034Motorsport Project S4.0T

[034Motorsport]

It's time to pull back the curtain a bit on something we have been up to for the last 6 months.

While we still plan to push the boundaries of the factory 3.0T engine, we feel it's time to push the platform to an entirely new level.

Be on the lookout for an in-depth video series following the progression of swapping a twin-turbo 4.0T Audi V8 into the B8/8.5 chassis, and for the products that'll be coming along with it!

-Nick@034

SED_2530.jpg

---5/12/21 Update---





Dark Red Mica, one of three Audi S4 B8.5s in the United States, and now one of one with a 4.0TT swapped in. 4.0T engine swaps have been done before, however, to take this to the next level, we decided to purchase one of the only Dark Red Mica Audi S4's in the country to create a true one-of-one build. The project, S4.0T will be one of the first B8 chassis cars to dive into the 9's in the 1/4 mile and act as a testbed for potential swap kit products, along with quality aesthetic products which the platform has never seen.

This is not the first time 034Motorsport has embarked down the path of unique engine swaps. From our VR6 turbo swapped B5 A4 with over 1000WHP, or the GTI-RS Mk4 with an 800WHP 2.7T swapped into the trunk, we have gone through the challenges, trials, and struggles of complex engine swaps yielding amazing builds capable of taking part in the pinnacles of motorsport.

Project S4.0T is an homage to these builds that contributed to putting 034Motorsport on the map, and like the builds of the past, will further refine our engineering skills to be put towards the high-quality products we design and make every day.

Be on the lookout for the upcoming build video series on our Youtube channel!

---5/26/21 Update---



In some of our initial teaser photos, you may have noticed that the heart of our project was covered in white powder. Solvent-Based Developer Spray is used in the 3D scanning process to help get the highest possible scan quality. It’s especially useful for scanning transparent, shiny, or dark parts.

In lieu of offering an eventual motor-swap kit for the B8 S4, scanning the 4.0T is an essential part so we can modify the essential mounting brackets in CAD software. The 4.0T and 3.0T share a very similar mounting configuration, which has allowed us to come up with a minimally invasive, bolt-in adapter mount combo making this swap a breeze!

---6/8/21 Update---



After the initial scanning process of both the 4.0T and our chosen B8.5 RS5 subframe, it was discovered that there would need to be an adjustment of the engine brackets (The engine bracket is the piece that bolts onto the engine and motor mount). Without modifying the engine brackets, the engine would not sit straight in the chassis of the S4, causing the transmission to be mounted at a slanted angle.

After mocking the engine up in the engine bay, numerous sessions of measurement collections, and 3D scans, we custom welded & fabricated prototype engine brackets to allow the 4.0T to sit perfectly in the engine bay. Once the mock-up brackets are finalized, they will be designed in CAD and machined out of high-quality Billet Aluminum and will be paired with the existing Billet Motorsport Mount kit for the 3.0T.

---8/9/21 Update---

The 4.0T is in its final resting place and boy, does it look like it is at home in the engine bay of our B8.5 S4. As we will be building this car in various stages, this car will pioneer the development and be the testbed of our Stage 1 ECU tuning for the C7 S6 & S7 4.0t. In accordance with this stage 1 build, the factory 4.0t catalysts from the donor Audi S6 are installed, retaining all factory emissions control.

In order to keep this water-cooled, Twin Turbocharged beast in check, we're employing the 034Motorsport heat exchanger to keep IATs nice and cool. This Heat Exchanger utilizes our unique billet aluminum CNC machined end tanks are set up as dual-pass. The oversized core is 2.2x larger in volume than both the factory B8.5 S4 heat exchanger and C7/7.5 S6 heat exchanger. In line with our goals for a stage 1 build, we will be keeping the factory air-to-water system and later converting it to an air-to-air system when necessary.

[wrxkyle]

same trans or using the rs6/7 trans as well?

