2.0 TFSI Water Pump Removal ONLY w/o Housing?

[Kolbenringe]

I'm currently in the DIY thread for replacement of the water pump, but my question there might not have the visibility:

Can the water pump be removed separately from the housing while the housing is still attached to the engine? There's a pic in the main thread and it looks tight to try and slide the pump out there and I can't find any info anywhere regarding if this is possible.

Long story short- I have just under 40k km on a Graf metal pump and housing and the pump is leaking. New pump is on the way, I would like to leave the housing in place and just pull the pump and throw the new one on. In case I have to, I have new gaskets, o-rings, and a connector pipe on order, but I would prefer to avoid it.

Can anyone confirm or deny that the pump can be removed from the housing without removing the housing from the engine?

Previous thread: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...mp-Replacement

[findalex]

I don't believe you can. There are 5 bolts that mount the water pump to the housing and I don't think there is enough room to reach the ones that's closest to the engine block. But maybe Audi makes a $1000 tool to do just that. Just like you have to use a special torque wrench to torque the bolt for the balance shaft/water pump belt. There is just no space to work in there.

[mrg_B8TFSi]

Yep and the leak is likely the gasket on the block which the entire housing needs to come off to expose the gasket.. these modular water pumps are really not too difficult to do, easy by removing throttle body, and the crossover pipe to the heater core after disconnecting the temp sensor the entire unit can come out.. also I’d recommend to be very gentle on prying off the belt.. I’d replace entire unit with OEM


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[Kolbenringe]

Yep and the leak is likely the gasket on the block which the entire housing needs to come off to expose the gasket.. these modular water pumps are really not too difficult to do, easy by removing throttle body, and the crossover pipe to the heater core after disconnecting the temp sensor the entire unit can come out.. also I’d recommend to be very gentle on prying off the belt.. I’d replace entire unit with OEM


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Ummm, no. My failure is definitely the water pump itself, confirmed with a camera, and not the gasket for the back of the housing. These items were replaced like 40k km ago because the OEM housing began leaking at around 100k km and NOT on the back side. Mine was cracked in the middle between the two coolant pipes. See pics for proof that they fail in other ways.

https://imgur.com/XEO8vDd
https://imgur.com/1b4t8Ti

In my case, the coolant is coming from under the pulley cover and nowhere else. I would be happy to use OEM if it weren't for the fact that my oem housing didn't last very long. No clue if Audi sells a metal pump only, but I ordered an SKF and have their parts all over my car and I've been very happy.

This is the cap from a video I made to track the leak on the pump and housing that's on the car now. It's clearly coming from under the belt drive cover: https://imgur.com/yfeRTHr

[bb-tt]

I'm currently in the DIY thread for replacement of the water pump, but my question there might not have the visibility:

Can the water pump be removed separately from the housing while the housing is still attached to the engine? There's a pic in the main thread and it looks tight to try and slide the pump out there and I can't find any info anywhere regarding if this is possible.

Long story short- I have just under 40k km on a Graf metal pump and housing and the pump is leaking. New pump is on the way, I would like to leave the housing in place and just pull the pump and throw the new one on. In case I have to, I have new gaskets, o-rings, and a connector pipe on order, but I would prefer to avoid it.

Can anyone confirm or deny that the pump can be removed from the housing without removing the housing from the engine?

Previous thread: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...mp-Replacement

This seams like a situation where you will spend 3 hours trying to get it out to try and avoid 1 hour of work just replacing the assembly.

[Kolbenringe]

This seams like a situation where you will spend 3 hours trying to get it out to try and avoid 1 hour of work just replacing the assembly.

This is what is kind of where I'm going with this- I've been prepping to remove the whole thing and split the pump off on the bench. I have new seals for the back side, the heater core pipe, and a new oil cooler fitting on order as well. A new fitting was installed with the new pump, but I'm not going to scrimp on two Euros here. This area has been a problem long enough.

Also can anyone confirm the bolt torque for the waterpump to housing? I've seen between 9-14NM. I'm not sure if the higher number is when switching to aluminum or an error.

