Full Frame Build: G35-1050

[AldermanToffee]

This will be an ongoing thread for my engine, turbo, and transmission build on my S4 B9

There's a lot of outdated information posted throughout this thread as it was started a few years ago. I've made a lot of changes since the beginning, but I'll try to keep the main post up to date with the latest information.

Engine work

• Platinum rods and pistons from Italian RP with a slightly lower compression (10.3 CR), including ARP L19 rod bolts
• Main studs and head studs from Pro Series Fasteners
• Ported and decked cylinder heads with stronger beehive springs and fasteners from Supertech Performance
• Billet intake manifolds with fuel rails from Artek Motorsport
• Engine was built by Hybrid Tune in Diss, England
• Headwork was completed by CNC Heads UK

Turbo kit

• G35-1050 turbo kit was originally made by Walton Motorsport and further adapted by Hybrid Tune
• Full heatshielding on the manifolds and screamer pipe from Immico TLC
• Straightgate butterfly-valve wastefrom from Turbosmart, along with a Gen V Raceport BOV
• Boost control is performed with a Cortex EBC from SIRHC Labs

Fueling

• Upgraded HPFP that flows 97% over stock from RACE Poland - bored out HPFP that flows significantly more than all other options on the market
• OEM RS4 / RS5 DI injectors
• 6x ID1050-XDS port injectors from Injector Dynamics
• Ti E5LM LPFP from Artek Motorsport
• Port injection is driven by the Motiv Reflex from Motiv Motorsport
• Methanol injection driven by a TorqByte CM5-LTS from Torqbyte

Cooling

• Treadstone TR1245 intercooler from Treadstone Performance
• Oil cooler adapter plate from Four Season Tuning which replaces the OEM heat exchanger for an external radiator
• Large oil radiator mounted above the intercooler from Setrab
• 95c oil thermostat to replace the 115c OEM thermostat, generic VAG product

Transmission

• Stage 2 billet transmission build from Kotte Performance
• Higher stall lightweight race converter from Pure Drivetrain Solutions

Miscellaneous

• Full charge pipes from turbo outlet to intake manifolds fabricated by Hybrid Tune
• Larger throttle body from the 2.7TT with the above charge pipes enlarged to fit
• Billet PCV plate from Artek Motorsport with a custom catch can setup [catch can from AliExpress]

[AldermanToffee]

Diverter Valve Setup

The factory BOV sits on top of the factory turbo housing and is powered by an N249 valve. This valve is low-frequency and pulses the factory BOV.

I am replacing the factory BOV with a Turbosmart Race Port Gen V which will be mounted on the post-intercooler charge pipe. It will be mounted below the ECU, on the outer corner of the charge pipe.

Most people will simply plumb the BOV into the charge pipe post-throttle body. When the throttle body closes vacuum is generated in the charge pipes, which causes the BOV to open and let out any excess air / pressure built up before the throttle body.

Instead of this option I am taking advantage of the factory ECU control for the BOV, and using a 3 Port MAC Solenoid. This is for smoother control of the BOV and also to function better. It will open as soon as you begin to lift off the throttle, rather than once the throttle body has fully closed and vacuum has been generated.

• Port 1: Plumbs into stock vacuum line, next to vacuum pump. Uses 6mm vacuum hose which is "Tee'd" to the 3mm diameter of the stock factory hose. I use a 4 port manifold for this.
• Port 2: Plumbs to the top of the Turbosmart Race Port, also using 6mm vacuum hose.
• Port 3: Plumbs into the post-intercooler charge pipe, sitting between the throttle body and the Turbosmart Race Port. This also uses 6mm vacuum hose.

The MAC Solenoid is then wired to the existing N249 connector. If you don't want to splice the wires together to you purchase a used DPF sensor for a Vauxhall Corsa 1.6L Diesel. It has the same male connection as the factory BOV does for the engine harness, which makes it "plug and play".

No tuning is required for this change - it just simply works.

[AldermanToffee]

Larger Throttle Body

Bosch manufacture electronic throttle bodies in a variety of sizes. From factory the S4, S5, RS4, and RS5 Throttle Body is 50mm.

The various throttle bodies are interchangeable with each other as long as the same connector wiring is used between them. As we have a 50mm throttle body the connector we use is D261.205.358-01.

The only throttle body listed with a different connector is the 52mm, meaning the 52mm throttle body would not be usable without changing the connector and wiring.

