2014 S4 (current) vs. F80 M3 vs. RS3

[Method]

Good morning!!

Lately I've been getting the itch to swap out the S4 for something with a bit more power. Knowing that this group will be biased, I am curious to hear opinions on any comparisons any of you have done. Here's a little about me:

2014 S4 - Super light mods (Stg 1 APR, springs, wheels, 11385)

• I'm not after anything flashier, but am looking for a ride with more power stock and an absolute monster with a tune and some light work.
• It would continue to be my daily and so needs to be comfortable & quiet, but a monster when it's time to play
• AWD is no longer important with the kid hauler now being a Q7
• I have no plans on really tracking it - just the occasional spirited canyon drive
• I do use my blinkers, and so that could rule out the M3 ;)
• 2 kids (9 yrs) so back seat must be at least moderately functional

A 2014'ish GTR is also on the list, but thinking while it would be a ton of fun, it would make a terrible daily + 2 doors makes it a pain for the nuggets.

Planned mods for either an M3 or RS3 would be tune + some exhaust, wheels, springs and normal turbo intake work. Terrible time to buy a used car (Looking at 2018/2019 cars), but figure it would be offset with the sale of my S4.

Thoughts?

[Ashtonts]

I say make the jump to DP on the S4 if you want more power, and wait until the market calms down to jump platforms. Won't cost you much to get there and it was a super satisfying upgrade when I jumped there from Stage 1. Although now I'm itching for a ported blower and auxiliary fuel injection; the rabbit hole never ends

[Method]

Ha - I went down that same thought rabbit hole. It's a cheap'ish upgrade (just a few k for tune, pulley and supporting mods), but starts to introduce some issues I'm not super excited about longer term. (Cat failure, potential DSG clutch issues)

I should also note that I'm on the hunt for some other newer things like Apple Carplay, virtual cockpit, etc.

One big minus on the RS3 is no power seats. What the hell?? That said, I'm really the only one that ever would drive it, so doesn't really matter that much?

[BlackJon]

I say make the jump to DP on the S4 if you want more power, and wait until the market calms down to jump platforms. Won't cost you much to get there and it was a super satisfying upgrade when I jumped there from Stage 1. Although now I'm itching for a ported blower and auxiliary fuel injection; the rabbit hole never ends

Hey whats up Ashtonts.. I was trying to DM you but it wasn't working and this don't relate to this topic. I have a 2013 S4 6MT running IE E40 Throttle body tune with crackles with a stage 3 clutch and flywheel but I don't know when I should change my transmission fluids or how often

Drive It Like You Stole It

[sepheroth86]

I say make the jump to DP on the S4 if you want more power, and wait until the market calms down to jump platforms. Won't cost you much to get there and it was a super satisfying upgrade when I jumped there from Stage 1. Although now I'm itching for a ported blower and auxiliary fuel injection; the rabbit hole never ends

Ha - I went down that same thought rabbit hole. It's a cheap'ish upgrade (just a few k for tune, pulley and supporting mods), but starts to introduce some issues I'm not super excited about longer term. (Cat failure, potential DSG clutch issues)

I should also note that I'm on the hunt for some other newer things like Apple Carplay, virtual cockpit, etc.

One big minus on the RS3 is no power seats. What the hell?? That said, I'm really the only one that ever would drive it, so doesn't really matter that much?

Go big single pulley. I would recommend doing the crank vs the blower pulley.

Do a 187 or 189 on the bottom, an intake, $200 for the APR stage 2 and have fun.

Did you do a TCU tune? If not, you will want that as well. Should get your car into the 11's. My big A6 is knocking on 11's with similar modifications.

[Solarsuplex]

I'm in a very similar scenario to you, however I dont have the need for the back seat space so its purely about power, comfort, and aesthetics. I've had my heart set on an f80 for quite some time, though the way they have been holding their value, an RS3 might actually be the more economical. My history with a majorly stanced B7 and now a typical stage 2 B8 has left me looking for a car that looks great stock and makes good power. I've fallen out of love with the B8 aesthetics now that i've come to the harsh truth that no wheels truly do it for me on this platform without air ride.

Here are a few of my notes about either that i try to use when im comparing the two. Lets take price out of the equation here.

M3:
Stock engine is plenty of power
Clear Aesthetic winner
Size
Stock suspension is already fairly low, eliminating the instant need for springs or coilovers
Basically impossible to make them sound good with standard exhaust modifications. This would be the first car i'd probably just do downpipes on and leave the rest of the exhaust stock with the exception of tips for aesthetics.