[Smac770]

There is no spec for the bolts holding the impeller plate to the main housing for the Gen2 version (06H...) as Audi has no support for separating those components. The Gen3 version (06K...) does support this, and has a set torque sequence to 9Nm. But that number means nothing, high or low, when you're dealing with a housing of a completely different material (and it doesn't even mean anything for the Gen2 version of the pump either).

If your housing and impeller are Graf metal, you should contact Graf and ask the torque spec and sequence they use to attach the two, assuming it's not in their documentation. Graf appears to have no company web site and no support materials on the Internet? What kind of company is that in 202x?

[DrGER]

Graf appears to have no company web site and no support materials on the Internet? What kind of company is that in 202x?

Likely due to being a brand of Metelli Group: https://www.metelligroup.it/en/Brands/Graf
Maybe something useful here: https://www.metelligroup.it/en/Support/Handbooks

[Kolbenringe]

Likely due to being a brand of Metelli Group: https://www.metelligroup.it/en/Brands/Graf
Maybe something useful here: https://www.metelligroup.it/en/Support/Handbooks

It's funny that I was actually comparing photos to try and match who was making what and Metelli was the one that came up with identical patterns and features on the pump.

[Kolbenringe]

Graf and Metelli pumps. They even have a similar numbering schema.

https://www.pkwteile.de/graf/7823299

https://www.pkwteile.de/metelli/7670319

I just hope SKF didn't repackage a trash pump. They are definitely different enough: https://www.pkwteile.de/skf/7961611 Though the SKF appears to resemble Marelli's pump: https://www.pkwteile.de/magneti-marelli/9619707

Swag and Febi Bilstein are likely the same (also appear to be a different from other manfacturers) and Meyle seems to have significantly different construction and they're pulling that "HD" crap here, too: https://www.pkwteile.de/meyle/7625618

[mtroxel]

I've been trading notes with Kolbenringe over in the DIY thread here. Like him, I have the piece of shit Graf aluminum housing and pump (hereinafter, P.O.S.). I've had the P.O.S. off - twice - trying to solve a constant slow leak since day one. I had thought it was the housing to the block too. 46,000 miles later, I know its not. Coming out of the pump shaft area.

I'm about to the point where I don't want to drain all the coolant and get in there behind that plumbing unless I just swap out the whole damn leaky P.O.S.

Smac is right. There are no torque specs for the pump because Audi doesn't sell a pump. Just the whole housing with stat and CTS. This is all you get from the Audi repair manual.

[Kolbenringe]

as far as similar-sized bolts, we have for instance timing cover bolts, BUT they go through stamped steel and into cast iron and then a stretch is recommended. I'm going to wager that about 15NM might do the trick without causing damage to the threads during heat cycles and provided we have similar grades of aluminum. I sent an email to Metelli's tech department asking them what they torque those bolts to from the factory. I would be shocked to get a reply, but it's worth a shot. If I don't get a response, I will go by feel and make sure it's torqued evenly all the way around.

Are there any experts in the Audi world that one might be able to reach out to?

And like you, I am pretty positive my pump was leaking from brand fucking new. I never had to top the engine off before, even with the old, leaky housing. Then I noted after a few weeks, I had to top off the car. None during my last trip to the Arctic in the summer, once in between and before the trip two weeks ago, and then on the way down. True, this is covering 3000km each way in 40 hours, so there's no time for the crust to develop and to clear away, but anyhow, this PoS has been leaking since the first fucking day. I even had to buy G13 for the first time.

If you have a Graf or Metelli pump, or anyone that is rebadging them (I think some dealers in the US are doing that and got flamed for it, but not sure), get your phone in there and take video and verify.

[Kolbenringe]

I'm checking around through various manufacturers, the only concern is aluminum to aluminum and I'm seeing this range pop up of about 14-15NM.

This is not the same, but I'm looking for trends: https://blogvager.files.wordpress.co...a3_qsb_web.pdf

Page 31 also lists 15NM.

There are numerous other references in the VW world for water pumps being in this range. The replacement pump won't arrive until Monday and I don't know if there will be notes inside. I could contact SKF, but I doubt I'll hear back or that they will know.

[Kolbenringe]

I received the SKF pump- it's made in Spain, has no instructions, the QR code where supposedly instructions are available doesn't help at all.

