B9 S4 rocker arm issue.

[c99]

To prevent this I use 0W-40 oil, now Mobil 1 X3 ESP, which is VW511.00 (oil for powerfull engines like 4.0TFSI RS6,7 RSQ8), HTHS=3,8.
I change oil every 10 000 km. Now 55 000 km on it , no such issue.

3,0TFSI (S4, S5, SQ5) 0W-20 VW508 oil has got too thin oil layer, HTHS=2,6 (!!!) and with long time oil change interval may be a killer.

[biador619]

So just got a quote to replace all rocker arms on my B9S4 (preventative action)… $4,600. Not sure that I want to move forward with that yet as I have not seen to many posts or articles on failed rocker arms. $5k is a lot to spend on something that may never happen but I’m sure it’s cheaper than if something were to happen. My only concern is that I am stage 3 plus. I do run 5w40 and I rarely do I ever drive my car as hard as I should lol. Just wanted to get some opinions. 80% not to swap… 20% to swap…


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[oesman]

I would not preemptively spend that much money. We don't know the failure rates and it's a lot of money. People swap oil pump gears on another platform I'm on, but that's a somewhat high probability failure (dozens of clearly confirmed cases) with forced induction and like +/- $1,300 to pay someone else to do. I would just set the $4k aside if you're worried about future engine failure.

I always expect a risk of engine and/or drivetrain failure when going beyond basic bolt-on. It's something that happens and I don't think $4K in new rockers (mostly labor I assume) guarantees that you've avoided failure scenarios. What if you blow up the trans instead? Break an axle? I'd rather just anticipate expensive repairs instead of attempting to guess what is going to be the weak spot of your build if you decide to beat the crap out of it. Even that OPG failure I mentioned on the other platform, if it was $4K to fix most people wouldn't do it, it's not like it's a 10% change, it's not even a 1% chance given total units sold. But at $1300 ($300 if you DIY) it's not a terrible idea if you figure you have a maybe at worst 1/100 chance of blowing up your engine.

[angrycatmeow]

I thought I read on here somewhere it cost someone roughly $5k to do the repair after they failed, including new cams and stuff, so that seems Ike a lot.

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[oesman]

I thought I read on here somewhere it cost someone roughly $5k to do the repair after they failed, including new cams and stuff, so that seems Ike a lot.

Yea I would expect somewhere from 5-10k depending on extend of the damage, labor rates, etc...

[DavidZ]

I also sent my sq5 to a dealership for checking the engine ticking noise.

The ticking happens when car is warm and I accelerate it.

A technician drove the car with me. He can tell that the noise isn’t from either DI or HPFP. So leave my sq5 for the further investigation.

I occasionally drive it with 5000rpm. I hope the rocker arms are fine.


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[AldermanToffee]

$4600 to take pre-emptive action on an issue that occurs on 0.0001% of engines, or $5000 for repairs if they fail?

Seems like a no brainer to me. It’s pretty easy to tell if your rocker arms are failing or not, they’re noisy and distinctive. Haven’t seen any big repair bills other than replacing rockers from people that have had them changed over when they first noticed it. All 5 people it’s happened to, that is..

[DavidZ]

$4600 to take pre-emptive action on an issue that occurs on 0.0001% of engines, or $5000 for repairs if they fail?

Seems like a no brainer to me. It’s pretty easy to tell if your rocker arms are failing or not, they’re noisy and distinctive. Haven’t seen any big repair bills other than replacing rockers from people that have had them changed over when they first noticed it. All 5 people it’s happened to, that is..

To me, the pre-emptive is a kind of overkill. Maybe, most of the ppl only lease Audi instead of buying them so I never heard of the rocker arm issue before. But the Audi dealership must be aware of it because they mentioned a few possibilities of the ticking noise, including rocker arm failure. To ensure that my sq5 doesn’t have this issue, they kept my car and would do the further investigation.
So if someone’s car have the similar ticking noise and the car is still under the warranty, go visit a dealership. When I visited the dealership first time, they didn’t check it carefully and just gave me the runaround. So when they followed up the service quality, I didn’t give them 5 stars. Their service manager called me directly and let me bring the car in another time. 🥱


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[biador619]

$4600 to take pre-emptive action on an issue that occurs on 0.0001% of engines, or $5000 for repairs if they fail?