[fastboatster]

This is going to be a great content, no doubt! But you probably need to tell that this kind of a swap has been described before, including this forum (10.06 b8 s4) and it probably inspired you to do the same. Moreover, the software mastermind behind that swap whom I met over the online channels is currently helping Oleg aka Ukurish to complete this swap for Jay Bullington aka JXB performance. Anyways, don’t take this as something negative because taking some previously completed swap and turning it into a turnkey product is great, too.

[034Motorsport]

same trans or using the rs6/7 trans as well?

We will be starting with the OEM B8.5 S4 DSG (DL501) and test with that throughout Stage 1, Stage 2, hybrid turbo, and larger power levels. The data we currently have is showing that to be a feasible option for the lower stages, but time will tell how long that will last on higher stages. For the sake of cost-effectiveness, if the transmission in the S4 can be used, we'd rather do that. Still more testing to be done to see at what point the S6/S7 variants of the DL501 need to be considered!

This is going to be a great content, no doubt! But you probably need to tell that this kind of a swap has been described before, including this forum (10.06 b8 s4) and it probably inspired you to do the same. Moreover, the software mastermind behind that swap whom I met over the online channels is currently helping Oleg aka Ukurish to complete this swap for Jay Bullington aka JXB performance. Anyways, don’t take this as something negative because taking some previously completed swap and turning it into a turnkey product is great, too.

Of course, it is widely known and published that this swap has been done before on this chassis (primarily in a one-off fashion). We plan to forge our own path and make this a repeatable and "simple" swap that others can embark on moving forward as well, all while developing and pushing both the B8 chassis and the 4.0TT engine. From hardware and software, we've been tackling it internally with our world-class software and hardware engineering teams. The car will see many phases throughout its build, and we're excited to take you all along for the ride!

-Nick@034

[Jugghead51]

The fact that one and a half people have did/doing this doesn’t make me any less excited. Great job to them! Great job to 034 Motorsports! Have day dreamed about this swap way more than once. Love it!


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[avantagg]

Subscribed! Can’t wait to see the progress guys.

[Austin88]

Great to see 034 invested in B8 S4 platform! Lots of people looking to get more powah

[ALAN12186]

make it a 6mt!

[hunter_killer]

I love it guys! I can’t wait to see how these 4.0T swaps unravel as they become more popular and the swap kits come out. It’ll be a great time for this platform (it’s going to make it tough to decide which route to go down the road although; built stage 3 3.0 or stage 2+ 4.0)


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[034Motorsport]

The fact that one and a half people have did/doing this doesn’t make me any less excited. Great job to them! Great job to 034 Motorsports! Have day dreamed about this swap way more than once. Love it!
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Thank you! We are confident we can bring the unique 034Motorsport flair to the swap, and provide customers a pathway to cleanly and reliably swap to the 4.0T. It'll be an exciting path for all of us!

Subscribed! Can’t wait to see the progress guys.

We'll be sure to keep this thread updated with content as we move along in the build!

Great to see 034 invested in B8 S4 platform! Lots of people looking to get more powah

There should certainly be some mo powah baby!

make it a 6mt!

This car will be using the OEM B8.5 S4 DL501 to start, but we may move to the S6 DL501 in the future for the higher power stages of the build. Though there's no reason it couldn't be done with a manual!

I love it guys! I can’t wait to see how these 4.0T swaps unravel as they become more popular and the swap kits come out. It’ll be a great time for this platform (it’s going to make it tough to decide which route to go down the road although; built stage 3 3.0 or stage 2+ 4.0)
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We can't wait either! We're still heavily invested in the Supercharged 3.0T engine and feel its a great option for high performance and a unique driving characteristic (gotta love superchargers!). The 4.0T will be an awesome evolution for the platform beyond the 3.0T and should be great for folks chasing higher and higher horsepower.

-Nick@034

[f1torrents]

If it's not a 6MT, I'm not interested...

