Oil Pan Gasket Leak Help Needed

[jd_rs3]

Hi,

I've searched the forums and wasn't able to find much detail on this issue besides the fact it was a common problem.

On the rear / passenger side of my oil pan (where the oil pools when the vehicle is stopped), I noticed a small leak. It was dripping onto my belly pan. I proceeded to drop the oil pan, clean the old gasket material off, apply new Audi branded gasket sealant and reinstall. Months later, I noticed the leak was still present, so I repeated the process, this time ensuring that the old gasket material was completely removed (even from the sealing surface grooves) and the upper portion was clean of any residue/oil. I followed the install manual to a T and reinstalled. It's been a few weeks since then and the same area of the pan is leaking. It appears to be leaking through one of the bolt holes (video). I confirmed no leaks from above.

Has anyone else had this issue and failed repair? I'm at a loss at what I'm doing wrong. Too much / too little sealant? Bolts too tight / too loose? Audi says to torque bolts to spec right away, while everything I'm seeing online instructs to let the sealant setup for a half hour before torqueing the bolts.

The only other thing I can think of is the small imperfection in that area of the oil pan, circled in red below. I did smooth it out a bit before installing however.

Any help / sharing of your experience appreciated!

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[extrememike]

Everything you mentioned sounds correct to me. However a leak reappearing on that side after installation could indicate maybe sealant failure due to additional expansion as higher temperatures are correlated with higher oil volumes.

The only thing I can think is to check the metal to metal fit on that leak side (with a clean oil pan surface of course).

If you used the same OEM sealant twice, then I would consider just to use a comparable product from another brand.

This one is LOCTITE brand
https://www.europaparts.com/oil-pan-...d176501a1.html


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[jd_rs3]

Thanks for your input. I've read a few methods for checking the clean flange connection involving oil and flour, which I may try to confirm the pan isn't bent.

That's actually the sealant I used the first time, with the pictured sealant (above) being the most recent product.

It may be time to bite the bullet and replace the pan and/or have an audi tech perform the repair. It's not rocket science, so I'm leaning towards possible mechanical issue at this point (bent pan flange).

[sleeperwagon]

I will add so you don't feel alone. My shop, HS Tuning, replaced my pan this summer and it still leaks. My leak is not crazy and the drips are slow. I have a lift so its been very easy for me to clean the bottom a few times. My RS3 is only a weekend car now so I did the last oil change last month and cleaned it up but still small drips. The shop is an hr away so I haven't made it a point to get back to him but I will this month before I store the car for the winter.

[jd_rs3]

Sounds like you have the exact same problem as me. It's a bummer to hear that yours is still leaking despite replacing the pan. I assumed pan replacement would be the cure all. My local mechanic recommended the following:

1. Replace pan
2. Ensure mating surfaces are sanitary and use "the right stuff" silicone on both surfaces
3. Apply silicone (lightly) to bolt threads
4. Allow to cure for 12 hours
5. Torque to Audi spec

Another thing he mentioned that I haven't seen any discussion on is internal pressure. If some boost is getting past piston rings, it could be positively pressurizing the crankcase. He told me to ensure the crankcase is properly ventilated. As I understand it, Audi has a stock crankcase vent diaphragm, but I don't know much about the system. Is it possible these can fail?

I just changed my oil so I'm not motivated to attempt the 3rd repair just yet. Certainly there are some RS3s that do not leak, so possibly a design flaw or the installation is very particular with the amount of gasket maker and bolt specs. I tried to get as close to spec as I could, but alas I have failed, again.

[BeastMaster]

I decided to take my car for an in-between service oil change. I pre-paid for all routine maintenance thru 50K miles when I bought the car. However, after having it on the track a few weeks ago, I decided it's best to change the oil, since it's been 6 months since the last Audi service. I took it to an independent shop that specializes in European cars, and that has done all my upgrades thus far. The tech pointed out that my oil pan is also beginning to seep. The car has 16,500 miles on it, which seems low for something like this to happen. The tech said it's a common problem with this engine. He recommends an aftermarket replacement they use that supposedly is superior to OEM and won't cause this problem. I trust this shop, so I'll be going that route.

[jd_rs3]

Do you mind sharing details about which aftermarket option they recommend?

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[Potatohead_RS3]

I would try 'Right Stuff' before buying an expensive pan. I can see how doing it a bunch of times would be annoying though.

[jd_rs3]

I would try 'Right Stuff' before buying an expensive pan. I can see how doing it a bunch of times would be annoying though.

This is the stuff that my mechanic recommended as well which I did not use on the last attempt and it is leaking again

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[Alex D]

Reseal it with hondabond or any other high quality form in place gasket.


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[5CYL_BTLSHIP]

The issue isn't the pan. The issue is Audi uses such a small amount of sealant from the factory that they tend to leak over time. I resealed mine using the oem sealant making sure I put a very generous amount without going overboard and it's been fine.

[kornsined]

Mine just got done in November under warranty. I'll keep you posted if it starts to leak.

[closcer]

I'm having the same issue and its really annoying. Small drips of oil in my driveway, they are accumulating on the passenger side bolts like shown in the video. I retorqued to Audi specs, but still facing a slow leak. I only drive this car on weekends and it has 21,400 miles.