As I am going to be having post-throttle body crossover charge pipes manufactured to mate up to the billet intake manifolds, I will likely be also upgrading the throttle body. I am still discussing this with my tuner though. There is no need to go up to any ridiculous sizes - but 54mm or 60mm would likely work well.

You can find more information about the throttle bodies on Bosch's website, including a list of the various sizes they offer.

[AldermanToffee]

Fuel system overview
This post will be brief until I'm able to provide more concrete information regarding the fuel system setup.

To summarise the fuel system changes I'm planning on implementing:

• Starting at the source, I will be running a drop-in LPFP kit that comes with a custom controller. This controller retains factory control of the fuel system but drives two OEM fuel pumps in a modified fuel basket. Both pumps follow the stock PWM driver but the second pump only kicks on at 50% DC.
• I'll be running -6AN fuel lines throughout to replace the factory fuel lines.
• An in-line fuel filter will be placed in the engine bay. This is to replace the factory fuel filter to make room for the second fuel pump in the fuel basket.
• The fuel line will then split. One section will go to an upgraded HPFP.
• I'll be adding in two additional fuel rails to support MPI. The injectors will be positioned in the billet intake manifolds.
• The other section of the fuel line will feed both additional fuel rails.

The MPI setup will be driven by a Reflex Plus controller. I'm working with Motiv Motorsport to get this controller integrated with our cars, including safety mechanisms in the event an injector fails.

The Reflex Plus will be integrated with the ECU tune, in theory allowing the stock ECU to control and essentially drive the MPI setup through the controller. This controller will also provide true Flex Fuel integration.

[AldermanToffee]

Engine valve and spring dimensions

S/RS Intake Valve
Head Diameter: 32.01mm
Stem Diameter: 5.97mm
Stem Length: 102.53mm

S Exhaust Valve
Head Diameter: 27.95mm
Head Inset: 3.01mm
Stem Diameter: 5.91mm
Stem Length: 103.22mm

RS Exhaust Valve
Head Diameter: 27.96mm
Head Inset: 9.65mm
Stem Diameter: 5.91mm
Stem Length: 103.19mm

Intake Spring
Height: 47.57mm
Inner Diameter: 15.73mm
Outer Diameter: 23.37mm

Exhaust Spring
Height: 44.22mm
Inner Diameter: 15.80mm
Outer Diameter: 23.60mm

Engine valve part numbers

Intake Valve: 06M109601E / 06M109601G
Exhaust Valve: 06M109611Q / 06M109611N / 06M109611G

[hunter_killer]

Dang this sounds like a wicked build! Best of luck and looking forward to progress are you getting the fuel system setup for a close to full e85 tune or what’s your fuel plans?


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[AldermanToffee]

Dang this sounds like a wicked build! Best of luck and looking forward to progress are you getting the fuel system setup for a close to full e85 tune or what’s your fuel plans?


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Thanks man!

I'm in the UK so we don't have access to ethanol, meaning I won't be completely using the turbo to its full potential.

Instead I will be running Methanol Port Injection. I have 6x 225cc nozzles for a total of 1350cc pure methanol.

I will likely have the car tuned for pump fuel (99 RON / 94 AKI), and pump fuel + methanol.

As for nozzle placement I will be tapping the billet intake manifolds and positioning the nozzles as close as central to each intake port as possible. I'll then run stainless steel braided lines to the back of the engine which will all connect to a 6 port distribution block. The lines will use -4AN fittings on either end, whilst the nozzle itself sits in a 1/8 NPT hole.

I have a ProMeth Solenoid that will be plumbed directly into the distribution block, and then ran back to the boot with nylon line.

[AldermanToffee]

Exhaust flanges should be with me tomorrow. Car is being taken for the turbo work this coming Thursday, with an expected 1-2 week timeframe.

I've been looking into the valvetrain for our engine and found that RS models share a different exhaust valve P/N to the S models. After further digging it seems as though RS models potentially have smaller diameter exhaust valves.. which is bizarre.

Anyhow, currently looking into bespoke valves and valve springs. There is only one shop that sells valve springs and they want €1000 for a set. They don't provide you with any specifications for the springs either..

[AldermanToffee]

Exhaust flanges arrived today.

I've been discussing the oil and coolant lines with the turbo fab shop.

