Pull software from ECU and make changes myself?

[Janse07]

Haven't been active for quite some time now. Long story short.

Had an RS4. Got rid of it. Had an A4 B8. Missed my RS4. Got rid of the B8. Got myself a RS4 again.

So. I'm doing some work on it right now. As we speak I'm dealing with a downpipe upgrade to a Wagner downpipe kit. The car is already fitted with a Milltek catback exhaust. But one of the downpipes had a nasty hole in the flexi bend part, which made the car sound so damn awful.
But I can't remember it being so difficult. I did the exact same job on my previous RS4, but it seems like there is much less space this time.
I am thinking of removing the SAI pump, to give myself some more workspace.

Is it possible to pull the software from the ECU, remove the SAI pump check in the software, then write it back to the ECU myself? I have a Ross-Tech VagCom cable. But have never done something like this before. Can it be done without going to a tuner? Because I like the software as it is now. I'm told it is a MTM tune, but I'm not certain.

I did a little bit of googling, and found that it possible to pull out the software with a program NefMoto. I also found out that it is possible to use a program called TunerPro, to make changes to the software.

So basically, I want to keep my MTM software, but code out the SAI pump, and maybe the secondary O2 sensors as well. As the new downpipes are 100cpi downpipes, and would likely(?) throw a code.

Is it possible, for an amateur to do this? Anybody else done something like this themselfes?

Thanks a bunch.

-Norway

[bassist169]

Possible, yes. The question is how much time do you want to invest in it? How comfortable are you with changing parameters in the coding? How much is your time worth lol? Modifying things using Nefmoto and Tunerpro is a whole different beast than changing things in Vag-com!

Do you know if your MTM was a chip tune? I have an MTM tuned ECU and I know that’s how they were done in the beginning but I don’t know if they ever flash tuned them... that being said, I can tell you that my chipped MTM ECU was not security protected at all and I was able to pull the tuned files from it and read them. I was NOT able to do this with ECUs tuned by other companies!

I considered doing something similar and develop my own swappable tune. I invested a WHOLE lot of time trying to understand the ins and outs of it all. If I were just trying to modify a few things or tune an ECU for stage 2+ I think it’s probably worth it and I would’ve felt comfortable changing a few things based on the information available on that site.... but like I said, be ready to invest a whole lot of hours reading through everything on Nefmoto before writing anything to your ECU. It’s very easy to brick an ECU if done incorrectly so if it’s something you want to get into I would invest in a backup ECU to play around with.

In the end, for what I was looking to obtain (Stage 3 with E85 and 93 files) I decided that the programming variables were simply too much for me to tackle myself and I ended up going with a custom tune from Motoza Perfromance. I can’t say enough good things about their customer service! They will develop your tune for your car and improve it a few times based on logs you submit to them.

However, you can always download the Nefmoto software and try to pull the tuned file from your ECU. If you are able, you can download stock ECU files and compare different things. It’s pretty cool and it’s a great way to learn about how everything works in our cars but it is a very deep rabbit hole so just be prepared to be completely overwhelmed when getting started!

I hope this helps some!

[ventt]

I would buy used 2.7BIT ECU (doesn't need to be RS4 specific), pull the software with nefmoto or mpps and s4wiki.com has good information how to do it all.
Even if something goes wrong, you can use your original ecu.

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Secondary_Air_Injection

[Janse07]

Wow, thank you so much for your replies, both of you. Really appreciate it!

Regarding the MTM tune, I would assume that it is flashed. But I have no way of confirming this, as the sale listing from not the previous owner, but the one before that stated the following, "has the most aggressive MTM tune". But I do not know what that even means, did they offer different options of MTM, and I can not confirm it in anyway. But it feels more powerful than my previous RS4, which I myself had to a tuner.
I don't know if tuners leave a "signature", or something that reveals what software there is on an ECU?


So I guess the following sequence is the most correct way to do it, if I want to have a failsafe:

Get a used ECU. Pull my "MTM" software from the current ECU. Find a program that let's me view and edit the file. Make my adjustments. Write that modified ECU tune, to the used ECU, and see what happens?

Anyway. Thanks alot for your replies. And thanks for the S4wiki link. Can't believe I missed that in my own searching. I will have a good look at it.

[CC516]

I dont use my vcds cable for reading and writing, honestly not sure if you can read and write with it but maybe you can. Worst case, buy a k+dcan cable off amazon for 20 bucks that comes with BMW inpa. Thats what i use from when i had an e36 and havent had an issue.

After you have a cable you can use, go download nefmoto flasher, then go on their forums and find an xdf in their definitions section (should just be able to use the s4 one they have on there), download it, load the xdf into tunerpro. This is your definition file that shows you where all the maps are at

Next use nefmoto flasher to pull your .bin file, load and edit it in tunerpro according to what s4wiki says for SAI delete.

