SAI Delete DIY?

[tjb616]

Is there a good resource for SAI delete on these cars?

I have a Jackal tune to disable the CEL.
I have JHM block off plates.

But I'd rather not guess on the best ways to plug the million vacuum lines. I have lots of vacuum plugs handy but if there's a guide or someone willing to share their experience, it would save a lot of time and guesswork.

Here is the best resource I've found thus far:

https://forums.audirevolution.net/t/...ai-delete/5805

And a photo of the system:

[VinnysS4]

You can remove these vacuum lines (circled in blue) and cap off the vacuum line that feeds the solenoid. The rest of the SAi system can be removed

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[tjb616]

Thanks Vinny.

I'm deleting airbox and intake manifold flaps, also tuning out via Jackal tune.

Safe to say everything in the system above the horizontal pink line can be removed?

I have inquiries into Jackal as to if the 3 solenoids marked in pink can be removed or must remain plugged in with vac lines capped.

[VinnysS4]

Yep you should be able to remove just about everything. I have heard that removing the solenoids can cause a CEL. Not sure if they tune that part out or if it just sets the readiness monitors and shuts off the pump. I can say that I have removed everything except the solenoid and dont have issues. Only left the solenoid in (capped off) because it was easier than removing it.

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[tjb616]

Appreciate it, Vinny.

I’ll report back when I get an answer from Jackal regarding the solenoids.

Now to figure out how to get to the passenger side SAI port on the back of the block… looks like fun.

[Bronco212003]

I had the JHM tune with the SAI delete. I didn’t remove it or use block off plates. I just blocked off the pipe from the pump that went to the air intake filter area. Never had a problem.


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[VinnysS4]

Appreciate it, Vinny.

I’ll report back when I get an answer from Jackal regarding the solenoids.

Now to figure out how to get to the passenger side SAI port on the back of the block… looks like fun.

Yeah I cut this off of mine when it was out of the car. I'm sure its doable while the engine is in The car, but will be a pita.

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[3.2]

Any updates on this? In the process of carbon cleaning my rs4 right now and contemplating in doing the delete while back there to make things simpler

[jonan]

if you tune out the sai, i'd just remove the line that goes from the solenoid and t's off to connect to each off the sai pumps on the back of each back...leave the solenoid connected and put a vacuum cap on the male end of the connector...

[tjb616]

I disagree. Removing the entire vacuum and SAI system in the engine bay from the T in the divers fender (above liner) onward is easy and it frees up a lot of space. Remove the drivers fender liner and chase it through the bay around the PS pump. Removing the driver headlight helps but isn't necessary.

JHM sells the block-off plates (same for all 4.2.) They fit poorly, I had to slightly enlarge the holes to increase to total outer distance between the holes for it to fit the block well. Be careful and don't force it, it's an aluminum block you don't want to fuck up the threads.

The driver side can be reached on the back of the block easily from below the car with belly pan removed. It is an M8 TRIPLE SQUARE. Not torx or allen/6pt. The passenger side is extremely difficult to reach where it connects to the block. I put the block-off plate on the riser where gasket #8 is on the diagram in post 2 with the original hardware and 2 nylock nuts. It's the same pattern and gasket. I will remove the riser (part 11) and move the plate to the back of the block to match the passenger side when the motor is out.

I removed everything else except two solenoids (#4 from post 2 and N335 from post 3) which I left plugged into the harness with nipples capped off. Jackal didn't mention if this was necessary or not, I just chose to leave them. They are coded out regardless.

I removed the airbox flap, SAI pump, etc. I removed the front bumper, fender liners, and headlights for access along with the airbox.

I deleted the flaps in the intake manifold and removed everything except the rods and sensors that hold them in. Plugged the vacuum port on the bottom of the intake manifold. Actuators/vacuum units, N316, arms, brackets all removed.

I am reassembling this week with an updated Jackal tune. I will report back.

Happy to answer any questions.

[jonan]

I disagree. Removing the entire vacuum and SAI system in the engine bay from the T in the divers fender (above liner) onward is easy and it frees up a lot of space. Remove the drivers fender liner and chase it through the bay around the PS pump. Removing the driver headlight helps but isn't necessary.

JHM sells the block-off plates (same for all 4.2.) They fit poorly, I had to slightly enlarge the holes to increase to total outer distance between the holes for it to fit the block well. Be careful and don't force it, it's an aluminum block you don't want to fuck up the threads.