I've previously had a SRM GTX3582R turbo kit on the car but that blew to pieces. Luckily I'm able to reuse those oil and coolant lines as they're compatible with the majority of Garrett's turbos. They're all stainless steel braided lines with AN fittings with the exception of the oil return which is two fittings with a rubber hose.

This brings me to the issue though.. the originally plan was to take that rubber hose off and replace it with a longer piece for the turbo. However after looking over the line the turbo shop have said that the ID of the engine-side fitting is way too small and likely won't flow enough, so we've got to figure out a new solution. I believe the stock oil return has an ID of around 16mm but the issue is the rubber fitting so that it actually seals in the engine block. Not sure how we're going to overcome that part yet, but they can look into that further once they have the car in their shop in a few days.

If what the shop says hold's truth to it (I'll take their word since they specialise in turbo work, lol) then that could explain why SRM have had quite a few failures. Too much backpressure from the oil return could lead to the ball bearing slipping I assume, leading to the turbine wheel catching the turbine housing.

[AldermanToffee]

Engine internals have been purchased and are on the way!

- Italian RP Golden Line Rods
- Italian RP Golden Line Pistons
- ARP L19 Rod Bolts
- 2019+ OEM Rocker Arms

I've also got the Artek Billet Intake Manifolds on the way too.

My supplier is having a look around to see if we can get some ARP Head Studs too, but I wouldn't count on it. Saying that stock should be fine.

[AldermanToffee]

Major breakthrough!

Supertech have done some research for me and have confirmed that our engine shares the same valves as the EA113 + EA888.

I have attached an image of the various valve offerings from them below.

[AldermanToffee]

Valve train is sorted, gone with Ferrea's valve and spring kit for the EA855 with an extra set for our 6th cylinder.

[torinalth]

really nice work. what are you expecting out of the full frame to provide over the hybrids? just the greater top end?think it'll improve spool over hybrid due to a better layout? and approximately how much larger is this than the current pure 750, tte710, etc

[AldermanToffee]

really nice work. what are you expecting out of the full frame to provide over the hybrids? just the greater top end?think it'll improve spool over hybrid due to a better layout? and approximately how much larger is this than the current pure 750, tte710, etc

Lots more power essentially, especially on lower octane fuels.

Spool will probably be comparable to the TTE710, slightly laggier. I'm running a much larger AR - 0.83 vs 0.51 of the stock turbine housing.

The compressor itself won't be hugely bigger. TTE710 / Pure 750 / SRM GTX3582R are all around 66mm, the G35-1050 Is 68mm. However the turbo is a LOT more efficient, and I always have the option of going even bigger down the road if I want to.

I'll be happy with 700awhp+.

[AldermanToffee]

I'll be reducing the compression ratio from 11.3:1 to 10.5:1.

Car is now with the fab shop for the G35-1050 to be slapped onto it.

Not going for a screamer pipe, will be plumbed back into the exhaust.

If I'm lucky I'll be able to drive the car home afterwards.. but we will see. There's probably a good 80% chance that I'll have to get it recovered home because our engine uses a really stupid connection for the oil return and the fab shop probably won't be able to do anything themselves.

Will post photos and updates on here as they come through.

[hunter_killer]

Thanks man!

I'm in the UK so we don't have access to ethanol, meaning I won't be completely using the turbo to its full potential.

Instead I will be running Methanol Port Injection. I have 6x 225cc nozzles for a total of 1350cc pure methanol.

I will likely have the car tuned for pump fuel (99 RON / 94 AKI), and pump fuel + methanol.

Ahh I see that makes sense. I was on the Tapatalk app so I didn’t see your signature or anything. Pictures would be awesome when you have time. I’m curious with your power goals, have you thought about sleeving the block and going down to a 2.9L or did you think it wasn’t necessary?


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[AldermanToffee]

Ahh I see that makes sense. I was on the Tapatalk app so I didn’t see your signature or anything. Pictures would be awesome when you have time. I’m curious with your power goals, have you thought about sleeving the block and going down to a 2.9L or did you think it wasn’t necessary?


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No particular power goals yet, it'll be a long process I imagine and could possibly keep making advancements over the space of the next year or so.

I don't think I'll be sleeving the block or changing displacement however I am going to to 10.5:1 compression ratio instead of 11.3:1. It's a massive pain in the balls changing displacement and notifying gov of that in the UK.