RS3:
Stock engine is 'zippy' and stage 1 tune puts you exactly where you want to be.
Reliability seems to be slightly higher than the f80
Interior quality is higher than BMW, though the fact this is a dressed up A3 becomes apparent once you get past the steering wheel, virtual cockpit, and diamond stitch seats.
Virtual cockpit is 'cool' and something i certainly want if i were moving platforms, but from those that have it they say its really just another novelty they dont use all that much.
for me - Familiarity with Audi platform. I've had a B7, B8 and worked on plenty of other models so i understand the clips, sensors, part vendors, and enjoy the community.


That said. I wish i could go spend a day driving each, and then driving them again with a stage 1 tune, intake, and other quality of life mods i'd likely do.
I would also consider your driving.. I don't commute to work anymore, so my driving is more so around my area and i'm not often taking my current car over 50mph. The F80 has a lot of top end power while the RS3 has been noted as a bit more nimble and fun in the lower RPM and speeds. Though I wouldn't let that really impact my decision because we all know that a WOT pull onto the freeway is worth 1000 smiles.

[bmoreS4]

IMO:

RS3 was too small

I loved by B8.5 - Single Pulley Stage 2 I ran 11.8 and a 3.67 0-60

I just bought a 2020 SQ5 to replace by B8.5 because I wanted something bigger but still fun.

My B8.5 was an amazing car I very much enjoyed driving for 6 years.

[sacandagaD]

OP - I know you stated that you have a Q7 and don't need AWD, but have you driven a Macan Turbo? Our GTS is way more fun to drive than my S4, and if my wife would let me tune it, lol, it would be faster.

[Ashtonts]

Hey whats up Ashtonts.. I was trying to DM you but it wasn't working and this don't relate to this topic. I have a 2013 S4 6MT running IE E40 Throttle body tune with crackles with a stage 3 clutch and flywheel but I don't know when I should change my transmission fluids or how often

Drive It Like You Stole It

Sorry man I don't know anything about trans fluids. That's on my to-do list for when I change my clutch, but I haven't started any research on it

[Method]

Thanks everyone thus far for your responses.

RE going SP or DP on the S4, the power isn't the entire reason why I'm getting the itch for something new. As much as I love the B8.5, the platform is starting to show it's age a bit. I don't have a ton of miles on it (66k), but it's getting to the point where I personally prefer to have something a little newer. Going SP/DP also introduces some reliability issues that will cause headaches I'm not looking to deal with.

My older brother has a tuned F80 M3 up in Seattle that I'll spend a bit of time with, so really looking forward to getting some seat time there. The M3's definitely have held their value, and it seems are priced about the same as an RS3. I'll admit, I do currently lean towards an RS3 for the following reasons:

- I LOVE Audi's ability to create incredible sleepers. The RS3 is much more understated than the aggressive looks on the M3. It's fun the fly under the radar a bit vs the immediately recognizable bimmer.
- I don't commute to work, and so most of my driving is fun local stuff, or going to kids games/practices etc. I also don't drive like a maniac everywhere, so the every day practicality is huge
- The sound of that turbo i5. Dear lord do the RS3's sound amazing.

Reasons I love the M3

- Incredible styling, but annoying in that they stand out quite a bit where I live
- That top end power with a tune is just bonkers
- Bigger back seats than the RS3

Really I just need to get some seat time in & I think that will help solve the question - particularly when I get back in the S4 to drive home.

[sepheroth86]

3.0t are still quite reliable at SP levels. Mine has over 160k on it.

[bmoreS4]

3.0t are still quite reliable at SP levels. Mine has over 160k on it.

This, I sold mine @ 125k miles, never had an issue with it.

[wangshuo1989]

Why not an RS7? V8 sounds wonderful and back seats are actually usable.

[Method]

Why not an RS7? V8 sounds wonderful and back seats are actually usable.

Wonderful cars, but very different from what I'm looking for. I'm after something fun & nimble vs a GT cruiser.

[Lbsigman]

Have you looked at an M2? I sold my 2016 in February and made the switch to a M2 and it’s a night and day difference. I can elaborate if you want.

[BucDan]

3.0t are still quite reliable at SP levels. Mine has over 160k on it.

Which single pulley is preferred?