[Morritse]

Also curious why you're not going the 6mt route. Doesn't this car already have a built manual? Do you guys just want to learn how to make the 4.0tt work with a DSG?

I feel like without the manual trans it's kinda like a slightly smaller s6. If oleg started snapping gears on like 600lb ft I think the same thing will happen to you guys :/

[034Motorsport]

Also curious why you're not going the 6mt route. Doesn't this car already have a built manual? Do you guys just want to learn how to make the 4.0tt work with a DSG?

I feel like without the manual trans it's kinda like a slightly smaller s6. If oleg started snapping gears on like 600lb ft I think the same thing will happen to you guys :/

This car did not have a transmission when we first purchased it.

While a manual would be quite fun, for the power and usage we will eventually be reaching, we feel the DSG is the right match. Our engineers haven't decided on this ad hawk. Strength calculations and reports were addressed right from the start of the build, and we feel that the mechanics of the S4 DL501 should withstand a fair bit of abuse and torque. There is not enough concrete data/evidence outside of 2 reported instances of DSG gearing failures to definitively say at what point the S4 DSG will not last, so we aim to conduct legitimate scientific testing and analysis to find that limit. Where we go from there is TBD (S6 variant DL501, Manual, ZF8, we'll see), but we would like to start with the most common transmission that folks would want to use in this swap and see how it goes.


The power of the 4.0T in the frame of the S4 should make for a missile of a car, and we're excited to see what it can do!

-Nick@034

[f1torrents]

I agree that you will be building a smaller S6... Why not just buy an S6?
Without the manual I don't see the appeal of this swap.

[englishbay]

Why not just buy an S6?

Interested to see the rational as well. I could see it being beneficial for people that need to replace their engines, and for tracking (maybe the S4 is lighter). It must be a significant investment for 034.

[Low Flyer]

I agree that you will be building a smaller S6... Why not just buy an S6?
Without the manual I don't see the appeal of this swap.

Because of the fact low 10s on a 1/4mi can be achieved without over taxing a 3.0T. Also there is great deal more of headroom for tuning/modding a 4.0T as even DS1 has shown.


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[hunter_killer]

I agree that you will be building a smaller S6... Why not just buy an S6?
Without the manual I don't see the appeal of this swap.

Because you can pick up a lot cheaper high mileage S4’s with a lighter chassis than you can most S6’s. Same as commented too; some people may just want to swap engines out because one has blown up or is bad. Plus some people have plenty of time and money invested in their S4 so why sell it to just start back at square one?


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[034Motorsport]

I agree that you will be building a smaller S6... Why not just buy an S6?
Without the manual I don't see the appeal of this swap.

Interested to see the rational as well. I could see it being beneficial for people that need to replace their engines, and for tracking (maybe the S4 is lighter). It must be a significant investment for 034.

An S4 with the 4.0T will be nearly 600lbs lighter than an S6, on a more nimble drivetrain. DSG will allow the car to reach deeper into the 1/4 mile, and perform better in high-speed racing events such as Pikes Peak.

Our good friend Jay Bullington is doing a manual swap 4.0T in his B8.5, and we feel our DSG swap will be a unique variation of this style of swap.

Ultimately the DSG will better suit the goals of this build down the line, especially when going beyond stock turbo sizing. As I said above in the thread, a manual swap certainly would be fun, but it does not suit the overall goals that we have for this project and the products that will come from it.


-Nick@034

[one_sk]

Do you guys just want to learn how to make the 4.0tt work with a DSG?

Actually doing this swap on a DSG is way easier than doing it properly on a manual. Ask me how I know ;)

[300zx2g35]

Any plans to support if people want to do the ZF8 trans i.e an entire RS7 motor/trans?

[Callandor]

How much hacking up of the engine bay and fabbing custom motor mounts is needed? Do you have to mess with the firewall?