I also noted that one of the paired holes underneath and to the left of the pulley has a channel cut to the o-ring channel. I guess it's there for when the O-ring begins to fail and it then leads the coolant away and/or allows a small amount of pressure equalization.

I'm probably just going to torque everything by feel and a max of 14 NM or so. The exception will be the crossover, which I'll keep in the 9-10 range. I also noted in a pic of the Rein water pump kit that the two short bolts they supply are loctited already. Normally, I loctite everything I fix, but in this case I was planning to do without, but might actually do so.

[mtroxel]

I look forward to hearing if it can be done. If not, once you get to that point its really not that much more work to just pull the housing too.

[Kolbenringe]

I look forward to hearing if it can be done. If not, once you get to that point its really not that much more work to just pull the housing too.

I don't feel like wasting time, tbh. I'm kind of sick of all this and I have other things to do, like the door lock sensors, getting the DSG fluid changed, and probably other crap, so I'm just going to go right in, pull the housing, swap the pumps, and be done with it. It's disappointing to myself as well, but I really am not into this whole experience anymore and just want it over with. I'll drain as much of the coolant as possible from the radiator and hope that's good enough reduce the mess. As for the pump in the car, I didn't drive the car and a second leak stream opened up. I lost about a half-liter.

[findalex]

there's a coolant flange in the rear of the engine, underneath the vacuum pump, that likes to crack with age and leak coolant. You can check that.

[Kolbenringe]

Job is done, I took my time, took forever. It was messy on account of the valve in the radiator having done nothing. I tried to see if there was a blockage, no difference. IMO, the prospect of pulling the pump without the housing is not impossible, but absolutely would suck. I think it's possible with those mini bit ratchets, but getting the leverage is tough. Maybe the swivel-head one that Toptul and Facom market might work there. I confirmed that I can get behind there. It's much harder to confirm if there's clearance and I was pretty spent and didn't try a mock up because the biggest problem is the belt. That was really tough to get on then somehow it went on like nothing after I even took a break because I couldn't get it on. For some reason, the pump was on with awful, shallow hex bolts and they got pretty mangled, so I pulled the OEM ones off the original pump. I tightened all the bolts down to 12NM and used loctite, as there was evidence of it there before. The crossover I kept at 9NM. The throttle body I basically bottomed out and gave it a couple degrees more. I lost only one screw for that plastic bracket that holds on the three plugs at the back of the intake manifold. Will figure out what it is and then order it from Audi or the hardware store. Unfortunately, I spent a long time trying to fish it out blind with the magnet and could not find it. The only other thing I lost was a plastic safety wedge for the temp sensor so the plug doesn't pop off despite the lock. I saw it, tried to fish it up, no chance. It's gone and will end up in the belly pan.

Other notes: OE Elring seal for the housing has a tab on it cut for the plastic housing. I just cut it as flush as I could. I don't know if it's the supposed oil-resistant revision. I bought a pack of generic o-rings for the crossover. The pump housing was kind of wedged on the dowels and I couldn't really do much with it, so I progressively eased it in by bolting a couple threads at a time on each of the points. I would apply silicone grease to the dowels to help prevent the pump from sticking.

Also confirmed my expansion tank from 2010 and a "G" revision has a silica pack in the forward chamber. I will also confirm a test fit of the SKF pump didn't interfere with the Graf/Metelli housing.

As for the failure: the pump did not leak through the weep hole. It was coming out of the shaft area under the pulley.

Edit: The screw I lost somewhere is likely the one mentioned as item 55/56: https://audi.7zap.com/en/rdw/audi+a4...971-971025/#56 due to the leverage, I think I'm going to just replace the screw.

Now for the tally on my luck with water pumps and housings:
-OE housing from factory cracked in the middle. No issues with sealing flange. Was ionly discovered after ordering a proactive replacement during an oil consumption rebuild.
-after the new housing and water pump were installed, I noticed the heat worked at a lower temperature setting and appeared to have discernible heat levels. I also noted that oil temperatures went up to the 100c range and in some cases to 121 in the summer, but then would drop down. Previously, the oil temps were in the 90s and while driving downhill on alpine passes in Switzerland, I'd notice the oil temps would drop into the low 80s and overall would take forever to get up to temp sometimes. I believe that I had a defective OE housing from the factory in addition to the crack. Likely the thermostat was stuck partially open.
-blown Graf pump at the shaft

Overall, it didn't go terrible, but it didn't go smooth, and it wasn't anywhere close to a 20 minute water pump change like on YT.

