B8.5 piston/ring replacement - oil consumption

[g-rex]

The car: 2014 Audi Allroad 2.0t, CPMB, 119,xxx miles, Build Date 04/14.

The consumption: 1 quart oil usage every 150 miles / 8 days.

Consumption went from 0 to the above mentioned extreme usage over the course of maybe 6-7 months approximately. I decided I didn't want to drive around the Exxon Valdez, so I pulled the motor to put in updated pistons/rings and fix this problem once and for all.

I won't go into alot of detail for the engine pull/tear down unless there's anything specific anybody wants to know. If so, feel free to ask. I'm posting this to document what was in the motor and responsible for the excessive oil consumption.

Audi was kind enough to put the first run piston rings with the round holes in my 2014. They were gunked up to high hell. I had to scrape and spray with brake cleaner for 5 minutes to even figure out which oil ring it was. I'll take a picture of how gunked up they were when I get back to it. I forgot to snap a pre-cleaning picture, but you couldn't even see through the oil ring I pulled off.

Anyway, it's another data point. Thanks Audi. Or should I say **** off Audi. I'm not sure yet. At least once I fix this I'll be set. Already have the updated pistons/rings in hand and will begin putting things back together shortly.

[Perry01]

Wow, going from zero consumption to one qt. every 150 miles over 6 months is troublesome. What oil were you using? Which pistons and rings did you decide to install?

[silver_tt]

Subscribed. Believe those are the same rings icy had in his 2014 2.0T...........and I'm sure the same as I have in my 2014 Q5 2.0T.

[SNice]

The car: 2014 Audi Allroad 2.0t, CPMB, 119,xxx miles.

The consumption: 1 quart oil usage every 150 miles / 8 days.

Consumption went from 0 to the above mentioned extreme usage over the course of maybe 6-7 months approximately. I decided I didn't want to drive around the Exxon Valdez, so I pulled the motor to put in updated pistons/rings and fix this problem once and for all.

I won't go into alot of detail for the engine pull/tear down unless there's anything specific anybody wants to know. If so, feel free to ask. I'm posting this to document what was in the motor and responsible for the excessive oil consumption.

Audi was kind enough to put the first run piston rings with the round holes in my 2014. They were gunked up to high hell. I had to scrape and spray with brake cleaner for 5 minutes to even figure out which oil ring it was. I'll take a picture of how gunked up they were when I get back to it. I forgot to snap a pre-cleaning picture, but you couldn't even see through the oil ring I pulled off.

Anyway, it's another data point. Thanks Audi. Or should I say **** off Audi. I'm not sure yet. At least once I fix this I'll be set. Already have the updated pistons/rings in hand and will begin putting things back together shortly.

Hey Neighbor! Thanks for posting this… I fear I’m about to be in the same boat. CPMB @ 115K. I’m at about a 1/2 qt every 4-500!miles. I never let it get low. Hopefully your new rings will solve the issue. Looking forward to updates!


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[Spawne32]

I suffer this seemingly every winter when I go from Rotella T6 to whatever brand 0w40 I decide to get on sale. It's especially bad this year, so I am changing it back (assuming I can find it in stock). I am going through a quart every two weeks of castrol 0w40 right now. Mine was rebuilt already early on in the recall campaign but it now has 135k on it and the rebuild was done around 65k. Probably about time to start considering my options because oil and additives are only going to milk it along so far.

[Theiceman]

Yup same rings in my car..
Your new ones should be the waffle design and you will be golden.
I did my water pump while I had access.

Lots of 8.5s reporting oil consumptions these days... I think mine was a late 13 build as a my14.
If you know when your car was built it will add more data.
My In service date was January 14



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[g-rex]

Yup same rings in my car..
Your new ones should be the waffle design and you will be golden.
I did my water pump while I had access.

Lots of 8.5s reporting oil consumptions these days... I think mine was a late 13 build as a my14.
If you know when your car was built it will add more data.
My In service date was January 14



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Good call. I edited my post above to add that information. Build date 04/14.

[g-rex]

Yup same rings in my car..
Your new ones should be the waffle design and you will be golden.
I did my water pump while I had access.

Lots of 8.5s reporting oil consumptions these days... I think mine was a late 13 build as a my14.
If you know when your car was built it will add more data.
My In service date was January 14



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I picked up the pistons/rings yesterday and I did get the latest waffle style design oil ring. Should be good now. I also picked up a water pump. Don't want to try to replace that with the car together so it's easy preventative maintenance now.

