B9 RS5 (non-DRC) Alignment - Any reason not to trust Brakes Plus or similar shop?

[303 Spartan]

This weekend I installed a KW HAS kit on my B9 RS5 w/o DRC. I marked the camber alignment bolts/washers to keep it as close to spec as possible. Then I put ~150 miles on the car to let the suspension bits properly settle into place, before dialing in the ride height where I want it.

With that out of the way, I'm now ready for an alignment. Unfortunately, the specialized VW/Porsche/Audi shop that I normally trust with my car is booked out 2+ weeks. I happen to have a brand new Brakes Plus next to my house and after calling to confirm, I was told that they can align my car and can get me in tomorrow morning.

I've read posts from other subsections of Audizine that recommend staying away from these chain shops because the alignment procedure on these newer Audis can be pretty in depth. However, it's my understanding that the complication is due to things like DRC, 360 camera calibration, lane assist sensor calibration etc. But my car does not have any of that. Just a standard static suspension, front/rear parking sensors and a rear view camera.

Because of this, I'm tempted to just let Brakes Plus handle the job. But I'm curious to hear what you guys think.

I know I could also take it to the dealer but knowing the dealers around me, they are going to try to screw me around with ridiculous alignment cost and probably want me to leave the car for 2-3 days. I'm not trying to cheap out, but I also don't want to pay more than a fair amount and potentially be without the car for much longer than necessary.

Anyway, I'm open to comments, thoughts and suggestions.

[Bullhorn717]

Well…I think you’re definitely rolling the dice on those chain shops. Hit or miss has been my experience. This isn’t alignment experience… my brother and I decided to get tires mounted on his aftermarket wheels on Sunday…he didn’t want to wait. And the only place open was a discount tire shop. Well, they overbooked the schedule but still got us in. Long story short, they couldn’t figure out how to install the TPMS properly and also dinged the rims in couple of spots. But then I had no issues before at the same chain else where. I usually service my new cars at the stealership and Audi dealers seem generally pretty competent. With something like alignment, I’d wait 2+ weeks. It could drive you crazy if they don’t do it properly.


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[303 Spartan]

Well…I think you’re definitely rolling the dice on those chain shops. Hit or miss has been my experience.

…

I hear you. I’ve had a lot of “hit or miss” experiences with chain shops, myself. Especially when it comes to mounting and balancing wheels/tires. That’s what’s giving me pause, in this situation.

I will say that after being as precise as possible in getting the camber adjustment bolts properly marked and installed/aligned, the car drives perfectly straight and handles extremely well. So I imagine any adjustments should be minor and tread wear in the mean time shouldn’t be overly excessive. So maybe waiting it out is the smartest option.

I suppose it wouldn’t hurt to at least call my local dealership to get an idea of cost and time required. Maybe I’m off base with my assumptions.

[scott1961]

I have had Audi do alignments and done pretty quickly while I waited there

[303 Spartan]

Welp, just as I suspected, the dealership says I'd have to leave the car for two days and that it will cost $600 because they "absolutely" have to recalibrate the pre-sense cameras.

Admittedly, I forgot about those cameras. I'm just not buying the need to recalibrate them, in this case. It's not like I was in an accident or hit a major pothole that would have thrown everything out of whack. I simply swapped out the springs, lowered the car ~1/2" and re-bolted/re-torqued everything to factory spec.

It looks like my best bet is to just hold out until I can get it into the specialized independent shop I know I can trust. I've seen them working on performance cars that are MUCH more expensive/rare than mine. If they say they can handle the job just fine for $150, that seems to be the best option.

[scott1961]

Yikes! Guess was a lot easier on my R8's

[303 Spartan]

Yikes! Guess was a lot easier on my R8's

Yeah, I never seem to have good luck with my local Audi service departments. Every time I give them a shot at getting my business, they inevitably start going on about how variable X means it's going to cost me $XXX more than it otherwise would and that they'll have to keep my car for at least 24 hours for something that should take no more than 2 hours. Each time, it's the same BS and all I can think is...

[Bullhorn717]

$600?! Wow. I’d wait for the Indy shop! I wonder how sensitive those sensors are. I had a Toyota Tacoma and had the truck lifted. The dealer told me it doesn’t void the warranty but slapped on an obnoxious warning sticker on the gauge cluster area, basically saying the safety presense is inaccurate due to suspension height modification etc. it was nuts. I asked to recalibrate the sensor if possible but they flat out refused and slapped on the sticker instead. I’m guessing it maybe a legal thing.