[Kolbenringe]

@mtroxel-

I reflected on this job a bit and since you're planning to do it yourself, I am urging you to order the water pump to housing bolts. Metelli cheaped out on mine and they were some really sketchy bolts of soft metal, shallow, and I still can't tell if they were torx or hex. Some took hex, some took torx. This isn't even a joke. One was so far out of spec that it was beginning to round out and I couldn't get any torque value on it. I remembered I had the OE pump, so took the bolts from there. Just complete trash.

It can't hurt to order others for when they fall, but I think it's critical to have at least those on hand.

As far as the bracket bolt goes, I went to the hardware store, found a 6x20 cap screw, bought two 2mm shims, and screwed it in. No issue and maybe it cost like 27 cents.

[Kolbenringe]

I'm shocked. Metelli actually replied and I'm pretty happy I'm in range. High side of the range, but now we finally have a reference somewhere on the internet for the aluminum pump to aluminum housing bolts:

Technical Assistance <[email protected]>
9:51 AM (2 hours ago)
to me

Good morning,

The torque is 10 / 12 Nm

Be careful to tighten the bolt in crossing way



Best regards







Tiziano Rotelli

After sales Technical support



Metelli S.p.A.

Via Bonotto, 3/5 - 25033 Cologne (BS) - Italy

Tel. *+39 030 705711 - Fax +39 030 7057237

Reg. Imp. BS - C.F. - P. IVA IT01517740989

R.E.A. 316597 - Cap. Soc. € 15.000.000 i.v.

Again, the bolts Metelli uses are garbage and should be seen as one-time use. If you replace the Graf or Metelli garbage pump, but keep the housing, order new bolts, tighten to 10-12NM.

[mtroxel]

Thanks for the report. I had already decided to just pull the damn housing off.....yet again....to put a new pump on. As for the crappy pump bolts, is there any reason I can't just re-use the current Graf pump bolts? They certainly not torque to yield by any means.

[Kolbenringe]

Thanks for the report. I had already decided to just pull the damn housing off.....yet again....to put a new pump on. As for the crappy pump bolts, is there any reason I can't just re-use the current Graf pump bolts? They certainly not torque to yield by any means.

You may certainly use them, but in my case, I was completely sketched out by them. They're poorly made, soft metal and shallow, my sockets (good quality Koken, Felo, Gedore, and Bondhus) weren't engaging right, some were taking a hex, some took torx, and one already rounded and getting any correct torque was impossible. I really think they made them for one-time use. Not in the TTY way, but in the way of being so shitty and to save money. It's also smart to have some extra bolts on hand just in case some fall. I dropped on TB screw and couldn't see where it went, but I was able to fish it out from somwhere after a good portion of an hour on and off. It's also helpful to use a magnet while pulling some bolts off. I have an electric 1/4 ratchet and I decided to not use it soon after starting. I just had no control. Have some XZN sockets for the intake manifold mounting bracket.

Try to have the magnet nearby for stuff like the crossover pipe bolt at the housing and at the back of the engine, the two housing mount bolts at the temp sensor, and the cover for the belt. The o-ring for the crossover pipe is a ID 20mmx3mm thick NBR type. I got a pack of 10 for what Audi wanted for 1.5. Mine wasn't replaced when the engine was out and it was starting to flatten. The small pipe to the oil cooler costs 1.86 EURO here. I recommend replacing it just based on the cost, though my original pipe and the seals were still great and the previous new one was likewise also great. Some may use silicone grease to install, but I just dipped it in coolant and there was absolutely no issue.

Another thing is to take your time putting the pump back in and make sure nothing is behind it when tightening and that the seal hasn't popped out. You'll be trying to wrestle with the belt and repositioning the whole unit. The job doesn't take that long so you have time to invest to make sure you get it right once and for all.

Have you decided what pump you're going to use?

I used this video as a guide for the tools and procedure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3TfykE4uFo

It didn't go nearly as smoothly, mostly due to the belt. I definitely was glad I got a pick set. You won't come anywhere near 20 minutes and you shouldn't want to, IMO. I also don't agree about not reinstalling the bracket that this guy previously removed. It takes no time to remove it and reinstall and looks like it actually keeps the IM from sagging over time.