Seems like a no brainer to me. It’s pretty easy to tell if your rocker arms are failing or not, they’re noisy and distinctive. Haven’t seen any big repair bills other than replacing rockers from people that have had them changed over when they first noticed it. All 5 people it’s happened to, that is..

Thanks for the input bro. Yea I really wasn’t okay with spending 4k in that small of a chance that my rockers might fail. I thought of spending 4k on replacing them but then imagined “what if the original rockers don’t fail?” I would have wasted 4k. Thanks for everyone’s input. I won’t be replacing them. Maybe I’ll use that money on air suspension lol.


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[AldermanToffee]

Thanks for the input bro. Yea I really wasn’t okay with spending 4k in that small of a chance that my rockers might fail. I thought of spending 4k on replacing them but then imagined “what if the original rockers don’t fail?” I would have wasted 4k. Thanks for everyone’s input. I won’t be replacing them. Maybe I’ll use that money on air suspension lol.


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Sounds like a much better idea, lol.

[DavidZ]

To me, the pre-emptive is a kind of overkill. Maybe, most of the ppl only lease Audi instead of buying them so I never heard of the rocker arm issue before. But the Audi dealership must be aware of it because they mentioned a few possibilities of the ticking noise, including rocker arm failure. To ensure that my sq5 doesn’t have this issue, they kept my car and would do the further investigation.
So if someone’s car have the similar ticking noise and the car is still under the warranty, go visit a dealership. When I visited the dealership first time, they didn’t check it carefully and just gave me the runaround. So when they followed up the service quality, I didn’t give them 5 stars. Their service manager called me directly and let me bring the car in another time. 🥱


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Bad news. The technician did find some metal flakes inside the engine. They will report the issue to Audi Canada with the pics and wait for the solution.

So if you do hear the ticking when accelerating the car. You’d better to check the engine thoroughly.


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[Robvoip]

You need to be careful though when talking about ticking.

The extremely fast marble like tick between 1500-3000 is normal, you can even hear it as the rpms are descending if you listen closely. This is most likely reverb from injectors and hpfp.

The rocker arm failure tick is slower and you can hear it on idle, it sound alike a hammer on metal.

Every ea839 I tested make that sound between 1500-3000.

I brought my car to a Quebec Audi dealer just for this awhile back and they confirmed it's normal, they also have never seen or heard of a rocker arm failure either when I asked.

[DavidZ]

You need to be careful though when talking about ticking.

The extremely fast marble like tick between 1500-3000 is normal, you can even hear it as the rpms are descending if you listen closely. This is most likely reverb from injectors and hpfp.

The rocker arm failure tick is slower and you can hear it on idle, it sound alike a hammer on metal.

Every ea839 I tested make that sound between 1500-3000.

I brought my car to a Quebec Audi dealer just for this awhile back and they confirmed it's normal, they also have never seen or heard of a rocker arm failure either when I asked.

I hope my sq5 is fine.

The Audi dealership took the pics of the metal flakes from the engine oil filter and they are not sure how bad it is.

Normally, there are always metal particles captured by the engine oil filter, but they shouldn’t be seen by naked eyes.

They have sent the pics already so the only thing I can do is waiting for the result for Audi.

Fortunately I bought the extended warranty, they rented a car for me.


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[oesman]

Normally, there are always metal particles captured by the engine oil filter, but they shouldn’t be seen by naked eyes.

Any pictures of the filter?

[DavidZ]

Any pictures of the filter?

I will ask for them and post them here when I pick up my car.


