RS5 RaceChip GTS

[JGreen76]

Wow, really enjoy this GTS and XLR. Highly recommend buying both.

Extra power on 7 feels great, very linier. The XLR was a big surprise of how much I like it. Eco on 1 feels like I'm driving an A8L, and Race+ on 7 jumps like a muscle car, with more sophistication of course.

Two thumbs up

[wwhan]

Wow, really enjoy this GTS and XLR. Highly recommend buying both.

Extra power on 7 feels great, very linier. The XLR was a big surprise of how much I like it. Eco on 1 feels like I'm driving an A8L, and Race+ on 7 jumps like a muscle car, with more sophistication of course.

Two thumbs up

How is the RaceChip GTS power on 5 or 6? I don't think the setting of 7 would be compatible with our local 91 octane.

It appears the RaceChip GTS only taps into two sensors.

[JGreen76]

Correct on the two sensors. I have the Sport setting as 5, and there are solid gains. Totally worth it. They are running $100 off through the 27th.

[dal59]

Something about this product drives me crazy. On this forum it gets such great reviews and very high praise. However, if you research online, they get so very many complaints. Youtube is filled with people telling you not to waste your money.

[SharkNardo]

Something about this product drives me crazy. On this forum it gets such great reviews and very high praise. However, if you research online, they get so very many complaints. Youtube is filled with people telling you not to waste your money.

I haven't checked any YouTube vids and don't really care to. Just my .02, but my sense is that folks who post on forums like Audizine, Audiworld, etc. are Audi enthusiasts who are pretty particular about their cars and what mods go on them. They are also pretty candid about mods that meet or exceed claims and mods that don't. That's certainly how I roll. Doing your own research and understanding it comes with some level of leap of faith and some trial and error on mods you do for your own car is sort of the nature of this.

I remember when I put an OEM RS6 exhaust on my '04 A6 4.2. It was all the rage back in the day. What a debacle that was. More sound but significant power loss down low because of the reduced backpressure. Live and learn!

[scott1961]

Searching for reviews is a waste of time, only one that matters is yours. I know just putting on Pedalbox made a nice difference and car became much more alive and fun to drive. Then adding the Racechip GTS got it a bunch more power and especially TQ that you can clearly feel. Car pulls like crazy now, as hard as my Evo AWD

[dal59]

Well, once again, I seem to be last to the party.
I drove Coolwater crazy with questions about the Bull - X resonator delete kit, but he hung in there and kept answering all my questions. So, I finally bought it and could not be happier. Then, I did the same thing with Scott on the Pedalbox and he too hung in there with all my PIA questions. Now, I love that thing and can't believe what a difference it makes. And, most recently I drove everyone crazy with tuning questions. However, I just placed my order for the Racechip GTS Black and am very excited and anticipating great results.

Thank you all for your help and patience with me, and of course I will be filing my report once installed and driven.

[Empire55]

I'm in the same boat with you dal, but am more of a lurker so i appreciate all of your questions on here lol. I took the same recommendations and have the bullX on my sportback. Now considering the Racechip with their version of the pedalbox, so will be anxious to hear your opinion.

I don't think we are late to the party, i just think the mod development/demand for the rs5 is slow so its harder to find information. I love the car so far, but coming from a c7 corvette where there is a massive following/forum, the aftermarket experience has been a stark contrast.

[dal59]

I'm selling my '21 RS5 so my GTS Black is on the market if anyone is interested. PM me if interested.

Perfect. One day after I ordered mine. I hope it's not because of any problems its causing.

[scott1961]

He said it's because he is selling car. After having mine on for awhile still finding it well worth it. I'm use to spending $30k-$40k to get gains on my my NA cars so was very happy for less than $700 to get such noticeable gains for something that was so simple to install and limit warranty issues.

[Yeoman]

Perfect. One day after I ordered mine. I hope it's not because of any problems its causing.

It made the car too fast and I was about to lose my license. That, and making a $10K profit on the sale because of the market.

[DCB1951]

It made the car too fast and I was about to lose my license. That, and making a $10K profit on the sale because of the market.

??

!!

[CARBONNARDO-RS5]

It made the car too fast and I was about to lose my license. That, and making a $10K profit on the sale because of the market.

Thanks for the GTS Black. Got it installed tonight. Car runs good. Not too fast for me YET. I came from.a 2021 Supra with downpipe, cat back, intake and a Titan Protune Racechip. It was pretty fast. The pedal lag is getting to me. Might need a pedal amplifier too. This car is so smooth and tame even at full acceleration.

[Yeoman]

Thanks for the GTS Black. Got it installed tonight. Car runs good. Not too fast for me YET. I came from.a 2021 Supra with downpipe, cat back, intake and a Titan Protune Racechip. It was pretty fast. The pedal lag is getting to me. Might need a pedal amplifier too. This car is so smooth and tame even at full acceleration.