[jd_rs3]

When I had engine troubles recently, before selling the car, a euro shop removed my pan for inspection and reinstalled. This was the 3rd time the oil pan had been r&r'd. It continued to leak in the same area. I really think the only solution might be the Iroz oil pan. Good luck.

[Alex D]

When I had engine troubles recently, before selling the car, a euro shop removed my pan for inspection and reinstalled. This was the 3rd time the oil pan had been r&r'd. It continued to leak in the same area. I really think the only solution might be the Iroz oil pan. Good luck.

Did Iroz release a new oil pan? I am only familiar with their oil pan spacer that reuses the factory oil pan.

[closcer]

When I had engine troubles recently, before selling the car, a euro shop removed my pan for inspection and reinstalled. This was the 3rd time the oil pan had been r&r'd. It continued to leak in the same area. I really think the only solution might be the Iroz oil pan. Good luck.

Thanks for the response. This is what I was looking at, but don't know a lot about JDY:

https://jdyperformance.com/products/...tfsi-daza-dnwa

Iroz has their spacer, so maybe this would resolve it - https://irozmotorsport.com/product/ims-oil-pan-spacer/

[Alex D]

Thanks for the response. This is what I was looking at, but don't know a lot about JDY:

https://jdyperformance.com/products/...tfsi-daza-dnwa

Iroz has their spacer, so maybe this would resolve it - https://irozmotorsport.com/product/ims-oil-pan-spacer/

JDY seems to have a reputable presence on the facebook groups. Their oil pan seems to be a quality piece despite it being made in China. Their response time and customer service seems to be highly praised.

[MESOGLEA]

The mating surfaces may not be square. Have you checked the block and pan with a straight edge?
Its a PITA but you could make a fiber gasket yourself.

[kevin#34]

mine (2020 TT-RS, 21.300 km, DNWA engine) started to leak as well..
is there a TSB, or any other internal info available?
considering to try the reseal by myself, even if I changed oil just 4.000 km ago

[Potatohead_RS3]

Just pull it off at next oil change and use Permatex Right Stuff. You don't need a lot like a 1/8" bead is fine and make sure the surfaces are clean. If it's not sealed after that then something is very wrong.

[kevin#34]

ok, thanks for suggesting...
just took a look at elsawin, and it says that after oil pan removal, all the 25 bolts must be replaced… guess (and hope) it's just an excessive precaution (would be rather expensive to follow…)

[jd_rs3]

Just pull it off at next oil change and use Permatex Right Stuff. You don't need a lot like a 1/8" bead is fine and make sure the surfaces are clean. If it's not sealed after that then something is very wrong.

This is what my chevy mechanic suggested and I planned on doing the 3rd time, at some point, but the shop ended up doing it while it was there (not sure what gasket product they used).

[kevin#34]

you suffered from oil leak for 3 times? in how many miles?

[jd_rs3]

Sold it around 30K miles

[kevin#34]

disappointing, can't understand why Audi did not put a stupid 5$ o-ring

[closcer]

I'm doing this in a few weeks with more of the VAG silicone sealant. I don't plan on replacing the bolts, but wanted to wait since I recently replaced the oil and wanted to wait as long as possible before dumping it...

ill report back.

[jd_rs3]

Good luck. I wouldn't have too much faith in the VAG sealant. I would do as recommended above and use "The Right Stuff." Let us know how it goes.

[kevin#34]

going to do the job soon me too, but struggling to find here in Italy the Permatex right stuff... any suggestion for a similar paste in the Loctite line-up?

https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/...s/loctite.html

[kevin#34]

any feedback on this, as an alternative to the right stuff ?

https://victorreinz.us/products/reinzosil-rtv-silicone

[jd_rs3]

I was thinking back on this issue today after seeing your reply. I really don't think the sealant itself is the problem. I have a theory...

When I removed the oil pan the 2nd time in attempt to fix this leak, I had it off the car for a day or 2. In that time, I noticed oil was still leaking from the engine, I guess as expected. What's peculiar is that the oil was collecting and dripping from the area where it leaked when the oil pan was installed. Presumably, the lowest spot. I think that when new oil pans are installed with fresh sealant, oil is draining to that area and mixing with the sealant before it has a proper chance to cure. I don't know a solution to this besides reaching up underneath the engine and trying to "dry it out" as best as you can right before installing the new pan and sealant in order to give the new sealant the maximum amount of time to setup and cure before fully torquing everything down. I could be totally off base but it is one possible explanation as to why it keeps failing in this same area for multiple RS3's.

[Potatohead_RS3]

The surfaces need to be clean and dry. No silicone is going to stick to an oily surface. Use some brake clean and completely flush the area out if required.

The Right Stuff cures in 90 minutes, most RTV's are 12-24 hours for full cure, which is another bonus as with regular RTV you really shouldn't add oil to the engine for at least a few hours and I probably wouldn't run the thing until they have fully cured.

The VR stuff the OP linked looks pretty good. But I have never used it personally.

[NapalmEnema]

I was thinking back on this issue today after seeing your reply. I really don't think the sealant itself is the problem. I have a theory...