Tools used:
1/4 long handle flex ratchet
short t30 socket, long Bondhus t30 bit on a socket
various 1/4 extenders to get the clearance right
XZN socket (don't remember what size) on a 3/8 ratchet and extender (maybe 120mm) to get the lower bracket bolt off, conventional socket for the upper bolt (forgot what size, either 10 or 13mm)
magnet
I had one XZN bolt holding the belt cover on, but I think that's just from the rebuild
Pick set
Brake cleaner
Hex bits for those shitty Graf-Metelli bolts. Still don't know if they are hex or torx.
threadlocker
Torque wrench

I also used a t30 screwdriver to avoid losing bolts as I threaded them in.

The Graf pump out. As one may see, the weep hole at the top is dry. The leak was coming from under the pulley, so don't know if there's an additional weep hole there or it it was going through the shaft. The bearings feel very good and it feels like the seals are still tight: https://imgur.com/4YvEOa8 https://imgur.com/YHjXj0C

[mtroxel]

Haven't really shopped for pumps yet. I'm hoping to wait till I can do it outside...and that's not happening around here for a couple months any way.

That little belt doesn't give me any trouble. I just slide the whole housing back to disengage the union, then I can tip the front of the housing out and just pull the pump out of that belt.

[Kolbenringe]

Haven't really shopped for pumps yet. I'm hoping to wait till I can do it outside...and that's not happening around here for a couple months any way.

That little belt doesn't give me any trouble. I just slide the whole housing back to disengage the union, then I can tip the front of the housing out and just pull the pump out of that belt.

ahh, ok. So you have done it already, so disregard what I wrote. At the very least, there's some accompanying information for the torque values when one searches for it.

[Kolbenringe]

It's incredible how annoying this is. I've been checking daily since the repair, haven't driven much, though. Maybe max 30km. I even cleaned this area yesterday and drove on the highway and it was dry. I check it today and it's been weeping. I think it's not leaking when running, but leaks when off drops at a time. I would have hoped the seals would have broken in by now. I tried videoing and saw no source, but I can only guess it's the seals not fully broken in and some coolant still weeping. This is so incredibly annoying.

https://imgur.com/jg256oj

Edit: I traced it and the coolant is coming off the block in very small amounts and is visible in the gap between the block and the cover for the pump and is trickling down from there. From the looks of the construction, the coolant is likely coming from the weep hole and running to toward the block, then down. I haven't driven the car much, so I will wait and see if this reduces or goes up. It's not much, and maybe it will stop soon.

View of the pump and the weep hole: https://vehicleaftermarket.skf.com/m...ucts/VKPC81242

[mtroxel]

I even cleaned this area yesterday and drove on the highway and it was dry. I check it today and it's been weeping.

No offense, but I can't tell you how happy I am to read this. I thought I was just too stupid to get this right. I've had it off twice since I installed it, and it still leaks.

the coolant is coming off the block in very small amounts and is visible in the gap between the block and the cover for the pump and is trickling down from there.

Same here. A year or two ago, I thought it was leaking from the gasket to the block. Now its pretty obvious its from the pump shaft or that weep hole. And then it pools on that same little ledge just below the crank sensor (I assume that's what that sensor is) and looks up at me and laughs. Maybe I should break down and buy the OEM style housing/pump/stat thing. At least those last about 70K miles. This Graf train wreck lasted about 20 minutes.

[Kolbenringe]

No offense, but I can't tell you how happy I am to read this. I thought I was just too stupid to get this right. I've had it off twice since I installed it, and it still leaks.



Same here. A year or two ago, I thought it was leaking from the gasket to the block. Now its pretty obvious its from the pump shaft or that weep hole. And then it pools on that same little ledge just below the crank sensor (I assume that's what that sensor is) and looks up at me and laughs. Maybe I should break down and buy the OEM style housing/pump/stat thing. At least those last about 70K miles. This Graf train wreck lasted about 20 minutes.