Save the SAI deleted .bin as a separate file from your stock one!!!! (Have 2 files Rs4stock.bin, then rs4saidelete.bin) That way you can always have the stock bin if you brick your ecu or need to revert back.

Next download me7check and me7sum off nefmoto. Run the bin thru me7check using the cmd prompt to verify the checksum is good to go. if its not then run the file thru me7sum and it will correct it.

Flash the corrected file back onto your ecu and youre good. Also hook a jumper box up to your battery before you write to the ecu to eliminate any possibility of the car dying while flashing and bricking your ecu. if you do brick it, really not a big deal. Kind of easy to fix. If that happens, message me. Well skin that cat when we get there lol

Pretty much just walked you thru it barney style there. If you have any doubts in any of those steps, i highly suggest finding someone to do it for you to avoid messing anything up. Nefmoto is really the place to learn about all this though. Im just bored so figured id type this out and help you or anyone trying to do this in the future so no one messes their shit up. Its not hard, just have to have the right programs, cable and files. Best of luck :)


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[bassist169]

^ what CC516 said lol!

It’s super easy to figure out if the MTM tune was a chip or flash! You can open up the box and look for the chip. I’ve included the link to a picture I took of mine. https://www.audizine.com/forum/attac...3&d=1617172831

But if you are going to buy a separate ECU to use anyway it is kind of a moot point...since reading the file from a chipped or flashed ECU is exactly the same.

I think I may have misunderstood what you were trying to do initially. If you are just trying to delete the SAI or do other minor things (deleting secondary 02 sensors, swapping from Bosch to Hitachi MAF sensors etc) then the S4 wiki, along with the above instructions, is really all you need to dive into!

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[Janse07]

Hi again guys

So I've successfully read the ecu, and saved the flash that's on there.
Did the Me7check, and no errors found, so that's good I suppose.

I've installed TunerPro, and tried to find some xdf files to match my "box" (which I'm not quuuite sure what means), and went with an M-box xdf file. Seems to be the one many people uses.
But holy cow. I know I know, this IS complex, and also this is new to me. But I really don't understand what I'm looking at. Haha.
By now you guys are probably thinking, what the hell is this guy doing, if he doesn't understands what's on his screen in front of him. And well yeah, I guess you could say that. But I'm trying to learn. This was just an idea that popped into my head, when I was in bed. Maybe I can get rid of some stuff, myself? That's why this all started.

Because, my post-o2 sensor is of course siezed. Like welded on there. That's one reason.
And the reason behind the SAI delete, was to get rid of excess stuff. To make it kind of "easier" to work with.

But I'll sign up on the NefMoto forums, and try to learn as much as I can. Pretty happy though, that I got to save out my tune. That's kind of cool.

I'm reading some sections of the s4wiki-tuning page, over and over again, but I just can't wrap my head around it.

Does the xdr file, directly affect the changes I make to the actual .bin file? 'Cause in one xdr file, I couldn't find ESKONF listed at all. In another xdr file I did, but as far as I could understand, some other stuff was changed too, but I don't know if that will affect my .bin file.
Sorry for being dumb about this. I'll try to read and learn some more ahead.

And yes. The main thing I was going for, was SAI-delete, and post-o2 sensors delete. To the point that I could actually unplug the harness, without getting any fault codes.

Any help would still be highly appreaciated, and I really do appreaciate all your help to this point! Thanks guys :)

Best regards

[armageddon-]

Rs4 will be either F or K box, Q if in Japan

[dozer103]

Think of it this way - the .xdf is like a road map of where the parameters are in your .bin file (the programming information in your ECU or "box" - typically identified by the part number on the ECU). In order to modify that file, you need to know what you want to modify (like ESKONF), where it is located in the .bin file (the address you will find the hex code for that function), and what the new values are for that definition. The idea is to find an .xdf (roadmap) that is as complete as possible for your .bin file (as many of the values like ESKONF located and labeled as you can) and load that into TunerPro to help you navigate around your file that you're tuning. I have a job and a family, and spent over a year reading NefMoto and learning how to modify the Bosch ME hex file in order to write myself a stage 2 tune. You've already made it far enough that I'm guessing you'll be successful if you keep at it.

Two things...never modify your original ECU if you can avoid it. Clone another ECU to modify, that way if something goes wrong you can plug your original ECU back in and drive the car. Also be aware that most tuners encrypt the tune they flash to your ECU, meaning they change the addresses where the various files are located to protect (like copyright) their work. All good that you pulled the tuned file, but some parameters in the MTM file you pulled might not be where an .xdf for the ECU on your car says they should be. Good luck!

