Unitronic Flex Fuel

[noseyp]

I picked up DS1 last month, running Unitronic previously. I needed the Flex fuel now. Loving it, but plan on getting a custom map or different OTS map if you are a drag racer. The DS1 OTS is more of an all purpose / road course map.

What is the issue with the OTS files for drag racing? Is it more than a couple tenths slower? I'm not looking to set records so curious if you think there is really a downside for casual trips to the drag strip.

[RSpeeds]

What is the issue with the OTS files for drag racing? Is it more than a couple tenths slower? I'm not looking to set records so curious if you think there is really a downside for casual trips to the drag strip.

I think he is implying that you wont be setting records. So far I have done 10.55@130 on the normal stage 2 file with Hoosier DR2's, I was still on the stock intercooler for that run. This week I did [email protected], basically 130, running E45 (75% power increase) on my street tires. I haven't gotten around to logging the stage 2x file and running that but I hope to in September. See that there have been many people hitting 135mph I can see how there is more left on the table. I assume the people hitting 138mph have some weight reduction.

[Makersmark]

I think he is implying that you wont be setting records. So far I have done 10.55@130 on the normal stage 2 file with Hoosier DR2's, I was still on the stock intercooler for that run. This week I did [email protected], basically 130, running E45 (75% power increase) on my street tires. I haven't gotten around to logging the stage 2x file and running that but I hope to in September. See that there have been many people hitting 135mph I can see how there is more left on the table. I assume the people hitting 138mph have some weight reduction.

That's quicker than I thought. I'm uni stage 1 ethanol. 10.8 at 129 on PS4. 10.5 is pretty damn impressive on a conservative base map.

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[tonkabob]

You can also get a faster OTS map for $200 from Mabotech and custom tunes are in the $400-750 range depending on the tuner. I'll do a DS1 OTS vs Mabo OTS test here shortly. Just posted on DS1 custom vs Unitronic.
DTS OTS is built for road course so compare it to Unis low boost file. Not the best for drag.

[Dubonfire]

You can also get a faster OTS map for $200 from Mabotech and custom tunes are in the $400-750 range depending on the tuner. I'll do a DS1 OTS vs Mabo OTS test here shortly. Just posted on DS1 custom vs Unitronic.
DTS OTS is built for road course so compare it to Unis low boost file. Not the best for drag.

Who cares honestly, .1 second on a stupid time slip or on a draggy. People and internet these day.

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[Makersmark]

Who cares honestly, .1 second on a stupid time slip or on a draggy. People and internet these day.

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Drag racers care. How are times stupid to people that race their car?

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[pulpoinspace]

I love drag racing.

but lets be honest amateur drag racing in an automatic car is a bit like paint by number. It's cool to show off mechanical skill if you built the car yourself.

[Makersmark]

I love drag racing.

but lets be honest amateur drag racing in an automatic car is a bit like paint by number. It's cool to show off mechanical skill if you built the car yourself.

There's obviously not the same about of skill required but it's still fun to chase numbers and want to go fast. Ask Ricky Bobby.

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[glacierttrs]

So whens it releasing

[Banny]

So whens it releasing

2 weeks

[8STTRS]

2 weeks

In one form or another, they've been working on this since 2018, it seems. If it gets released within the next two weeks after I just got their tune, I would be rather pleased. I'm not holding my breath, however.

[Banny]

In one form or another, they've been working on this since 2018, it seems. If it gets released within the next two weeks after I just got their tune, I would be rather pleased. I'm not holding my breath, however.

Its a joke, when no one knows how long it will be everyone jokingly says 2 weeks

[8STTRS]

Its a joke, when no one knows how long it will be everyone jokingly says 2 weeks

Ah. That's fair. I had called them yesterday and asked about a few things regarding their tune and products. I snuck that question in there and I got, "Sorry, no ETA on that at all."

[Jeff_Jeske]

The UNI pump gas tune is safe to run up to 25% Ethanol.
The UNI E85 tune is safe to run down to 60% Ethanol.