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[blackfunk]

Crank.

[Hamsteak]

Ha - I went down that same thought rabbit hole. It's a cheap'ish upgrade (just a few k for tune, pulley and supporting mods), but starts to introduce some issues I'm not super excited about longer term. (Cat failure, potential DSG clutch issues)

I should also note that I'm on the hunt for some other newer things like Apple Carplay, virtual cockpit, etc.

One big minus on the RS3 is no power seats. What the hell?? That said, I'm really the only one that ever would drive it, so doesn't really matter that much?

It all depends how much love you got for the car brother, if you crave more speed and love your car you'll make it faster and keep it. If you want modern features like car play the aftermarket offers an adaption for that too.

Everyone is so paranoid about issue this, failure that, but even if your engine and transmission were to blow up right now, it would be cheaper to buy a replacement compared to a 2-4 year old m3 or rs3. And I know browsing forums and s4 pages hearing about how this thing failed today and how this other thing failed tomorrow will make a person hold back on purchasing more mods for the car, a lot of those posts are from people with 2012 and before s4's with higher mileage (not all of them obviously), and I guarantee within these next few years to come the rs3 and m3 forums will be filled these posts too, because cars are too damn complex to stay in one piece forever; somethings gonna give out eventually. I got a drag strip buddy with a stage 1 rs3 with 20000 miles on the clock that just locked his motor because all of his coolant decided to replace his need for fuel in the span of 11.083 seconds.

The way you drive your car is going to make a big difference on whether some of these issues will even occur (DSG Issues) or prolong the time it takes something to fail (Cat Failure)

The point I'm trying to make is, you can go a lot further with your car and get the speed and some of the modern features new cars have. It just depends how much work your willing to put into it to make that happen and if and when something breaks on you, whether you have the love for your car to either take it to a shop or jack it up yourself and fix it.

[Ashtonts]

^ kind of agree with this. I’d throw an RSNav head unit in there to get CarPlay & a more modern interior feel, and slap on a Stage 2 SP tune and wait for the market to cool down before buying something newer.

[Method]

Have you looked at an M2? I sold my 2016 in February and made the switch to a M2 and it’s a night and day difference. I can elaborate if you want.

The M2's are wonderful cars, though I'm really after something with 4 doors. (Kiddos)

[Method]

It all depends how much love you got for the car brother, if you crave more speed and love your car you'll make it faster and keep it. If you want modern features like car play the aftermarket offers an adaption for that too.

Everyone is so paranoid about issue this, failure that, but even if your engine and transmission were to blow up right now, it would be cheaper to buy a replacement compared to a 2-4 year old m3 or rs3. And I know browsing forums and s4 pages hearing about how this thing failed today and how this other thing failed tomorrow will make a person hold back on purchasing more mods for the car, a lot of those posts are from people with 2012 and before s4's with higher mileage (not all of them obviously), and I guarantee within these next few years to come the rs3 and m3 forums will be filled these posts too, because cars are too damn complex to stay in one piece forever; somethings gonna give out eventually. I got a drag strip buddy with a stage 1 rs3 with 20000 miles on the clock that just locked his motor because all of his coolant decided to replace his need for fuel in the span of 11.083 seconds.

The way you drive your car is going to make a big difference on whether some of these issues will even occur (DSG Issues) or prolong the time it takes something to fail (Cat Failure)

The point I'm trying to make is, you can go a lot further with your car and get the speed and some of the modern features new cars have. It just depends how much work your willing to put into it to make that happen and if and when something breaks on you, whether you have the love for your car to either take it to a shop or jack it up yourself and fix it.

Truly excellent points. Fortunately for me, I'm in no rush & the market is insane.

I also prefer to do my own work on it - My main concern with the upgrades is the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' line of thought here. It's been incredible so far - tough to risk that by messing with it.

I am tempted to just go Stg 2 SP and call it a day till the market chills.

[sepheroth86]

I am tempted to just go Stg 2 SP and call it a day till the market chills.

187 or 189 on the crank + DSG flash = happy times.

The RSnav unit seems to really modernize these cars, also.

[Solarsuplex]

187 or 189 on the crank + DSG flash = happy times.

The RSnav unit seems to really modernize these cars, also.