[Theiceman]

I picked up the pistons/rings yesterday and I did get the latest waffle style design oil ring. Should be good now. I also picked up a water pump. Don't want to try to replace that with the car together so it's easy preventative maintenance now.

if you read my thread you know i have been exactly where you are with the same engine, just reach outif you have any Qs.



im thinking this will look familiar to you ...

[silver_tt]

My build date is 02 / 14. So triangulating I have those rings for sure. This makes my experiment with running Driven DI40 even more important now. I hypothesize running an 0W-40 oil for direct injection (soot formation) will allow my engine to escape oil consumption issues. I am going to let the community know the outcome either way. So far at 100K I burn nothing.........I will keep this car to very high mileage.

Great call on doing the water pump. I did mine at 75K which is the interval I recommend for preemptive replacement as this is a common failure point on this engine. I strongly recommend doing with the Audi Kit (06H-121-026-DR) as it includes sensor, thermostat, etc. Also replace the union (06H-121-131-C).

Saw this video the other day which is interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLOzPJ5PQ_A&t=108s

Was looking into it more and it seems like the EA888 has special laser "etching" on the cylinder walls. Tried to find more technical information on this like he has in the video.

[Zuzuwu]

Same ones my 13 had. I was up to a quart per 100 by the time i gave in and did the pistons. Honestly not a bad job, these engines are dumb simple


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[Zuzuwu]

Was looking into it more and it seems like the EA888 has special laser "etching" on the cylinder walls. Tried to find more technical information on this like he has in the video.

I honed mine. Been 30k miles and burns no oil. Figured if their fancy laser machine worked so well I wouldn’t be rebuilding the damn engine in the first place. Also the cylinders looked like shit so i had to do something


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[Theiceman]

Honed mine also. No issues so far.

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[Shane Horning]

I always hone them

[petemuss]

to add another data point, my MY2015 went from ZERO consumption to 1QT every 1000mi just after rolling 100K

[Theiceman]

to add another data point, my MY2015 went from ZERO consumption to 1QT every 1000mi just after rolling 100K

Yes it does seem to be a common trend that once it starts consumption zseems to be exponential

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[silver_tt]

I honed mine. Been 30k miles and burns no oil. Figured if their fancy laser machine worked so well I wouldn’t be rebuilding the damn engine in the first place. Also the cylinders looked like shit so i had to do something


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Could you please elaborate specifically what you saw in the cylinders? Were they scored?

[Zuzuwu]

Could you please elaborate specifically what you saw in the cylinders? Were they scored?

One side of the cylinders looked more worn than the other, like the piston favors one side. I don’t have a better way to describe it than that, its like an inch wide strip running down the cylinder walls on one side that looked darker than the rest of the cylinder. I was on the fence about having it bored, but it cleaned up like 80% with a hone so i just left it.


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[silver_tt]

Thanks for the reply. Interesting, I wish you had a picture, I have never heard about anything like that before. It almost sounds like very mild bore scoring mild in that you could hone most of it out....but maybe not, maybe something totally unrealated.

Which is something I have wondered about this engine. With so many cases of oil consumption due to clogged oil control rings and such, I don't really understand why these cylinders don't score. I have yet to see a confirmed case of a 2.0T engine scoring. Cast iron is very hard, much more so than, say, Aluminum or Alusil, but still -- this carbon is extremely abrasive. I don't really understand why having that abrasive texture running up and down your cylinder walls thousands of times per minute doesn't score the cylinder walls frequently.

[Theiceman]

yeah mine were pristine and you could still see original cross hatching. that is the very first thing before you decide to rebuild or junk engine.

[g-rex]

I've got all the parts in hand now and I'm getting gasket surfaces cleaned up before putting everything back together.

In the "not surprising" category, I dropped the head off to get it hot tanked and replace the valve seals. It wasn't pretty on the intake side.

[silver_tt]

You're doing this right. Those valves look pretty typical of a GDI engine at that mileage.

One of the advantages of the Driven DI40 oil I'm running is that is has a low NOACK volatility which reduces build up and is much easier on your PCV. The following is an outstanding write up if anyone is interested. It explains a lot of the moves the industry has made and why ZDDP is so important. If you have the time to read this I promise you won't be disappointed.

https://lnengineering.com/oil.html?l...&mode=list&p=2

[Theiceman]

I've got all the parts in hand now and I'm getting gasket surfaces cleaned up before putting everything back together.

