Q5 plugin hybrid numbers vs EV? Real world numbers !

[superman_006]

I have been looking at several EVs. I'm not sure that I can grasp that the Audi's Q5 plug in hybrid would be actually worse when I am calculating the cost myself.

Numbers from AUDI
-----------------------------------------
Q5 2.0L = 24mpg
Q5 2.0Le (PHEV) = 26mpg (combined cycle) and 119MPGe (in local trips--- whatever that means)... This model weights 453 lbs more?

Battery size 14.1kWh (20 miles) ... equal to 0.833 gallons of gas.



My local numbers
--------------------------------------
Price per kWh in my state (15.2 cents).
Cost to fill battery up = $2.14
Cost of 1 gallon of gas (mid-grade)= $2.69
Cost of 0.8333 gallons of gas (14.1kWh equivalent)= $2.24
Cost per mile on battery = $0.112
Cost per mile on gas (q5)= $0.1121

No WAY is $0.001 savings for the first 20 miles for haul around 453 more pounds all the time is a good idea!! How can they advertise this as great MPG and this great green vehicle for $9,000 USD more????



The model X combined 105 MPGe..... Then numbers from Tesla
Battery= 100 kWh
Fill battery up cost $15.20 (worth 5.65 gallons of gas)
Battery range= 360 miles
Cost per mile $0.0422

Miles per gallon of gas equivalent.. 360 miles on 5.65 gallons = 63.7 MPGe



I also found that the EPA in the US has came up with the number 33.7kWh= 1 gallon of gas meaning just less than 8 cents per kWh which is 2 cents lower per kWh than anyone in the US.

Per the EPA's tesla MPG . Fill battery = $7.98 (worth 3.07 gallons)... 300 miles on that = 107 MPGe
Per the EPA's Audi 55e . Fill battery = $1.13 (worth 0.42 gallons).. 20 miles on that = 47 MPGe

How can Audi be that far behind tesla and WTF is wrong with the EPA's calculators????

[Clun9]

I have been looking at several EVs. I'm not sure that I can grasp that the Audi's Q5 plug in hybrid would be actually worse when I am calculating the cost myself.

Numbers from AUDI
-----------------------------------------
Q5 2.0L = 24mpg
Q5 2.0Le (PHEV) = 26mpg (combined cycle) and 119MPGe (in local trips--- whatever that means)... This model weights 453 lbs more?

Battery size 14.1kWh (20 miles) ... equal to 0.833 gallons of gas.



My local numbers
--------------------------------------
Price per kWh in my state (15.2 cents).
Cost to fill battery up = $2.14
Cost of 1 gallon of gas (mid-grade)= $2.69
Cost of 0.8333 gallons of gas (14.1kWh equivalent)= $2.24
Cost per mile on battery = $0.112
Cost per mile on gas (q5)= $0.1121

No WAY is $0.001 savings for the first 20 miles for haul around 453 more pounds all the time is a good idea!! How can they advertise this as great MPG and this great green vehicle for $9,000 USD more????



The model X combined 105 MPGe..... Then numbers from Tesla
Battery= 100 kWh
Fill battery up cost $15.20 (worth 5.65 gallons of gas)
Battery range= 360 miles
Cost per mile $0.0422

Miles per gallon of gas equivalent.. 360 miles on 5.65 gallons = 63.7 MPGe



I also found that the EPA in the US has came up with the number 33.7kWh= 1 gallon of gas meaning just less than 8 cents per kWh which is 2 cents lower per kWh than anyone in the US.

Per the EPA's tesla MPG . Fill battery = $7.98 (worth 3.07 gallons)... 300 miles on that = 107 MPGe
Per the EPA's Audi 55e . Fill battery = $1.13 (worth 0.42 gallons).. 20 miles on that = 47 MPGe

How can Audi be that far behind tesla and WTF is wrong with the EPA's calculators????

To be honest, a lot of the numbers from Tesla are also inflated. In a recent range test in real vs on paper, Tesla dropped a significant amount from real world vs on EPA. This is a quick look at a few examples: https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/ele...s-edmunds.html

The largest +/- was Porsche Taycan 4S with +59.3% and Tesla Model 3 Performance at -17.4%.

[superman_006]

I actually ran across that article a few days ago... I’m not sure how much to believe some of those articles. Sometimes they are straight up a purchased an ad. For example the number of the model X... on Tesla’s site is 300 and they said they drove until 10 miles was left. They posted 328 and made it 294 (with 10 miles left over = 304 for a min)

The column showing the kWh used per 100 miles is more interesting. I also ran across this car and driver article of the same Porsche EV that made it 188.6 miles from shutting off. Hard for me to believe they made is 323 (+10) with the same car. I think that the EPA ratings and test are supposed to be highly regulated and could have harsh fines / lawsuits.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not ready to go out and buy a spaceship looking SUV and give up the Q5 or trade the GT3 in for a EV Taygan 4S.... but even the Germans are behind Tesla when their largest SUV is more eff than a Porsche.

I think I pointed out the biggest issue with the EPA ... MPGe calculation. Looks like the US government is more than ok with putting a fictitious MPG equivalent which is based on a non-existing kWh cost in an attempt to push electric cars for being more cost effective.

Here is the car and driver article.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...-range-tested/

[Clun9]

I actually ran across that article a few days ago... I’m not sure how much to believe some of those articles. Sometimes they are straight up a purchased an ad. For example the number of the model X... on Tesla’s site is 300 and they said they drove until 10 miles was left. They posted 328 and made it 294 (with 10 miles left over = 304 for a min)

The column showing the kWh used per 100 miles is more interesting. I also ran across this car and driver article of the same Porsche EV that made it 188.6 miles from shutting off. Hard for me to believe they made is 323 (+10) with the same car. I think that the EPA ratings and test are supposed to be highly regulated and could have harsh fines / lawsuits.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not ready to go out and buy a spaceship looking SUV and give up the Q5 or trade the GT3 in for a EV Taygan 4S.... but even the Germans are behind Tesla when their largest SUV is more eff than a Porsche.

I think I pointed out the biggest issue with the EPA ... MPGe calculation. Looks like the US government is more than ok with putting a fictitious MPG equivalent which is based on a non-existing kWh cost in an attempt to push electric cars for being more cost effective.

Here is the car and driver article.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...-range-tested/

I think it also comes to how long Tesla has been doing it versus some of the other companies. For VAG to be really focusing on EVs only after the whole dieselgate thing is impressive. Give them a few more years and I think they will be comparable especially how they are committed to full EV even for motorsports.

[superman_006]

So the EPA bases the MPGe on the BTUs ... 1 gallon of gas produces 115,000 btu of heat. It takes 33.7 kWh of electric to produce the same amount of heat . The MPGe is the energy equivalent and not the kWh/gas cost equivalent.

However they are letting manufactures add the 2 numbers together for the hybrids. For instance the Audi Q5 PHEV says it’s gets 109 MPG (combined) for a 62.13 mile trip (100km). But they are adding oranges and apples like they are the same. In reality in this setup currently in my area, I would paying around $8 in gas or $2.24 in electric and $5.76 in gas.... obviously hearing triple digit mpg sound so much better.