The problem is that is $2500 in mods that could just go towards a new vehicle. not to mention once you hit that point you start buying the mods that are a really not a great improvement to the vehicle. After you step into the higher pulley ratios you look at cooling, then exhaust, now your cats are melting so you rethink exhaust. Its just a standard cycle to eventually end up with a pretty quick, but still older bodystyle. Thats my thoughts at least. I'm of the opinion now that i'd rather take a fast car and throw a few things on it to make it faster rather than push any platform near the limit.

[sepheroth86]

The problem is that is $2500 in mods that could just go towards a new vehicle. not to mention once you hit that point you start buying the mods that are a really not a great improvement to the vehicle. After you step into the higher pulley ratios you look at cooling, then exhaust, now your cats are melting so you rethink exhaust. Its just a standard cycle to eventually end up with a pretty quick, but still older bodystyle. Thats my thoughts at least. I'm of the opinion now that i'd rather take a fast car and throw a few things on it to make it faster rather than push any platform near the limit.

Simple single pulley setup like that should make the car quite fast without much additional stress on the rest of the car (cats, etc). Cooling is not needed, only recommended at single pulley levels. My personal car has been Stage2 SP for a year now and 10,000-15,000 miles. Car has 160k on it. No signs of cat or any other issues from the bump in power.

Since OP is already APR stg1, he needs a $250 pulley and $150 tune upgrade. RSNav is $600 ($550 if using a stock size screen). APR TCU tune is $500. So for $1200-1500 he can be in the 11's with the modernized MMI.

It is always more cost effective to run a paid off car vs buying new.

[Solarsuplex]

You have the A6 version of my current S4, so we're experiencing the same power. My cats have sign of wear and something i need to think about in the future. Of course there is the cost effectiveness, but at the end of the day, when you get the itch for something new, a new MMI experience wont hold it away for long.

[Corydms7]

Sell the kids... problem solved....

[Method]

Another line of thought here is that 2k in mods to hold off the RS3/M3 love bug for a year till the market relaxes would be more than offset when saving $$ from buying a new car now vs a year from now. (Assuming the market does chill) 2018/2019 RS3's are going for 60k right now which is nuts.

The RSNAV upgrades - does this include carplay? Is there a specific vendor I should be taking a look at?

Sell the kids... problem solved....

Depending on the day, I am certainly tempted! Will sell to the lowest bidder.

[Ashtonts]

Another line of thought here is that 2k in mods to hold off the RS3/M3 love bug for a year till the market relaxes would be more than offset when saving $$ from buying a new car now vs a year from now. (Assuming the market does chill) 2018/2019 RS3's are going for 60k right now which is nuts.

The RSNAV upgrades - does this include carplay? Is there a specific vendor I should be taking a look at?

My thoughts exactly on this when thinking about your situation. The used car market is supposedly up some 25-30% right now, so $2k is a relatively small amount when you're looking at cars in that price range.

As far as the RSNav, here's the product that most people are running on these cars. It has wireless CarPlay and Android Auto built into the unit.

[sepheroth86]

My thoughts exactly on this when thinking about your situation. The used car market is supposedly up some 25-30% right now, so $2k is a relatively small amount when you're looking at cars in that price range.

As far as the RSNav, here's the product that most people are running on these cars. It has wireless CarPlay and Android Auto built into the unit.

RSNav also offers one with a 12" screen for the same price right now, according to their website.

[Method]

My thoughts exactly on this when thinking about your situation. The used car market is supposedly up some 25-30% right now, so $2k is a relatively small amount when you're looking at cars in that price range.

As far as the RSNav, here's the product that most people are running on these cars. It has wireless CarPlay and Android Auto built into the unit.

Awesome, thank you! No carplay has gotten to be quite annoying.

As much as I'd love to throw money at a new (to me) car, I can't justify paying near MSRP for a 2-3yr old ride.

[coop3422]

I've never bought new, so my judgement is skewed. But the used market is just silly right now. Granted I've only had my S4 for about a year, so while I'm always "looking" at other cars, I'm not actually considering it. But unless I hated it, I'd keep it and do some small mods and wait for the market to even out.

As for power, I'm stage 2 SP and the car has been most of it's live, since 2016. Stock cats, no issues, runs like a top outside of needing a new AC compressor. And honestly, I have no desire for more power. I can barely use what it has already without excessively speeding. Every car I've had before, I've wanted more power. Stage 2 SP in 6MT form is enough for me.