Great to hear! Be careful using launch control while on map 7.. I got lots of wheel hop

[scott1961]

Thanks for the GTS Black. Got it installed tonight. Car runs good. Not too fast for me YET. I came from.a 2021 Supra with downpipe, cat back, intake and a Titan Protune Racechip. It was pretty fast. The pedal lag is getting to me. Might need a pedal amplifier too. This car is so smooth and tame even at full acceleration.

A pedal device is a must on this car, was first mod I did. I got a Pedalbox with phone app since that is what I have been using on all my cars. But since you have the Racechip might as well try their device since can control in same app

[dal59]

I just installed my Racechip this evening. Not much testing yet, I had to come in for dinner and wait for my wife to go to bed. :) A few comments / questions though.

1- To Yeoman' point. I do not think I would use launch at all with a tune as that seems to be when the most parts break. And, if I did, I would probably keep it on a 3.
2- To Scott' point. A Pedalbox, or like product is a must!! I actually felt the Pedalbox more than the tune at first.

Questions.
1- I noticed that the chip does not stay lit. It lights up when you start the car or change the power setting, but then the digital screen goes dark after about 20 seconds. Is this normal?
2- Where did you guys mount yours? I like where Scott put his but could not really find a good way or place to "mount" it. I did not just want to place it in there and I want to be able to see the digital screen no matter where I mount it. I wound up mounting mine face-up just to the left of the ECU. It gets pretty warm, but not hot.
3- Does this thing "learn" as you drive? When I first took it out right after the install, I had a noticeable lag when accelerating. I was very disappointed. It was from a dead stop and while doing 70mph on the highway. However, after driving it aggressively for the last hour or more, the lag seems to be gone. I have had my Pedalbox box on Sport +2 all along.

Comments.
1- Again, if this thing "learns" as you drive. In the beginning I really did not feel much. if any of a difference, but now I do.
2- I have my settings as Eco - 4, Sport - 5, Race - 6.
3- Install was very easy. The hardest parts were trying to decide where to mount it and to get my App to connect. Apparently, you have to put in a 6-digit pin after the serial no. and the directions did not even mention this.

Now, at the end of my cruise, a little while ago, I tested my 0-60 time to see if there was any improvement. I was not expecting much, if anything, but I sure was hopeful. I went to the same stretch of road I always use, understanding that all other conditions were different than my last test, but there is nothing I can do about that. Without "launching" I reduced my 0-60 by .2, from a 3.7 to a 3.5. I just did a little power brake between 1500-2000 rpm' and let it rip. I think that is awesome results and might bring my 1/4-mile time down from an 11.7 to a 11.5, but who knows.

[wwhan]

.....
3- Does this thing "learn" as you drive? When I first took it out right after the install, I had a noticeable lag when accelerating. I was very disappointed. It was from a dead stop and while doing 70mph on the highway. However, after driving it aggressively for the last hour or more, the lag seems to be gone. I have had my Pedalbox box on Sport +2 all along.

Comments.
1- Again, if this thing "learns" as you drive. In the beginning I really did not feel much. if any of a difference, but now I do.
.....

I don't know if the Racechip module learns, but the Audi ECU does adapt & learn. The OEM ECU probably needs to adapt to the new conditions imposed by the offset data from the Racechip.

[dal59]

I don't know if the Racechip module learns, but the Audi ECU does adapt & learn. The OEM ECU probably needs to adapt to the new conditions imposed by the offset data from the Racechip.

Wonderful. I just got off the phone with Racechip and they basically said what you are saying. They said the chip is specifically tuned for the RS5 but of course every engine is a bit different. They did not use the word "learn" but did say that the chip will keep "adjusting the values" it is receiving from your engine and ECU and continue to make improvements. They said it is extremely common (normal) for the performance to improve as you drive the car more.

Thank you for your input, wwhan.

[CARBONNARDO-RS5]

I ordered my XLR from Racechip today to go along with the App Controled GTS Black. Hoping to get a little more edgy throttle response in all modes with this addition.

My car seems to have gotten faster after driving some miles with the GTS installed. I am at 7 on Race, and 5 in sport.

[scott1961]

I just installed my Racechip this evening. Not much testing yet, I had to come in for dinner and wait for my wife to go to bed. :) A few comments / questions though.

1- To Yeoman' point. I do not think I would use launch at all with a tune as that seems to be when the most parts break. And, if I did, I would probably keep it on a 3.
2- To Scott' point. A Pedalbox, or like product is a must!! I actually felt the Pedalbox more than the tune at first.