The driver side can be reached on the back of the block easily from below the car with belly pan removed. It is an M8 TRIPLE SQUARE. Not torx or allen/6pt. The passenger side is extremely difficult to reach where it connects to the block. I put the block-off plate on the riser where gasket #8 is on the diagram in post 2 with the original hardware and 2 nylock nuts. It's the same pattern and gasket. I will remove the riser (part 11) and move the plate to the back of the block to match the passenger side when the motor is out.

I removed everything else except two solenoids (#4 from post 2 and N335 from post 3) which I left plugged into the harness with nipples capped off. Jackal didn't mention if this was necessary or not, I just chose to leave them. They are coded out regardless.

I removed the airbox flap, SAI pump, etc. I removed the front bumper, fender liners, and headlights for access along with the airbox.

I deleted the flaps in the intake manifold and removed everything except the rods and sensors that hold them in. Plugged the vacuum port on the bottom of the intake manifold. Actuators/vacuum units, N316, arms, brackets all removed.

I am reassembling this week with an updated Jackal tune. I will report back.

Happy to answer any questions.

yea this works better than my idea

[3.2]

I disagree. Removing the entire vacuum and SAI system in the engine bay from the T in the divers fender (above liner) onward is easy and it frees up a lot of space. Remove the drivers fender liner and chase it through the bay around the PS pump. Removing the driver headlight helps but isn't necessary.

JHM sells the block-off plates (same for all 4.2.) They fit poorly, I had to slightly enlarge the holes to increase to total outer distance between the holes for it to fit the block well. Be careful and don't force it, it's an aluminum block you don't want to fuck up the threads.

The driver side can be reached on the back of the block easily from below the car with belly pan removed. It is an M8 TRIPLE SQUARE. Not torx or allen/6pt. The passenger side is extremely difficult to reach where it connects to the block. I put the block-off plate on the riser where gasket #8 is on the diagram in post 2 with the original hardware and 2 nylock nuts. It's the same pattern and gasket. I will remove the riser (part 11) and move the plate to the back of the block to match the passenger side when the motor is out.

I removed everything else except two solenoids (#4 from post 2 and N335 from post 3) which I left plugged into the harness with nipples capped off. Jackal didn't mention if this was necessary or not, I just chose to leave them. They are coded out regardless.

I removed the airbox flap, SAI pump, etc. I removed the front bumper, fender liners, and headlights for access along with the airbox.

I deleted the flaps in the intake manifold and removed everything except the rods and sensors that hold them in. Plugged the vacuum port on the bottom of the intake manifold. Actuators/vacuum units, N316, arms, brackets all removed.

I am reassembling this week with an updated Jackal tune. I will report back.

Happy to answer any questions.

So technically you could cap it in the orange circles and then remove #6, 7 and 5 in the picture? The hose circle in green would need to be capped?


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[tjb616]

Correct except the hose in green and everything downstream from it is removed.


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[tjb616]

Some additional info:

Photo of the Y in the fender where the vacuum line begins. I tried to use a heat gun to pull the hard plastic line off the Y fitting, but no luck. I cut a relief in the line with an exact-o knife to release it, plugged it as shown with an OEM style clamp and rubber vac cap (bought a kit with various sizes off Amazon.) *Removing the 2 10mm bolts securing the power steering fluid reservoir helps to fish the hard line out of the fender through the core support and ultimately out of the car.

Third photo is the vac port for the flap actuators plugged on the bottom of the intake manifold in the same way.

Fourth photo is just to show reassembly without the arms. I'll report back if this causes any issues (leaks) but I believe it to be fine.

Last photo is the SAI Inlet N112 plugged, this time just with zip ties as there is no air running through it.

Yes the car is dirty, the deep clean comes after it's running perfectly!

[tjb616]

Final piece of the puzzle arrived today: 1" Silicone Coolant/Vacuum plug to plug the SAI port on the airbox.

The 1" found on Amazon linked below barely fits over the port, it's incredibly snug and I'd actually feel completely comfortable running it without anything securing it, or just a zip tie. There is a lip on the airbox port so it would never go anywhere. The largest OD (lip area) is 37mm in case you want to buy an OEM style ear clip, which I will be doing.

They also make this plug in 1 1/4", which would also work and be much easier to get on, but you'd definitely want something securing that size.

I'm awaiting my ECUs back from Jackal, will report back with any issues once it's up and running.

1" Plug: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083QJP211...roduct_details



- - - Updated - - -

Final piece of the puzzle arrived today: 1" Silicone Coolant/Vacuum plug to plug the SAI port on the airbox.

The 1" found on Amazon linked below barely fits over the port, it's incredibly snug and I'd actually feel completely comfortable running it without anything securing it, or just a zip tie. There is a lip on the airbox port so it would never go anywhere. The largest OD (lip area) is 37mm in case you want to buy an OEM style ear clip, which I will be doing.

