P2293 fuel pressure regulator valve Diagnosis

[Armagon]

Hi, first, i'm a proffessional tech.
I ran into a problem with a customer's car and i don't know how to solve my issue.

So basically, when i WOT, the high pressure supply starves (see the logs)
i changed the HPFP, the LPFP, fuel filter with integrated FPR, Pressure limiting valve, high pressure sensor. I used the bosh one 0 261 545 059.
I read many forums here where someone solved his problem by changing the battery, put a bigger battery in there since the battery was allready not big enough and wrong type.
An other one cleaned his cam sensor and solved it, so i did it anyways since i have nothing to lose.
Touched the 2 poles together to do a hard reset.

Timing belt is new, camshaft is new, pump piston is new. i basically opened everything to make it new.

Problem still there, as soon as i WOT, it starves and P2293 appears.

The car came in initially to upgrade turbo with a bigger ( K04) which i did with a downpipe. I also tuned it so i thought it could be the tune, but i put it back like it was and no change.

[Jay-Bee]

Does it have all the fueling mods to support K04 because your lambda control/fuel trim is maxing out during it too.

What is the tune setup for? Likely S3 injectors and HPFP upgrade

[Armagon]

On this log, it is not tuned, i removed the tune to see if it was the problem.
Would clogged injectors produce such a problem, if lambda is maxing out, the ecm would lower the fuel pressure ?
O2 sensor is also new by the way

[Jayz691]

Was this problem there before changing rail sensor? Did you replace with same color sensor(black or orange)? You said about replacing hpfp, but then say internals are new. So did you replace the whole pump? Also, I would log the low side along with it. A bad low side will starve the high side.

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[Armagon]

As soon you ask, as soon you get, i allready had a log woth lpfp, didn't botter showing it because all is new and i knew it was ok anyways. But here you are:


I replaced the whole HPHP and whole LPFP with piston and camshaft.
The sensor i used is the bosch part number 0 261 545 059 which is equivalent to 06j 906 051C which is the black sensor. I read that the orang sensor is good for 90 bar so i think i'm good.
The only thing is that the new sensor is shorter than the old one but as i've seen on forums, it dooesn't appear to be a problem.

I have a doubt about the cam at the end of camshaft, i pressed the new cam lobe on. I am wondering if at higher stress/RPM the cam lobe would spin on the camshaft, something that never happened before as i often replaced the lobe only instead of the whole camshaft.

[Jayz691]

The black sensor is 139bar, the orange is 200bar, but needs tuned in if changing. If you had the black(139bar) sensor, and installed an orange(200bar) sensor, thats your issue. If not, then gotta look farther. Curious, where you buy the lobe itself? Seen them sold with roller conversions, but not seperate. I guess its possible its slipping, but I would doubt it. Maybe mark it, and check to see if it moves?

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[Armagon]

Usually, i buy the whole camshaft and press the lobe out and interchange it with the new one. I find it funny that we can't get only the lobe by itself since it's easy to replace with proper tools.
I have the black sensor btw. I'll see if i can remove the air pump and picture the position of the lobe on the end of camshaft test drive it and remove it again to see if it moved without marking it.
I don't want to remove it AGAIN

I can't tell how many times i removed the hpfp...

But other than that, no clue as to what it could be ? Next step is to take fuel ril out and check it with my eyes...

[Armagon]

I was looking at the codes that i printed and once every while when i test drive it, a P0299 lights up after the p2293, can the p0299 make the p2293 happen ?

p0299 boost pressure regulation

[Jayz691]

I was looking at the codes that i printed and once every while when i test drive it, a P0299 lights up after the p2293, can the p0299 make the p2293 happen ?

p0299 boost pressure regulation

No, low boost won't effect fuel pressure. But prob possible for the fuel issue to cause low boost issue, but not sure. Why do you swap the lobe, if you buy a new cam?? Seems like an extra chance for something to go wrong. Do you always make sure the tri-lobe is set in the same,position as the old one? Think I rem reading that it does actually need to be timed correctly. But can't say 100%, just rem seeing this. Do you have all supporting mods for the k04? S3 injectors, hpfp upgrade, rs4 prv, etc? Also, what tune ya running? I was having same issue when I had the wrong tune on my car. When I tried running a BPG tune on my BWT. Soon as id get on it, my high pressure would drop, fuel cut, and limp mode. So curious of your full setup, and tune?