Questions.
1- I noticed that the chip does not stay lit. It lights up when you start the car or change the power setting, but then the digital screen goes dark after about 20 seconds. Is this normal?
2- Where did you guys mount yours? I like where Scott put his but could not really find a good way or place to "mount" it. I did not just want to place it in there and I want to be able to see the digital screen no matter where I mount it. I wound up mounting mine face-up just to the left of the ECU. It gets pretty warm, but not hot.

Until I read this didnt even know there was a display :) , so not sure why you need to look at. I have mine secured to a hose that is in that cubby, this keeps it from moving and away from that hose towards firewall that must be for ac since it sweats.





Can't even tell I have unit in car.

[HurrayFive]

For anyone that cares to know a little bit more without getting overly technical, all of these piggyback devices (some brands call it "chipping" but that's a misnomer to me because it harkens back to the days of putting actual additional daughter board microcontroller chips inside the ECU, but whatever) work the same way, it's actually deviously simple with today's cars. They plug directly to the MAP sensors (and some support the fuel pressure sensor, like the JB4, which it uses to increase injector rail pressure for E85 blends) responsible for measuring boost and smartly (IE, via a microcontroller in the box that's attached to the cables in the engine bay) apply resistance to the circuit to make the ECU think the car is under-boosting, and the ECU corrects by commanding more boost.

This is so easily possible because for the past 15 years or so now modern cars all come with wideband O2 sensors due to increasing emissions requirements. These sensors provide very high resolution data on the spent exhaust gas measured hundreds of times per second, feeding the data to the ECU to course correct lean or rich conditions based on actual spent gases. This let's the piggybacks fool the ECU into under-boosting (these are the maps you're changing, increased resistance to the circuit forces the ECU to command more boost, on the JB4 map 1 is +2PSI, map 2 is +3PSI, map 3 is +4PSI, etc), the ECU course corrects back to it's torque target and adds more boost as a result, this is done in real time conjunction with the spent exhaust gas wideband data which is reading ACTUAL (the result of true boost, which is more than stock) and the ECU goes, "wait a tick, we're running lean, we need more fuel!" And so fuel is automatically added to compensate for the extra air being added by the extra true boost, even though the ECU is never seeing more than stock boost levels from the sensor data.

This is a quick and dirty simple explanation, and each ECU architecture varies in how it applies boost (Bosch MD1 architecture uses torque target to make the same boost in all weather/altitude conditions, so it doesn't target a fixed boost level), but this is more or less what's happening. With the MD1 there is no adaptation period at full throttle once you install a piggyback, WOT is all the beans from the moment the device is attached. However, supplemental environmental tables applied at part throttle adapt over time, and so part throttle becomes a bit more aggressive after roughly 3 start/stop cycles.

The JB4 not only uses the OBDII plug for high resolution data logging, but also as filtering device to apply smoothing to the raw SENT sensor data so the car applies power as smoothly and close to stock as possible. It also lets you log every map to see when knock correction is occurring so you can back off a map due to fuel that isn't high enough octane. Burger has you start on the lowest map and send logs (or just read them yourself, the data is easy to interpret) and increase maps only as logs are clean and free of knock. Taking a quick look at RaceChip's docs, it looks like they're using a similar approach of starting low and driving...but to more or less expect people to "feel out" if a map is knocking and to not increase the map if that is the case. I can guarantee you you'll have no idea that only a single cylinder is regularly getting knock correction without logging, so just keep that in mind and run whatever map they recommend for your octane rating if you want to be safe.

Enjoy the extra power! The JB4 on map 2 is adding ~+50HP/+60TQ over stock on 92 octane and the logs are completely free of knock correction based on the dragy times I've run now, so on pump gas I'm guessing you'll see about the same w/ the RaceChip device.

[dal59]

Thank you for that information.

The Racechip comes with 7 map settings and each unit comes with the factory default setting on map no. 5. However, as far as I know, this is the suggested setting regardless of where you live and the level of octane available in your area. So, whether the highest octane in your area is 91 or 93, the suggested setting is map no. 5. And they do tell you that you can try maps 6 & 7 and use them if you do not experience any problems. But as you point out, how would anyone ever know if there was any knocking occurring.

I believe that most people feel that if map 5 is okay for people that can only get 91 octane where they live, then it is probably okay to use maps 6 or 7 if they have 93 octane available to them. This may be a reasonable assumption, although I'm really not sure. I do run 93 octane and I have mine set to map 5 for day to day running around and planned on using map 6 for the occasional highway encounter. I had no intention on using map 7. Not because I knew the things you pointed out, but only because I saw no reason to "push it" just for what may be another 7-10 HP. I never feel comfortable maxing anything out. Having said all that, if I understand you correctly, it sounds like even if I stick with my plan, my engine could be knocking away and I would never know it.