The performance envelope between 25 & 60 isn't even worth pursuing. I run 10.8 on 93 and 10.4 on E85 so I have no desire to seek middle ground. Plus I'm not sure I have any faith that tuners know how much timing to give a car at partial throttle on E45. I suspect part throttle performance will either feel like a turd or be pounding the bearings due to running beyond MBT. Combine that with the fact that many people are having issues with the ethanol content sensors I think that is a hard pass for me.

[Arelax]

The UNI pump gas tune is safe to run up to 25% Ethanol.
The UNI E85 tune is safe to run down to 60% Ethanol.

The performance envelope between 25 & 60 isn't even worth pursuing. I run 10.8 on 93 and 10.4 on E85 so I have no desire to seek middle ground. Plus I'm not sure I have any faith that tuners know how much timing to give a car at partial throttle on E45. I suspect part throttle performance will either feel like a turd or be pounding the bearings due to running beyond MBT. Combine that with the fact that many people are having issues with the ethanol content sensors I think that is a hard pass for me.

again, you miss the point. the advantage of flex fuel is not to run e25 - e60 mixes, its so that you dont have to change your tune when swapping between fuels. Not everyone has e85 at every corner.
and how many is 'many people' ?
Ive seen 1

[Jeff_Jeske]

Ok. Either way I don't think you will see it from UNI ever. The demand just doesn't seem to be there.

[John@DEADBEEF_DynoSp]

MBT moves by about -0.02 deg/% ethanol at part load.

[tegxsi]

^+1

From what I understand the difference in ign. timing in part/low load on ethanol vs gas is in the same ballpark so I never touch these values on other cars I've tuned.

Most of the benefits of ethanol can be had at E30~E40. I don't understand why people can't appreciate the beauty of blending ignition timing and boost/load based on ethanol content... I don't like re-flashing to switch fuels even though ds1 does it super fast without lugging a freaking laptop+internet connection.

If Uni can do flexfuel, great! IE has released fuel fuel on mk7 GTI Simos ECU...more power to them.
I'm sure Cobb could have done this long ago but they are playing by the rules now.

[Makersmark]

Ok. Either way I don't think you will see it from UNI ever. The demand just doesn't seem to be there.

Well they said they were releasing it soon a long time ago so it should be expected. And this entire thread supports the fact that there is a demand.

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[8STTRS]

FWIW, during that phone call with them, I asked about splashing a gallon or 1.5 gallons of C85 in to help with timing on a 93 tune and they heavily cautioned me against it, despite my seeing others chime in and saying that it's fine in small amounts like that. They told me to either run 93 on 93 only, or run full E. All of that just makes me want to fast track to my Stage 3 plans and run DS1.

[Jeff_Jeske]

This thread is a great example of why I'm a huge fan of only selling what is on the truck. I wouldn't even mention what is upcoming or in development.

I also wouldn't advise people to mix fuel simply because there are risks with doing that.

I'm sure there are some sales that can be captured by marketing products that aren't yet in production but it sure does create drama and even some negative impressions.

I hope that UNI delivers something to those in need shortly. In the mean time I will say that the tunes that are on the truck today are very good.

[John@Unitronic]

We've made a ton of progress internally on this project, which has admittedly seen its fair share of delays. We're very much still working forward on this project and are excited to pack it together with some other upcoming upgrades and improvements to further enhance the user experience and simplifying the flash-at-home process. I hope to be able to share more updates with everyone soon! Sorry for the delays; thanks for your patience and understanding!

If Uni can do flexfuel, great! IE has released fuel fuel on mk7 GTI Simos ECU...more power to them.
I'm sure Cobb could have done this long ago but they are playing by the rules now.

Yes, flex fuel support coming for this and other platforms!

[John@Unitronic]

FWIW, during that phone call with them, I asked about splashing a gallon or 1.5 gallons of C85 in to help with timing on a 93 tune and they heavily cautioned me against it, despite my seeing others chime in and saying that it's fine in small amounts like that. They told me to either run 93 on 93 only, or run full E. All of that just makes me want to fast track to my Stage 3 plans and run DS1.

I have a feeling their recommendations to you were more-so meant to avoid VP C85 to blend with the gasoline, rather than the ethanol blending itself. If you're set on using VP products, I'd suggest using VP X85.