The thing is my coolant level is not appreciably changing, the weepage is not happening during driving at all which I confirmed twice. It's just when I left the car alone for over a day in the garage I saw that weepage because I want to be totally sure. It's not even dripping onto the ground. I'm going to drive a bit and see what happens because it's a very low volume coming out. Likely a drop on occasion when the vent hole fills. The thing is ALL water pumps will possibly drip in the beginning until the seals break in. Sometimes it can be longer, Since this is such a small amount, I'll monitor it and see what happens and report back. I have a strong feeling that this is normal weepage and I'm noticing because I'm busy sticking cameras in there to make sure I have no leaks from the mounting surfaces.

[Kolbenringe]

Ok, so I cleaned the area earlier, did some errands, no sign of coolant collecting in that pocket. I just did a test run of 100km on the Autobahn, varied speeds a lot from cruising to hammering a top speed run to make sure I got everything as hot as possible, no leaking halfway. I came back home, same. I will check tomorrow to see what's up. I have to stress the amount is very small- I likely lost in the range of about <40ml and the level in my bottle hasn't really changed thus far after the first couple of days when short trips would purge out air pockets.

[Kolbenringe]

So the car sat for more than a day, coolant is there, but way less than before. This is not based on driving, but directly proportional to sitting time. It sat longer than before and the amount is lower. To some extent, an amount I can live with if it doesn't stop immediately, but if it doesn't stop in the coming week, I will start the reclamation process. There's another problem now: most of the pumps in the OEM/aftermarket are not available and even the SKF is not available anymore. I can't find Bosch anymore. There are only really local/regional firms and lower-cost suppliers available. I would love to try a Dolz pump out again like I had on my 200 TQ which lasted well beyond around 180k MILES before I stripped the car down, but I don't know if they moved downscale or not. Continental has a pump, but no idea who makes it. Same for Gates and Dayco who all seem to sell their belts by including a pump with them.

[elscotto80]

Interesting... I've noticed that I am leaking a very small amount of coolant as well when it sits. No over heating either. I do have the graf metal housing pump that's been on for about a year and didn't notice any leaking until a few weeks ago. I did top up the coolant a couple of times and now am taking it to the shop to take a look.

I'll follow up with diagnosis once I hear next week.

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[Kolbenringe]

Interesting... I've noticed that I am leaking a very small amount of coolant as well when it sits. No over heating either. I do have the graf metal housing pump that's been on for about a year and didn't notice any leaking until a few weeks ago. I did top up the coolant a couple of times and now am taking it to the shop to take a look.

I'll follow up with diagnosis once I hear next week.

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If you can, try and make some video or still photos of the area. It's actually really easy, so long as you don't have insanely huge arms.

As for my situation, I drove some more around town, nothing major, let it idle some and warm up during it. The collecting area is not getting larger and it looks more like the coolant is evaporating and concentrating. The groove along the block on top is now dry, the housing for the crankcase ventilation cover is now dry, the crank sensor flange is dry. Both were pretty wet before. It appears to have stopped, but I will only say that tentatively. I will stress I didn't really lose much coolant, but enough to kind of notice because I've been staying on top of it. I hope this is a case of me just being super particular and sticking cameras in there, but I will state that I smelled coolant outside the car which sparked me to look because it went well beyond washing the engine off. It still smells of coolant.

Photo from today: https://imgur.com/9zIQOJb

Note the groove between the belt housing and block is now dry and the wet line has moved down to basically where the coolant pools.

[elscotto80]

I'll take a look today when I get home. I have been smelling coolant as well which is new.

One issue is my stupid hood latch isn't working properly... Another reason it needs to go to the shop.

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[mtroxel]

Here's a pic of mine. it looks dry because....well, just like you it will leak for a day or so, then its fine for a week or two. But you can see it has come out from under that belt cover, by my red arrow then it drips down to that ledge below the crank sensor.

[Kolbenringe]

What a fucking shitshow this is.

[Kolbenringe]

Cleaned again. Went for a drive. Going to check it in the morning and see if I'm right or wrong about the weeping coming to a stop or see if we're going to have sometimes leaking, sometimes not behavior.