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[Smac770]

"lowered the car ~1/2"

Yeah, nothing that would completely throw off the ground distance calibrations....

[Dr. Jekyll]

Take it to a good, reputable Audi shop (not a dealer) and avoid the chain places unless you know the tech. I've rolled the dice on the local tire shops in the past and ended up with damage. Not to mention, the steering wheel is NEVER straight, which bugs the heck out of me.

Likewise, dealers are hit or miss with their quality of work. Damage isn't really an issue, but I haven't been impressed with their alignments (depends on the dealer, but it's an expensive and/or time consuming gamble). Not to mention, the hassle of having to explain that you don't want or need the ACC recalibration. With my RS5, the dealer was ok not performing the ACC recalibration but the alignment was terrible and they couldn't balance my BBS CI-Rs.

I've found that a reputable Audi-specific shop (for example, New German Performance in VA and MD) will take the time to do the job right and not damage or break anything. It may require a wait (or a longer drive to get there), but it's worth it IMO.

Also, no need to rush the alignment. You're alignment probably isn't too far off that it'll destroy you tires (unless you drive a ton each week). I put 300+ miles on my car before getting one and even longer before I was able to get my car in to New German to fix the dealer's terrible alignment.

[303 Spartan]

"lowered the car ~1/2"

Yeah, nothing that would completely throw off the ground distance calibrations....

Road and parking lot variations can easily shift the front/rear of the car much more than 1/2". I'm not buying that the pre-sense cameras are so sensitive that they now need a complete recalibration after a relatively minor drop.

That said, I will discuss this with the Audi certified techs at my trusted independent shop. If they say a recalibration is needed, I'll gladly pay them to recalibrate it.

Take it to a good, reputable Audi shop (not a dealer) and avoid the chain places unless you know the tech. I've rolled the dice on the local tire shops in the past and ended up with damage. Not to mention, the steering wheel is NEVER straight, which bugs the heck out of me.

Likewise, dealers are hit or miss with their quality of work. Damage isn't really an issue, but I haven't been impressed with their alignments (depends on the dealer, but it's an expensive and/or time consuming gamble). Not to mention, the hassle of having to explain that you don't want or need the ACC recalibration. With my RS5, the dealer was ok not performing the ACC recalibration but the alignment was terrible and they couldn't balance my BBS CI-Rs.

I've found that a reputable Audi-specific shop (for example, New German Performance in VA and MD) will take the time to do the job right and not damage or break anything. It may require a wait (or a longer drive to get there), but it's worth it IMO.

Also, no need to rush the alignment. You're alignment probably isn't too far off that it'll destroy you tires (unless you drive a ton each week). I put 300+ miles on my car before getting one and even longer before I was able to get my car in to New German to fix the dealer's terrible alignment.

I'm with you. I usually average ~120 miles a week, or less (which is sad). I'm good with giving it a bit more time for the suspension bits to settle so I can make any minor final height adjustments, before the alignment appointment.

My shop of choice is Autohaus of Boulder. They're an APR certified dealer and VW/Audi/Porsche specialty shop. They've never done me wrong with tuning, PPF, tinting etc. If others can trust them with suspension / drivetrain work on their 911's and R8's, I'm sure they can handle an alignment on my measly RS5. I also much prefer giving a shop like that my business, rather than the money hungry dealer or a chain shop.

[JohnEnglish]

The dealers around me all want about $1,000 to a full alignment due to calibration. I've tried a couple of independent shops and they said they don't do alignments on RS cars. I found one highly rated shop that did and they ended up messing up my alignment even more.

[303 Spartan]

The dealers around me all want about $1,000 to a full alignment due to calibration. I've tried a couple of independent shops and they said they don't do alignments on RS cars. I found one highly rated shop that did and they ended up messing up my alignment even more.

Damn it, John.

Well, from what I’m reading here and in other threads, getting a proper alignment is going to be hit or miss, wherever I take it. Whether it be the dealer, reputable independent shop, or a chain shop.

With the independent shop, if they can’t do it properly, at least I’m only out $150 before taking it to the dealer for round 2. If I first pay the dealer $600 and the alignment is out of spec, I’ll be more than just a little annoyed as I take it to the independent shop for round 2.

So independent shop, it is. I can’t believe how much of a headache these cars can apparently be to align. It’s making me miss the simplicity of the ///M world.