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[c99]

So just got a quote to replace all rocker arms on my B9S4 (preventative action)… $4,600. Not sure that I want to move forward with that yet as I have not seen to many posts or articles on failed rocker arms. $5k is a lot to spend on something that may never happen but I’m sure it’s cheaper than if something were to happen. My only concern is that I am stage 3 plus. I do run 5w40 and I rarely do I ever drive my car as hard as I should lol. Just wanted to get some opinions. 80% not to swap… 20% to swap…


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I still think it's waste of money, when You hear no knock sound from the engine. These guys made a panic to sell more these repairs.

Only reason to change rocker arms from Audi is, the new ones are the same as 4.0TFSI rocker arms and it's cheaper to produce only 1 type of them for these not "mass production" engines.

[A4 Centaur]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otfln0yBGwM

[SHCKR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otfln0yBGwM

That's 30 minutes of my life I'll never get back... They didn't really show anything! All tree top level.

[oesman]

I will ask for them and post them here when I pick up my car.

Any luck with the dealer, figure out what it is?

[zzoikkeli]

Im curious about how all of your engines sound without oil filler cap? So far only vag-technik has recorded the internal noise. The white S4 in one of their latest videos seemed to be quite loud without the cap, compared to the RS5.

[DavidZ]

Any luck with the dealer, figure out what it is?

Unfortunately, the dealership didn’t give me anything useful. They said they didn’t take the pics, which I am really doubtful. But they said the metal particles felt like dust. That will be fine if they are honest.

They sent out the oil sample and waiting for the report now.

They only checked the oil filter, but oil pan. Whether or not the engine needs to be broken up depends on the oil analysis and the car’s maintenance history. But nothing is new so far. I will update this thread once I get the final result.


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[oesman]

Im curious about how all of your engines sound without oil filler cap? So far only vag-technik has recorded the internal noise. The white S4 in one of their latest videos seemed to be quite loud without the cap, compared to the RS5.

Your engine will be incredibly loud and sound like knocking if you take the cap off. You're creating a massive vacuum leak which the ECU will try to handle so the engine doesn't stall.

Unfortunately, the dealership didn’t give me anything useful. They said they didn’t take the pics, which I am really doubtful. But they said the metal particles felt like dust. That will be fine if they are honest.
They sent out the oil sample and waiting for the report now.

It's entirely possible your metal in the filter was pretty minor if it's not ferrous and not granules but fine dust. You aren't really ever not going to have wear. No one's oil analysis ever comes back with nothing in it after thousands of miles, especially with hard driving. I can't recall the last time I dissected a filter and found nothing. I had more dust and sparkly flakes than I liked in my last filter, my oil report came out fine, if anything less metals than many of the others that get posted here. I just switched to 5w40, will see how this filter is at same 4k miles with a bunch of hard 1/4 mile launches and will test the oil again too. I took it off at 500 miles and carefully checked the pleats with a light, didn't see much of anything. I think I saw one or two tiny sparkles. May still be early though, just an 1/8th of the last filter's life.

I will update this thread once I get the final result.

Definitely curious how your report looks and what if anything they find. Any reason they didn't check the pan if they're the ones that were alarmed by the metal?

[c99]

I search motor-talk.de, German biggest forum about cars and there is no B9 S/RS/4/5 rocekr arm issue.

If nobody talks about it in Germany, where is a lot of these cars, the issue is really rare.

[Auditude437]

So I recently brought my SQ5 in for service and my service advisor said that the production date of my car was 08-06-2018 while my delivery date was 10-07-2018.... However, the time stamp on my door and on the tubes in the engine bay is 05-06-2018. How do I know which date to consider as far as the revised rocker arms are concerned?

[oesman]

So I recently brought my SQ5 in for service and my service advisor said that the production date of my car was 08-06-2018 while my delivery date was 10-07-2018.... However, the time stamp on my door and on the tubes in the engine bay is 05-06-2018. How do I know which date to consider as far as the revised rocker arms are concerned?

I don't think anyone has a clear answer for this yet. Some believed it was the engine date code on the radiator hose (search earlier in the thread, I linked a picture), but now it seems they were possibly burning through stock of the old rockers even after the new design superseded it into 2019 potentially.