Anything 700whp or above would make me more than happy for now

[hunter_killer]

No particular power goals yet, it'll be a long process I imagine and could possibly keep making advancements over the space of the next year or so.

I don't think I'll be sleeving the block or changing displacement however I am going to to 10.5:1 compression ratio instead of 11.3:1. It's a massive pain in the balls changing displacement and notifying gov of that in the UK.

Anything 700whp or above would make me more than happy for now

That’s interesting. I didn’t know you would have to notify the gov’t of a CID change. I saw you said 700 whp would make you happy so I figured that was a power goal. Dropping CR will help some what with the power (for safety) and I suppose forged rods/ pistons will probably cover the capability for more power vs stock. I was curious if it would be needed or not. There was some mention for the B8 3.0 that bringing it down to a 2.9 with a sleeve was beneficial for higher power levels. Wasn’t too many people doing forged internals and especially on the newer 3.0’s.


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[East_Coast_S4]

That’s interesting. I didn’t know you would have to notify the gov’t of a CID change. I saw you said 700 whp would make you happy so I figured that was a power goal. Dropping CR will help some what with the power (for safety) and I suppose forged rods/ pistons will probably cover the capability for more power vs stock. I was curious if it would be needed or not. There was some mention for the B8 3.0 that bringing it down to a 2.9 with a sleeve was beneficial for higher power levels. Wasn’t too many people doing forged internals and especially on the newer 3.0’s.


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Interestingly enough, one of the biggest differences in the B8 block vs the B9 block even though both sand cast aluminum is the B9 has cast iron sleeve liners already in it from factory.

I suspect that by switching the aluminum pistons/rods to cast versions should provide a very stout setup to take plenty of extra power even over what the B8 could ever achieve.

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[AldermanToffee]

Interestingly enough, one of the biggest differences in the B8 block vs the B9 block even though both sand cast aluminum is the B9 has cast iron sleeve liners already in it from factory.

I suspect that by switching the aluminum pistons/rods to cast versions should provide a very stout setup to take plenty of extra power even over what the B8 could ever achieve.

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Pretty much!

The main reason in change of CR is due to my lack of access to ethanol. I should in theory be able to push a bit more boost with less likelihood of knock.

It would be interesting to see how a 2.9L option would perform but I will leave that to somebody else heh.

[hunter_killer]

Interestingly enough, one of the biggest differences in the B8 block vs the B9 block even though both sand cast aluminum is the B9 has cast iron sleeve liners already in it from factory.

I suspect that by switching the aluminum pistons/rods to cast versions should provide a very stout setup to take plenty of extra power even over what the B8 could ever achieve.

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Good to know. How much different is the heads and cams (granted I know one is spec’d for a blower and turbo) between a B8 and B9 for flow, valve sizing, etc? I haven’t seen any info or threads comparing the two. I’ve seen a comment saying the B8 3.0’s have a block girdle from factory and the B9 does not. I haven’t really looked for a comparison sheet either. I also wouldn’t say the B8 3.0 is that far behind making what a B9 could do for power. Both platforms have made the same power. B9 has the upper hand for technology and a factory turbo setup.


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[AldermanToffee]

[AldermanToffee]

For anyone interested in a reliable HPFP: https://tuner.ru/catalog/toplivnaya_...s5-rs5-sq5-b9/

[flee]

S cover? Hmm I have a couple oilless comps under the bench, I just need you to 3D print the hot sides lol
Looks great!

[AldermanToffee]

S cover? Hmm I have a couple oilless comps under the bench, I just need you to 3D print the hot sides lol
Looks great!

S Cover Indeed. Thanks haha!

[ssanderson1]

For anyone interested in a reliable HPFP: https://tuner.ru/catalog/toplivnaya_...s5-rs5-sq5-b9/

What language is that?? Everything on the webpage is in russian or something.

[East_Coast_S4]

What language is that?? Everything on the webpage is in russian or something.

@S4Bully on IG will have a handful of them stateside for sale

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[AldermanToffee]

What language is that?? Everything on the webpage is in russian or something.

That is indeed russian. If you want to get it through a US supplier: https://ortmotorsport.com/products/b...sure-fuel-pump

[mystik4l06]

Definitely following this build. Been waiting for a full frame build to crawl out of the Forrest. Good luck with everything man!


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[AldermanToffee]

Definitely following this build. Been waiting for a full frame build to crawl out of the Forrest. Good luck with everything man!