[JohnEnglish]

I ended up having the dealer do it and the car tracks nice and straight now. It just sucks that it cost me $1,000.

[coolwater]

Welp, just as I suspected, the dealership says I'd have to leave the car for two days and that it will cost $600 because they "absolutely" have to recalibrate the pre-sense cameras.

Admittedly, I forgot about those cameras. I'm just not buying the need to recalibrate them, in this case. It's not like I was in an accident or hit a major pothole that would have thrown everything out of whack. I simply swapped out the springs, lowered the car ~1/2" and re-bolted/re-torqued everything to factory spec.

It looks like my best bet is to just hold out until I can get it into the specialized independent shop I know I can trust. I've seen them working on performance cars that are MUCH more expensive/rare than mine. If they say they can handle the job just fine for $150, that seems to be the best option.

I had my alignment done at the dealership. $150 and no need to recalibrate the cameras. So sounds like an unnecessary upsell to me.

https://youtu.be/4IO5SVPsNh4

-cW


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[Yeoman]

Damn it, John.

Well, from what I’m reading here and in other threads, getting a proper alignment is going to be hit or miss, wherever I take it. Whether it be the dealer, reputable independent shop, or a chain shop.

With the independent shop, if they can’t do it properly, at least I’m only out $150 before taking it to the dealer for round 2. If I first pay the dealer $600 and the alignment is out of spec, I’ll be more than just a little annoyed as I take it to the independent shop for round 2.

So independent shop, it is. I can’t believe how much of a headache these cars can apparently be to align. It’s making me miss the simplicity of the ///M world.

What shop quoted $150 for an RS car? Seems off..

If the dealer doesn't get it right then don't accept the car until they do.. you will be provided a print out of the before and after measurements prior when picking up the car confirming the alignment was done correctly.. If it's not done within spec, don't accept the car back until it's done right.

[penguiNET]

Damn it, John.

Well, from what I’m reading here and in other threads, getting a proper alignment is going to be hit or miss, wherever I take it. Whether it be the dealer, reputable independent shop, or a chain shop.

With the independent shop, if they can’t do it properly, at least I’m only out $150 before taking it to the dealer for round 2. If I first pay the dealer $600 and the alignment is out of spec, I’ll be more than just a little annoyed as I take it to the independent shop for round 2.

So independent shop, it is. I can’t believe how much of a headache these cars can apparently be to align. It’s making me miss the simplicity of the ///M world.

Hey, hey...you can't just come up in here and make a post about a lowering mod and not show off photos of the car!!!!

[IamRacer X]

I am interested in this. Looking to lower my non DRC RS5 SB too.... been hearing mixed things about alignment after lowering not being able to get back into spec with out changing to after market control arms.

[BRH]

I have a 2021 RS5 and, thankfully, have not had to replace the windshield (yet). But, my wife has a 2018 Q7 and we have replaced that windshield twice. Our insurance company (State Farm first time, Allstate second time) said that they require recalibration when replacing the windshield "for any reason". Otherwise, they will not cover any subsequent damage that could be attributed to the lack of calibration. Don't know how they would know, but insurance adjusters can be pretty picky when it comes to justifying not paying a claim.

[303 Spartan]

Hey, hey...you can't just come up in here and make a post about a lowering mod and not show off photos of the car!!!!

It's nothing crazy. I lowered it just enough to eliminate the reverse rake. The end result is a fender to ground measurement of 26.5" front and 26.7" rear.

This is the final stance with 20x9.5 et25 wheels & 285/30/20 PS4S + 10mm/12mm F/R spacers.

I am interested in this. Looking to lower my non DRC RS5 SB too.... been hearing mixed things about alignment after lowering not being able to get back into spec with out changing to after market control arms.

I asked the Nemesis guys and a couple other forum members with lowered RS5's about the control arms. All confirmed that adjustable control arms are not necessary unless you plan to really slam the car. This proved true, in my case.

I had my trusted independent shop successfully do my alignment for $150. The tech told me the camera recalibration is unnecessary for a drop of 1" or less and still a questionable added requirement if you go lower. He said it's only truly necessary after an accident and/or windshield replacement.

Once he was finished with the alignment, he showed me the before/after results. Surprisingly (at least to me), my camber was very close to spec, before he even touched it. It was the toe calibration that was out of whack. He was able to get everything into factory spec within 1.5 hours and it now tracks perfectly straight and drives great.