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[Armagon]

I think i put the cam lob in place like it was but honnestly, i don't think it can affect the performance since all it does is 3 reciprocating movement every 2 crankshaft turns.

About the tune, i am affilated with a tuner in Europe. Belgium to be exact. I do the read and write with a kessv2, send it to him and he reprograms what has to be done.
About the modifications, we didn't do anything yet. The goal was to make it work porperly, then to upgrade fuel pump and injectors afterward.
Here is a link to my tuner's page :

https://www.x-performance.be/

On his page, he show standart tunes but when i want something more specific, he does what i ask, dts removal, v-max, whatever i want.

The reason forchanging the cam lobe is because i don't need to undo the timing and the front of the car. It's pretty straight forward to do it that way.

For now the car runs on oem tune, i removed the tune jsut to see if it was the problem. There is no tune anymore and still does the same, so that make me think.

[Jayz691]

So you swap the cam lobe, with cam still installed? Curious how thats done. I thought the orientation of the tri-lobe didn't matter either. Then rem it coming up in a thread somewhere, and a few people saying it does matter. So can't say for sure, just saying what ive heard. Something about pulse or somethin. Also, ya have some,variables, running a bigger turbo without any supporting hardware.. Should install the minimum hpfp, injectors, etc. Could be the turbo flowing bunch more air, ecu trying to correct AFR by adding fuel(25% correction), and hpfp not able to keep up. Thats why there are certain supporting mods that are needed. Ya may just be chasing your tail on this, till ya get the correct hardware. Also, did ya buy a Hitachi or genuine hpfp? Seen a fee people buy cheapo ones and have similar fuel cuts. Think the regulator just didn't work right on the cheap pump. Hew Hitachi, and was fixed.

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[Armagon]

the pump is a brand new hitachi.
You raise a good point about air quantity sucked by turbo but at the same time, I don't even get boost, the car doesn't pull. Whatever the turbo that is thrown in there, the ecu should see the boost through the map sensor and adjust the wastegate through tje N75.
And even if it would boost, it should pull a bit before getting lean because of fuel starvation.

Now the car is not tuned so it should act as an oem turbo probably slower responce since the turbine is a bit bigger.
Just sharing my opinion on this...

[Older_not_Wiser]

Is the HPFP the banjo fitting or the flexible hose with the barbed fitting at each end with a hose clamp?

It may be a bit of a long shot, but I seem to recall a post from a guy with the low side hose to the HPFP having starvation problems because the hose had been on and off so many times to change the cam follower that it had developed a flap of rubber on the inside that partially blocked flow from the low side.

Perplexing problem. The only other thing I can think of is wrong or bad rail sensor.

[Jayz691]

Is the HPFP the banjo fitting or the flexible hose with the barbed fitting at each end with a hose clamp?

It may be a bit of a long shot, but I seem to recall a post from a guy with the low side hose to the HPFP having starvation problems because the hose had been on and off so many times to change the cam follower that it had developed a flap of rubber on the inside that partially blocked flow from the low side.

Perplexing problem. The only other thing I can think of is wrong or bad rail sensor.

May have been me. I mention that a lot. But hes getting good rradings at the low pressure sensor, so no issue there. This would restrict fuel before the sensor, showing low pressure on the low side.1003190238a.jpg

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[Jayz691]

the pump is a brand new hitachi.
You raise a good point about air quantity sucked by turbo but at the same time, I don't even get boost, the car doesn't pull. Whatever the turbo that is thrown in there, the ecu should see the boost through the map sensor and adjust the wastegate through tje N75.
And even if it would boost, it should pull a bit before getting lean because of fuel starvation.