[Auditude437]

I have a feeling their recommendations to you were more-so meant to avoid VP C85 to blend with the gasoline, rather than the ethanol blending itself. If you're set on using VP products, I'd suggest using VP X85.

Hi John,

So just wanted to confirm if e-blending is okay for stage 3 to achieve 93 octane. I'm in socal and we only have 91 here.

[RaudiRS3]

Hi John,

So just wanted to confirm if e-blending is okay for stage 3 to achieve 93 octane. I'm in socal and we only have 91 here.

If you're in socal you have e85 readily available, why not just use 100% e85 ? Greater benefit than trying to "blend" to try and achieve an octane comparable to that of a quality 93 octane fuel.

I never liked the idea of blending for tunes like E-30 and E-40 mixtures, too many variables even when using sensors and calculators. In my experience it's never consistent. Different stations have differing ethanol content in their 91 octane fuel, which you have to factor into the mixing process, and you need to know the ethanol content that's coming out of the pump for e85, then you need to know how much fuel is in your tank and what it's ethanol content is.

I'm sure most reputable tuners will give a cushion for e content above or below target but it just isn't consistent enough for me to trust.

Just use a 91 tune for daily and go straight e85 for competition. But who am I and what do I know, you may have a unique situation.

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[John@Unitronic]

Hi John,

So just wanted to confirm if e-blending is okay for stage 3 to achieve 93 octane. I'm in socal and we only have 91 here.

Yes, generally an E10-E30 blend can help you take advantage of the turbo upgrade, but there are other factors to consider. I suggest you shoot me an email with more details about which Stage 3 cal you're using together with more details about your setup, etc., please.

[8STTRS]

I have a feeling their recommendations to you were more-so meant to avoid VP C85 to blend with the gasoline, rather than the ethanol blending itself. If you're set on using VP products, I'd suggest using VP X85.

Is there a quality issue regarding the ethanol content comparatively with C85 vs X85? There's a rather notable price difference between the two and it seems that it's mostly in the type of chemicals used in the fuels.

Secondly, if you guys did finally release a solid flex fuel tune along with supporting items for it, then also finally addressed wastegate rattle and datalogging speeds, you guys would please a significant number of people.

[BDP]

We've made a ton of progress internally on this project, which has admittedly seen its fair share of delays. We're very much still working forward on this project and are excited to pack it together with some other upcoming upgrades and improvements to further enhance the user experience and simplifying the flash-at-home process. I hope to be able to share more updates with everyone soon! Sorry for the delays; thanks for your patience and understanding!



Yes, flex fuel support coming for this and other platforms!

John those screens look very Fuel It appesque. Which is great but will your solution only support your hardware? If I have the Fuel It set up now will it work with what you have in the works?

[myrder]

John those screens look very Fuel It appesque. Which is great but will your solution only support your hardware? If I have the Fuel It set up now will it work with what you have in the works?

very much fuel-it feels. So I see an e85 content reading app. Curious how its gonna get integrated....

[Auditude437]

Yes, generally an E10-E30 blend can help you take advantage of the turbo upgrade, but there are other factors to consider. I suggest you shoot me an email with more details about which Stage 3 cal you're using together with more details about your setup, etc., please.

Email sent...

[Auditude437]

If you're in socal you have e85 readily available, why not just use 100% e85 ? Greater benefit than trying to "blend" to try and achieve an octane comparable to that of a quality 93 octane fuel.

I never liked the idea of blending for tunes like E-30 and E-40 mixtures, too many variables even when using sensors and calculators. In my experience it's never consistent. Different stations have differing ethanol content in their 91 octane fuel, which you have to factor into the mixing process, and you need to know the ethanol content that's coming out of the pump for e85, then you need to know how much fuel is in your tank and what it's ethanol content is.

I'm sure most reputable tuners will give a cushion for e content above or below target but it just isn't consistent enough for me to trust.

Just use a 91 tune for daily and go straight e85 for competition. But who am I and what do I know, you may have a unique situation.