Before I left, I asked the tech if it would be necessary to have the alignment redone if I chose to lower the car another ~1/4" (which I'm debating). He said that unless I lower it another 0.5" or more, there's really no need to have the alignment redone as the camber change would be negligible, at best.

[IamRacer X]

Good information. Glad it all worked out. Ive been told multiple times there are no adjustments for camber on these cars. Seems crazy to me. I think if I go through the expense of lowering the car, I going to take it down a good amount.... perhaps 1"+. I am also more of a rake stance guy. Maybe its my age, but I like cars to sit noticeably lower in front. Stock height looks pretty good on a low fuel tank. When full its to level for my taste.

[303 Spartan]

Good information. Glad it all worked out. Ive been told multiple times there are no adjustments for camber on these cars. Seems crazy to me. I think if I go through the expense of lowering the car, I going to take it down a good amount.... perhaps 1"+. I am also more of a rake stance guy. Maybe its my age, but I like cars to sit noticeably lower in front. Stock height looks pretty good on a low fuel tank. When full its to level for my taste.

Yep. Even with less than 1/4 tank of gas and no people or cargo in the back, my car had a slight reverse rake with the stock suspension. Add a full tank of gas and/or rear passengers and/or cargo in the trunk and the reverse rake became quite exaggerated. I cannot stand that look. My F80 M3 had it MUCH worse.

The pics I posted above are with a full tank of gas, no passengers and no cargo in the back. There's still a slight rake but I'm with you and I may drop the front another ~1/4" to make the rake a little more pronounced. Especially since I typically have a baby in the back seat, wife in the front or rear passenger seat and stroller in the trunk.

That said, I also don't want to lower it too far and find myself in frequent parking situations where the front tires get tucked. That's another look I cannot stand. It's such a fine line.

[IamRacer X]

Yep. Even with less than 1/4 tank of gas and no people or cargo in the back, my car had a slight reverse rake with the stock suspension. Add a full tank of gas and/or rear passengers and/or cargo in the trunk and the reverse rake became quite exaggerated. I cannot stand that look. My F80 M3 had it MUCH worse.

The pics I posted above are with a full tank of gas, no passengers and no cargo in the back. There's still a slight rake but I'm with you and I may drop the front another ~1/4" to make the rake a little more pronounced. Especially since I typically have a baby in the back seat, wife in the front or rear passenger seat and stroller in the trunk.

That said, I also don't want to lower it too far and find myself in frequent parking situations where the front tires get tucked. That's another look I cannot stand. It's such a fine line.

Agreed. On a side note too, how is the ride quality? How is it on the highway with dips? Having the non DRC suspension also, it’s hard to get feedback on stuff like this as most of theses cars have it.

[303 Spartan]

Agreed. On a side note too, how is the ride quality? How is it on the highway with dips? Having the non DRC suspension also, it’s hard to get feedback on stuff like this as most of theses cars have it.

I feel no noticeable difference in ride quality, compared to stock. I imagine it's slightly more harsh but if it is, it's a very minor change. My wife hasn't mentioned anything about it and she's always been super sensitive to ride quality changes in my cars.

Even on significant highway dips at speeds of 80mph+, I haven't hit the bump stops once, which surprised me. It truly does ride like stock, IMO, just lower.

[IamRacer X]

I feel no noticeable difference in ride quality, compared to stock. I imagine it's slightly more harsh but if it is, it's a very minor change. My wife hasn't mentioned anything about it and she's always been super sensitive to ride quality changes in my cars.

Even on significant highway dips at speeds of 80mph+, I haven't hit the bump stops once, which surprised me. It truly does ride like stock, IMO, just lower.

That’s great to hear. I drove mine a bunch yesterday and looking at the ride height, it’s pretty much level stock with no one in it. I’m going to give lowering it some more serious thought. I have literally lowered every car I’ve owned in the last 15 years.

[303 Spartan]

That’s great to hear. I drove mine a bunch yesterday and looking at the ride height, it’s pretty much level stock with no one in it. I’m going to give lowering it some more serious thought. I have literally lowered every car I’ve owned in the last 15 years.

I definitely get the struggle to decide if it's even worth it. Hell, I went back and forth on the idea of lowering for over 1.5 years. This car has the best stock ride height of any car I've owned. I suppose I finally pulled the trigger because I happened to have some mod money burning a hole in my pocket and was looking to take on a good car project.

My end result is a rear ride height that's nearly stock height with the front lowered to be just slightly below that. I don't imagine anyone (even car people) would ever notice the difference. Which is essentially what I was going for. ie - Stock look with a slight rake.