When I removed the oil pan the 2nd time in attempt to fix this leak, I had it off the car for a day or 2. In that time, I noticed oil was still leaking from the engine, I guess as expected. What's peculiar is that the oil was collecting and dripping from the area where it leaked when the oil pan was installed. Presumably, the lowest spot. I think that when new oil pans are installed with fresh sealant, oil is draining to that area and mixing with the sealant before it has a proper chance to cure. I don't know a solution to this besides reaching up underneath the engine and trying to "dry it out" as best as you can right before installing the new pan and sealant in order to give the new sealant the maximum amount of time to setup and cure before fully torquing everything down. I could be totally off base but it is one possible explanation as to why it keeps failing in this same area for multiple RS3's.

Sounds reasonable to me I think you're on to something based on your experiences with it.

[Jainuss]

when I did mine I put the silicon on the pan and used a microfiber and cleaned up the mating surface of the block. Then i wiped of residual oil front up inside about 1" to prevent any oil from running down long enough to torque the bolts down. The first time i did the pan i did not have the 45 degree gauge to torqe them and just made them snug that did not work. Still leaked and worse than it did originally. I bought new bolts and did the same process over again and torqued using the gauge and no leaks at all. The other thing i noticed is the channels on the oil pain mating surface, just make sure you get those filled in with a "just right" bead of silicone. Good luck hope it works

[Dimsum222]

I've done this repair as already recommended above. I would like to reiterate what Potatohead_RS3 said in that the two mating surfaces need to be absolutely clean and oil free before re-installation, especially the oil pan upper. Brake clean and/or IPA with clean lint-free cloths. The upper is particularly hard to keep oil free as a lot of residual will drip down. I installed mine immediately after application of Dirko HT Grey, and left it undisturbed for a minimum of 24 hours at >70F ambient temp before refilling with oil. Fortunately I was installing a TTE700 at the same time, which allowed ample time to cure. Have put around 12k miles thus far without recurrence.

oilpan_1.jpgoilpan_2.jpgoilpan_3.jpgoilpan_4.jpg

[NapalmEnema]

I've done this repair as already recommended above. I would like to reiterate what Potatohead_RS3 said in that the two mating surfaces need to be absolutely clean and oil free before re-installation, especially the oil pan upper. Brake clean and/or IPA with clean lint-free cloths. The upper is particularly hard to keep oil free as a lot of residual will drip down. I installed mine immediately after application of Dirko HT Grey, and left it undisturbed for a minimum of 24 hours at >70F ambient temp before refilling with oil. Fortunately I was installing a TTE700 at the same time, which allowed ample time to cure. Have put around 12k miles thus far without recurrence.

oilpan_1.jpgoilpan_2.jpgoilpan_3.jpgoilpan_4.jpg

Quality job there nice one!

[kevin#34]

do the 1st pic (with red circles) refer to the oil pan after disassembly or before reassembling?
I'm going to do the sealing job in 2 weeks, but I will not have the chance to let the car resting for more than an hour before refilling (I will use my mechanic car lift), hope it will not affect the effectiveness of the cure.... (however the sealant should be dried in 20 minutes, according to maker)

I've done this repair as already recommended above. I would like to reiterate what Potatohead_RS3 said in that the two mating surfaces need to be absolutely clean and oil free before re-installation, especially the oil pan upper. Brake clean and/or IPA with clean lint-free cloths. The upper is particularly hard to keep oil free as a lot of residual will drip down. I installed mine immediately after application of Dirko HT Grey, and left it undisturbed for a minimum of 24 hours at >70F ambient temp before refilling with oil. Fortunately I was installing a TTE700 at the same time, which allowed ample time to cure. Have put around 12k miles thus far without recurrence.

oilpan_1.jpgoilpan_2.jpgoilpan_3.jpgoilpan_4.jpg

[Dimsum222]

That first pic with the red circles is right after disassembly. It shows how the factory sealant is inadequate in some areas. If you look closely, there are channels of bare metal across the entire width of the lip, allowing passage of oil to seep out.

I would recommend allowing more time to cure than one hour. I've dealt with oil pans like this on VW's for quite some time, and I've always had to redo them if I didn't allow enough cure time in appropriate ambient temps.

Good luck,
David

[kevin#34]

ok, appreciated

[jd_rs3]

What is the correct procedure for torquing (not Audi procedure) in general? I've read that you want to allow sealant to cure before fully torquing versus torquing to spec right away with fresh sealant? I think if torquing to spec right away it just makes the sealant too thin in certain areas, as shown in pic above with red circles.

My mechanic also recommended a small dab of sealant on bolt threads.... Thoughts on that?

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[Dimsum222]

What is the correct procedure for torquing (not Audi procedure) in general? I've read that you want to allow sealant to cure before fully torquing versus torquing to spec right away with fresh sealant? I think if torquing to spec right away it just makes the sealant too thin in certain areas, as shown in pic above with red circles.

My mechanic also recommended a small dab of sealant on bolt threads.... Thoughts on that?

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I just followed the Audi procedure *shrugs*

oilpan1.jpgoilpan2.jpg

~David