In the "not surprising" category, I dropped the head off to get it hot tanked and replace the valve seals. It wasn't pretty on the intake side.

stop showing off.. those are pristine compared to what mine were like .. you can actually see your valves.. :)

[silver_tt]

Agree, those actually look pretty decent all things considered that this is GDI. I don't see any huge carbon chunks that look like they could fall off into your engine and bounce around in the cylinders.

[MyDimeIsUp]

Yes it does seem to be a common trend that once it starts consumption zseems to be exponential

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Not me. I'm still burning 1qt/1,700 miles and its been about 13k miles since I got my car. Consumption has remained the same for me. Engine build date was around 09/12 if I remember

[g-rex]

Head is cleaned up, bottom end is built now. All that’s left is to get timing finished and get intake side on, and she’s ready to go back in. Ran out of time today to time it. Should get to that tomorrow. IMG_4032.jpg


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[silver_tt]

Looking good, strong work!

So as far as parts go, you have a new water pump, pistons, head gasket, valve seals. Am I missing anything?

[Theiceman]

Looking good, strong work!

So as far as parts go, you have a new water pump, pistons, head gasket, valve seals. Am I missing anything?

Timing gear obviously.
About a billion one time use tty bolts.
Sealents.


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[g-rex]

Looking good, strong work!

So as far as parts go, you have a new water pump, pistons, head gasket, valve seals. Am I missing anything?

All of that plus:

timing gear/chain
a billion one time use tty bolts and sealant, as Iceman noted. haha
A couple of miscellaneous sensors that broke during teardown. I think I'm only in about $200 for parts that didn't want to cooperate on removal, so not great, but not bad.

[silver_tt]

Ya that's not bad, you did very well on this job.

I'm just thinking out loud but by now we know B8.5's have oil consumption problems. I am golden for the moment but things can change on a dime as we know; if I cannot escape oil consumption using chemistry/oil then I will break down my engine and rebuild it better than it ever was with waffle rings. I'm thinking you can do this for about $1500 in OE parts (I always buy at AudiUSAparts) and then even if I paid my longtime indy (with 25+ years experience on VW/Porsche/Audi) to do the work I'm thinking it would be around $3K labor (30 hours or so) -- and I know he can do it better and faster than I can. I'm thinking you could do this right out the door for $5K... or $1.5K in cash if you do it yourself. Still seems very much worth it if the car you are starting with is otherwise in good shape.

[g-rex]

I'll have to do a detailed video showing the amount of carbon buildup on the rings. I'm not sure any amount of chemistry/oil magic will get rid of that, at least not what was on my rings.

[silver_tt]

You may very well be right about that. If it happens I won't be caught off guard. I do agree once the rings are gunked up nothing is getting those clean....so the only strategy is to avoid it in the first place. When I said chemistry I meant a chemically synthesized oil like mPAOs. If I go down in flames I'll take my lumps and come back stronger. Unfortunately only time can be the judge of this but tribology is my favorite topic.

Can't wait to see the video and whatever else you have. I'm going to run a borescope into the intake over the holiday and see what the valves look like. If they are bad the intake is coming off and they're getting walnut blasted.

[ps2cho]

You may very well be right about that. If it happens I won't be caught off guard. I do agree once the rings are gunked up nothing is getting those clean....so the only strategy is to avoid it in the first place. When I said chemistry I meant a chemically synthesized oil like mPAOs. If I go down in flames I'll take my lumps and come back stronger. Unfortunately only time can be the judge of this but tribology is my favorite topic.

Can't wait to see the video and whatever else you have. I'm going to run a borescope into the intake over the holiday and see what the valves look like. If they are bad the intake is coming off and they're getting walnut blasted.

Agreed - you cannot "fix" the issue, no matter what someone claims or what snake oil product. You can only mitigate which is keep oil change intervals short with a low noak oil (DI40, M1 0-40 or similar) and use injector cleaner in every tank...thats about the best you can do. I am personally going to inspect the tops of the cylinders every 20-30k and as long as they look clean with minimal carbon, you can assume that means the rings are staying the same. If your pistons are covered in carbon, the rings are going to be worse.

[Theiceman]

I'll have to do a detailed video showing the amount of carbon buildup on the rings. I'm not sure any amount of chemistry/oil magic will get rid of that, at least not what was on my rings.

not a chance, that stuff is like concrete in there.

[Theiceman]

Ya that's not bad, you did very well on this job.