Now the car is not tuned so it should act as an oem turbo probably slower responce since the turbine is a bit bigger.
Just sharing my opinion on this...

Maybe try logging rail pressure, boost, and afr(lambda). Also, check your MAF readings at idle, see if something is off there. But again, I think its tricky cuz we know the hardware isn't correct..

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[Armagon]

I'll log the maf reading at idle and do some logs about boost and rail pressure.

What do you mean when you say hardware is not correct ? turbo is not the right one ?

I have the banjo bolt design so no issue there.

[Jayz691]

I'll log the maf reading at idle and do some logs about boost and rail pressure.

What do you mean when you say hardware is not correct ? turbo is not the right one ?

I have the banjo bolt design so no issue there.

Meaning running a k04, without supporting hardware, as in fueling upgrades..

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[Armagon]

Maybe try logging rail pressure, boost, and afr(lambda). Also, check your MAF readings at idle, see if something is off there. But again, I think its tricky cuz we know the hardware isn't correct..

If the turbo is bigger and there is no tune, i thought that the ECU wouldn't see it and boost just like it should with no tune ? right ?
But I'll try and get those logs soon. Can you tell me which channel is for boost pressure ? never dug into that so not sure if i'll find it fast.
thank you

[Jay-Bee]

If the turbo is bigger and there is no tune, i thought that the ECU wouldn't see it and boost just like it should with no tune ? right ?
But I'll try and get those logs soon. Can you tell me which channel is for boost pressure ? never dug into that so not sure if i'll find it fast.
thank you

The N75 duty cycle and wastegate spring setup might make it spaz out a bit, but if the ECU maps are fully stock it should try and stay on target for boost as best it can but will probably be spikey at light throttle, and 12psi on a K04 will push a bit more airflow than a k03 @ 12psi.

[Jayz691]

If the turbo is bigger and there is no tune, i thought that the ECU wouldn't see it and boost just like it should with no tune ? right ?
But I'll try and get those logs soon. Can you tell me which channel is for boost pressure ? never dug into that so not sure if i'll find it fast.
thank you

As jay-bee said, it "should" keep boost in check, on stock file. But same boost pressure will flow more air. Which may be why your ECU is needing to correct so much. Hard to say, but its variables. Boost pressure is block 115, n75 is in 119. And if you could possibly post a link to the whole log, that would help to.

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[Armagon]

how/where can i host a file ? never done that before. I used to use photobucket for picture hosting but now i use facebook as it's much easier to do.
So basically, i log block 230, 115 and 119, host it somewhere and put the link here ?

By the way, thanks a lot guys for the time you spend helping me figure this out.

[Jay-Bee]

how/where can i host a file ? never done that before. I used to use photobucket for picture hosting but now i use facebook as it's much easier to do.
So basically, i log block 230, 115 and 119, host it somewhere and put the link here ?

By the way, thanks a lot guys for the time you spend helping me figure this out.

I use Tunezilla log file viewer, makes them super easy to view and select what info you want to graph.

https://log.tunezilla.com/

[Armagon]

[Armagon]

when i open the throttle, it falls on its face. Today there was snow and the car is on summer tires so i wasn't ableto do what i wanted but that gives an idea

[Older_not_Wiser]

Your earlier data seemed to show that the low side fuel pressure was fine when the high side actual fuel pressure took a dive.
Could the fuel rail pressure relief valve be bad? Cracking much lower than it is supposed to?
I think the stock PRV is supposed to crack at 120 bar or around there.
It looks like the high side actual holds 109 bar for a bit then collapses, then recovers and tracks the requested again until the next time requested wants 109 bar.

[Armagon]

This is a good point, on which i allready wenth through. I changed the PRV, that was actually the last part i changed before coming to the forum asking for help.
I doubt the PRV would be deffective...

[Armagon]

I was wondering about the turbo code i had, p0299, so i took the car in to check the operation of the wastegate actuator and decided to start on an actuation test of the N75. It does not click.

The N75 doesn't click so ordered it, will change it tomorrow and go from there.