Last, I guess I was under the impression that there were some safeties built in by Audi to protect the engine from knocking or running too lean and if it were, the ECU would adjust the A/F ratio accordingly, or at very least give us a CEL if there was a real problem.

So, without being able to log the map, who the heck knows what map to run this thing on.

[HurrayFive]

Thank you for that information.

The Racechip comes with 7 map settings and each unit comes with the factory default setting on map no. 5. However, as far as I know, this is the suggested setting regardless of where you live and the level of octane available in your area. So, whether the highest octane in your area is 91 or 93, the suggested setting is map no. 5. And they do tell you that you can try maps 6 & 7 and use them if you do not experience any problems. But as you point out, how would anyone ever know if there was any knocking occurring.

I believe that most people feel that if map 5 is okay for people that can only get 91 octane where they live, then it is probably okay to use maps 6 or 7 if they have 93 octane available to them. This may be a reasonable assumption, although I'm really not sure. I do run 93 octane and I have mine set to map 5 for day to day running around and planned on using map 6 for the occasional highway encounter. I had no intention on using map 7. Not because I knew the things you pointed out, but only because I saw no reason to "push it" just for what may be another 7-10 HP. I never feel comfortable maxing anything out. Having said all that, if I understand you correctly, it sounds like even if I stick with my plan, my engine could be knocking away and I would never know it.

Last, I guess I was under the impression that there were some safeties built in by Audi to protect the engine from knocking or running too lean and if it were, the ECU would adjust the A/F ratio accordingly, or at very least give us a CEL if there was a real problem.

So, without being able to log the map, who the heck knows what map to run this thing on.

You're absolutely right that a piggyback leaves intact the factory safety limp mode and bail out algorithms in the ECU; even stock, the car uses knock correction to adapt to climate, altitude, and fuel octane, all via the same loop I described, primarily that wideband O2 sensor. This means sudden catastrophic failure of a piggyback will always result in the ECU's safety protocols taking over.

That saaiiiddd, these are not meant to be constant, drastic corrections. You're effectively "tickling the dragon's tail" by *solely* relying on this mechanism without any logs. The ECU will apply knock correction to the maximum capacity as is capable within the stock tuning, but, for example, if I went and ran the JB4 on map 6 (+7PSI and only meant for 100+ octane/E40 blends) all day everyday on pump 92, the car might initially drive fine, because the ECU is counteracting that I'm asking for way too much boost for my fuel and so is applying a boatload of knock correction to reduce peak timing and commanded boost to a level where the knock levels off, but that means that your new *baseline* is always inducing a crazy amount of knock that gets offset via correction and not a happy engine does that make long term.

Point being that logging is the only way to be sure how the car is performing in this respect. Brands like RaceChip and the other one I see a lot but can't remember the name of likely only give you a maximum capability that is intended more for pump gas (91-94) and not as extreme as a map 6 and above on the JB4, so whatever their default map is, it's likely totally fine for pump gas.

I've seen people that run map 3 on the JB4 on 91-92 octane (it's meant for 93) but they don't understand the logs or even log at all, and I personally HAVE logged (extensively, on 4 different types of B9 now), and am only comfortable on map 2 on 92 (don't have 93 here), because it's mostly knock correction free. If I run map 3 the car drives totally fine and pulls just as hard but there's a constant 2-5 degrees of knock correction spread across the cylinders that gets worse as IAT's climb, and that's too much for me, so I keep it one map lower where the logs are clean like stock. If I didn't have the logs, I'd never know that correction was occuring because you can't feel it when driving.

All of that to say, I'd personally stick w/ whatever the folks are RC recommend as default for a given octane level just because you can't log to see what's happening on the knock correction front, even if the car feels fine on a more aggressive map without changing octane.

[dal59]

You're absolutely right that a piggyback leaves intact the factory safety limp mode and bail out algorithms in the ECU; even stock, the car uses knock correction to adapt to climate, altitude, and fuel octane, all via the same loop I described, primarily that wideband O2 sensor. This means sudden catastrophic failure of a piggyback will always result in the ECU's safety protocols taking over.

That saaiiiddd, these are not meant to be constant, drastic corrections. You're effectively "tickling the dragon's tail" by *solely* relying on this mechanism without any logs. The ECU will apply knock correction to the maximum capacity as is capable within the stock tuning, but, for example, if I went and ran the JB4 on map 6 (+7PSI and only meant for 100+ octane/E40 blends) all day everyday on pump 92, the car might initially drive fine, because the ECU is counteracting that I'm asking for way too much boost for my fuel and so is applying a boatload of knock correction to reduce peak timing and commanded boost to a level where the knock levels off, but that means that your new *baseline* is always inducing a crazy amount of knock that gets offset via correction and not a happy engine does that make long term.

