B8.5 2.0T - E85 for Daily Driving?

[S4_ATX]

I’m looking for those that have first hand experience consistently running E85 for daily driving on the flex fuel 2.0T for long periods of time.

For those that have done this… Did you have any issues with the car, fuel system, etc.?

I’ve heard this can be harsh on the fuel injector seals but I am looking for actual real world examples. I have read that running a tank of 93 octane every once in awhile can help but not sure if this is true?

I have a 2013 Q5 2.0T with APR Stage 1 tune and I will be switching to E85 for some more power.

Anyone have any real world experience daily driving on E85 on this platform for long periods of time?


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[JLAllroad]

I’m looking for those that have first hand experience consistently running E85 for daily driving on the flex fuel 2.0T for long periods of time.

For those that have done this… Did you have any issues with the car, fuel system, etc.?

I’ve heard this can be harsh on the fuel injector seals but I am looking for actual real world examples. I have read that running a tank of 93 octane every once in awhile can help but not sure if this is true?

I have a 2013 Q5 2.0T with APR Stage 1 tune and I will be switching to E85 for some more power.

Anyone have any real world experience daily driving on E85 on this platform for long periods of time?


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I have almost 60k (tuned) on my Allroad APR stg2. I rarely run full E85, unless it’s 85+ out, best power is at E40-50, about 50/50 E85/91 or 93. This amount maxes out the timing while not taxing the fuel system unnecessarily.

An aside, E85 by itself is not a great fuel, attracts water and not as lubricating. I would recommend running a “top tier” fuel in conjunction or periodically to keep the system happy.

Injectors and HPFPs can become problematic beyond 100k, more so with poor fuel.


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[k.sigota]

My AR is K04 running GIAC race file (good for race fuel or maxing out E85) since about 50k. Currently at 86k. I almost always run E55 or higher (E55 top teir fuel is semi easy to find in PHX - E85 is available at some questionable locations). Only time I switch out of race file and use 91 octane is when I'm going out of town, which is fairly rare as we generally take the Q7 on trips.

No issues. She always runs solid.

The AR is my normal daily... I just haven't driven daily since COVID lockdowns. I now work at home and drive 1/4 as much, if that.

I do feel more power when running E85 vs E55, but not enough for me to justify the drastic drop in mpg. I can usually get around 19-21 with E55 (that's if I'm being nice to her with an occasional spirited gas pedal useage)...I'm lucky if I can hit 15 mpg on E85 with zero spirit. I don't like to drive boring and I really don't like the gas stations with E85, so I stick to E55.

I use a Bluetooth obd device along with the torque app to read the computers E percentage.

[SNice]

My AR is K04 running GIAC race file (good for race fuel or maxing out E85) since about 50k. Currently at 86k. I almost always run E55 or higher (E55 top teir fuel is semi easy to find in PHX - E85 is available at some questionable locations). Only time I switch out of race file and use 91 octane is when I'm going out of town, which is fairly rare as we generally take the Q7 on trips.

No issues. She always runs solid.

The AR is my normal daily... I just haven't driven daily since COVID lockdowns. I now work at home and drive 1/4 as much, if that.

I do feel more power when running E85 vs E55, but not enough for me to justify the drastic drop in mpg. I can usually get around 19-21 with E55 (that's if I'm being nice to her with an occasional spirited gas pedal useage)...I'm lucky if I can hit 15 mpg on E85 with zero spirit. I don't like to drive boring and I really don't like the gas stations with E85, so I stick to E55.

I use a Bluetooth obd device along with the torque app to read the computers E percentage.

K.sigota!!! Where have you been? I’m on GIAC k04 file too!!! I have the race file but didn’t think I had enough ethanol to get it to run properly. You’re running the race file on E55? Do you have any logs - it would be great to compare as there are very few GIAC users.

I’ve run several tanks of e85 back to back. The biggest benefit I saw was the tail pipes stayed clean. I have a big issue with the quality of e85 in my area. It was actually around 70-75% ethanol. Like others have said - the ethanolgas mileage sucks. I believe it was around 240-260 miles per tank. I also felt the car drove best on a blend of 93 and e85. A half tank of each puts me at about e40. Once the warmer weather comes back, perhaps I’ll give full e85 a try again.