[Allan691]

I agree that you will be building a smaller S6... Why not just buy an S6?
Without the manual I don't see the appeal of this swap.

Because an S6 is bigger. You kinda answer your own question. In cities (especially here in Europe) and on tracks and tight, twisty roads, bigger is rarely better.

I am excited to a) follow this, and b) hear that companies such as 034 are still “heavily invested” in the B8 and 3.0Tfsi ! Bravo 034!


Sent from Italy

2009 Eurospec B8 S4
APR Stage II

[01northernS4]

Because an S6 is bigger. You kinda answer your own question. In cities (especially here in Europe) and on tracks and tight, twisty roads, bigger is rarely better.

I am excited to a) follow this, and b) hear that companies such as 034 are still “heavily invested” in the B8 and 3.0Tfsi ! Bravo 034!


Sent from Italy

2009 Eurospec B8 S4
APR Stage II

+1

034 looks like a great company that keeps pushing the platform from all I read... keep up the good work fellas

[coop3422]

I agree that you will be building a smaller S6... Why not just buy an S6?
Without the manual I don't see the appeal of this swap.

The S6 is a big car, and while it carries its weight well, it does drive like one compared to an S4. I had a 2015 A6 3.0T for about a year and a half. Beautiful car, but I prefer smaller cars and manuals, so I sold it for a 2015 S4 6MT. I'm much happier, but I see why people would want the 4.0T in the B8/B8.5 chassis.

While I'd go manual personally, I get why DSG fits what you're after 034. Great to see you guys taking something like this on. I'm sure once complete, the community will be eagerly awaiting swap kits.

The ultimate build I want to see is a B8.5 Avant (lowered all road?) with a 6MT 4.0T. A lot of work, but damn would that be cool.

[RWD2quattro]

DRM TT4.0 for the win!! IMHO an MT will not handle this kind of TQ, DSG with a set of clutch packs .
Its going to rip the wheels off anything it races lol, tell Sonu when he's bored with it to call me, I'll buy it back .

By the way, wash that baby up its dirty lol.

[wrxkyle]

dang these motors are going for 10k. not a cheap swap, but if it can be made to be relatively bolt on it may be a good direction to go directly from stock. that plus probably needing uprated clutches, 20k swap all in? i guess there's some higher mile b8's going for 13k these day's so maybe that starts making sense.

[MrFunk]

I'd be interested if it was mated to a MT...

[one_sk]

dang these motors are going for 10k. not a cheap swap, but if it can be made to be relatively bolt on it may be a good direction to go directly from stock. that plus probably needing uprated clutches, 20k swap all in? i guess there's some higher mile b8's going for 13k these day's so maybe that starts making sense.

In Europe arithmetics on those make much more sense.

[fastboatster]

I'd be interested if it was mated to a MT...

I think Oleg (ukurish aka svarog_performance) and one_sk might hook you up later, I'm pretty sure they were developing their own kit well before this announcement. The problem with 6mt is that c7 r/s6(7) never came with a manual trans, of course you can fool the ecu to always think that the car is in neutral, but that's ugly and it might not work well if at all. I'm pretty sure (but don't know for sure, it is my guess which they can confirm or not) that Jay's car KNOWS which gear it's in and the ecu is not fooled into thinking it's just revving in neutral. Again, I'm guessing what they did to make 4.0TT run with 6mt, and you can just ask them yourself on IG.

[wangshuo1989]

Sweet, I might keep my S5 for this reason, and a hybrid as DD

[Ford Prefect]

Also curious why you're not going the 6mt route. Doesn't this car already have a built manual? Do you guys just want to learn how to make the 4.0tt work with a DSG?

I feel like without the manual trans it's kinda like a slightly smaller s6. If oleg started snapping gears on like 600lb ft I think the same thing will happen to you guys :/

Can you just imagine blipping the throttle on the down shift??


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[Izzyz28]

I would be very interested in an all-electric swap on one of these cars. I think there's at least one out there already. 500-600 horsepower and instant torque would be an absolute blast.