Point being that logging is the only way to be sure how the car is performing in this respect. Brands like RaceChip and the other one I see a lot but can't remember the name of likely only give you a maximum capability that is intended more for pump gas (91-94) and not as extreme as a map 6 and above on the JB4, so whatever their default map is, it's likely totally fine for pump gas.

I've seen people that run map 3 on the JB4 on 91-92 octane (it's meant for 93) but they don't understand the logs or even log at all, and I personally HAVE logged (extensively, on 4 different types of B9 now), and am only comfortable on map 2 on 92 (don't have 93 here), because it's mostly knock correction free. If I run map 3 the car drives totally fine and pulls just as hard but there's a constant 2-5 degrees of knock correction spread across the cylinders that gets worse as IAT's climb, and that's too much for me, so I keep it one map lower where the logs are clean like stock. If I didn't have the logs, I'd never know that correction was occuring because you can't feel it when driving.

All of that to say, I'd personally stick w/ whatever the folks are RC recommend as default for a given octane level just because you can't log to see what's happening on the knock correction front, even if the car feels fine on a more aggressive map without changing octane.

Again, good info, thank you. I suppose I will call tech support tomorrow and ask them for the recommended map for 93 octane. If it is map 5 for 91 octane and maps 5,6&7 for 93 octane, then I think I will feel more comfortable with my planned map usage. Also, then I would know if I was driving out of state and I could only get 91 octane, I would know not to exceed map 5 until I can get more of the 93.

Also, I fully understand your explanation regarding Audi' built in safety protections, and it is great to know that the piggybacks do not cancel or interfere with them. Also, understanding they are really to be used more for emergency situations as opposed to your daily way of compensating for an improper A/F ratio. However, it is still rather re-assuring to know they are there just in case.

tks, dal

[dal59]

Side Note: This just reminded me of an article and video I saw a while back of a new BMW M3, with a JB4, making more power on the dyno using map 2 instead of map 3. I cannot remember but I think it may have been due to the fuel available to them. Meaning, on map 3, the car had to correct for the lower octane level by pulling timing and thereby reducing power. I guess logging and a dyno is the ultimate way to determine the best map. Alas, I will have to settle for manufacturers recommendations.

[scott1961]

I only use Shell 93 in my car so for the most part run in map 6 and 7 and car drives great. When I supercharged my past cars I always monitored a/f and fuel trims to see how things were running, have been doing same with RS5, will this give any indication of knock?

[HurrayFive]

Side Note: This just reminded me of an article and video I saw a while back of a new BMW M3, with a JB4, making more power on the dyno using map 2 instead of map 3. I cannot remember but I think it may have been due to the fuel available to them. Meaning, on map 3, the car had to correct for the lower octane level by pulling timing and thereby reducing power. I guess logging and a dyno is the ultimate way to determine the best map. Alas, I will have to settle for manufacturers recommendations.

Yiss, I've run the same 3 year old JB4 unit on four different B9's now and my '19 SQ5 did this at the track. I put a full can of Lucas Oil racing formula octane booster (it adds about two full octane points based on my logging) to half a tank of pump 92 (so effectively ~94 octane) and it completely removed all of the knock correction in the logs on map 3 (+4PSI) and was my fastest map at the track in that car. It ran a 13.5 @ 100MPH stock, and a 13.00 @ 105MPH on map 3 with the bottle of octane booster. I upped it to map 4 (+5.5PSI) and logged a run and it was slower (13.2 @ 103) with a bunch of knock correction as you climbed gears and as IAT's rose, by the end of the run it was pulling 5 degrees of timing advance and limited boost to less than what I saw on map 3.

Map 2 on the RS5 is the sweet spot with 92 octane, no timing pull and clean logs, I could get away with map 3 on a really cold day for maybe one run, but any more than that and it would likely run slower than map 2 because of the timing correction.

I only use Shell 93 in my car so for the most part run in map 6 and 7 and car drives great. When I supercharged my past cars I always monitored a/f and fuel trims to see how things were running, have been doing same with RS5, will this give any indication of knock?

Best indicator is to look at overall ignition timing advance if your logging solution shows it (if you can't look at the individual cylinder knock correction values). Steep dips in overall timing advance mean a lot of knock correction is occurring and so the car is killing timing to dial it back down.

I see about 22PSI of peak boost on map 2 at sea level where I'm at and 15-16 degrees of peak timing advance in clean logs. If you're regularly seeing less advance than that it's likely due to knock correction because your fuel octane isn't good enough for the conditions. Keep in mind a map that's good for cold winter temps may not be good in warm summer temps as IAT's will rise faster and high IAT's are the quickest way to pull down peak timing advance for a given octane, so you will often have to step back a map in the summer. A single octane point makes a big difference on these cars in the logs so 93 octane should be fine for whatever the RaceChip's more aggressive 93 map is.

