Will Audi Dealer be able to detect a previously installed JB4 Piggyback Tune? 2018/S4

[Bsquared]

Hello,

I have a 2018 Audi S4 Prestige, & am interested in retaining my factory warranty, but with a potential "undetectable" tune.

Q: Will the Audi dealer be able to detect a JB4 Piggyback Tuner's ever been installed on an S4, if it's removed prior to factory warranty service? Thanks in advance for your experiences/feedback!

-B2

[non-polarbear]

This is from my friend who is an audi salesman.

The dealer should not be able to detect a piggyback tune. However should there be a catastrophic warranty issue, audi might request the ecu to be sent to them. Audi themselves can dig deep enough into the ecu to find evidence of a piggyback but not the dealership. That would be a very extreme scenario, but it can happen.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Audizine Forum mobile app

[SHCKR]

This is why if that happens, you stick that ECU in the microwave for a few.... Good luck digging into it after that.

[STLWIDOWMAKER]

This is why if that happens, you stick that ECU in the microwave for a few.... Good luck digging into it after that.

“Really bad lightening storm lastnight”


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[SHCKR]

“Really bad lightening storm lastnight”


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

Or "idk what happened, maybe when the engine blew it fried everything"

[Bsquared]

This is from my friend who is an audi salesman.

The dealer should not be able to detect a piggyback tune. However should there be a catastrophic warranty issue, audi might request the ecu to be sent to them. Audi themselves can dig deep enough into the ecu to find evidence of a piggyback but not the dealership. That would be a very extreme scenario, but it can happen.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Audizine Forum mobile app

Thanks much for the info!

-B2

[Bsquared]

Thanks much for the info, & ecu "tips" should anything go wrong . For those that've had a JB4 Piggyback tune on their S4, was the performance increase worth the price? Thanks in advance,

-B2

[CARGUYROB]

A lot of us (including myself) have the EPL flash. EPL lets you flash from a laptop and then flash back to stock when you go in for service. Same thing as a piggyback, mostly undetectable....unless the dealer puts in a lot of effort.

I believe the EPL gives you the most HP and performance for the buck.

[SHCKR]

Thanks much for the info, & ecu "tips" should anything go wrong . For those that've had a JB4 Piggyback tune on their S4, was the performance increase worth the price? Thanks in advance,

-B2

Yes, especially while ECU tunes weren't available

[RoverJoe]

Flash tunes are much more visible than a piggyback, the flashing increments the flash counter on the PCM every time, no matter what you do. The piggyback lies to the PCM to get it to do different things, but does not adjust the OEM software. So once it's removed, there's no trace. As mentioned above though, if engineering looks at log data regarding a major failure, and sees data that is strictly implausible because the JB4 is lying to the PCM, you can be sure they know what it looks like and could give you a hard time about it, but in the end the burden of proof at that point would still be on them, and if they can't point to a flashed PCM they would have a hard time denying your warranty issues.

[George@BMS]

Flash tunes are much more visible than a piggyback, the flashing increments the flash counter on the PCM every time, no matter what you do. The piggyback lies to the PCM to get it to do different things, but does not adjust the OEM software. So once it's removed, there's no trace. As mentioned above though, if engineering looks at log data regarding a major failure, and sees data that is strictly implausible because the JB4 is lying to the PCM, you can be sure they know what it looks like and could give you a hard time about it, but in the end the burden of proof at that point would still be on them, and if they can't point to a flashed PCM they would have a hard time denying your warranty issues.

The ECU will not see implausable data otherwise it will run consistently with engine faults. The feedback to the ECU is within the range which is considered normal operation otherwise the ECU would be triggered engine faults. The ECU only stores freeze frames for faults. ECU are generally sent to Germany to check if the ECU has been bench flashed or opened.

[INS4NE_B9]

Physically not possible. As George mentioned, what the ECU sees is completely normal. Otherwise, your car would go into limp mode.

[JacobR]

As people continue to commit warranty fraud, VAG will continue to make efforts to detect this on the software side.

There are a host of other modules than just the engine ECU in the car that conceivably could be used to detect abnormalities and store data.
No aftermarket company in existence has the ability to reverse engineer every module in the car to determine what's exactly going on.

The safe assumption is to assume anything is detectable, flash piggyback, etc.

[RoverJoe]

Physically not possible. As George mentioned, what the ECU sees is completely normal. Otherwise, your car would go into limp mode.