Other than poor gas mileage, I didn’t experience any issues while running full e85.

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[k.sigota]

K.sigota!!! Where have you been? I’m on GIAC k04 file too!!! I have the race file but didn’t think I had enough ethanol to get it to run properly. You’re running the race file on E55? Do you have any logs - it would be great to compare as there are very few GIAC users.

I’ve run several tanks of e85 back to back. The biggest benefit I saw was the tail pipes stayed clean. I have a big issue with the quality of e85 in my area. It was actually around 70-75% ethanol. Like others have said - the ethanolgas mileage sucks. I believe it was around 240-260 miles per tank. I also felt the car drove best on a blend of 93 and e85. A half tank of each puts me at about e40. Once the warmer weather comes back, perhaps I’ll give full e85 a try again.

Other than poor gas mileage, I didn’t experience any issues while running full e85.

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I'm a lurker... Lol.

I don't have any current logs but more than happy to grab some if you tell me exactly what you'd like to see. Currently out of town, but I'll be back to my AR next week and can do it then.

I've never actually mixed. I know people do, but in all honesty I've been content enough with E55 and the race file.

Most people seem to scoff at running GIAC, but I don't really understand why. Maybe because they're not super active nor super vocal. I'm not doing any competition so I don't really care about chasing numbers. I knew I wanted to keep the ARs ability to run flex or gas, and APR seemed to be the only other option.

Chevron seems to treat me well with their E55 (there's a single Chevron which has E85, but it's 30 mins away so not really worth it)...I have yet to have issues. There's a couple other stations selling E85, too, but like you pointed out with places around you...they're questionable. While I feel a bit more raw power, I also seem to get more misfires with their gas. I don't get that even with the Chevron E85 station...So I just steer clear of those others. Plus the MPG drips even further. Price per gallon with the Chevron E55 is on par with 91 octane (all we have here), and 91 just feels slow af after having E...so I just stick with E. The car likes it...

I do notice quite a difference with the race file. I don't know about blending with it... Would have to email GIAC to see what they recommend.

I have three different race files to use different WG loads/duty cycles. Have to actually flash the different ones, can't just swap. They do all feel way different, too. They give you that option?

Let me know if you want me to log anything. You're right it would be interesting. You'd probably have to spend a little time teaching me different logging options... I'm not very experienced there. I can turn wrenches all day long, but that stuff, as much as I want to learn it, confuses me some. Which is weird because I AM a numbers person, lol. I just haven't had anyone around to learn from and too scared to REALLY break my car.

[SNice]

I'm a lurker... Lol.

I don't have any current logs but more than happy to grab some if you tell me exactly what you'd like to see. Currently out of town, but I'll be back to my AR next week and can do it then.

I've never actually mixed. I know people do, but in all honesty I've been content enough with E55 and the race file.

Most people seem to scoff at running GIAC, but I don't really understand why. Maybe because they're not super active nor super vocal. I'm not doing any competition so I don't really care about chasing numbers. I knew I wanted to keep the ARs ability to run flex or gas, and APR seemed to be the only other option.

Chevron seems to treat me well with their E55 (there's a single Chevron which has E85, but it's 30 mins away so not really worth it)...I have yet to have issues. There's a couple other stations selling E85, too, but like you pointed out with places around you...they're questionable. While I feel a bit more raw power, I also seem to get more misfires with their gas. I don't get that even with the Chevron E85 station...So I just steer clear of those others. Plus the MPG drips even further. Price per gallon with the Chevron E55 is on par with 91 octane (all we have here), and 91 just feels slow af after having E...so I just stick with E. The car likes it...

I do notice quite a difference with the race file. I don't know about blending with it... Would have to email GIAC to see what they recommend.

I have three different race files to use different WG loads/duty cycles. Have to actually flash the different ones, can't just swap. They do all feel way different, too. They give you that option?

Let me know if you want me to log anything. You're right it would be interesting. You'd probably have to spend a little time teaching me different logging options... I'm not very experienced there. I can turn wrenches all day long, but that stuff, as much as I want to learn it, confuses me some. Which is weird because I AM a numbers person, lol. I just haven't had anyone around to learn from and too scared to REALLY break my car.