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Thanks man! Just in time, another update:

[AldermanToffee]

Wastegate is now on.

[hunter_killer]

Man that engine bay is looking pretty good


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[AldermanToffee]

Man that engine bay is looking pretty good


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Definitely coming along 😎

[Nvbs4]

Looks baddass

[AldermanToffee]

Looks baddass

Thanks! As always, here's the latest update.

[joeyoro]

Thanks! As always, here's the latest update.

Awesome man, cannot wait to see this in its full glory! Any chance that you or your shop will be kitting this out? I am going to swap from TT to single eventually and it would be nice to have a template already ready to go. Also on that new fuel pump you posted, is that the only fueling adjustment you have added? I had the VIS (1) and the APR (twice) burn out on me and was looking to add additional injectors to keep fueling up. But if that is a solid machined pump and it is fitting the bill, I will happily fork the dough over to the Russians. lol

[AldermanToffee]

Awesome man, cannot wait to see this in its full glory! Any chance that you or your shop will be kitting this out? I am going to swap from TT to single eventually and it would be nice to have a template already ready to go. Also on that new fuel pump you posted, is that the only fueling adjustment you have added? I had the VIS (1) and the APR (twice) burn out on me and was looking to add additional injectors to keep fueling up. But if that is a solid machined pump and it is fitting the bill, I will happily fork the dough over to the Russians. lol

Hey Joey!

I'm in talks with a Motorsports company that does work on the B9 platform in regards to potentially getting this made into an off the shelf kit. My fab shop do a lot of kits for BMWs, so if the demand is there then it's definitely a possibility.

I'm not actually running ethanol for this build as I'm in the UK. I'm going to be running methanol port injection instead. The HPFP is more of just a safety net for me - they can run at higher pressure and the stock HPFP will sometimes drop off at high RPM.

I imagine you can probably get some decent power out of the HPFP on ethanol on a full frame build, but I'm not sure if it would be suitable for super-duper high power (675whp+). I can't really comment what the limits would be as it isn't something I'm personally testing myself - I'd keep an eye on Mario's work though as I know he has ordered one of the HPFPs.

[joeyoro]

Hey Joey!

I'm in talks with a Motorsports company that does work on the B9 platform in regards to potentially getting this made into an off the shelf kit. My fab shop do a lot of kits for BMWs, so if the demand is there then it's definitely a possibility.

I'm not actually running ethanol for this build as I'm in the UK. I'm going to be running methanol port injection instead. The HPFP is more of just a safety net for me - they can run at higher pressure and the stock HPFP will sometimes drop off at high RPM.

I imagine you can probably get some decent power out of the HPFP on ethanol on a full frame build, but I'm not sure if it would be suitable for super-duper high power (675whp+). I can't really comment what the limits would be as it isn't something I'm personally testing myself - I'd keep an eye on Mario's work though as I know he has ordered one of the HPFPs.

Right on brother thanks for the info! I don't have much access to ethanol here either so I run 50/50 water/methanol too. I was running full 100 octane for a while but ran out of pump even then and now turbo since it sounds like my TTE's were rebranded from 700's to 640's once they found out what they could actually do. No knock issues, dialed in the meth and I am running on crapping 91 with no knock issues either after monitoring it. So I would likely just keep it more of a "street" setup when I can just dump some meth in the tank and not worry about trying to track down ethanol or keep it in drums all the time. Thanks again for all the info and the open info dump man! Definitely good to see!

[AldermanToffee]

Right on brother thanks for the info! I don't have much access to ethanol here either so I run 50/50 water/methanol too. I was running full 100 octane for a while but ran out of pump even then and now turbo since it sounds like my TTE's were rebranded from 700's to 640's once they found out what they could actually do. No knock issues, dialed in the meth and I am running on crapping 91 with no knock issues either after monitoring it. So I would likely just keep it more of a "street" setup when I can just dump some meth in the tank and not worry about trying to track down ethanol or keep it in drums all the time. Thanks again for all the info and the open info dump man! Definitely good to see!

Hah yeah sounds about right. No worries :)

[AldermanToffee]

Found a lightweight drive plate/flex plate for the B9. It's pretty much exactly the same as the B8 DL501 flex plate.

Contacted Clutch Masters and they confirm fitment. Going to get one on order.

Here's the B8 DL501 listing: https://www.ringer-racing.com/produc...categoryId=215