I'm just thinking out loud but by now we know B8.5's have oil consumption problems. I am golden for the moment but things can change on a dime as we know; if I cannot escape oil consumption using chemistry/oil then I will break down my engine and rebuild it better than it ever was with waffle rings. I'm thinking you can do this for about $1500 in OE parts (I always buy at AudiUSAparts) and then even if I paid my longtime indy (with 25+ years experience on VW/Porsche/Audi) to do the work I'm thinking it would be around $3K labor (30 hours or so) -- and I know he can do it better and faster than I can. I'm thinking you could do this right out the door for $5K... or $1.5K in cash if you do it yourself. Still seems very much worth it if the car you are starting with is otherwise in good shape.

those are pretty good estimates actually. the engine removal is the big PITA, the actual ring job is easy .

[ps2cho]

Ya that's not bad, you did very well on this job.

I'm just thinking out loud but by now we know B8.5's have oil consumption problems. I am golden for the moment but things can change on a dime as we know; if I cannot escape oil consumption using chemistry/oil then I will break down my engine and rebuild it better than it ever was with waffle rings. I'm thinking you can do this for about $1500 in OE parts (I always buy at AudiUSAparts) and then even if I paid my longtime indy (with 25+ years experience on VW/Porsche/Audi) to do the work I'm thinking it would be around $3K labor (30 hours or so) -- and I know he can do it better and faster than I can. I'm thinking you could do this right out the door for $5K... or $1.5K in cash if you do it yourself. Still seems very much worth it if the car you are starting with is otherwise in good shape.

If you need a lead on finding cheapest Audi dealers to get the best deals, just PM me in the future. dealers across the country have a huge variance in their markups so it can be difficult to navigate. Some are still thinking MSRP + $ is a winning strategy, others are competing on cost plus % which sometimes ends up being basically the same price as the "OES" part - get the genuine in that case.

The OES like to say its always the same part minus logo, but my experience is that it isnt that clear. There are tons of inferior OES parts out there compared to OEM.

Just went through this on my E350. GKN OES was vastly different, even though they make the axles for MB and were so poor on tolerances that it vibrated at idle. OE MB axle made by GKN fixed the issue https://www.benzworld.org/threads/e3.../post-18206671

[silver_tt]

Yes one thing I have noticed that some engines seem to run really "dirty". I don't really have a good explanation for that except that maybe those folks are 1) running crap oil 2) running crap gas or have an issue with an injector 3) doing lots of short trips 4) not taking care of things like their crankcase ventilation systems 5) a combination of all of the above

DI40 is the oil I'm running in this engine (developed by Joe Gibbs racing to address cam tappet failures). I also run a bottle of their injector defender + octane booster at least once per OCI just before I change my oil. I also run only Top Tier gas 93 octane for whatever that's worth.

[silver_tt]

If you need a lead on finding cheapest Audi dealers to get the best deals, just PM me in the future. dealers across the country have a huge variance in their markups so it can be difficult to navigate. Some are still thinking MSRP + $ is a winning strategy, others are competing on cost plus % which sometimes ends up being basically the same price as the "OES" part - get the genuine in that case. The OES like to say its always the same part minus logo, but my experience is that it isnt that clear. There are tons of inferior OES parts out there compared to OEM.

Agree. I have used AudiUSAParts for about 20 years and love them. I actually used them for Porsche parts for a long time and then when I bought a Audi was pleasantly surprised they do Audi too. They are one of the largest Porsche and Audi dealers in the country and have full access to dealer systems so they have my VIN on file and I always get the right part. Due to my relationship with them I am able to buy about 5% lower than the website price and they take my phone calls and will answer all my questions. They always have tons of inventory and when I buy parts if I don't use them they are totally nice about taking them back for a full refund if they are unused.

One thing I agree with you on is that all OEM parts are not the same. For example I have seen people get brake jobs at the dealer and they used cheap crap pads that dust like hell. The ones I put on my car from Audi Beaverton (that is AudiUSAParts) don't dust at all. I don't really trust buying from a lot of places as they are selling fakes, old versions of parts, and all sorts of other shady shit.

[g-rex]

The fun real starts tomorrow. PCV and spark plugs and it’s ready to go back in.

IMG_4094.jpg


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[g-rex]

The motor is back in and bolted up to the motor mounts and transmission. Now for the tedious process of reconnecting a million electrical sensors haha.IMG_4113.jpg


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