[HurrayFive]

Just to illustrate what I'm talking about a little more clearly, below is a quick screenshot of a JB4 log I took this evening of a 1st through 4th pull on map 3 on a warm car. I purposely ran it on map 3 to show what the knock correction looks like with only my 92 octane gas. Even though the car felt strong and I hit almost 25PSI by the end of 4th gear (the ECU was doing all it could to counter the shitty IAT's and peak timing advance by adding more boost to hit torque target), this entire run is full of timing correction and I barely made 10 degrees of peak timing advance throughout. I am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that this would actually be a *slower* 1/4 mile run than what I've done so far on map 2, even though map 3 asks for +4PSI vs +3PSI on map 2. It's just asking for a little too much boost for my octane and IAT conditions.



In this graph time runs left to right, so the green RPM line represents RPM in 1st through 4th gear and letting off around 6K RPM in 4th and then coasting in 5th for a second before ending the log. Timing correction across the cylinders in this graph is represented as the "Ign 2-6" values on the bottom of the graph, and ideally you want that number to be as close to zero as possible. You can see that throughout this pull, I'm seeing large spikes across all cylinders, almost over 5 degrees of requested correction by the end of the run. Ign 1 represents overall timing advance. On map 2 (or stock), this hits 15-16 degrees of peak advance, and here you can see I never really break 10, and the ECU is requesting more boost to try and compensate for the reduced torque caused by the lower peak timing advance.

All that to say, this map feels fine driving the car, and it pulls well, but like my SQ5 running a 13.0 with clean logs vs a 13.2 with noisy logs, you want as close as possible to zero knock correction to keep the engine happy long term. Without the ability for detailed logging, always default to the more conservative map for your given octane. Last post I'll make about the importance of matching a map to a given octane, promise 😂

[scott1961]

I appreciate the info Hurrayfive and have learned a good amount. I know I can monitor timing so going to go for a ride and see what that shows.

[dal59]

HurrayFive - Thank you so much for the great, detailed info. 90% of it is over my head, but I get the gist - more is not always better, and it is much better to prevent the knocking instead of asking the ECU to keep correcting for it.

Scott - I will be eagerly awaiting what data you come up with when comparing maps 5,6 & 7 on 93 octane. This should be very interesting.

And I will be calling RC tomorrow to ask them on their map recommendations for 91, 92 & 93 octane based on their logging, and report back accordingly.

[secondchance]

I can't believe no one in here was kind enough to share the authentic installation guide for all Racechip models. Sorry gents, here it is, thank me later or whatever.Untitled.jpg

[CARBONNARDO-RS5]

I have had Racechips on 6 vehicles now

2016 CLA250
2013 CLA 45 AMG
2016 Infiniti Q50 RedSport 400
2019 Genesis G70
2021 GR Supra
2019 Audi RS5 Coupe

I have had many fast cars, and tune with SCT software, HP Tuners and ECUFlash (Evo 8/9).

From my experience you can run 93 octane fuel and turn up to maximum settings on the Racechips.

I did have some spark knock/misfire that you could feel on high rpm high gear pulls on the Genesis G70 and the Supra when running too high of a setting. The Racechip that I had/used was for a 2020 Supra ( which had less boost from the factory than the 2021 model) so that could have been part of the problem with it. The 2021 came with 50 more HP that the 2020 models.

I have been running my RS5 on setting 7 on the GTS black based on Scotts feedback. It pulls very hard and very smooth. If there is misfire or knock retard (correction happening) it is very smooth and undetectable by the seat of the pants.

Also, typically mid range knock is hard to feel as it happens too quickly. I normally use a long 3/4 mile uphill grade to do the pulls. This allows for full throttle pulls up to 140 mph to feel the smoothness or lack of smoothness in the upper RPM, where its most problematic for knock.

FYI, the Genesis G70 went from a low 13.2 to 12.9 car to a 12.2 second car with just the Racechip GTS installed on map 5 out of 7. This was Dragy confirmed. A slightly used Racechip is the best bang for the buck mod you can do on an electrically controlled wastegate car.

I am interested to see the timing data log from Scotts car.

[HurrayFive]

I have had Racechips on 6 vehicles now

2016 CLA250
2013 CLA 45 AMG
2016 Infiniti Q50 RedSport 400
2019 Genesis G70
2021 GR Supra
2019 Audi RS5 Coupe

I have had many fast cars, and tune with SCT software, HP Tuners and ECUFlash (Evo 8/9).

From my experience you can run 93 octane fuel and turn up to maximum settings on the Racechips.