Well great to know I’m not alone! I’ve been very happy with GIAC. I just want to get all the hardware issues worked out to get the file to run at it true potential. I had wastegate/overboosting issues so I’ve run through all 3 WG/duty cycle files. I finally got that sorted out ( I think) and then I got race mode. Maybe I didn’t give it enough time to adapt after using the switcher. Last time I filled up on full e85 was about a month ago. I was at about 70%ethanol. If I recall correctly, GIAC told me I needed about 78% ethanol at minimum to take advantage of race mode. Maybe I’ll give it another try and give it some more time to adapt. Check my post history and you’ll see several logs/pics/etc. I’m most active in the K04 support forum. I’ll keep in touch! We need to stick together! Lol!

Sorry for the derailment, OP! You’ll be fine on e85! Remember - the car is designed for it! I would however run a tank of 93 every once in a while just for good measure.


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[S4_ATX]

Thanks for all the info. That helps.

We get pretty good quality E85 at the gas station near me in Austin, Texas. I have no plans to mix gas and run a blend. Happy to run a tank of 93 every once in awhile if that helps.

Hoping to find others that have run E85 consistently for long periods of time on this platform. I understand the car is designed to support this but I was hoping to find some people that have actually done it and hear about their experiences.

Let me know if anyone else has done this.


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[Mars2]

6 year only with 100% E85 on this car. no problem
I'm using only E85 on all my car's since 2005.
my ex VW R32 did 120.000 miles only E85
my BRZ has also only had E85
........

I never put a tank of 93 or 91

[flowhigh]

Fill with E85 - all year. 85 kind of a misnomer since content varies especially in the colder parts.

When it gets below 20 I start considering 93. When it's single and below freezing you may have starting issues.

So 93 does sneak in every winter. There's a lot of BS on the internet regarding e85. It's more to do with the have and have nots.

[Mars2]

mine strat's pretty good until -15°C so 5°F if I don't mistake in the conversion to °F

[4xaudi]

I would love to run E85 on my allroad. however id 4.95/gallon here which is 1.25 more than 93 and the mileage is about 20% less.

[Nano909]

I've been using E85 all year in my non-flex fuel B8, you will be fine.

[TylerJDubbs]

All of the fastest B8’s run on E, most upgraded turbo cars don’t run great power on E85 but will on E40 because of fuel system limitations.

With the right tuner it’s as simple as running 5-6Gal of E, re-flashing E30-40 tune and boom say hello to 40wtq and 30whp

[A4B8 2.0tfsi]

No it's pointless to run it on a daily driver, because of the above answers.

[findalex]

I'm in California, where E85 is supposed to be realy 85% ethonol. I've read that in other states, the concentration may be different. That said, if you have a flex fuel engine (w/ metallic intake), it should be able to accept any mixture.

I ran E85 on and off the last year or so. It was great! I perceived noticeably more power, freer engine revs, etc. The car has no problems running pure E85 or any mixture with Costco/Sam's Club/top tier gas. No leaks, and the car idles so much smoother. The engine seems more powerful at low RPMs because I get a lot less random transmission shift stumbles (when very light on the accelerator below 20 mph). I don't know why, but it is a difference I can definitely replicate with more/less E85.

The only downside is the much lower MPG (about 25% lower). It only makes sense economically if it's at least 25% cheaper than premium gasoline.

[TylerJDubbs]

No it's pointless to run it on a daily driver, because of the above answers.

Why you always giving bad advice

[S4_ATX]

Thanks for all the helpful info. This re-affirms what I expected to hear.

I have been using E85 100% on my RS3 and have had zero issues. I just wanted to confirm that it would be a similar experience on my flex fuel Q5. I’m ok with the worse MPG. The extra power is worth the trade off for me.

Thanks all.


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[JLAllroad]

No it's pointless to run it on a daily driver, because of the above answers.

Explain your answer in detail as nothing above implies what you are stating.


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[A4B8 2.0tfsi]

Since you want to get good milage and economy in a daily driver (at least that's what the most of us wants ins daily driver), it's pointless to run ethanol, unless you want to race, and spend more money and time at the fuel pump, as per the above answers.