[bassist169]

There are a bunch of XDF files that you can look at. Since you are only looking to change one or two things just find the one that has the areas listed that you need. I’ve noticed quite a few XDF files that members posted with their tune or modifications only include the areas regarding performance- fueling, boost etc. The search tool in tuner pro is probably the feature I use the most. I would personally just find the XDF with the most parameters listed and then you can delete what you don’t need to clean it up and save the XDF with another name. Removing items from the XDF doesn’t effect the BIN file at all, only the parameters you are able to see in that BIN file.

[Janse07]

Hi again guys!

dozer103, thank you for the roadmap explaination, that actually helped me out alot to understand how the XDR works with the .bin file. Thank you!

bassist169, okey. Thank you as well. So my guess is that I should try to find a XDR that is able to locate the ESKONF map, within my .bin file, is that the correct way to understand it? Because, from what I understand. I can disable for example the SAI pump in a couple of multiple ways. But if I understand this correctly, to code out the SAI pump, entirely - meaning, to the point where I can unplug the connector, and still have no DTC, is to disable it through ESKONF. That is my understanding of it.
If I disable it otherwise, I still will need to have the connector plugged in, ergo, I can't physically remove it from the enginebay.
Is my understanding of this correct?
Because if it is, I am able to locate the parameters or maps, that allows me to disable it the, almost-all-the-way method. But have not found ESKONF in two of the XDR files i tried.

Anyways, thanks a lot guys. Maybe I'm at the point where I should continue my journye on the NefMoto forums?

Thanks for the help! :)

[seanf86]

What part number is your ECU? I've got a K-box rs4 xdf which has ESKONF defined in it that I can email you K+Q RS4 ecus use the same xdf. I found it on nefmoto while experimenting flashing RS4 files on my 2.7t k04 B6. M-box xdf the values are all in the wrong spot.

[dozer103]

That should work. If you look at the code before, through, and after the defined address in the stock .bin file and it matches the MTM tuned file you should be good recoding at that address. If the information on recoding the RS4 file isn't on Nefmoto (which it almost certainly is somewhere), you might try copying the coding from a North American M-box ECU. The M-box was not equipped with secondary air from the factory and would never have had the hardware supported.

[Janse07]

Hi again guys

seanf86, that would be awesome. Because as of now, the way I did it, I downloaded "me7eskonf", and used it with my .bin file because I couldn't find any matching .xdf files to my .bin. So I have tried that way, and ONLY changed the hex for the SAI-pump, so I think nothing bad should happen, if I try to flash the modifed file.

Have not gotten to flash the car yet, because I'm currently doing some work on it as well. Just fitted the new Wagner 100cpi downpipes, but while I'm at that point, with so much removed from my engine bay (yes.. the engine is in the car....... PAIN), I'm trying to fix some other stuff too. I'm pretty sure I have a torn wastegate vacuum line, but I can not for the love of god get to any of them. I just don't understand.
I also need to change my intake temp. sensor (located underneath the intake manifold.) And like, how the HELL am I supposed to get my hand under there? So frustrating at this point, so my motivation has decreased a little, to continue. But I have to, my current everdaycar needs some fixing too. Bah.

Got to change my rear brake light switch located on top of the gearbox, only to find out that my new one, has a different connector than what is on my car. Sure, why not use multiple several plugs for that kind of stuff.

Also having second thoughts about removing the SAI-pump actually. Because the more I got to look at it, it seems to me that it is so many vacuum lines connected together, with different solenoids, and in t-splitters, to work with the N249, and N75 (if I'm not mistaken), that I'm afraid I'll just make everything worse. Haha.
But, I can at least make a new spiderhose with some better hoses than the OEM, while it's out.

I'll check my partnumber for the ECU seanf86. Thank you for that!

[Janse07]

Just came back in from checking my ECU partnumber, seanf86

8D0 907 551 K
(ME 7.1)

Thank you for your patience.

Do you have files that are more fitting than the ones I have tried?
Thanks!

-

[Janse07]

A little update.

I've now finished the downpipe job, removed the postcat o2 sensors, and removed the SAI pump. Still a bit unsure how to do this 100% correctly, regarding the number of hoses that were involved in all of that. I'll just figure it out going forward.

Did not manage to change my air intake temp. sensor, because as far as I can understand, I'll have to remove the intake manifold. And I did not want to do that, and neither did I have a new gasket. But I found that the connector on the far end from the air intake temp. sensor was kind of damaged. To the point where it would maybe not make contact. So I fiddled a little with it, so that I felt confident that it had contact.
Fired up the car. And absolutely NO fault codes. None. Nada!

Which tells me that the SAI pump AND the postcat o2 sensors were already coded out from the start. Hah.

But I would like to thank everyone that left a comment, to try and help me. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much!

[MacDaddy]

This is a wuestion better asked on nefmoto

http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/...shing_Software