I did have some spark knock/misfire that you could feel on high rpm high gear pulls on the Genesis G70 and the Supra when running too high of a setting. The Racechip that I had/used was for a 2020 Supra ( which had less boost from the factory than the 2021 model) so that could have been part of the problem with it. The 2021 came with 50 more HP that the 2020 models.

I have been running my RS5 on setting 7 on the GTS black based on Scotts feedback. It pulls very hard and very smooth. If there is misfire or knock retard (correction happening) it is very smooth and undetectable by the seat of the pants.

Also, typically mid range knock is hard to feel as it happens too quickly. I normally use a long 3/4 mile uphill grade to do the pulls. This allows for full throttle pulls up to 140 mph to feel the smoothness or lack of smoothness in the upper RPM, where its most problematic for knock.

FYI, the Genesis G70 went from a low 13.2 to 12.9 car to a 12.2 second car with just the Racechip GTS installed on map 5 out of 7. This was Dragy confirmed. A slightly used Racechip is the best bang for the buck mod you can do on an electrically controlled wastegate car.

I am interested to see the timing data log from Scotts car.

I'm sure the RaceChip is fine even on it's highest setting's on 93 because it likely doesn't have a map meant to take advantage of much more than 93-95 octane on purpose so that people don't go blowing up engines by running a map meant for 104 octane. There's still a lot of power to be made even with only 93 octane, I'm adding at least 50HP on the second lowest map (map 2) on the JB4 on 92 octane, and so 60-70HP on map 3 if I had access to 93 octane isn't out of the question. That means the RaceChip device (which works the same way) is capable of similar gains on 93.

I'd argue a used JB4 ($500) is the better value for modern EWG cars because it adds high resolution data logging via the app and race fuel/E85 blend support via the high pressure fuel sensor connector. You can actually adjust commanded rail pressure via the JB4 app (because of the fuel rail sensor) to run up to E40 blends and account for the extra fuel volume ethanol requires without maxing out fuel trims and injector duty cycle. The B9 S4/5 runs about a 12.7 @ 107 stock, and I ran an 11.69 @ 116 on map 6 with an E40 blend with the JB4 in my last B9 S5. Flash tunes are now faster, but for a piggyback device, it's very capable.

Regardless, will be curious to see if any of the RaceChip maps are showing timing correction, because as in my example run last night, I couldn't "feel" any of the correction in my logs when I was running one map too high for my 92 octane, but it's clearly still there and not how you want to be running your car long term.

[scott1961]

Didnt have much time today but did get out for a quick ride. I know nothing about ignition timing, only thing I ever monitored after adding superchargers to cars was a/f and fuel trims. From looking at ignition timing today I was seeing 15-25 when accelerating, when I would take foot off gas would go minus, is that normal? I drove with tune on and off and timing looked about the same both ways. This was just driving around my town so wasnt much speed involved. I do have a log but have no idea how to put it here, looks like it is in an excel file, no nothing about this stuff. I know the Racechip along with pedal box has made a huge difference in car, it really does pull like crazy and off the line feels more like my 640hp Evo

[HurrayFive]

Didnt have much time today but did get out for a quick ride. I know nothing about ignition timing, only thing I ever monitored after adding superchargers to cars was a/f and fuel trims. From looking at ignition timing today I was seeing 15-25 when accelerating, when I would take foot off gas would go minus, is that normal? I drove with tune on and off and timing looked about the same both ways. This was just driving around my town so wasnt much speed involved. I do have a log but have no idea how to put it here, looks like it is in an excel file, no nothing about this stuff. I know the Racechip along with pedal box has made a huge difference in car, it really does pull like crazy and off the line feels more like my 640hp Evo

Next time you go out, just do a 1st through 4th full throttle pull to redline and put the log file in a Google doc and I can take a look. At part throttle you'll see it spike to 25 degrees or so, all you care about is peak when you're at WOT through a pull as IAT's rise with each gear change.

I can confirm the RS5 is just as fast as my stock RS7 was on pump 92 (11.4 @ 119, 3.3 0-60) as measured via dragy with the RS5 running the JB4 on map 2, so you're not wrong about the car feeling much quicker with the RaceChip on 93, it's probably trapping 3-4MPH over stock, which is a big gain on pump gas! I think the car has an 11.3 @ 120 in it (at sea level in decent DA) based on the couple of runs I've done without using true launch control, which would be about a 70HP gain over what it traps stock.