[E.Anderson]

So I recently brought my SQ5 in for service and my service advisor said that the production date of my car was 08-06-2018 while my delivery date was 10-07-2018.... However, the time stamp on my door and on the tubes in the engine bay is 05-06-2018. How do I know which date to consider as far as the revised rocker arms are concerned?

Either way you're on the old rockers. The revision wasn't until mid 2019

[SHCKR]

I search motor-talk.de, German biggest forum about cars and there is no B9 S/RS/4/5 rocekr arm issue.

If nobody talks about it in Germany, where is a lot of these cars, the issue is really rare.

I have to agree with you (watch me blow my top end tomorrow lol) but I think we've only seen a handful of catastrophic failures.

[CAL30]

Hey guys,

I’m from germany and also an active user of the forum motor-talk.de.

I have read all these comments here and I think we shouldn’t exaggerate this whole rocker arm topic.

I own an S5, I know a lot of folks who also own an S4/RS4 or an S5/RS5. None of them had ever heard about this issue.

No reported problems in the Motor-Talk forum nothing.

Let’s calm down…

[Jacksav1502]

I believe all s4s after produced after june 2018 had the rocker arm issue fixed

[CELison]

I believe all s4s after produced after june 2018 had the rocker arm issue fixed

It was mid 2019 for the first rev.

[CAL30]

I believe all s4s after produced after june 2018 had the rocker arm issue fixed

They use the Version 3. OP2109417 since 08.06.18
and it’s not a rocket arm fix, it’s just another version.

Again no problems reported in Germany

[oesman]

I don't think anyone knows a firm date. There was a 2019 torn apart that had the old rockers on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdlLMMsDcZc

[CAL30]

I don't think anyone knows a firm date. There was a 2019 torn apart that had the old rockers on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdlLMMsDcZc

6th of august was the first date like I already said.

And the MY19 began already a few month before.

So it’s possible that these old rockers are still in an MY 19 car.

[Auditude437]

So if you currently have the old rockers on our car, what is the probability that they will fail? And if they do, around what mileage do you think this would happen?

[E.Anderson]

So if you currently have the old rockers on our car, what is the probability that they will fail? And if they do, around what mileage do you think this would happen?

That's an impossible question to answer as there's a large amount of variables that would increase/decrease the probability of failure. Seems like 1-2% chance of failure if I was forced to take a guess and it might not even be that high.

[Andy_FL]

.... what is the probability that they will fail?

And if they do, around what mileage do you think this would happen?

No one can possibly estimate that.

And no one can possibly estimate that either. There are not nearly enough data points out there.

[CAL30]

In Germany are over thousand S4/RS S5/RS5 and SQ5 cars with these old rocker arms for sale. Over 120 of them have a minimum mileage of 100000km/60000miles. A few of them already hit the 250000km/~150000miles.

And the Macan has got the old rocker arms, too.

So I think it’s very unlikely that a rocker arm failure occurs to your car…

[AldermanToffee]

In Germany are over thousand S4/RS S5/RS5 and SQ5 cars with these old rocker arms for sale. Over 120 of them have a minimum mileage of 100000km/60000miles. A few of them already hit the 250000km/~150000miles.

And the Macan has got the old rocker arms, too.

So I think it’s very unlikely that a rocker arm failure occurs to your car…

Don’t tell them the truth. Everyone wants to cry about the rocker arms and thinks their car on 7,000 miles needs them changing😂

[CAL30]

Don’t tell them the truth. Everyone wants to cry about the rocker arms and thinks their car on 7,000 miles needs them changing😂

😂😂👍

[oesman]

That's an impossible question to answer as there's a large amount of variables that would increase/decrease the probability of failure. Seems like 1-2% chance of failure if I was forced to take a guess and it might not even be that high.

I would really doubt it's that high. I'm sure it's under 1%. Say there are only 50,000 of these engines out there (which I'm sure there are more), 1-2% would already be 500-1000 engines. Considering how little we've heard about this actually happening, I have doubts its that many even over say the next 5+ years.