Anyway, good luck with the decision!

[Innovator]

I would definitely not lower the car. There are to many variables, too many electronics that will not work properly, even if recalibrated because the line of site is reduced. Additionally, the camber gets dramatically thrown out towards negative, making the car less stable in a straight line. Until there are adjustable control arms for this car, I'd pass. It will also reduce the life of the DRC if you have that, making the struts more prone to blow outs because of the reduced travel.. And FWIW, my shop specializes in this, so please don't think I'm talking out of my ass.

[ToroTheShibe]

I’m lowered on KW HAS. Fender to ground is about 26.25 and after alignment, all 4 wheels are within factory camber specs. The drop on these cars are so mild that you don’t have to worry about negative camber on factory control arms. However, due note that things like the strut and bushings will go out faster and this is something I’m okay with. When doing the install, my struts were already leaking at 10k miles. Really goes to show the “quality” behind OEM parts. Will get coilovers once they blow.

I would not take my car to get aligned by a random shop unless I absolutely need to. I wouldn’t even go to a dealership unless I know the technician working in the car. I would try to find a performance shop that specializes in track/racing. My shop offers factory or custom alignment that fits your needs. They’ll align it and test drive the car until it meets their standard. Other places I’ve gone to send the car out once they see green in the alignment paper without bothering to see how the car drives/handles.

[Innovator]

Other places I’ve gone to send the car out once they see green in the alignment paper without bothering to see how the car drives/handles.

Anything other than Green will make the car less neutral in it's behavior and increase the inner edge wear, and induce cupping. Most often what's noticed is straight line performance, as that is what suffers from a lowered car when the camber is too negative. I honestly have not seen a car with non adjustable front camber be within specs after lowering them. I've done many 100s of these over the last 25 years. Most drops are over an inch, and that's all it takes to add another 1 degree of negative camber..(1") to the front. Ideally, you would want everything in factory spec, unless you plan on racing around a track.

Having written this, I have a lot of customers that couldn't care less about tire wear or whatever else is effected...as long as they achieve the look they seek. That's certainly understandable, but to me, anything that negatively effects handling is not desirable. If you do a lot of highway driving, you would want the camber, both front and rear to be in factory spec for a more twitch free, more effortless driving experience.

[Innovator]

I feel no noticeable difference in ride quality, compared to stock. I imagine it's slightly more harsh but if it is, it's a very minor change. My wife hasn't mentioned anything about it and she's always been super sensitive to ride quality changes in my cars.

Even on significant highway dips at speeds of 80mph+, I haven't hit the bump stops once, which surprised me. It truly does ride like stock, IMO, just lower.

These cars are always on the bump stops. They are factored in to the spring rate..

[ToroTheShibe]

Anything other than Green will make the car less neutral in it's behavior and increase the inner edge wear, and induce cupping. Most often what's noticed is straight line performance, as that is what suffers from a lowered car when the camber is too negative. I honestly have not seen a car with non adjustable front camber be within specs after lowering them. I've done many 100s of these over the last 25 years. Most drops are over an inch, and that's all it takes to add another 1 degree of negative camber..(1") to the front. Ideally, you would want everything in factory spec, unless you plan on racing around a track.

Having written this, I have a lot of customers that couldn't care less about tire wear or whatever else is effected...as long as they achieve the look they seek. That's certainly understandable, but to me, anything that negatively effects handling is not desirable. If you do a lot of highway driving, you would want the camber, both front and rear to be in factory spec for a more twitch free, more effortless driving experience.

Most RS5 owners don’t drop their car even an inch to get a fender to tire look. Most springs/HAS are maxed out at .9 in drop.With that said, since the drop is so small, it did not affect the camber. After my alignment all four corners are still within the factory alignment specs. I was surprised as well. So unless users are lowering with coilovers and dumping it, I would say it’s safe to say with HAS kits, you won’t run into any excessive camber wear after a proper alignment.

I’ve lowered previous cars before 1.5-2in and it changed the camber by .5-1 degree. I’ve also driven with -2.4 camber and got 10k miles from a set of hankooks. So far I’ve put about 5k miles on the tires and haven’t noticed any excessive tire wear as there shouldn’t be since it’s within factory alignment.

[303 Spartan]

Like what was said above, my camber was in the green on all 4 corners, before they even started with my alignment. It was the Toe that needed to be re-adjusted.