerobic.

too much and excess will squeeze out, as they are machined surfaces there is almost nothing for the squeezed out stuff to hang on to .. so then it will harden and fall off... inside your head..

[mc_hotmail]

The ETKA catalog still shows D154103A1 sealant (green stuff) for 2010 A4 (B8) CAEB engine. I used this anaerobic sealant for my B7 BWT engine camshaft cage:



It's red and almost translucent. I slowly filled those tiny channels with less than 2mm wide bead for 10+ minutes. It hurts my hands. The exact words from the manual are:

– Apply an even, slightly projecting sealant bead into the clean groove of the retaining frame.

[Spawne32]

Anaerobic just means that it continues to cure in the absence of oxygen. I actually have Loctite 518 sitting around for this job assuming it ever comes to fruition.

[Smac770]

The ETKA catalog still shows D154103A1 sealant (green stuff) for 2010 A4 (B8) CAEB engine.

Shouldn't if the site is updated. Not updated clone sites like 7zap still show the D 154.... More recently updated clone sites like ilcats.ru now show the D 176....

[vwcc]

If you look at newer engines you can actually see black rtv like stuff. It looks and feels like a rtv silicone.
This is my wifes 2018 built TSI


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[RPMtech147]

Dealers are being told to go to the rtv type and sell it. Really seems like regular ultra black to me20220216_075623.jpg

For whatever reason, we stock the Benz version of that (I'm pretty sure it's the same stuff across the big 3 Euros)

Never had an issue sealing Audi heads with it.

I'm sure parts store "rightstuff" would work just as well.

Whatever VAG used from the factory, at least a few years ago, to seal the two head halves, that stuff is awful to clean. It's rock hard. Nothing takes it off so I have to sit there with a hand full of razor blades, picks, and scotch-bright to minimize scoring on the sealing surfaces.

[Theiceman]

For whatever reason, we stock the Benz version of that (I'm pretty sure it's the same stuff across the big 3 Euros)

Never had an issue sealing Audi heads with it.

I'm sure parts store "rightstuff" would work just as well.

Whatever VAG used from the factory, at least a few years ago, to seal the two head halves, that stuff is awful to clean. It's rock hard. Nothing takes it off so I have to sit there with a hand full of razor blades, picks, and scotch-bright to minimize scoring on the sealing surfaces.

Yup same crap they use the cradle of b7. You spend more time cleaning than fixing it seems.

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[Smac770]

Maybe VAG figured "it was a good thought, but let's get back to how everyone else is doing it"? Not to mention a lower cost.

[Koehn]

Bringing this thread back as I'm planning on resealing the cam cover in my CPMA soon while I'm in there for my timing chains. Is there a resolution between the choice of using D154103A1 (anaerobic) vs D176501A1 (silicone)? I'm choosing between Permatex 51031 and Elring Dirko Grey as they each seem to be the best in their categories.

Because the catalogue was updated to use the silicone then I feel like that's a good path forward. But I don't want to cause myself problems in the future! Any techs in here with experience of using both?

[Theiceman]

Bringing this thread back as I'm planning on resealing the cam cover in my CPMA soon while I'm in there for my timing chains. Is there a resolution between the choice of using D154103A1 (anaerobic) vs D176501A1 (silicone)? I'm choosing between Permatex 51031 and Elring Dirko Grey as they each seem to be the best in their categories.

Because the catalogue was updated to use the silicone then I feel like that's a good path forward. But I don't want to cause myself problems in the future! Any techs in here with experience of using both?

i'd just go with dirko .. but be warned .. less is more ....

[Koehn]

Oh dang! That's exactly what I'm worried about haha

[S-Liner]

Loctite 574


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[Theiceman]

Loctite 574


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lol thats exactly what i used.. been using it forever,, expensive .. but i like it and it works. But im Cheap and had it leftover from my Porsche Build

[S-Liner]

Yup, it’s good stuff. Used it for my VW 2 liter aircooled build


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[ThatGuy01]

For whatever reason, we stock the Benz version of that (I'm pretty sure it's the same stuff across the big 3 Euros)

Never had an issue sealing Audi heads with it.

I'm sure parts store "rightstuff" would work just as well.

Whatever VAG used from the factory, at least a few years ago, to seal the two head halves, that stuff is awful to clean. It's rock hard. Nothing takes it off so I have to sit there with a hand full of razor blades, picks, and scotch-bright to minimize scoring on the sealing surfaces.

This is interesting. I work for Stellantis and we use the exact same compound. A gray silicone Rtv that comes out as a rubber-like substance and cures almost as hard as JB weld lol.