They also make this plug in 1 1/4", which would also work and be much easier to get on, but you'd definitely want something securing that size.

I'm awaiting my ECUs back from Jackal, will report back with any issues once it's up and running.

1" Plug: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083QJP211...roduct_details

[Airnautique54]

Question... what is the advantage to an SAI delete? I'm running a de-flapped JHM tune on my RS4 so I might be a candidate to do this, just curious as to the benefits. Thanks all!

[VinnysS4]

Question... what is the advantage to an SAI delete? I'm running a de-flapped JHM tune on my RS4 so I might be a candidate to do this, just curious as to the benefits. Thanks all!

The SAi system is in place strictly on a cold start to pump air into the exhaust to warm up your catalytic converters. Its for emissions. As far as removing it, if you are catless, the system is useless.

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[tjb616]

Vinny is correct. Removing it also frees up a lot of space in the engine bay and makes intake manifold removal for carbon cleaning significantly easier.


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[tjb616]

Today, I'm the luckiest guy in the world.

I used 034's tool to insert these to the perfect depth. Used a ton of Permatex High Tack 80062 to secure them. Plenty of time to dry. This one still got sucked into the manifold. I'm so fucking happy that it didn't get into the motor.

So what now? I bought the JHM plugs and will replace them all. Didn't do that originally because I have had many fitment issues with JHM parts in the past. But they do have more surface area.

Should I try LocTite (034's rec) instead of Permatex (JHM,s rec)? Don't want to deal with the stress of this potentially happening again.

[longlivenacars]

That's crazy, I used red loc- tite last August when I de-flapped and I've been fine. Driven 2000KM since then. Took 3 days for it to dry. Even with the 034 tool I remember a few being pushed in slightly further than the others but I left them there as they dried and I pushed a bit with my finger after drying to see if they were tight.

Didn't want to re-do as I had light very lightly sanded 2000 grit and cleaned the edges of the friction fit plugs before loc-tite; didn't want to wear them down again beyond that. My car is on blocks facing inward and wall rack blocking so I can't open the hood, but in the next couple weeks I'll be moving the car and I'll take pics where mine are at and post too.

Your post has me thinking to re-do. I remember giving the correct force with the 034 tool though, even push, with even force, there was nothing that could've been done differently which makes me think maybe one or two of them would seat slightly deeper again so not worth re-doing. You lucked out thankfully

[tjb616]

3 Days to dry? Wow.

A guy on FB made a great plug with a lip, but with boost you'd have the opposite problem.

I wonder if the original plugs are aluminum... if they are I might take them to my fab guy and have them welded in place.

JHM Plugs are steel.

[longlivenacars]

Not sure if it was a bad batch of loc tite I ran into, but the bit of excess was still wet when touching the plugs from outside of Intake manifold with finger. I wasn't going to try pushing in to see if the contact point had dried before the outside bits had dried. After that I pushed all and they didn't move, so made a prayer and went on lol

Would be cool if they can be welded. I thought about JB welding from the outside to have that as a functional backup for the loc tite, but would look bad aesthetically so I didn't. Thought that if I ever sell the car the buyer might think I've botched a euro car with epoxy cause it would be unsightly.

[tjb616]

M2 welds them shut, I just don't know if they have plugs made, fill it in, or weld in the OG caps. I play on adding a fair bit of boost so I'd like to just get this done.

[longlivenacars]

What kind of boost are you going for? I'm pretty sure the supercharger kits from all the companies replace the factory intake manifold

[tjb616]

Good point, but I’ll be going single turbo.


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[longlivenacars]

That'll be a cool build

[tjb616]

Checking back in to say that this procedure has mostly worked as intended. 500 miles logged and I have an EVAP code (9220 / P2404) which I need to look into, but otherwise this has been a great mod.

If anyone knows knowledge of the EVAP system in our cars, I'd love a good starting point to learn. Not many search results here.

[VinnysS4]

P2404 code possible causes Faulty Leak Detection Pump, Leak Detection Pump harness is open or shorted, Leak Detection Pump circuit poor electrical connection, Faulty Purge Valve Clogged, or damaged charcoal canister

An Audi P2404 trouble code is a malfunction with the evaporative emissions systems. Specifically, a P2404 – EVAP System Leak Detection Pump Sense Circuit Range/Performance problem. The evaporative emissions system captures fuel vapor during fueling and stores the vapors in a charcoal canister. Later, when the engine is running, the system opens a purge and vent valve that allows the engine to suck vapor laden air into the engine where it is burned and also allows fresh air in to clean out the canister.