Thought that was pretty obvious for the most of us car owners, but yeah. I need to explain myself.... Jesus Christ!

Tyler and his followers disagree with that, but I'm not surprised.

[Nano909]

Since you want to get good milage and economy in a daily driver (at least that's what the most of us wants ins daily driver), it's pointless to run ethanol, unless you want to race, and spend more money and time at the fuel pump, as per the above answers.

Thought that was pretty obvious for the most of us car owners, but yeah. I need to explain myself.... Jesus Christ!

Tyler and his followers disagree with that, but I'm not surprised.

So why did you add a K04 and a custom tune if you want to get good gas mileage? Seems counter-productive. Everytime you comment, you're just cementing your cluenessness.

[k.sigota]

Since you want to get good milage and economy in a daily driver (at least that's what the most of us wants ins daily driver), it's pointless to run ethanol, unless you want to race, and spend more money and time at the fuel pump, as per the above answers.

Thought that was pretty obvious for the most of us car owners, but yeah. I need to explain myself.... Jesus Christ!

Tyler and his followers disagree with that, but I'm not surprised.

Options vary

OP didn't ask specifically about fuel economy, he asked for real world experiences. Up to OP to decide what's worth it or not, just like the rest of us. You nor I can decide which priorities are of value to another person.

For me, personally, there may be more time at the pump, but (prior to COVID where gas prices started going all over the place) the total cost per mile was less. I actually saved money by using E55. Not a lot, mind you, but still a savings.

Now the AR is no longer a routine daily. I keep running E because I find it a whole lot more enjoyable.

[JLAllroad]

Since you want to get good milage and economy in a daily driver (at least that's what the most of us wants ins daily driver), it's pointless to run ethanol, unless you want to race, and spend more money and time at the fuel pump, as per the above answers.

Thought that was pretty obvious for the most of us car owners, but yeah. I need to explain myself.... Jesus Christ!

Tyler and his followers disagree with that, but I'm not surprised.

Sounds like you’re spokesperson for a group that wants to drive an appliance or maybe a group that doesn’t want to drive at all.

Now I don’t believe that you would be here if this was the case, but, it is amazing the lengths people will go to validate their statements.


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[A4B8 2.0tfsi]

So why did you add a K04 and a custom tune if you want to get good gas mileage? Seems counter-productive. Everytime you comment, you're just cementing your cluenessness.

So please let me know when I've said that I made one single comment about my car, and that I've changed my motor and tuned it, for an ultimate daily driver. When you find anything remotely close to that, I'll send you a picture of a fine piece of candy for you to look at. Can't even imagine how your brain works, but keep on your good work. This forum is clearly ment for you and Tyler and spawne. Anyone else that has don't agree with you, always have it wrong. Guess what?! All the stuff you have on your car, isn't the perfect way to go. Sorry to bust your bubble.

[A4B8 2.0tfsi]

Sounds like you’re spokesperson for a group that wants to drive an appliance or maybe a group that doesn’t want to drive at all.

Now I don’t believe that you would be here if this was the case, but, it is amazing the lengths people will go to validate their statements.


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Nope. Just pointed out the facts that's up to you to read or not. Feel free to drive whatever you want and how you feel like it. The little family group in here, that responds like a bunch of Hyena's, whenever someone dare to speak to on of you, and not agree, you all come in to the much needed rescue...

[Spawne32]

Tyler and his followers disagree with that, but I'm not surprised.

Command thee lord tyler!

[Spawne32]

So please let me know when I've said that I made one single comment about my car, and that I've changed my motor and tuned it, for an ultimate daily driver. When you find anything remotely close to that, I'll send you a picture of a fine piece of candy for you to look at. Can't even imagine how your brain works, but keep on your good work. This forum is clearly ment for you and Tyler and spawne. Anyone else that has don't agree with you, always have it wrong. Guess what?! All the stuff you have on your car, isn't the perfect way to go. Sorry to bust your bubble.

I'll say a prayer that you too may know his love.

