3.0 TFSI version’s Differences

[James115]

Hello, I am looking for an Audi A5/S5 3.0 TFSI,
I would like to know the differences between the A5 and S5 version of the engine. I’ am planning to tune the engine, is it possible to reach the same power with the 2 version? What are the differences between the engine?
I also have seen that the new CREC is installed also on both the car, I have seen many pictures of the A5 with the new cover. Can somebody explain? Thanks

[allroad2go]

Both engines can be tuned to same output. S5 starts with inherently more to differentiate. Trans are the same. S will have different interior, suspension, potentially brakes.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Smac770]

EA837 3.0T for EU5/5+ emissions in the B8.5, running SIMOS 8:
CGWC = 245kW
CMUA = 200kW

EA837evo 3.0T for EU6/6+ emissions in the B8.5, running SIMOS 16:
CREC = 245kW
CRED = 200kW

As for what are the physical differences between the 245kW and 200kW versions beyond the ECM tune? Only thing I know offhand is the exhaust manifolds are different between CGWC and CMUA, but they are not different between the CREC and CRED. Cooling system robustness will be different between 245kW and 200kW.

If you want to read about EA837evo changes, search for Audi SSP 624.

[S5boxster]

(B8.5 S5 has a 3.0L v6 supercharged 6cylinder)
(B8 & B8.5 A5 comes with 2.0L turbo 4cylinder)
(B8 A5 couple years had a 3.2L v6 naturally aspirated 6 cylinder)
(B8 S5 has 4.2L v8 naturally aspirated 8 cylinder)

All info is based on Audi NA, if ur outside North America your configurations will be different.

B8.5 S5 gets dsg 7spd
A5 gets either zf 6spd or zf 8spd

b8 and b8.5 s4 s5 gets the same front calipers as A4,A5 but bigger rotor size and they are single piston which are terrible, new b9 S models gets new 4 or 6 piston calipers
Hopefully this helps
Since links to apr on engine tuneability
https://www.goapr.com/products/softw...0T-EA837-SIM85


https://www.goapr.com/products/softw...-20T-EA888-2-L

[James115]

From the document Ssp 624 I read
Key modifications compared to the third-generation 3.0l V6 TFSI engine:
Reference
• Cast-iron cylinder liners
• Deactivable supercharger (Roots blower)
• Multipoint injection added
• Exhaust-side camshaft adjustment added
• Compliance with exhaust emission standard EU 6 W • Repositioning of the motor oil cooler (switchable)
to the back of the engine
• Chain drive with different chain routing
• Positive crankcase ventilation on one cylinder bank only • A continuous design hood
The following adaptions were made:
• Piston shape
• Oil pan and rear engine cover (sealing flange)
• Crankshaft with hollow-bored crank pin
• Coolant pump with modified pump gear ("potted")
• Terophon ↗ coated timing chain covers
• Package of modifications to reduce friction and weight
So enough differences, seems that the CREC, is enough improved

[Dippy]

FYI my 2015 UK spec CREC S5 has been stage 2 (480PS/585Nm) for over 4 years and I have had no engine/transmission problems.

[James115]

I am contacting many S5 owners, with the CGWC, and they say that have high oil consumption, around 1kg for 1.200 km.
I say to check the PCV, but honestly I think that is the engine itself, I mean the cylinder.
This can explain why they changed the cylinder, in the CHWC are in Alusil, in the CREC in cast iron.
What is the medium oil consumption of your cars?

[Smac770]

SSP 624 says the EA837 evo block is closed-deck aluminum-silicon alloy, just like the EA837. But it has "Thin-wall cylinder liners made from cast iron with nodular graphite with a wall thickness of 1 mm (press-fit)".

For the piston changes of the EA837 evo, we note:
• Graphite coating
• Required for cast iron cylinder races
• Reduction in friction
• Improved limp-home performance

So why did Audi change it? For the only reason Audi changes anything, lower regulatory bills (emissions/efficiency).

Just like why CRE has a different supercharger pulley system: "Many details of the air supply and charging system were revised. Here, the designers saw another possibility for improving the engine's fuel economy."

Any side benefit of power handling and longevity to the tuning owner is coincidental.

[hahnmgh63]

2013 CGXC, 58k, bought it from Copart with front end damage. Did the RS5 look front conversion and 034 Motorsport Stg2 w/X-pipe resonator delete. No oil consumption on this motor.

[James115]

2013 CGXC, 58k, bought it from Copart with front end damage. Did the RS5 look front conversion and 034 Motorsport Stg2 w/X-pipe resonator delete. No oil consumption on this motor.

CGXC?

[Smac770]

CGXC is the US emissions version of CGWC.

[James115]

So CGWC Alusil cylinder, CREC sleeve cylinder cast iron, new EA 839 same engine, again Alusil with plasma spry coating iron on the cylinder wall.

[James115]

SSP 624 says the EA837 evo block is closed-deck aluminum-silicon alloy, just like the EA837. But it has "Thin-wall cylinder liners made from cast iron with nodular graphite with a wall thickness of 1 mm (press-fit)".

For the piston changes of the EA837 evo, we note:
• Graphite coating
• Required for cast iron cylinder races
• Reduction in friction
• Improved limp-home performance

So why did Audi change it? For the only reason Audi changes anything, lower regulatory bills (emissions/efficiency).

Just like why CRE has a different supercharger pulley system: "Many details of the air supply and charging system were revised. Here, the designers saw another possibility for improving the engine's fuel economy."

Any side benefit of power handling and longevity to the tuning owner is coincidental.

Yes, yes, but I was thinking about the oil consumption, the hardness of the cylinder wall.
From other perspective I read of many BMW engine faults because of the cylinders sleeve

[James115]

Hello, do you think i can fit this in my 2012 A6 TFSI? https://www.ebay.it/itm/265509940690

[hahnmgh63]

The last generation of the 3.0t (Supercharged) engine like the CREC you listed above have quite a few changes as you know from the previous generation. I know the Supercharger is not interchangeable. It is more than just a magnetic clutch at the front, the Diverter at the rear is different. At the least you would need the complete engine harness and ECU to control that clutch controlled Supercharger. Who know how many other sensors may be different. A new and different ECU in the car may be more than just an immobilizer coding issues. I would think someone on one of the forums may have an answer if the engine, with harness and ECU, can be plugged relatively easy into an earlier car.

[Smac770]

The CRE engine is a EA837 evo engine, very modified compared to prior EA837 3.0T engines. And it's more modified for EU than for US. EU CRE has both direct and port injection, etc.

If you want to swap to a CRE, sure it can be made to work. But you'll be swapping all the supporting components like the ECM and such as well. Basically a full dissimilar engine swap process.

[Dippy]

IIRC the SIMOS 16 has a number of digital (SENT) sensors. If these go beyond those fitted to that used engine then they will need to be replaced too.