The leak detection system is designed to detect leaks in the complete fuel system, including the fuel tank, EVAP canister and Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Purge Regulator Valve/
The leak detection system has a vacuum-driven diaphragm pump with a reed contact on the actuation rod of the pump diaphragm. The engine supplies vacuum to the pump.
When activated, the diaphragm pump operates and pumps the fuel system up to 20 to 30-mbar. That pushes the diaphragm out so the reed contact at the operating rod is in the “open” position.
The system monitors the reed contact to ensure it opens within 15 seconds. That indicates the system is sealed. However, if the pressure falls (indicating a leak), the diaphragm moves back and the reed contact closes. If reed contact closes within 15 seconds a second test is actuated.

In the second test, the diaphragm pump operates 4 more times. The ECM measures the
time for each of the 4 pumps until the reed closes That’s how the ECM recognizes a “small leak” (smaller than 1 mm in diameter) or a “large leak”.

The leak detection system is activated shortly after each cold start (under 35°C) and when the vehicle is driven faster than 6.2-MPH (10 km/h). In the system detects a leak fault, it sets a trouble code.

As mentioned above, the leak detection pump operates off of vacuum supplied by the engine while it’s running. The vacuum valve is an electrically operated solenoid valve. The ECM monitors the solenoid circuit integrity by looking for the voltage spike that’s present when the solenoid valve is switched OFF. The vacuum solenoid has a resistance of 15 Ohms.
When the vacuum valve is operating, it regulates vacuum flow based on a pulsed voltage from the ECM. The leak detection pump solenoid can fail due to an open or short condition.

To conduct the full range of test, you’ll need a VAG scan tool. If you don’t have one, check the electrical connection to the vacuum valve and reed switch. Next, check for cracks in the rubber tubing to the leak detection pump. If the connections and tubing check out, replace the leak detection pump. It is the #1 cause of an Audi P2404.


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[VinnysS4]

That's the basis on the evap system. Happy digging

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[longlivenacars]

@tjb616 @vinnyss4

Thanks for update and let us know what evap code was for later please. I remember watching a video on evap systems in general and people being fooled by smoke billowing out of a port near the charcoal canister during a smoke machine test. The presenter in the video said this port, which I don't remember right now, is designed to stay open a lot of the time. Does this ring any bell and do RS4 evap systems have points that might be counter-intuitive when testing for leaks?

In reply to the 034 tool and the lucky break tjb616 caught earlier, I took some pics of mine which were reinstalled with red loc tite about 2000KM ago and have been fine since. Pics might help others to be very careful on re-install as I was careful with the 034 tool and two still seated deeper. I have pics of 7 sets, the last one wast not possible due to stuff in the way, but those were seated well. The plugs are deeper than the others in pic #1 and pic #3, but they don't look as bad as the tjb616 pic. They were seated like this the day I re-installed. The 034 tool would not allow them to sit further up, and I remember checking by physically looking into the manifold, and they were at least flush with the walls as far as I remember. Hopefully they don't jump in at any point, maybe I will re-do them next time manifold is off
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[tjb616]

Thank you very much, Vinny.

My understanding is that code 9220 / P2404 does not indicate a leak, but an electrical problem with the N80 or the pump. I tested the engine bay tubing for leaks with a smoke tester anyway since I had recently had it apart, no leaks found. I also swapped gas caps from another car, although the seal appeared fine.

I tested the N80 with VCDS and could hear it. It measures the proper resistance.

I could not get 12v from the N80 connector, which I found odd, but I believe that was user error on my end since I could hear it with the VCDS test. I tried with the car off and ignition on position, but not running.

What other tests are possible via VCDS?

The zip ties tell me this has been replaced or at least removed before. It measured 15ohm but I'm not sure if that's correct.



Regarding the below I hope I was correct in this thought process: The pump gets vac from the blue reservoir. As shown in the photo, I capped the engine bay vac system where the Y is from the pump in the passenger fender (shown in photo in post 14) the 3rd part of that Y heads back to the reservoir feeds the EVAP pump. And thus, where I capped it should not have created the 9220 / P2404.

Safe to say everything in the system above the horizontal pink line can be removed?

[tjb616]

I'm working to confirm what I now believe is the issue: The nipple I capped on the bottom of the intake manifold is in fact the source of vacuum for the reservoir, which operates the EVAP pump. I believe a direct line with a check valve from that nipple to the fitting I capped in the driver fender well might solve my issue.

I'm wondering if I can bypass the runner control valve, or if it serves some function with the flaps and actuators deleted.