Our Tyler, Who art in canada, tuner be Thy name; Thy power come; Thy tune be done; on earth as it is in hptuners. Give us this day our daily boost; and forgive us our speeding tickets as we forgive those who are too slow against us; and lead us not into detonation, but deliver us from blown engines.

[JLAllroad]

Nope. Just pointed out the facts that's up to you to read or not. Feel free to drive whatever you want and how you feel like it. The little family group in here, that responds like a bunch of Hyena's, whenever someone dare to speak to on of you, and not agree, you all come in to the much needed rescue...

Based on this “Feel free to drive whatever you want and how you feel like it.” It’s not actually pointless to run E85 in a daily, it’s a choice. Granted, “pointless” in your context is an opinion and not the facts you speak of.

The facts above (none of which were supplied by you) allow the OP and others to make an informed decision.


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[Spawne32]

Im just happy to finally be mentioned by name.

[Nano909]

So please let me know when I've said that I made one single comment about my car, and that I've changed my motor and tuned it, for an ultimate daily driver. When you find anything remotely close to that, I'll send you a picture of a fine piece of candy for you to look at. Can't even imagine how your brain works, but keep on your good work. This forum is clearly ment for you and Tyler and spawne. Anyone else that has don't agree with you, always have it wrong. Guess what?! All the stuff you have on your car, isn't the perfect way to go. Sorry to bust your bubble.

That's a lot of words to basically say that you have no clue what you're saying. Your sig shows you have stuff done to your car, or are they lies so you can look cool? Then you said this in your previous comment "Since you want to get good milage and economy in a daily driver (at least that's what the most of us wants ins daily driver)"

You can stop backtracking now, and also quit giving people your bad advice. You can't even show us your "cool" tune 🤣

[signde]

regarding the argument that e85 doesn’t make sense for a daily in the 2.0T…

in some places e85 is still very cheap. when i went home for the holidays last week, a local station had it for $2.12 per gallon. even at a 66-75% mpg deficiency that’s still a savings over premium pump gas which was about $3.60. not sure about the a4 but the q5 has a big (19g?) tank so a fill-up of e85 is still going to get you over 300 miles of range which is pretty decent. at that kind of price, add in the fun factor and it completely makes sense to me, even for a daily.

[A4B8 2.0tfsi]

That's a lot of words to basically say that you have no clue what you're saying. Your sig shows you have stuff done to your car, or are they lies so you can look cool? Then you said this in your previous comment "Since you want to get good milage and economy in a daily driver (at least that's what the most of us wants ins daily driver)"

You can stop backtracking now, and also quit giving people your bad advice. You can't even show us your "cool" tune 🤣

I'm going to make it superdupereasy for you, so even you get it. My A4B8 isn't rebuilt by me, for the purpose as a daily driver. I don't care about mileage, which you should get, since I don't have it stick 211 and 15 inch rims. I don't have to bolt everything to my car available out there, and I certainly don't need to enter your peeing contest here on this site, to prove either me, or my tuners work. Some of us, aka the rest of the world, don't care about ¼ mile times. Bye bye now.

[Nano909]

I'm going to make it superdupereasy for you, so even you get it. My A4B8 isn't rebuilt by me, for the purpose as a daily driver. I don't care about mileage, which you should get, since I don't have it stick 211 and 15 inch rims. I don't have to bolt everything to my car available out there, and I certainly don't need to enter your peeing contest here on this site, to prove either me, or my tuners work. Some of us, aka the rest of the world, don't care about ¼ mile times. Bye bye now.

So what you're saying is, you don't know how your car works and you have no idea if you even have a good reliable tune. Got it.

[TylerJDubbs]

I'm going to make it superdupereasy for you, so even you get it. My A4B8 isn't rebuilt by me, for the purpose as a daily driver. I don't care about mileage, which you should get, since I don't have it stick 211 and 15 inch rims. I don't have to bolt everything to my car available out there, and I certainly don't need to enter your peeing contest here on this site, to prove either me, or my tuners work. Some of us, aka the rest of the world, don't care about ¼ mile times. Bye bye now.

So you modified a car but have no interest in data? that’s why the “rest of the world” is slow.