[scott1961]

Thanks, I will do that. Are you saying the time I want to look at ignition timing is at/near WOT? When I did hit the gas from a stop it did seem I was right around that 15 you mentioned. Car seems to be driving great and no CEL's, I remember doing a Unitronic tune on my RS4 and constantly got them. So I'm pretty confident with the Racechip causing no issues

[HurrayFive]

Thanks, I will do that. Are you saying the time I want to look at ignition timing is at/near WOT? When I did hit the gas from a stop it did seem I was right around that 15 you mentioned. Car seems to be driving great and no CEL's, I remember doing a Unitronic tune on my RS4 and constantly got them. So I'm pretty confident with the Racechip causing no issues

Yup, you only care about peak advance at WOT, and 15-16.5 degrees seems to be about as much as you see stock, and when running a piggy and your fuel octane is right for the map. What becomes interesting to see is how peak advance changes as you slam through the gears in a full speed WOT pull; the longer you're at WOT (like you would be in a standing 1/4 run, or a freeway 60-130 pull), the more IAT's climb, and so the more likely you are to see timing correction in the later gears than if just doing a single 2nd gear rip, for example.

If you post up a 1st-4th or 5th WOT pull log file I can take a peek and explain what's going on, but that you're at least seeing 15 degrees of peak advance at WOT is a good thing and means you're probably fine. 👍

[CARBONNARDO-RS5]

I like doing a WOT 4th gear pull only from 2000 rpm to redline. It will show the timing very smoothly if no knock. You can get more datalog samples on a long single gear pull and will see high load low rpm torque timing and how well it pulls. Car won't feel as fast but shows how good the tune is for the fuel in the weather that day. Very easy to read that graph in excel too.

[dal59]

I spoke with RC this morning and they pretty much confirmed the things we have been discussing. Mainly, the only way to be absolutely certain of the best map for your specific vehicle is with logging and dyno testing. Since most people do not have this available to them, they chose to recommend map 5 as this best suited most vehicles, weather conditions, octane levels and other contributing factors.

They did also confirm that higher maps definitely do not necessarily mean more power. Scotts RS5 may make its highest power on map 7, whereas mine may make its highest power on map 5 and may actually make less power on map 7. Keep in mind the "butt dyno" is nearly useless. I feel very confident in saying that very few people, if any, could "feel" a difference of 5-10 HP. And, as we already know, you also cannot feel any knocking or pulling of timing.

RC recommends starting with map 5 whether you are using 91 octane or 93 octane and then testing with higher maps. They then state, if the car is driving well with the higher map, you can then use that higher map, if not, then drop it back down. However, again as previously stated, the car can be driving wonderfully and still be knocking, pulling timing and making less power with a higher map. Even when Scott gets and reviews his logs, that hopefully will tell him which map is best for his car, but not give us any indication of which map is best for our cars. There are just way too many variables to consider. How much HP was Scott's car making when stock? What other mods does he have? What was the temperature when he tested? What is the elevation where he lives? This is why RC recommends map 5. It just happens to be the best all-around map for most cars, under most conditions. PERIOD

In conclusion, I am following RC' recommendation and using map 5. If I decide to use maps 6 or 7, I could be making power, or be losing power. I can be adding knocking, or not be adding knocking. However, to me, if you are not sure what your changes may cause, then why make the change? Until, or unless I can get my car on a dyno and check logs and power levels, I am a map 5 guy.

Last night, a little after 1am, I went out to "test" my car. In the past, my best 1/4-mile time was 11.7 while using launch control. However, last night I did an 11.7 without using launch control. I was in map 5 and just did a little power brake to about 2k rpm and then floored it. In the past, when my car was stock, I did a comparison of 0-60 times with and without launch control. Without launch control the 0-60 times were always .2 - .3 seconds slower. While certainly not a scientific test, I am going to say that it would be reasonable to believe that now with using launch control, I could easily see an 11.5 1/4-mile while in map 5.

[HurrayFive]

Nice run! You can get a pretty solid launch without a full launch control launch while still engaging launch control so that the transmission shifts in slightly faster AMAX mode, you'll feel the difference in the shifts. If you're fully stopped, everything Dynamic, traction control full off...brake pedal to the floor and then press the gas through the floor past the kickdown switch and RPM's will jump up to settle in to launch control and if you let off the brake pedal as soon as the RPM's are still on the upswing to about 3K RPM, you still get a decent launch without putting the extra stress of fully loading up the torque converter, and you'll get those AMAX shifts. I let it AMAX shift itself 1-2, 2-3, then short shift 3-4, 4-5 at about 6200RPM.

My best 60' so far with this method is a 1.71, if I'd gotten that same 60' in my 11.57 @ 119.7 run (which was a horrible launch, 1.89 60'), it would have run an 11.39 all the same, so I know the car has an 11.3 in it with a decent launch, as it sits on 92. A true, wait for boost to build launch control launch should be capable of a 1.6 60' but I never use it, too much stress on a couple of tiny little gears in the transmission.