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I thought about that but I'm wondering if there are any cons to staying 100% e85. This is my semi-weekend car so I think I can accommodate but I'm wondering if there were any disadvantages to it. Will my fuel sensor/gas tank be affected overtime, etc.?

[John@Unitronic]

John those screens look very Fuel It appesque. Which is great but will your solution only support your hardware? If I have the Fuel It set up now will it work with what you have in the works?

very much fuel-it feels. So I see an e85 content reading app. Curious how its gonna get integrated....

We'll have plug-n-play integration over CAN for ethanol content for flex fuel ECU cals. If you have a sensor, it'll carry over for sure, if you feel inclined to bring your own sensor, but fuel-it doesn't interface over CAN afaik at the moment. Imagine being able to view ethanol content, fuel temp., control ECU mapping, collect, store, analyze data, and a bunch more from an iOS/Android device wirelessly!

[BoostingSnail]

^^^what a tease, lol

[8STTRS]

Indeed, a tease but, one that's a bit overdue. John, as much as no company wants to get into the game of projections and promises, do you suspect that we will see this come to fruition before the end of the year or is that a bit ambitious?

[BDP]

We'll have plug-n-play integration over CAN for ethanol content for flex fuel ECU cals. If you have a sensor, it'll carry over for sure, if you feel inclined to bring your own sensor, but fuel-it doesn't interface over CAN afaik at the moment. Imagine being able to view ethanol content, fuel temp., control ECU mapping, collect, store, analyze data, and a bunch more from an iOS/Android device wirelessly!

O.K. so the short answer is no...due to CAN integration. Looks like I'll be spending more money..lol.

Another question....With this flex option, will we expect to see more power when running higher ethanol content? Currently it seems like the sweet spot on the current E85 tune is E70....will this flex option increase the performance when running higher E content?

[tegxsi]

Most of the benefits of ethanol occur starting at E30-40.
Having more ethanol is good for cooling combustion.

[itr325]

^+1

From what I understand the difference in ign. timing in part/low load on ethanol vs gas is in the same ballpark so I never touch these values on other cars I've tuned.

Most of the benefits of ethanol can be had at E30~E40. I don't understand why people can't appreciate the beauty of blending ignition timing and boost/load based on ethanol content... I don't like re-flashing to switch fuels even though ds1 does it super fast without lugging a freaking laptop+internet connection.

If Uni can do flexfuel, great! IE has released fuel fuel on mk7 GTI Simos ECU...more power to them.
I'm sure Cobb could have done this long ago but they are playing by the rules now.

Maybe I missed something, but why can't Uni/DS1/IE have program switching like APR? Instead of having to re-flash, I just open the APR app and switch the tune, takes 5 seconds. Again, maybe I'm missing something.

[Effchuck]

Maybe I missed something, but why can't Uni/DS1/IE have program switching like APR? Instead of having to re-flash, I just open the APR app and switch the tune, takes 5 seconds. Again, maybe I'm missing something.

DS1 allows you to change maps on the fly using any number of inputs, with the default being the CC stalk.

[Effchuck]

We'll have plug-n-play integration over CAN for ethanol content for flex fuel ECU cals. If you have a sensor, it'll carry over for sure, if you feel inclined to bring your own sensor, but fuel-it doesn't interface over CAN afaik at the moment. Imagine being able to view ethanol content, fuel temp., control ECU mapping, collect, store, analyze data, and a bunch more from an iOS/Android device wirelessly!

Quite the sales pitch for DS1 right there.

[Banny]

The UNI pump gas tune is safe to run up to 25% Ethanol.
The UNI E85 tune is safe to run down to 60% Ethanol.

The performance envelope between 25 & 60 isn't even worth pursuing. I run 10.8 on 93 and 10.4 on E85 so I have no desire to seek middle ground. Plus I'm not sure I have any faith that tuners know how much timing to give a car at partial throttle on E45. I suspect part throttle performance will either feel like a turd or be pounding the bearings due to running beyond MBT. Combine that with the fact that many people are having issues with the ethanol content sensors I think that is a hard pass for me.

Why are you even on the DS1 group, when you're a uni diehard and will never switch genuine question?