As for M3 vs RS3, I'd have to drive them. I find BMW interiors to be cheap, I checked a 435i before I bought my previous 2015 A6, and I didn't even bother driving it. And I've always preferred smaller/lighter cars, hence selling the A6 for an S4 (that and the 6MT), so I get that. I'd likely go with the RS3 unless driving the 2 was drastically different.

[weave]

I test drove the RS3 coming from a SC car, turbo lag is real, dash plastic feels cheap, back seat is very small, with baby seat facing foward installed, passenger seat is almost all the way to the front. As much as I'd like to love it, it feels very small even in the driver seat, feel stuck between the roof and the side window/door, very narrow compared to S4. Suspension felt confortable and nimble car, more than my B8.5 on coilovers with R-say. Engine sounds like heaven and power train overall is a amazing. Alcantara seems to be destroyed on most pre-owned cars ive came across on the steering. The asking price right now in my area is very high, I'd wait a little longer, also look at the M340i 2020 + with B58 engine, maybe C43 wagon are quite the package as well.

[Flint]

My thoughts exactly on this when thinking about your situation. The used car market is supposedly up some 25-30% right now, so $2k is a relatively small amount when you're looking at cars in that price range.

As far as the RSNav, here's the product that most people are running on these cars. It has wireless CarPlay and Android Auto built into the unit.

Nice I have been thinking about RSNav as well. Would you rate the installation as challenging?

[5moremins]

I put the Rsnav standalone in my b8.5 soon after I got it and absolutely love it. It keeps the stock screen and controls but add wireless android auto/carplay. Hop in the car, phone automatically connects and launches into AA while it's still in pocket; it's honestly wonderful. Install wasn't too bad either.

[Ashtonts]

Nice I have been thinking about RSNav as well. Would you rate the installation as challenging?

I haven’t done it personally but based on the install videos I’ve seen on YouTube, it looks pretty doable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Method]

Thanks all for the advice. RS3 prices now are absolutely insane, and so waiting for the 2022 model year to come out. Local dealer mentioned Jan-Feb they should have more info and start accepting orders. Time to tide me over for a bit so...

The APR 187mm crank pulley came in yesterday along with the new belt. I'll be installing on Monday with the APR TCU/ECU Stg 2 SP tunes going in on Tuesday. Aside from service position and long triple square bits, any words of advice for the install? Looks pretty straightforward. I should note that I plan on adding the MercHX once those start coming back in stock.

[wrxkyle]

Ha - I went down that same thought rabbit hole. It's a cheap'ish upgrade (just a few k for tune, pulley and supporting mods), but starts to introduce some issues I'm not super excited about longer term. (Cat failure, potential DSG clutch issues)

I should also note that I'm on the hunt for some other newer things like Apple Carplay, virtual cockpit, etc.

One big minus on the RS3 is no power seats. What the hell?? That said, I'm really the only one that ever would drive it, so doesn't really matter that much?

couldn't care less about power seats, manual seats are faster to adjust anyway, and it's not like you are adjusting seats every day.
now if you have a tiny wife and are a big dude sharing the same car often then yes it's nice to have the two keys and seat auto adjust memory. not because it's powered, but because it's automatic.

rs3 has that massive tuning potential, and has a bit more lag than some stock turbo cars these days but that's in exchange for being able to hit high 9's stock turbo so that's a reasonable tradeoff.

i would as others suggest though go dual pully and enjoy the s4 for another year or two until prices normalize (and possibly crash a little harder than normal, depending on inflation)

[Method]

Thanks man. Installed the pulley today, and headed to the shop for the ECU/TCU tunes tomorrow. Curious to see how it compares to Stage 1.

[SashaG]

187 or 189 on the crank + DSG flash = happy times.

The RSnav unit seems to really modernize these cars, also.

This 100% ... the RSNAV makes the car feel totally different.

[Method]

Quick update - Went and test drove a Model 3 AWD with performance pack. VERY different to drive.

Pros:
- Incredible technology in the car
- Roomy, comfortable interior
- Stupidly, abusrdly fast. Like ridiculously fast. You mash the throttle and off you go - no input lag at all

Cons:
- Interior quality is not up to par with german counterparts, regardless of it's spartan design
- The test drive car already had an interior rattle
- Boring exterior looks
- Stupidly fast, but lacks any sort of emotion or feedback.

I walked away from the experience thinking "this is an amazing commuter, and a terrible toy".

Back to looking at new S4's, RS3's and M3's.