Right, but they know what values correlate. You can lie to the MAP and WG controllers, but not to everything. They can compare the readings of every sensor, they will see differences. In reality this would only happen if they had a reason to investigate, which they really do not normally.

[George@BMS]

Right, but they know what values correlate. You can lie to the MAP and WG controllers, but not to everything. They can compare the readings of every sensor, they will see differences. In reality this would only happen if they had a reason to investigate, which they really do not normally.

The car does not continuously store data but freeze frames of when faults are triggered. There hard triggers like speed, rpm, torque are very few. The ECU would run out of data storage otherwise.

[RoverJoe]

The car does not continuously store data but freeze frames of when faults are triggered. There hard triggers like speed, rpm, torque are very few. The ECU would run out of data storage otherwise.

I'm a dealer tech, I know how it works.

I also know what data a freeze frame of a catastrophic failure fault looks like, and I'm 100% positive it's not all values the JB4 adjusts. If you are fooling boost pressures, you are in places in the required airmass tables and torque load values you normally wouldn't be. I've done tuning, I've done warranty work, trust me, if they want to find out if you had a piggyback, they could. The reality is, it's not often worth their time, and beyond asking for a scan of the car, which will show if it's got a tune but won't show a piggyback, they don't really investigate unless there is some major reason to. I'm just offering both sides of the coin, I still agree a piggyback is very hard/nearly impossible to detect and much easier to hide than a flash tune.

[George@BMS]

I'm a dealer tech, I know how it works.

I also know what data a freeze frame of a catastrophic failure fault looks like, and I'm 100% positive it's not all values the JB4 adjusts. If you are fooling boost pressures, you are in places in the required airmass tables and torque load values you normally wouldn't be. I've done tuning, I've done warranty work, trust me, if they want to find out if you had a piggyback, they could. The reality is, it's not often worth their time, and beyond asking for a scan of the car, which will show if it's got a tune but won't show a piggyback, they don't really investigate unless there is some major reason to. I'm just offering both sides of the coin, I still agree a piggyback is very hard/nearly impossible to detect and much easier to hide than a flash tune.

the load values do not change as the ECU is still targeting stock boost and achieving stock boost so in turn airmass tables are the same. When target boost is say .8bar the JB4 sends .6bar to ECU and in turn the ECU carries on to hit its target. In this way it produces .2bar over stock. Access fueling is countered increasing fuel rail pressure for the unmeasured air using the same principle.

[Speedster00]

the load values do not change as the ECU is still targeting stock boost and achieving stock boost so in turn airmass tables are the same. When target boost is say .8bar the JB4 sends .6bar to ECU and in turn the ECU carries on to hit its target. In this way it produces .2bar over stock. Access fueling is countered increasing fuel rail pressure for the unmeasured air using the same principle.

I'm a dealer tech, I know how it works.

I also know what data a freeze frame of a catastrophic failure fault looks like, and I'm 100% positive it's not all values the JB4 adjusts. If you are fooling boost pressures, you are in places in the required airmass tables and torque load values you normally wouldn't be. I've done tuning, I've done warranty work, trust me, if they want to find out if you had a piggyback, they could. The reality is, it's not often worth their time, and beyond asking for a scan of the car, which will show if it's got a tune but won't show a piggyback, they don't really investigate unless there is some major reason to. I'm just offering both sides of the coin, I still agree a piggyback is very hard/nearly impossible to detect and much easier to hide than a flash tune.

I picked up an 18 S4 last weekend thats still under CPO warranty for 2 years. I really want a tune, stage 1, but Im concerned Ill void that 2 year warranty which is factory. So thats the million dollar question.. If I go with EPL where I can pull the tune before service, how likely are they to void my warranty becuase I tuned it? My wife would be pissed if any warranty got cancelled because I messed with the car.

[Bsquared]

Audi service guy I know/trust told me piggyback is way to go for best chance of avoiding detection by service technicians/equipment (causes T1 flag, indicating ECU's been tampered with). Also said if failed part wasn't due to tune (for example, radio, power window, steering etc. malfunctions), I'd have an argument for audi warrant to still cover repair cost. My JB4 piggyback has caused under boost/lean fuel faults, detected during routine service visits. They cleared it, & told me to come back if it returns (only happens when leaving tune active for extended period of time/hours). Of course, I remove the piggyback tune/device prior to taking into dealer for service.

[RPMtech147]

This is why if that happens, you stick that ECU in the microwave for a few.... Good luck digging into it after that.

[SHCKR]

You know I'm right...