[Kolbenringe]

The entire area is now dry, the area above is dry, nothing. Stuck my camera in there, saw nothing anywhere. Not even darkness or outright wetness via capillary action, nothing. It could always be possible that it will happen again when that weep channel fills up and something comes out, but from the monitoring this past week, there should have been something in there, even though the volume was reducing over time. The coolant is also exactly where I want it- around 60% between min and max, and when the engine is fully warm in winter, the level goes to just under the max line, in summer this goes right to the max, so I'm happy. I'll mark it off and see what happens now. No more coolant smell, either.

If I don't check back, then one should take it to mean the SKF pumps will possibly do a step more than weep and then it's done. In my case, I also don't drive the car much, so I did the job, drove for a few minutes, parked it, left it for a couple days and that allowed a larger amount of coolant to weep out. I guess a couple hundred KM are needed before the seals fully break in.

Edit with pics:
https://imgur.com/GYzPZY0
https://imgur.com/8gcbYN7
https://imgur.com/WdMdwLs

The shelf area looks darker and shiny, but I ran my finger over it and it's dry and turns to that powder when the coolant dries. May be like 90% dry, but I also rinsed it last night with tons of water.

One may now see the reddish residue on the trail the coolant runs down, but the main thing is that the crank sensor is dry, the groove along the crank ventilation is dry and red. The higher points of the wetness all moved down as the source sealed and now I don't see anything.

[elscotto80]

Did not have a chance yesterday to check, will update when I can check or with what the shop finds.

What's interesting is it didn't leak or lose coolant from the expansion tank for 6-8 months. Then all of a sudden I'm seeing a small puddle and lower coolant levels.

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[Kolbenringe]

Did not have a chance yesterday to check, will update when I can check or with what the shop finds.

What's interesting is it didn't leak or lose coolant from the expansion tank for 6-8 months. Then all of a sudden I'm seeing a small puddle and lower coolant levels.

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That's usually how it goes. There's also the fact that the undertrays collect an amount of coolant and that might not be enough to drip down before you drive and it gets remove while the car is in motion. BTDT, including with oil leaks. A couple drips and drops won't show up and everyone thinks their cars aren't leaking until a threshold is reached. There's also a pressure situation with the cooling system and here, it likely just runs out when the system has some pressure in it exceeding the limit of the new seals or when they cool down, but there's some pressure within. Makes me wonder if I fill the coolant level to higher in the bottle if it will start leaking again because while the cap lets off pressure ultimately, there will be a steeper rise and potentially a spike before the relief.

And I hear you about not worrying about coolant- I didn't have to do much for like three years. Audi even kept topping my bottle off to max and I would extract it and use it when the graf pump began leaking which was right away.

[mtroxel]

Makes me wonder if I fill the coolant level to higher in the bottle if it will start leaking again because while the cap lets off pressure ultimately, there will be a steeper rise and potentially a spike before the relief.

I've had that same thought about mine. Since the leaking is so erratic, its hard to test it that way. It might leak with more coolant in the tank, or it might take a week or two or it might.....who knows? So just in case the pressure theory made any sense, I replaced my tank cap. Didn't solve a thing.

[elscotto80]

That's usually how it goes. There's also the fact that the undertrays collect an amount of coolant and that might not be enough to drip down before you drive and it gets remove while the car is in motion. BTDT, including with oil leaks. A couple drips and drops won't show up and everyone thinks their cars aren't leaking until a threshold is reached. There's also a pressure situation with the cooling system and here, it likely just runs out when the system has some pressure in it exceeding the limit of the new seals or when they cool down, but there's some pressure within. Makes me wonder if I fill the coolant level to higher in the bottle if it will start leaking again because while the cap lets off pressure ultimately, there will be a steeper rise and potentially a spike before the relief.

And I hear you about not worrying about coolant- I didn't have to do much for like three years. Audi even kept topping my bottle off to max and I would extract it and use it when the graf pump began leaking which was right away.

Good points. I did have major work done in September (new head) and obviously all fluids were replaced. I did notice after the work the coolant level seemed a little low and I topped it up here and there. It's possible I may have overfilled and it needed to go somewhere when pressurized. I also heard from time to time the gurgling behind the dash indicating an air pocket in the coolant lines. This was from October to December (seeing a small puddle randomly) as I was topping up and keeping an eye.

I am hopeful I simply overfilled and maybe there's still an air pocket that needs to be purged.

Car goes into the shop in one week.



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