[RWD2quattro]

This thread should be moved to the "projects & builds" section.

[Low Flyer]

I would be very interested in an all-electric swap on one of these cars. I think there's at least one out there already. 500-600 horsepower and instant torque would be an absolute blast.

It's been done. See Polykup on IG. But, let's keep this a 4.0T related thread!


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[ModItNow]

Awesome news @034Motorsport When I hit 100-110k miles I'm going to consider pulling my motor for this swap! I have a manuel though so will be interesting to see how that plays out.

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[Ashtonts]

This thread should be moved to the "projects & builds" section.

Disagree since they’re a forum sponsor and are working on a line of products relating to this swap on this platform

[BIH2]

I look at it this way...

2013 S4 with 200 000km can get one for $10 000

Buy used S6/S7 engine for $6000 with 120 000km, do the full swap cost $4000

so for $20 000 I have a 2013 S4 with a S6 engine, a downpipe and a tune im doing 10.8 seconds on 93 pump fuel.

This is the future.

[Jay@JXB]

I look at it this way...

2013 S4 with 200 000km can get one for $10 000

Buy used S6/S7 engine for $6000 with 120 000km, do the full swap cost $4000

so for $20 000 I have a 2013 S4 with a S6 engine, a downpipe and a tune im doing 10.8 seconds on 93 pump fuel.

This is the future.

As someone personally doing this swap right now, those numbers are all very light, and that drag time would be impossible to hit on stock S6/7 turbos. You’re going to be looking at engine + intakes + downpipes + tuning/coding + subframe/engine mount brackets + tons of other miscellaneous odds and ends (cooling, wideband sensors, turbos, 2xHPFP upgrades, any accessories they didn’t include with the engine). I know I’m missing stuff. On the cheap end this is a 15k DIY swap with a higher mileage S6/7 engine. It’s easily 20k with labor or actual power adders.


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[BIH2]

As someone personally doing this swap right now, those numbers are all very light, and that drag time would be impossible to hit on stock S6/7 turbos. You’re going to be looking at engine + intakes + downpipes + tuning/coding + subframe/engine mount brackets + tons of other miscellaneous odds and ends (cooling, wideband sensors, turbos, 2xHPFP upgrades, any accessories they didn’t include with the engine). I know I’m missing stuff. On the cheap end this is a 15k DIY swap with a higher mileage S6/7 engine. It’s easily 20k with labor or actual power adders.


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S6 with downpipe,intake and tune does 11.4 quarter mile, I'm positive with a much lighter car you can hit the 10's

I found an S6 engine with 120 000km for $5800 + shipping.

I dont know where you guys come up with these crazy prices to be honest but maybe that's just me.

[one_sk]

S6 with downpipe,intake and tune does 11.4 quarter mile, I'm positive with a much lighter car you can hit the 10's

I found an S6 engine with 120 000km for $5800 + shipping.

I dont know where you guys come up with these crazy prices to be honest but maybe that's just me.

As someone who has successfully completed this swap, there is difference between window shopping for engines and actually procuring a healthy one. Okay let's say you _can_ get an S6 engine around six grand (which I personally doubt, it's hard to find alive engines at these prices even in Europe), you will require ECU & loom which easily add a grand on top combined, and most probably the exhaust would be separated and you'll have to purchase new widebands as jbullin2 have mentioned. Then you'll also require intercooler of some kind, an intake, a rare subframe worth half a grand on its own unless you invent another way, a few bits and pieces here and there, and we haven't considered labor yet. Throw in a DS1 at $1300 as well because it's just unwise not to. We are already above your estimate even not taking labor into account.

Trailblazing this cost me somewhere north of $15 grand (albeit with an RS engine), and I've done everything (wrenching, fabricating, coding) myself. So I think that would be a reasonable lower bound for the swap alone when done in your garage.