Some of us just like to see what kind of performance our modifications generated, 0-60, 1/8th mile, 1/4 mile, Mph, Dyno… it’s all part of it

And as always, talk is cheap

[JLAllroad]

Some of us just like to see what kind of performance our modifications generated, 0-60, 1/8th mile, 1/4 mile, Mph, Dyno… it’s all part of it

To this point I will say it’s not about a pissing contest with others as much as with myself to understand if a new part or tweak made a positive impact.

I do like to see data from others with similar mods as a basis for comparison, if I’m faster maybe I can help others, if I’m slower maybe they can help me.

Maybe I’m wrong but I thought that was the point of this community.


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[S4_ATX]

Thanks for those that have shared their experiences with E85. This info has been helpful.

Here are some Dragy 0-60 times showing the improvement I saw when going from 93 octane to E85.

The only mod on my 2013 Q5 2.0T is an APR Stage 1 tune. I had the tune on the car for both of the Dragy runs posted.

Note: I improved launching the Q5 by the time I tested with E85. That may explain some of the improvement.

I will definitely be daily driving on E85.


93 Octane
IMG_2970.jpg




E85
IMG_3027.jpg



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[JLAllroad]

Thanks for those that have shared their experiences with E85. This info has been helpful.

Here are some Dragy 0-60 times showing the improvement I saw when going from 93 octane to E85.

The only mod on my 2013 Q5 2.0T is an APR Stage 1 tune. I had the tune on the car for both of the Dragy runs posted.

Note: I improved launching the Q5 by the time I tested with E85. That may explain some of the improvement.

I will definitely be daily driving on E85.


93 Octane
IMG_2970.jpg




E85
IMG_3027.jpg



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Launching via AMAX, procedure pictured, will generally account for a .5 reduction in the quarter mile. I would like to see your 60ft times, most of us launch ~3k. Did you allow 20+ miles between fuels for adaptation?

IMG_3944.jpg


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[S4_ATX]

Launching via AMAX, procedure pictured, will generally account for a .5 reduction in the quarter mile. I would like to see your 60ft times, most of us launch ~3k. Did you allow 20+ miles between fuels for adaptation?

IMG_3944.jpg


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Thanks for the info. I did use the AMAX launch procedure that you pictured. That being said I could likely use some more practice. I haven’t had the Q5 for very long.

I don’t think Dragy shows 60ft times for 0-60 runs. Only shows them in 1/4 mile mode.

Yes. I drove the car for 20+ miles after switching gas before testing. I put in 2 gallons of E85 first and ran that dry before filling the tank with E85.

Given the weight of this Q5 with the 2.0 engine… I felt the 6.1 zero to 60 time was decent. I actually got one run at 5.73 seconds but it was just slightly downhill (-1.12 slope) so was invalid.


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[JLAllroad]

Thanks for the info. I did use the AMAX launch procedure that you pictured. That being said I could likely use some more practice. I haven’t had the Q5 for very long.

I don’t think Dragy shows 60ft times for 0-60 runs. Only shows them in 1/4 mile mode.

Yes. I drove the car for 20+ miles after switching gas before testing. I put in 2 gallons of E85 first and ran that dry before filling the tank with E85.

Given the weight of this Q5 with the 2.0 engine… I felt the 6.1 zero to 60 time was decent. I actually got one run at 5.73 seconds but it was just slightly downhill (-1.12 slope) so was invalid.


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You should be able to hit a sub 5 second 0-60. The Q5 and Allroad have gearing to off set the weight vs the A4, the Q5 being more aggressive.

If you are running on the original turbo you may need to tweak the wastegate actuator bracket towards the front of the car 3-5 mm, these are notorious for being loose and leaky.

Noting the Diverter Valve model is also recommended, diaphragm versions also leak, any bolt ons?


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[bb-tt]

No it's pointless to run it on a daily driver, because of the above answers.

spoken like someone that has not driven a car tuned for E. I was just experimenting with e but after going back to 93 as soon as i burned enough to add e back in i switched back. Only someone who is clueless to the difference in performance would say it is pointless. If performance is pointless go get a yugo.

[bb-tt]

Im just happy to finally be mentioned by name.

spawne spawne spawne

https://c.tenor.com/M7k0tc14MKgAAAAC/marcia-jealous.gif